LED growing- An instructional grow log

[SnSstealth]

trying this again. growing jack herer x bubbleberry in pure LED. these plants wont see any white light from seed to bud. tried posting pics once...so here we go again. questions or comments gladly answered. Dont think its been done quite like this before. ;) wish me luck!
whiskeytango
SnSstealth

[beginerbuddah]

o i see them now :thumbsup:
nice man cnt wait to see the plants get big :jointsmile:
im tagging along on this one :thumbsup:

[valtrip]

your setup looks really cool:thumbsup: What are the specs on those lights?

[SnSstealth]

they are procyon 100's. just came out. exspensive as hell, but they supposedly equal a 600 HPS...time will tell!!!!!

ill keep ya posted buddah

[SantaClawz]

Wow 600 a peice?! You must have some money to burn, they do look ultra bright, but only time will tell. I will definately keep and eye on this one, for once a definative LED grow. Dont let us down!
BTW explain alittle about those ozone fans, never seen those before.

[SnSstealth]

they are an expensive investment, but my entire grow pulls onlt 425W....also 8 hours into their cycle, temp only went up 3 degrees with these lights...steady temp is 72 and humidity is 47

[Opie Yutts]

I'm not sure which one of the 4 threads you started I should be posting in, so I'll take a stab at this one. I am really glad you are doing an all LED grow, and I am very much looking forward to seeing the results. I hope you don't give up and go for yield and decide to add some more lights once you see they are not doing so great in flowering. I have yet to see an all LED grow that produces much of anything. I hope you can be the first to show me one.

SantaClawz, ozone generators are supposed to help reduce odor.

Good luck.

[SnSstealth]

thanks opie, i guess we will see. we have done quite the extensive research ob this subject, and the procyon supposedly took care of the stretching issue. they changed to release date twice, which tells me they wanted to make sure they got it. ryan from HGL was VERY helpful with all our questions before the lights release. we put ALOT into this, so i sure as hell hope it goes good...lol will have more pics up sun.

whiskeytango
SnSstealth
sorry about the many posts...lol, just gettin the hang of the site...lol

[SnSstealth]

the ozone generator has a UV light that emits negative ions. the negative ions or O3, ozone, is then blown about the room through the fan. the negative ions attach to scent particles and basically cancels them out. smell away......yay

just make sure you dont look at the light or leave it on too long. too much ozone can make you sick, its really irritating to your eyes and lungs

[SnSstealth]

sorry guys...lol...lil baked. just take the words "negative ions" out of the last post...all 3 of em, i was explaining the ozone generator, and started adding an ionizer to the mix....

[Weedhound]

Well I don't have a single clue about LED lighting so could you give us a brief overview? And are you seriously saying you've spen $1800 for these lights? WOW!

[SnSstealth]

Hey Weedhound,

The basic theory is that plants, marijuana in particular, use certain wavelengths(mainly blues & reds) of light to perform photosynthesis much more than others(greens and yellows). Typical hid lights seem to have lots of yellows and greens and levels down at the ends of the spectrum where the blues and reds are. I realize all bulbs are different so some will have more than others. So led growing is really trying to get the same yields/growth from nominal hids in order to drop many risk and cost factors (much less power, almost no heat). again thats what we believe is the basics...while blazed.

Here's a much more scientific explanation.
http://growled.se/docs/Growled_brochure_oct.pdf
Don't worry about the ad read from page 3 on. But the lights in the procyon are far more developed than in this brochure.

Yes we spent $1800, but IF they work for half of their projected lifespan the costs of bulb & ballast replacement, power for lights and cooling in hid will be far more economical. And it is really for research purposes, if people do the same thing over and over then the field as a whole stops evolving.

Thanks for your interest,
Doughboy
SnSstealth

[Balkey]

I'm tuning in!!! Looking forward to seeing something spectacular!!! Well, HOPEFULLY!!

[JohnnyRico]

This is very interesting. I'll be watching this one closely. I really hope you succeed. Good luck!

[Pepper]

Procyon-100 100W LED Grow Light - HomeGrownLights.com (http://homegrownlights.com/100W.html)

I like these lights. Their website claims they're equivalent to a 400w HID and only use 125 watts. Seems like a bargain to me if they work as well as they claim.

[midlifecrisis]

Very interesting, I'll be keeping tabs on the progress. If it works well I just might have to buy a new toy......

[hybridlove420]

strangely, the led ufo uses 90w, claims to also be equal to 400w hps, and got glowing reveiws in high times. hope this can match it.

yes, leds will pay off within 1-2 years of use. just saving 300w each for 12 hours a day is like 200-400$ a year savings

[Weedhound]

Well I read up on the link.....I'll keep an eye on this log as well and see what those lights do for you. :)

[420F4i]

seems like a real good idea

[Opie Yutts]

seems like a real good idea

It is, and it has been a good idea for several years. The problem in the past has been that LED lighting cannot come close to producing the same buds that an HPS can, using somewhere close to the same wattage. On the upside, they consume very little power and put off very little heat compared to HPS. Therefore despite the high initial cost, they would pay for themselves within a few years if they produced similar results. At this point the only way to produce similar results is to basically wrap a plant completely in high power LED arrays, which I'm guesstimating would cost around $4,000 to $6,000 for an average size flowering plant. Nobody has been willing to shell out this kind of money so far, so we have not seen any worthwhile buds so far.

Attention: This is changing monthly and soon many people will be tossing their high power, high heat lights in exchange for LED lighting. Within a few years LED lighting will be the norm for everything. Not incandescent, fluorescent, HID, or Xenon, or whatever that new one is. Just look at how LEDs are taking over flashlights and vehicle lighting.

Did you know that many branches of government have "seen the light" and are changing as much lighting as possible to LED? Even now common lighting is less expensive in the long run using LEDs. There are many cities across the U.S. that have mandated that all sign lighting be lighted solely with LED lighting.

Soon it will happen for grow lighting as well. I'm not talking about regular growing either, because LED's do just fine at making plants grow. I'm talking about the bloom cycle, and grow lighting that produces big beautiful, dank, dense buds. I'm hoping SnSstealth can be the first to make it happen. So there.

[Weedhound]

I'm in.....but it's not my $1800.....just my nose.....:D

[Pasofol]

Keep this up to date. I can probably design and make these for a fraction of the price. The LEDs are dirt cheap usually and PCB are cheap if bought in high quantity.

Having one panel with 1000 LEDs should be better aswell.

There's nothing complicated about them. Getting a case produced for it to make it look nice so on could be the highest price associated.

[Opie Yutts]

I was thinking about making my own arrays as well. I'm trying to figure out some way to kind of encase a MJ plant in LED's. Maybe some modular hexagon shape boards that you can just add to in series as the plant grows.

[SnSstealth]

try to respond to a few here...the LEDs in the procyon are CREE XLAMPS... not cheap at all...and they are tuned frequency wise...HGL tried MANY combinations of blues and reds to get it down. I read the UFO article, but the comparisons ive see of the 2 say the procyon blows the UFo away, their 600w comparison may be off, because they claim it covers a 10 x 10 area, which is more like 1kw, and they only have 54 LEDS...so 1000 would be insane!...lol and weedhound, gimme some positive juju man!!!..LOL, just bullshitting, i can tell you have done your homework too, i was not a believer in the current LEDs till i talked to RYAn over at HGL...i hope this works too man, cause this could, no will, revolutionize growing for all of us, and im very glad to be part of it. succeed or fail...we are taking one for the team...lol, and soil, hydro, HID, or LED any help from you guys i can use to apply. the LEDs are causing slower water uptake due to nice low heat...keep up the comments, questions and suggestions guys....
posts may be by myself, whiskeytango, or doughboy, my partner in this adventure

peace and pot,
:stoned:
whiskeytango
SnSstealth





Procyon-100 100W LED Grow Light - HomeGrownLights.com

[Pasofol]

You are right that they may not be that cheap, since hitting the right wavelength is the issue with standard LEDs/plus lumens.

I take it this is the product Procyon 100 [Procyon 100] - $600.00 : Buy LED Grow Lights, Procyon 100 (http://www.indooragriculture.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1&zenid=9etnkd8e0sancueto3eq7kh011)

It seems to use smt leds it seems.
56 CREE* Xlamp high power LEDs (40 635nm, 16 470nm)

I'll try to resource this a bit more.

Cree reports lab development of 86-lumen LEDs - compoundsemiconductor.net (http://compoundsemiconductor.net/cws/article/news/23081)
Two years old news report.
"indicates that the LED industry is at least two years closer than previously predicted to achieving the "holy grail" of 150 lumens per watt." If that's true that's pretty much as good as HPS of course wavelengths will become an important factor, but hopefully its not too far into the future.

If you guys dont want me spamming LED info just let me know. :jointsmile:

[420F4i]

I was thinking about making my own arrays as well. I'm trying to figure out some way to kind of encase a MJ plant in LED's. Maybe some modular hexagon shape boards that you can just add to in series as the plant grows.

LEDs generally have a more focused beam than regular lights. I would think that would allow you to have them farther from the plants. That could be good because then you could fit more of them, a lot more of them. Im envisioning a small circular room where the walls emit light from every point.

[Opie Yutts]

Actually, you want them close to the plants, since the amount of light greatly decreases as you move them back, even more than other lights. As far as a more focused beam, you can find LED's in 15 to 180 degree beams. Maybe even more by now I don't know. Some are more focused, some aren't. You are going to need to encase a plant in LED arrays to get any kind of decent yield. I'm thinking close and wide beams, not far and narrow beams.

[hybridlove420]

Actually, you want them close to the plants, since the amount of light greatly decreases as you move them back

hes right. if the lights are 2X further away, 1/4 the light reaches/hits the plant (Inverse square law)

[SnSstealth]

on the tomato experiment with the procyon on greenpinelane, sfortier kept his around 24 in from the tops, im at about 20, dont seem to be stretching bad....will have new pics up sun...gonna do pics once a week till i have enough posts on here...lol..i can take pics if anyone wants something specific....pic of the LED array or whatever...thanks for stopping in guys...

whiskeytango
SnSstealth

[DoDoFoShoDoe]

Paving the way for new indoor grows all around the world! Good luck stealth ill be watching close:thumbsup:

[Opie Yutts]

Me too. I hope you do good. I would love to switch to an all LED grow.

[SnSstealth]

alright guys....these pics are one week old sprouts. lookin good so far, had a few stretching a little bit, but just moved some pots around and they are fine.....

whiskeytango
SnSstealth

djinn665 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://s119.photobucket.com/albums/o133/djinn665/)

[SnSstealth]

yay....looks like i have graduated to not using photobucket.....lol...babies lookin good so far, had lil stretch scare on a few, but just moved plats around and they are fine.last night i started adding fox farm big bloom.

[DoDoFoShoDoe]

Excuse me if this has been answered, but where exactly are these plants being grown? in a custom made box? do these LEDs cover up to a 10 x 10 area each?

[50ul }{4ck3r]

well any pic without the led's on...crappy pix...

[SnSstealth]

the plants are in a 2x8x10 closet. lined it in mylar. yea, HGL says each light covers 10x10, but we are using 3 of them. and sorry about the pics, but im trying to preserve the integrity of a pure LED grow. dont want them to touch white light. ill try differant light settings on the camera. its a 8.1megapixel cybershot. any ideas on getting a better pic let me know. And to weedhound, cmasfca, opie and rock, my bad about the forum ettiquite, ill get it down. thanks for the interest in the grow guys, ill keep updates current. if anyone wants to know red/blue ratios, or Nm, layouts, whatever, ill let ya know. $600 is hella lot for a light, so hopefully i can answer any questions before someone wants to get one.

whiskeytango
SnSstealth

[Balkey]

I'm guessing you'll be able to at least see whats in the pics once the plants get bigger. Those babies are still, well, babies and are tiny. Hope to see this entire log, all the way to the END. Keep us posted !!!! :stoned::stoned::stoned:

[sublime27]

looks good stealth, ill be watching as i too am very interested in the led growing lights. Do they each have their own reflector?:jointsmile:

[Rock.Steady]

,,,, And to weedhound, cmasfca, opie and rock, my bad about the forum ettiquite, ill get it down. thanks for the interest in the grow guys, ill keep updates current. ,,,,
SnSstealth

no worries dude, 'learning curve', i'll give ya a pass ;)

and I'll shuffle ur Q over here, and answer it. :cool:


so mine are still one their first sets of leaves. when should i start training them through wire? 5-6 internodes? should i top them more before or let them go single. if you wouldnt mind, take a look at my set up and give me some suggestions. i think the scrog will exceptionally help me since im doing the LEDs. would focus light better. thanks man

whiskeytango:jointsmile:

how would i mount the fencing? lke a table maybe with four legs?
when to train? basically, when tall enough. prolly 4-8 nodes, depending on growth.
should u top? thats a personal call, it will theoretically add 2 weeks to ur cycle, 1 week repair, i week recovery to point u were at b4 the cut. thats not nesesarily a bad thing, just a thing to consider.
also, its a question of strain, grow characteristics, and ur space.
i would say if ur gonna go LST or Scrog, u would want to top once or twice, but, im no expert. Topping will help them stay lower and bushier.

I've reviewed ur setup and log and am confused.
These r babies dude, why r u using bloom nutes?
again, i'm no expert, BUT u need veg nutes first.
I'm not familiar with this strain, and certainly no idea how these funky lites will effect your grow, but, i would think u need about 5-7 weeks dedicated to the veg cycle b4 u start pushing them to bloom.


and to be candid, these pix suck man,,,,welll,,,,unless i was trippin.
dont be so crazy bout "no white lite".
get us some decent pics so we can see whats goin on.
There was better lighting in the pix from the Mars lander:wtf:
a 2 minute change in lighting (especially this early in veg stage) is no big deal, really;)


as to how to assemble the scrog, I am a total novice and only experimenting myself.
if u have the area to install it semi permanent, i would do it something like Opie or MVP are doing it.
but, here's another consideration to keep in mind.
these LEDs ur pimpin are a serious wild-card in my book. u may be one of the first to try it. i havent seen em. (personally, considering cost, i woulda 'passed' and spent that kinda coin on something proven, but thats just me)
Now, considering the LEDs r an unknown factor, I would do a couple la-naturale, and a couple LST. Why LST? IMHO thats a bit easier to manage and shuffle the pots in ur type of a setup. Again, thats just my opinion, i got a belly button too;)

either way, those babies need WEEKS of growth b4 u think about doin anything like manipulating their growth.

ok, that should give ya somethin to gnaw on for a while:D


btw- i aint hatin on ya n ur lites. sometimes its just easier to say it straight, rather than sugar-coating my thoughts.;)
long as u aint wearin a man-skirt, we should be cool:thumbsup:

keep goin n keep us updated.:D

[Weedhound]

I've never seen a pink grow before.....

[cmasfca]

I've never seen a pink grow before.....

Red + Blue = Purple silly!

Keep us updated Stealth, I'm interested in this :thumbsup:

[Blumen]

You might be able to set the whitebalance in your cam. You have to use a white sheet of paper (or better slightly grey, but white will do) and take a reference picture for the camera of it under the pink light. The camera alters the colors accordingly, but the plants would still look dark, since there is no green in the spectrum :D

[SnSstealth]

good idea rock,ill take a few babies out for pics.., as far as the nutes go...i got the 6 nute set from fox farm, using their soil too. they call for nutes at week one. its not for flowering, you got me as to why the call it big bloom, lol, but its for veg. tiger bloom is for starting flowering. just following their feeding chart man.lol. i have a buddy who used their line and had amazing results. and no man skirt here, lol...i wouldnt be on this site if i knew everything and had a sandy vagina....heh...im just trying to be the guy to let everyone know if these LEDs will change our growing habits. initial investment was kinda harsh, but will pay for itself after a harvest or two...the entire room only raised 3 degrees! and the room only pulls 450w..lights fans ozone and all. so either im out a BIT of money, or we will see a revolutionary grow...one of the two...lol
so i guess the grow intgrity will be fine for 2 min a week to pull one out for pics, or i may put a few regular bulbs in the room for photo sake. just turn em on for that. ill take some more pics when the lights come on and post em. heres a link for those nutes rock
http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/soilfeed.pdf

thanks for the help and comments guys,
and gal, (weedhound)
whiskeytango

[Rock.Steady]

ok, reason i assumed those are 'bloom' nutes?
i also use FoxFarms.
"Grow Big" in veg stage
"Big Bloom" in flwr. stage
so, the wording had me baffled. if its designed for veg, have at it.

as to your lighting and pix, a suggestion,,,
just a suggestion....

get 1x 26/100W (blue/daylighter) CFL, mount it in your grow area.
when u want to take pix, switch cfl ON, the LEDs OFF.
take your pix and reverse ur lighting back.

it'll get to be a PITA to be shufflin pots in n out just for pix.
plus, less chance of stressin em, if u move them less.
During the veg stage especially, they can definately take a decent level of abuse, but once u go to flwr, handle with care.:thumbsup:

[Rock.Steady]

hey man, i looked at that chart, same one i lost months ago.

here's my thinkin, FWIW

gotta go by the Nute levels. N-P-K

Grow Big (says right on bottle "for lush vegetative growth") and is 6-4-4 (strong N for veg)

Big Bloom is 0.01-0.3-0.7 and u do use more of this per dose than the Grow Big. (nearly no N)

thats my story and im stickin to it.:D

[Opie Yutts]

SnS, many people think it's wise to use a little bloom nutes during seedling growth. I do just fine without it at this point, but I'm using a 1 part granular mix that's supposed to have everything needed. I add some stuff though, CalMag and SuperThrive mainly, but they don't want hardly anything in their first 2 weeks except a little B1 of your choice.

A couple photo hints. Take your camera off Automatic mode and put it on Program. You should be able to force flash, providing you've popped up the flash thing. No matter what light is on it will make the plants green, mostly. Also you could take photos when the lights go out without a problem, and use a fluoro for lighting, or flash or both. Regardless of what people tell you, this will not make your plants turn hermie. Especially if you do it right after or before the lights are on. The plants are not so chronographically inclined that they would know the difference between 12 hours or 12 hours and 5 minutes of light. I've worked in my closet for hours at a time after lights out. Many times. No problems yet. It's good to see the purple LED color or actual color of any lighting system, but you ought to put in at least a couple photos of what the plants actually look like. It's kinda hard to tell when they are purple all over. If you do so, we still will consider it an all LED grow. Flash from photos does not count.

I am interested in what and how many nm the LEDs are in your lights. I would be surprised if there is more than 1 blue and 1 red, and I think LED lighting needs more than two if it's going to be as efficient as possible.

[SnSstealth]

ill try the flash here in a few min and see if that works. i just didnt wanna hear anyone say it wasnt a true LED grow. and i thought i was following the chart, big bloom week 1, 2tbl per gal. just started the grow big last night.gimme a few min, and ill be back to post those pics

opie, ill have those specs for ya in the next post with the pics

[Opie Yutts]

Cool, and I would just keep following the chart. I think that should do wonderfully. I've always wanted to stick to the Fox Farm chart but I just didn't want to spend all that money. I think if you are successful I may try it, since I pretty much have all their stuff now, at least for hydro.

[SnSstealth]

yeah man, my other grows worked GREAT following their schedule, and since i spent DOUGH on this grow....lol...it better work, i got all six soil nutes from fox farm, 7 bags of fox farm ocean forrest, and the beige pots i am testing roots organic soil. i figure if im gonna go out on a limb and do a grow like this, might as well go all out. didnt hurt that previous harvests paid for this set up....lol
ok one pic is out of the room
others with flash, ill try the construction paper behind them next. them if that doesnt work, we'll just put an incandescent blyb in there somewhere....do these look on time? they sprouted 7 days ago...stretching a lil?...first set of 5 leaves are starting out

thanks guys
whiskeytango

[SnSstealth]

tried to edit to late i guess

oh and opie, 56 CREE* Xlamp high power LEDs 40 red 635nm, 16 blue 470nm, and im getting 4-5k lumens at eh base of all the pots. i know the lumen output is not rated the same as hid. more on that later

[MVP]

Ahhhh, pics are now within the thread... much better amigo! So are you gonna try the Liquid Light with the LEDs? That would be a LLLED thread? (Not to be confused with Opie's LSTTT thread...)

I'll be lurkin' here and chime in if I have anything useful to contribute...

MVP :jointsmile:

[SnSstealth]

ill keep it in this thread when i try the LL. might wait to see how they are reacting with just the LEDs and nutes

[DoDoFoShoDoe]

Keep up the good work stealth.:thumbsup:

[SnSstealth]

thanks dodo....lowered the lights about 6 in today. babies looked stretchy. first set of 5 leaflets comin out....yay...very close spacing though...dont know if its the light or strain yet, but the leaves are almost flat on each other. VERY lil space....could be a good thing :thumbsup:

whiskeytango
SnSstealth

[Weedhound]

Ahhhh, pics are now within the thread... much better amigo! So are you gonna try the Liquid Light with the LEDs? That would be a LLLED thread? (Not to be confused with Opie's LSTTT thread...)

I'll be lurkin' here and chime in if I have anything useful to contribute...

MVP :jointsmile:


lol....LLLED thread...:D

[Opie Yutts]

Well the flash helped a little I guess. Anyway they look about right to me for that age.

[Pepper]

....lowered the lights about 6 in today.

That's what I would have done. You can get 400w hid's a ft away if you control the heat. Because you reduced the distance about 30% you probably doubled the light intensity on the tops. Any closer and you'd probably start losing intensity at the corners. Thanks for sharing your grow experience.:thumbsup:

[SnSstealth]

ty pepper....i used an off white piece of foam to gauge how close i could get without the light seperating. 12in was about it. so i went from 24 to like 14. seem to be growing good, ill take a few more out of there for pics this sun. i dont know if its my eyes after being in there, but they look almost flourecent when taken out. definitely differant appearance than HIDs. but like i said, your eyes are fucked when you leave the room, everything has a green glow, like a green flashlight in a dark room. green haze....ironic?....lol

[cmasfca]

ty pepper....i used an off white piece of foam to gauge how close i could get without the light seperating. 12in was about it. so i went from 24 to like 14. seem to be growing good, ill take a few more out of there for pics this sun. i dont know if its my eyes after being in there, but they look almost flourecent when taken out. definitely differant appearance than HIDs. but like i said, your eyes are fucked when you leave the room, everything has a green glow, like a green flashlight in a dark room. green haze....ironic?....lol

Someone's been smoking in the grow room ;)

[cture]

Hi SnStealth. As far as I understood you are growing with two procyon 100w kit.
How many plants are under procyons, how old are they? Show some up to date photos and prepare to listen to the rasta critics :rasta:

[SnSstealth]

Hey cture,

We're using 3 Procyon 100's 2'x8' mylar sealed room. There are six 3 gallon pots below each light, 23 total plants (15 in pots 0n the 22nd, other 6 on the 25th) some of which are double potted. Photos on post 50 are from Sunday, I think once a week quite enough at this stage at least. using all Fox farm soils & nutes, plants are a little off due to never using a "rapid rooter" panel before so they went to pots a little early. Otherwise they're running strong. from what I've seen from yesterdays feeding Sundays pics should be nice!!!

Hope that helps in your attacks...lol
Doughboy

[cture]

Glad to hear you man. Honestly speaking with this light you will be able to bring up 6 plants, even then you will yield no more ythan 50-100 grams . What we could do about it?
I heard you are goin to build your own ficture so it could be a great supplemental light to your procyons(imho they a are lols) you need to add up 420nm and 700nm diodes for the first period of time! Adding 420nm diode you will decrease internodal stretch, adding 700nm diode will create an Emmerson effect with 640s from proc. PM me

[SnSstealth]

Thanks for the input but both for financial and for experimental reasons this grow will have only the three Procyons (not sure if we posted about addl. lights but i could be wrong, there are two of us here).

As far as inter nodal stretching is concerned, with 5-leafs sprouting average is about 1/8" to 3/16" between lower branches. And the testing that we've seen with THIS LIGHT do not seem to have any problem with that. this grow had some over watering/no instructions issues as stated w/ the rapid rooter that caused the cotyledons to stretch because they were planted early(I know I know dixie cups from now on).

we'll all find out in a short 3 months :wtf:

Doughboy

[SnSstealth]

yeah, ive been growing for several years soil indoors, first LED but im very optimistic...think we'll be happy.....and someone has to do this for us all right?.....we've done our research as well, and it would be awesome to have awee bit more positive feedback cture. i havent found that this has been done yet to this extent, so know one really knows how this will turn out. but thanks for your imut man:thumbsup: and yes cma...i always smoke in the grow room:smokin: share the vibe with the babies

whiskeytango

[denial102]

try to respond to a few here...the LEDs in the procyon are CREE XLAMPS... not cheap at all...and they are tuned frequency wise...HGL tried MANY combinations of blues and reds to get it down. I read the UFO article, but the comparisons ive see of the 2 say the procyon blows the UFo away, their 600w comparison may be off, because they claim it covers a 10 x 10 area, which is more like 1kw, and they only have 54 LEDS...so 1000 would be insane!...lol and weedhound, gimme some positive juju man!!!..LOL, just bullshitting, i can tell you have done your homework too, i was not a believer in the current LEDs till i talked to RYAn over at HGL...i hope this works too man, cause this could, no will, revolutionize growing for all of us, and im very glad to be part of it. succeed or fail...we are taking one for the team...lol, and soil, hydro, HID, or LED any help from you guys i can use to apply. the LEDs are causing slower water uptake due to nice low heat...keep up the comments, questions and suggestions guys....
posts may be by myself, whiskeytango, or doughboy, my partner in this adventure

peace and pot,
:stoned:
whiskeytango
SnSstealth





Procyon-100 100W LED Grow Light - HomeGrownLights.com

yeah.. in the case of LED grows it's going to be quality over quantity or i'd feel like I was wasting the money for no reason :)



yeah, ive been growing for several years soil indoors, first LED but im very optimistic...think we'll be happy.....and someone has to do this for us all right?

Thanks man, Love you! It's about time someone has a definitive example with a definitive answer!

[Weedhound]

Well I have to say that it would REALLY help if you had photos that weren't pink so people could get a nice idea of the plants and see if there really is a difference in growth for one thing. It's hard to be supportive without really being able to see whats going on for themselves and see that there really is some sort of improved growth or not.

You also have to realize that while you may think it's a terrific idea to spend $1800 on lighting not EVERYONE is going to feel that way or be that excited about it for one simple reason. Most people can't afford that kind of money in one go and so won't be investing in that lighting anytime soon so don't really need minute (and pink) information on it (past hearing the price) unless these lights create solid gold buds or something.

Finally.....realize that not everyone grows or WANTS to grow the same way.....or even just one way. I personally don't like plants with really short internodes....its a darn hassle to get light to them evenly and I like big yields.

Stealth...you DO realize that you will NOT be recognized for your achievements until after you are dead. This is the price of genius....and I speak from personal experience. :D

[cture]

yeah, ive been growing for several years soil indoors, first LED but im very optimistic...think we'll be happy.....and someone has to do this for us all right?.....we've done our research as well, and it would be awesome to have awee bit more positive feedback cture. i havent found that this has been done yet to this extent, so know one really knows how this will turn out. but thanks for your imut man:thumbsup: and yes cma...i always smoke in the grow room:smokin: share the vibe with the babies
whiskeytango

I have 8 x 110 watts LED fictures 460nm and 620nm. 2x400HPS boulbs give better results then these 8. The main problem is SPECTRUM! I still INSIST on adding 420nm and 700nm LEDS withot these light waves you will receive result which isn't worth a 3 month time. I M H O

[midlifecrisis]

Keep the updates coming, the more pics the better.

I am curious about these LED's and don't expect mutant plants that yeild huge amounts, if I can get the same results that I currently do, it would be worth it for me.

Besides it just looks cool......:thumbsup:

[SnSstealth]

Weedhound we'll get pics up soon they went to pots early and didnt think you could evaluate with just the cotyledons and the one leaf. They look much better now. Soon:D

Yes, we've givin alot of info. but i believe most of it was asked for. Long nodes are great for some strains and methods. I was responding to cture statement of "Adding 420nm diode you will decrease inter nodal stretch" and that we weren't seeing it.

If were overexcited than than thats just a product of being positive towards the grow. I dont know if anyone will ever do this however is it such a stretch that a grower using previous harvest monies to spend 600 dollars on one to try on different mediums. They did sell 17 others, so we may not be the only ones;).

sorry WH, get this one out of the way now:

Cture,

Again we appreciate your concerns and in the future will add or decrease other lighting, but WE DO NOT have money to spend on,nor giving out loc to receive in here, more lighting this go around. If its not worth it to you thats fine. This is an experiment, not a super grow house. And in talks with the builder there is a bit of fluctuation in nm in these lights. We are not scientists, please see greenpinelane dont mention MJ and they will discuss at length any of your concerns.

[SnSstealth]

Thanks midlife. I guess we"ll start doing 2 pic sets a week to calm the salivation...lol. Will TRY to get that done today.

Our expectations are to nurture for a few months and smoke whatever comes off, thats it. No visions of grandeur( though WH may disagree:D)

Doughboy
SnSstealth

[Rock.Steady]

..you DO realize that you will NOT be recognized for your achievements until after you are dead. This is the price of genius....and I speak from personal experience. :D

WH, does this statement mean that not only are u posting from the darkside, but also from the "other" side?????:wtf::wtf::wtf:

[sublime27]

Im backing you on this one stealth, I think they look great and i hope they are the biggest stinkiest buds around!! Keep it up:jointsmile:

[SnSstealth]

i guess thats why they call them experiments...lots of people out there with questions pertaining to these LEDs. So someone has to get em, and grow with them right?...so we will all know? how can you tell me they wont work, when they havent been used yet. are your 8 110w LEDs class 2?
well heres some pics. like doughboy said i havent been posting the pics up more than once a week cause we had to pot the seedlings in the pots early. so all there were where the cotyldons. gots some for ya though.....and they arent all PINK!!!!.....lol thanks for the chiming in yall. and again cture......we will see....

whiskeytango

got the pic lighting thing WH, and im not looking to be the next jack herer, jorge cerventes, or ed rosenthal, who are all still alive, just trying to help answer everyone out theres one big question. Can LEDs grow comparatively? Thats all we are trying to figure out. No one else is doing anything to answer this for us, so we'll do it.:thumbsup:

[basementbotany]

i'm on board, they're not lookin' too bad to me.

[Weedhound]

Yes, Ive been dead for quite a while, it's just that no one noticed. :D

Stealth, we're a simple crowd here. We don't like long words and we love neat pictures. I personally do not understand the LED's too well so I don't have a lot of questions about them and I tend to glaze over when the talk about them gets technical......I'm not saying EVERYONE does this.....just me. ;)

Grows are never very exciting at the beginning......as you said. People don't want specs......they want results. You pop out a few super nice plants and I can GUARANTEE
people will be asking you questions right, left and sideways about your lights, your soil, etc.....That's what I mean about no recognition until LONG after you are gone.


When you turn them.....that's when you'll probably start seeing a bunch of nosy stoners sticking their heads and wanting to know whats going on. :D

[Weedhound]

Now I DO like those seedling photos.....and the seedlings look very happy and healthy with your lighting (and not pink so I can really see them....:thumbsup:)

[zebulon]

Well the plants seem to like that LED-light....they didn't died...they look nice & healthy....;)
Good work so far SnSstealth....:thumbsup: (That color is crazy)

[SnSstealth]

points taken...i really do appreciate everyone chiming in their ideas, points, opinions, (bellybuttons:thumbsup:) and Im sure im spewing alot, just excited about the whole LED thing. took ALOT for me to give up the HIDs..i KNEW they worked. but i also knew that until i KNEW if the LEDs worked, it would bug the shit outta me...so if cture is right, and i am doomed to fail, fine. but i will know. do pics every few days, till they really get moving...thinkin im gonna let them get 24in before flowering, going for like 6fters...heh
late:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[MVP]

I for one don't give half a shit what nay sayers have for opinions. I respect someone who is willing to dare to experiment.

:S5:

Rock on bro!

MVP

[sublime27]

I for one don't give half a shit what nay sayers have for opinions. I respect someone who is willing to dare to experiment.

:S5:

Rock on bro!

MVP

I'll second that!:jointsmile:

[SnSstealth]

ty MVP and sublime:smokebong:

[Weedhound]

It's not that he dared to expirement.....I think we all do that.......it's that he dared to expirement $1800 worth. That's pretty much a different ball game right there.

[luvfriday]

I picked this up the other day, an LED light for 99 cents. It has a power cord or takes 2 AA batteries. They also had pallets of CFL Bulbs that are paid for in part by edison to get us to switch out old bulbs. If Edison can sponsor energy saving products and distribute them this cheap why are the fricking red and blue one $600 bucks? Hello........I could buy 50 of these and some red or blue leds and swap out the whites here wouldn't you think?

And I would but knowing me I would knock out power on the western grid or get electrocuted. However I still might try, I just wondered if someone else thinks it could work because it seems too easy and too cheap.

Oh yeah and you can get this wonderful desk light in silver or black!!!

[Opie Yutts]

in the case of LED grows it's going to be quality over quantity or i'd feel like I was wasting the money for no reason

Mmmm, could someone please explain how LED lights affect quality any differently than say... CFL, or halogen, or MH.

[Opie Yutts]

not EVERYONE is going to feel that way or be that excited about it for one simple reason. Most people can't afford that kind of money in one go and so won't be investing in that lighting anytime soon

Stealth...you DO realize that you will NOT be recognized for your achievements until after you are dead. This is the price of genius....and I speak from personal experience. :D

SnS, there is iron in WHs words, yet they ring with a tone of discouragement. Please don't worry about the naysayers and nerdowells. Please continue with your plans that I personally am excited about, and will continue to be, right up until the point that in flowering when you decide to dump the experiment and some supplemental lighting. I recognize you not for so much for your genius (yet), but for the fact that you have the balls and the money to try an all-LED grow. LED's are coming soon, like it or not. Actually they are already here and extremely viable for many situations, but it's just that grow LEDs need a tad bit more of experimenting and tweaking. Just a couple more years of tweaking here and there. Not that I'm a big shot, but trust me, I took a class from industry leaders like Phillips and GE.

[SnSstealth]

opiei definitely agree with ya that grow LEDs are not perfected yet, and do need some work. But as they evolve just a weee more to get to that point, i'll be at the point waiting. Im sorry that we were in the financial situation to be able to do this, i mean, even a mediocre harvest will pay for the lights. I dont get though why how much we spent keeps coming up. again i say....someone had to do it, and my balls felt big...heh. ill have some more pics up tomorrow...they loved the lowering of the lights and the start of nutes....we set the lights up to be moved alot because like opie said i believe, we are doing some serious adjustments....constantly...but its somethingIve never done per say, so I dont expect amazing shit the first harvest. I already realize i should've used like a 15 gal pot under each light with 4-5 plants in each...or it could still be cause the stage they are in....I...Dont...Know...LOL but im learning alot right along with you guys....so what im rambling about is basically this...feel free to tell me im doing something wrong, or give suggestions...but dont shoot my shit down before its even started....weedhound, opie, mvp, cma...none of you guys have really bugged me... i was mainly talking about cture, didnt wanna name people, but others thought it was them...
:smokebong:
I needed that...but by all means, everyone chime in all you want

and luvfriday, sorry man, but those LEDs wouldnt grow with 1000 of them...they have to be tuned...blah blah...read earlier on the thread.. lots o spec reasons

[Opie Yutts]

how can you tell me they wont work, when they haven't been used yet.
They will work and they do fine for vegging, and LED arrays have been used many times for growing. Within 15 years I guarantee that myself and many others will be switching to LED grow lights unless some new, better thing gomes along before hand. Just about the same time that they start to function well for producing nice big colas similar to those HID produce, and the initial price to do so becomes a little more realistic.

Please don't get discouraged. Most people thought the guys working on cures for many diseases, or getting some photos of the Martian landscape, or trying to build a flying machine, to name a few, were complete idiots and wasting valuable time and money. Kudos, and have a little "spirit of experimentation" rep. Though it will not be, I want your yield to be just this side of sliced bread. Soon though, soon... Just any decent yield will get me thinking more strongly about switching. I do not expect, nor am I hoping for any kind of astounding yield. Weed smokes the same in the bowl whether it's from a huge crop or not, and the low cost of running LEDs combined with their ridiculously long life, would make the purchase price well worth the money if the yield were anything close to conventional lighting techniques. I'm not asking for much here, just some good, powerful grow lights that are nearly free and cost nothing to operate. That's not asking too much is it?

I want to switch as soon as possible and guys like you may end up making soon a reality. Thanks for the experiment and thanks for sharing.

[Opie Yutts]

Yes, Ive been dead for quite a while, it's just that no one noticed.

Wow, for a dead person you have been producing some pretty cool grows and some nice write-ups. Who's your unghost writer?

[SnSstealth]

eh, girls where talkin, so i went in the room with the cam....here you guys go...its 74 degrees 50 percent humidity and 6.8 Ph:jointsmile:......or not....not letting me put them up right now.......

[Opie Yutts]

...i also knew that until i KNEW if the LEDs worked, it would bug the shit outta me...
Nice attitude of exploration and experimentation. I know the feeling. I like it. It's like, "I just gotta know and I won't sleep much until I do". I sure wish I had the money to do nothing for a living, (or at least for a hobby) other than experimenting with horticulture as it relates to weed farming, and other healing and psychotropic flora. Whatever experiment or item of controversy that popped into my head, or the heads of the people of the cancom forum. (I certainly would not consider frequenting a different forum.) Hey, anyone out there have some grant money for me?


...if cture is right, and i am doomed to fail, fine. but i will know.

You are not doomed to fail. I have a feeling that if you have enough brains to get some seeds successfully growing, you can also see the grow through until harvest. No matter what yield comes of it, the grow, or the experiment will have been a success.

Again, best wishes. Please stand by; sending positive vibes now.... Almmmmmmmmmmmmm (while in lotus position).

[Opie Yutts]

It's not that he dared to expirement.....I think we all do that.......it's that he dared to expirement $1800 worth. That's pretty much a different ball game right there.

Yes it is different, fortunately. So different it just might work. Since we've started talking about LEDs years ago, I've always said that someone might be able to get a nice fat yield using solely LEDs, but not by spending $200 on light. I've always contended that it will be into the thousands$ to end up with anything significant. I was thinking more like $3000 per plant and up, at todays technology and cost, but the price for this technology is rapidly declining, as with all electronics after a few years of getting more recognized and commonplace.

[Opie Yutts]

If Edison can sponsor energy saving products and distribute them this cheap why are the fricking red and blue one $600 bucks? Hello........I could buy 50 of these and some red or blue leds and swap out the whites here wouldn't you think?

Edison and several other companies have recently been taking big initial losses with the hopes of getting people to see the light, (no pun intended), and to get that wonderful government subsidy that comes out of our pockets. The rest, and then some is usually recovered through taxes that come out of our pockets.

The blue ones are normally double or triple the price of red, and they are $600 because it is an entirely different, and much newer technology. Beta video players were damn expensive when they first came out too. Now a unit costs what, 10 cents?

If you choose to rebuild those lights, it would be best if you kept at least a couple white ones, but yes of course, mostly blue and red. Also, different colors and brands run at different volts, amps, ohms, or whatever, which I imagine might be a significant hurdle to overcome. Not sure, I'v been reading some but haven't started tinkering yet. Been waiting for you to show me exactly how. I think you might be better off starting from scratch. Ideally at minimum two light fixtures; one for veg and one for bloom, with more blue in veg and more red in bloom. Sounds like a fun project, and I got pretty excited about similar projects a few months back. They just kinda slid down the priority list one night when I was asleep. Sneaky bastards. Since we are paying for these whether we buy some or not, for 2 or $3 each (with batteries) I'd be tempted to scoop up 50 or 100 of these and see what they can do by themselves. However I fear that if used as grow lights, the cost of batteries will be the downfall (rechargeable batteries? don't know, but that costs electricity). I tell you what though: LEDs make friggen great flashlights. (But get the higher power ones.) Hey either that or you could scoop em all up and sell em on Ebay for $4 each. That's what... x amount? Damn! I almost did that when I got the expensive CFLs for 8 cents each.

[Opie Yutts]

Im sorry that we were in the financial situation to be able to do this, i mean, even a mediocre harvest will pay for the lights. I dont get though why how much we spent keeps coming up.

Why are you sorry for having money? Please don't be, I think that's great. I think it's even more great that you're planning on sending me some. YOUR EYE LIDS ARE GETTING EXTREMELY HEAVY, BUT WHEN I SNAP MY FINGERS YOU WILL AWAKE FEELING REFRESHED AND HAPPY. YOU WILL ALSO GLADLY DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING I TELL YOU TO WHEN I SAY "ALBANIAN CHICKEN SOUP" IN THE PRECEDING SENTENCE.

I'm very happy that at least a couple of us weed growers not only are able to experiment for the sake of the rest of us and for the sake of overall knowledge, but to be able to show us what happens when a grow isn't constrained the slightest by lack of finances. I guess being able to use top of the line products, craftsmanship, nutrients, etc. is what I'm talking about. Hopefully one is able to combine all that with knowledge and common sense. In that case the whole deal has huge advantages over a ghetto grow that "can't afford to spend money on something to measure PH". Not that you are doing all this, but at least perhaps a nice bit of funds may enable you to study and try what might eventually become the "top of the line" lighting system. It was the illustrious Zandor who said, "If you go cheap you'll grow cheap". I whole-heartedly agree.

I'm not entirely sure that you really are sorry or sheepish about getting a little money, but if so there is no need for that. In general I'm just as comfortable around wealthy people (don't know that you are or aren't). We'll get along just fine unless you start indicating that you might be better than me, or start flaunting your money, or just overall being a total ass like I have seen many people do.

And SnS, to answer one part of your question; This may be a little hard for a person with money to understand, but I'll try. For many of us one of the main concerns for everything we consider, or often, everything we think about, is how much that thing or situation is going to cost us. When you have to decide between food or electricity, it's kinda out of the question for many of us to be able to justify spending $1800 an a lighting system for weed. However, many (or at least several) of us are very interested in your project, or LED lighting in general, and perhaps would like to someday construct something similar to your set up. That is why we are interested in many aspects of it, including the cost. In our case we have to ask, so perhaps we can't afford it.

Keep on fighting the good fight.

[Opie Yutts]

However I fear that if used as grow lights, the cost of batteries will be the downfall (rechargeable batteries? don't know, but that costs electricity).

Oops, sorry just skimmed back again. The lights come with power cords as well.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[SnSstealth]

yup....dont get it twisted we is BROKE... a lucky one time lump o loot made sure that if we did it, we did it right....that way we knew what if i had CO2...what if.... so we got it all, now we are broke...and hoping like hell for an AVG at least, yield...then repetition...well...i am talkin to a bunch of growers...lol.....oh..another attempt at the pics....
guess not

whiskeytango

[Weedhound]

I don't recall shooting anything down. I just refuse to bat my eyelashes and say "wow you big strong $1800 hunk you" if I don't happen to think so. And right now, while I like the pink, if you want wows you gotta give the folks something to wow about.
We've all given you the proper wow for the money you spent on lighting (which IS WOW!) but this is a VERY "what have you done for me lately" kind of deal and we're stoners......we forget things fast.

[Opie Yutts]

dont shoot my shit down before its even started....weedhound, opie, mvp, cma...none of you guys have really bugged me... i was mainly talking about cture,

Huh? I guess I missed something. In the 2 or 3 times cture shared with the class I don't remember him/her ever shooting your shit down. Just from memory here, but didn't he just offer some advice and say what he might do differently, and in general offer to help? And at least in somewhat of a non argumentative manner?

As best as this stoney mind can recollect, nobody was putting down your deal man. If you want to point the finger at anyone, seems a more appropriate choice might be Weedhound, but even then I don't think she was doing anything worth fretting over. She just thinks that's a damn large amount of coinage to be dropping on an experiment that's trying to take a concept farther than it has gone in the past. Is that about right WH? I completely understand her point of view and I agree with it. However, if it weren't for insane wealthy people investing a bunch of money in ridiculous, unproven ventures, we wouldn't have much of the necessary useless crap we have at our disposal today. At least it would have got here later, costing many thousands of lives. What the hell is this circular, obtuse, cosmic crap opie?

The deal is that the collective has yet to behold a yield or a bud of great stature, when the grow used LEDs as the sole lighting source. Understand that it is human nature to be skeptical and critical of the new stuff, and defensive of our old "proven" methods. Sure we've seen bud. Also, sure we have not seen giant, mouthwatering dankness as with HPS. This doest mean we should not endeavor to perceiver, especially as technology advances in that area. I hope you don't get discouraged at previous and future put-downs, or whatever, and there most likely will be some.

And I haven't "really" bugged you? huh? Sounds quite a bit different than just plain ol' "you haven't bugged me." I'd appreciate it if you could point out my bugginess, so that I may learn to not be such a bugger.

[Opie Yutts]

... LEDs are not perfected yet, and do need some work. But as they evolve just a weee more to get to that point, i'll be at the point waiting.

That is an extremely bold and confident statement. I'm pulling for you, but that is one hell of an order to fill. I hope you'll grab my hand and pull me up to that level when it happens, or at least somewhere close.

[SnSstealth]

Mmmm, could someone please explain how LED lights affect quality any differently than say... CFL, or halogen, or MH.

I can't explain it, but both in the Hightimes UFO grow comparison and one other I saw, they claimed higher resin levels and a better high. I dont claim to know why, just hoping they're right:thumbsup:

Doughboy

[SnSstealth]

Everyone please understand the purpose of coming in here so early is to have a hard to dispute, picture laden record of WHATEVER happens with these grow lamps. good or bad. They are out there making claims of what they can do and until each different type of light is tested by themselves than no one will no. If the price we payed is an issue I would rather it not mentioned ever again. As WH said this thread will blow up if we show budding plants and its getting long already. The LED lights...info please thread (of which I think we've all been to)is a good place for lighting theory ?'s. I'm not trying to shut anyone down or stop their input, but cture "INSISTING" we add more lights isn't what we were looking for. I know there are many "helllllp what do I do" posts, so its understandable, and NO we dont know everything and may have ?'s just as you have. It just seems we all(us included) are sharpening our sticks to go after one another for no reason. We are all very interested in any new grow technique, its human(grower...lol) nature for new processes to be loved and belittled at the same time. I do hope that you are all around to either point and laugh or point and praise...and the experiment will continue.

:rastabong:fillin it up to send around the room,
Doughboy

P.S. pics as soon as it lets us

[hatch]

SnSstealth, Well said!! Yes your pictures are great. They illustrate exactly what you are tring to acheive. This is not a grow show yet it's research, I think you will be proud of your results and quality but lack a little wieght. But hey hoo-doesn't want more potent smoke!! Congrates on where you are know and Good Luck In Your Future. Later

[Opie Yutts]

Any chance I could just get a couple quick quotes, thoughts or ideas as to why LED lighting would make more CB and THC. Could someone paraphrase so my 4-day long headache doesn't have to go hunting? Just 2 more days to break my record.

[hatch]

Maybe because more energy is absorbed in the right Wavelength's and allowing more time to creating CB and THC. Later

[geoluv]

i wanted to get that light soooo bad but it was sooo expensive. i cant wait to see how your grow goes this is the first one iv seen with the procyon. if it realy produces like a 600w hps thatll change the game.

[Opie Yutts]

Maybe because more energy is absorbed in the right Wavelength's and allowing more time to creating CB and THC. Later

Mmmm nope, that aint it. Anything else?

For optimum efficiency a plant needs more than one or two wavelengths. More like somewhere between 15 and 100. We're just not sure yet.

[SnSstealth]

i havent seen anything definitive about THC raising or taste or quality. i've read a few claims here and there...but that was what they were...i dont even think it was the HGL site that said it....so i cant answer your question either opie...cause i have no clue how it would.....lol

[Gruffy]

good on you for trying something new :)

you got any up to date pics of the lil ladies ?

[Blumen]

If there is more resin, it might even be because something is missing. Which, in this case, would happen to be a good thing. Adding other colors might be counterproductive even.
Pure speculation, at this moment, but not watering a plant is meant to raise resin at the end of the plants cycle, too.

I can't remember if you are going to train the plants in some sort, LST, SCROG or keep them low as in a SOG, which I definitive would find beneficial (light penetration of the LEDs/ light fall off). No one would find that to be an unfair comparison to HID.

With those systems even two layers of LST-plants are possible where you can have only one with HID, since cooling and distance to the plants are a ruling factor, especially in cupboard grows.

But the most important thing is to have clear and straight grow. Don't fiddle about stuff, that can't be reproduced even by yourself.

Thumbs up, I'm reading this with pleasure.

[Haro bmx 420]

Well i must say stealth, You are doing a very good job teaching any growers the benifits of LED Growing and i think everyone who is stating their opinions rudely should think again, what if this does work good and you get a massive yeild? everyone will be bowing to your feet asking for help and questions. I for one think thats very pacient of you to try something new and see the results. keep up the good work, ill be checkin up for photos of your little babes :) :rastasmoke:

[Paht_Hed]

Well I don't know about you guys but I have been intently following the LED reports in High Times. Basiclaly the problem with LED lights is the diodes that they are currently using. I know that the LED UFO uses 445 nm reds and 627 nm blues. (Problem with this info. The nm info is taken straight from High Times. Needless to say if you know anything about the color spectrum I believe they meant to put 445 blues and 627 reds since red happens at the higher end of the spectrum.) It says right in the article that they would LOVE to use 660 nm blues but they are WAY too expensive. I cannot speak for the Procyon 100 but the LED UFO will cause higher amounts/more potent resin but also a decreased yield and lots of stretching. Greatest absoprtion SPECIFICALLY for cannabis plants occurs at roughlt 425nm and 660nm. If you can find a way to provide 5000 lm per sq ft of 425nm and 660nm I can almost guarantee that you will get similiar results to that of HID lighting. In fact I am about to have a friend wire me up a board of 100-150 LEDs in those wavelengths. I am also going to try and find a few other wavelengths close to those just for a broader spectrum.

Buyers, don't be afraid to invest in some LED lights once you feel you are confident in them. The energy savings alone will pay for itself within a very short amount of time. I am telling you guys LEDs ARE the future

Great grow man lookin awesome.

[SnSstealth]

wierd...still wont let me post pics, keeps saying server timed out.....blumen, I am getting 5000 lumen across the room at the top of the pots. and the procyon is a lil bit stronger than the UFO. the UFO is 90w and the procyon is 100. few more reds. im definitely considering SCROG depending on how the girls look in about 2 weeks. it could only help if im not quite getting enough light.

[Weedhound]

Paht....that's great but the future needs to get cheaper.

Sounds like you've really studied this LED thing as well. Hope you do a log too that everyone can follow.

[Opie Yutts]

The energy savings alone will pay for itself within a very short amount of time.

Everyone keeps saying this and it's true, of course. If I run my furnace at 50 degrees instead of 70, there's no doubt doing that will pay for itself very shortly. If I drive a Yugo, or Le Car instead of my 4x4 truck, that would soon pay for itself too. Fuck that noise, I don't want to freeze, I like big powerful vehicles, and I like my weed yields to be as large as possible, no matter what the savings are for smaller yields. These things that are less productive and less expensive to operate are great for some people. Personally I'll do what I can to increase yield.

Do LED's cost less to run? Yes, much less. Do you get less weed using LED's? Yes, much less, unless you use about $5000 worth of light per plant. I hope I'm not bursting your bubble too much, but you're going to need about 10 or 15 of those 100-150 light arrays you are building, per plant, to see much of anything during flowering. If you've got the funds to try experiments, great. Good for you, but considering today's technology, it doesn't exactly make financial sense unless yield is not a concern for you.

Don't forget laws of physics people. Many have tried, and all have failed, to get more energy out of something than is put in.

[Weedhound]

Well I see his point if he just wants to see what they do and that makes sense. But I have to admit that the whole "taking one for the team" spirit confuses me a little in that I'm not exactly sure my team needed one taken.......

[Paht_Hed]

I disagree I think given the right wavelengths and at least 5,000 lumens per sq ft you could get as good of yields if not better than HID. There are HO LEDs that can put out over 130 lumens per watt. Order some 2 or 3 watt LEDs and fill a board with them. Yes it will be very expensive so if you want to start cheap then don't go LED. If you are looking to make/save more money in the long run LEDs are the way to go.

[Paht_Hed]

You can't compare a Procyon 100 OR a UFO LED to an HID lamp because they are both slightly if not way out of the spectrum that is needed for cannabis plants. The key to growing with LEDs since they can't yet match the lumens of an HID and still remain REASONABLY cost efficient is to hit precisely the spectrum needed for optimal growth. The Procyon 100 uses 40 635nm and 16 470nm CREE XLamp LEDs. The UFO LED lamp uses 20 455nm and 70 627nm of an unknown brand, at least to me, 1 watt LED. The light absorption by cannabis PEAKS at roughly 660 nm in the red at 90% absorption percentage in photosynthesis and 640 nm at 80% and 430 nm in the blue at 100% absorption percentage in photosynthesis and 465 nm at 80%. Now this is the combined photosynthesis of all pigments, chlorophyll-a,-b, and carotenoids. The indiviual pigments peak at 440nm at 64% and 660nm at 50% for -a, 465nm at 80% and 640nm at 30% for -b, and 445nm at 60% and 485nm at 58% for carotenoids. The advantage of LEDs is that you can get the EXACT spectrum you need where as with HID lamps you have a broader spectrum so you are wasting some of your lumens since they aren't usable in photosynthesis. I Haven't priced these specific LEDs needed. I am not worried about that right now but you can all expect to see an LED based grow soon. I would love to team up with some of you HID growers out there for some dual grows or something to have a variable.

:smokin:Peace, one love:smokin:

[Dutch Pimp]

wierd...still wont let me post pics, keeps saying server timed out.....

Try reducing the resolution size in your pics. (640x480)..the smaller size is easier to see here too.

[Opie Yutts]

I think given the right wavelengths and at least 5,000 lumens per sq ft you could get as good of yields if not better than HID.

But at what cost, my dear man? Have you no conscience? Think of the lost lives!

I mean, I sure hope so, as I've said many times. No but really, at what cost to encase the plant in the light you speak of, and end up with some beauties?

Unfortunately it aint that simple. Please don't get me wrong, some of you guys seem fairly knowledgeable on the subject, and thanks for spending the time and money so we don't have to.

There are so many things to consider and study. I started, and I was all excited. I had no doubt that I was going to be the first one to come up with the exact perfect combination, since it didn't really seem like anyone else was interested in trying. Soon I began to realize that there is soooo much to study and learn, and a shitload of experiments that need to be done before even deciding what color LEDs to order. Oh yeah, I nearly forgot to mention the fact that in no way could I afford to make prototypes or even conduct necessary experiments. I needed plants, and I needed barrels of test LEDs. After a couple months of studying in some of my spare time, interest waned, at least in the dream of building my LED lighting empire. Itâ??s still there, over in the corner in a box with some clothes on it, but I shut out itâ??s muffled pleas to be released. I donâ??t feel comfortable divulging the entire contents of the box at this time. As far as I know, some of the things in there are completely unique to the collection of grow LED ideas. I just thought it might be best to remove the temptation of borrowing part of one of my ideas for financial gain or dots of rep. Who knows? The box my spring a leak some day. Now, you guys have a go, and more power to you. And hereâ??s some damn good advice, at least from my point of view: Try to think about some things you havenâ??t previously.

In this thread and others Iâ??ve said that I want you guys/gals to succeed, and hopefully within the next couple 3 years. Iâ??ve also said several times that Iâ??ve yet to see a side by side study in which the LED side came anywhere close. Please link me if someone else has.

And Phat, 5,000 lumens. How far from the plant? Lumens is a measurement of the light people see, not plants. But Iâ??m sure you knew that. Is that close to what the plant sees at those nm?

So an array produces light at a hypothetical distance of 2 feet. It produces 8x as much light at 1 foot, and 16x as much at ½ foot. Is that how the inverse square law works? (been awhile). Hypothetically itâ??s not producing enough light for the nice big dripping pieces of corn on the cob that you were hoping for, so you move it to 1 foot. OK good. Thatâ??s getting results much closer to what you had in mind since itâ??s getting 8 times more light. Oops, but where did the buds go on the surrounding areas of the grow? They nearly stopped growing, darn it. Since the manufacturer wanted to claim more light output than the competitor, they decided to use a 15 degree dispersal instead of 30. Sure glad that helps, but you have to go buy (incidentally exactly) 8 times more arrays to surround the one you lowered, so that all the plants can get light. So weâ??ve gone from what $500, up to $4000? Aaaaallright! Awesome, thatâ??s not too bad to hypothetically seem like a pioneering, cutting edge bad ass hero in the weed farming community. Uh oh. Damn it! Seems like this manufacture forgot that lights need a mixture of somewhere between 6 and 30 different reds to be as efficient as possible during flowering. Seems like they got the best test results during vegging and using blue lights, so thatâ??s what most of their advertising and production efforts were concentrated on. So then you decide to get the lights from the other guys, since they advertise 30 degree bulbs for a wider coverage. It doesnâ??t take more than 10 minutes after you set them up to realize that since the light is spread out twice as much, the grow is going to need twice as many to get the same amount of light. Iâ??ll let you guys deal with this and much more.

NOTE: HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION EXAGGERATED FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES.

[SnSstealth]

[quote=Opie Yutts]

And Phat, 5,000 lumens. How far from the plant? Lumens is a measurement of the light people see, not plants. But Iâ??m sure you knew that. Is that close to what the plant sees at those nm?

-----------

5000 lm @ 16" to 18" with 2'x7' coverage=$1822 not 4000. (2' wide because of walls)

Just telling you what the tester reads if you think i'm wrong so be it.

[hatch]

Opie Yutts, What's up? Wavelenght's-is plural. Meaning many, There are 16.2 Billion different Colours you can blend with a LED!!! The extra energy from the correct spectrum is stored and then turns to suger which turn's to CB-THC. That's Botany 101. Later

[SnSstealth]

opie the only link I can give you is to go to your local magazine shop and purchase this months issue of Hightimes magazine.
i dont have it in front of me but they do three separate grows with the UFO compared to a 400mh, a 400 hps and a 600 hps. and they CLAIMED that it produced around the same as the 400 hps. That is all i know. maybe you can get it at there site

Doughboy

[Opie Yutts]

What do you mean they claimed? Don't you get to see pictures or something? Could someone please scan the comparison photos and post them here so that I may, for my first time ever, see an all LED grow that rivals HID? And this is weed, right? I'm not interested in tomatoes or peppers. The nearest High Times is a 2 hour drive.

[Opie Yutts]

The extra energy from the correct spectrum is stored and then turns to suger

What extra energy are you talking about? Where in that spectrum did it come from, as opposed the the same spectrum in an HID lamp, or a CFL? And which one is the correct spectrum? Lil confused over here. I didn't know that had been discovered yet.

[Opie Yutts]

5000 lm @ 16" to 18" with 2'x7' coverage=$1822 not 4000. (2' wide because of walls)
But I was talking about the amount of light that it takes to get those huge dense colas we sometimes see pictures of and rarely get to grow. = $4000.

[SnSstealth]

ill see if i can get them up for ya opie...it spread over 3 issues....anyone else having problems doing pics last few days

[SnSstealth]

opie I thought ive seen lm charts showing 2000 lm as growable but small, 3-5000 good grow range. and 7000 and above was overkill. I know those term are not nearly scientific enough for you and im going from memory UH-OH...lol do i have the numbers wrong?

Doughboy

[Opie Yutts]

Please don't worry about getting all scientific on my ass. I aint that book learnt.

And that would be wonderful if you could show me (us) the comparison photos, but I didn't know that they were spread over 3 issues. Seems like a tad bit of trouble, so I won't be the least bit upset or disappointed if you don't.

[Paht_Hed]

I have read the last two LED reports. They reported a smaller yield (due to a smaller amount of lumens being output by the light) and higher resin counts. The pics of the bud was pretty damn sticky looking. They used the LED UFO. Basically they aren't even using what they should be and they still got good results. No one is arguing that the money isn't there yet but, and I can't speak for anyone else, I for one am arguing that you can get better results given you match the same amount of lumens as an HID.

[SnSstealth]

wooooooooosah.....pics are from this morning...and appear to have let me post....YAY...the internode gaps look good...babies are BRIGHT green unless thats my eyes from being in the grow room...do they look greener than avg? any differant from a HID? guess i shoulda done side by side...even if we did like 2/3 LED and like a 2x2 with a 400HPS...maybe next grow...unless......we get a dank harvest...fingers crossed...hte first pics i posted were 6 days ago...so they might be going a wee bit slow...tell me what you guys think....any differant looking than normal?
:smokebong:

whiskeytango

[SnSstealth]

i just looked at those pics on my comp...is there any way i can post them in the same resolution?...they ones i posted on here dont look as good
bong
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[smok3y]

Lookin nice a health dude.. Will defo be poping back to see how ur grow goes man..

Good luck:thumbsup:

[Opie Yutts]

I have read the last two LED reports. They reported a smaller yield and higher resin counts.

I'm guessing more resin is due to the stress of not enough light? Anyone? And if this is so, is this stress a good thing? Does more resin also mean more THC and other CBs, or just more resin? Also would it be fair to say that since you get less resin overall, but more resin per plant matter, does it come close to the overall goodness of results from HPS? Has anyone compared THC percentages in that extra resin?

[Opie Yutts]

SnS, plants are looking fine to me. Seems pretty normal so far.

About the pictures, High Def monitors are fairly new to the computer scene and most people have the ol' regular monitors. This means that you can post you pictures at bazzillion resolution if you'd like, but most everyone is going to see them at a max of 96 DPI. That's most peoples screen resolution. Generally pictures are saved for the web at 72 DPI, which of course really sucks if you're going for grand quality, but is usually just fine for conveying most messages.

Here's a little thing I posted awhile back. Might help, I don't know. http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/71891-pictures-sizes-how-post-pictures.html

[hatch]

SnSstealth, Plant's are looking great. Have you had a chance to watch the video I put up on the Light section. The coluor's are end less that you can mix with the Wash and spot series. Any coluor in the rainbow, On all different wavelength's even Lazer for some UV. I really like the violet coluor your light through's off. How long did you think you are going to veg.? They haven't streached much, as far as I can see. Good so far. Later

[SnSstealth]

thnaks opie....that was exactly what i needed to know...lol and hatch prob gonna veg for 4 weeks total...so about 2 1/2 more weeks....goin for 5-6 footers...havent sexed, so im sure ill whittle down to about 15 from the 24 we got. then grow em tall topping twice maybe. tahts what i did with the jack herer...so far these look more like the jack than the bubbleberry, but that may change...this is an F1

whiskeytango

[Weedhound]

Those babies look happy and healthy to me Stealth.

[hatch]

I'm guessing more resin is due to the stress of not enough light? Anyone? And if this is so, is this stress a good thing? Does more resin also mean more THC and other CBs, or just more resin? Also would it be fair to say that since you get less resin overall, but more resin per plant matter, does it come close to the overall goodness of results from HPS? Has anyone compared THC percentages in that extra resin?

Opie Yutts, Hey you asked for a short definition, and you said that it wasn't right. So I dug-out a Horticulture book from when I took it at Texas A@M. I'll still try to do it short, but mabe explain it better OK. Plant growth, harvest, potency and even the time to Flower are all dependent on the light they receive. Light quality, intensity and duaration are all important. The following is a brief introduction of plants, light, lumens, and PAR. Light is a plants food. Nutrients are only building blocks for the plant cells, but it is light that provides the energy! So how does it work? When light falls onto leaves it triggers the process of photosynthesis, which in simple terms is the process of turning light, which is radiant energy, into chemical energy. The amazing process of photosynthesis turning light energy into chemical energy, is one of natures wonders. This energy transfer happens inside the plants cell structures called chloroplasts. The basic components of chloroplasts are individual membranous, sacs which contain fats, proteins and pigments. Pigments play a important part, They absorb light in the photosynthesis process of turning light energy into chemical energy. Choraphyll, For example is an important pigment which absorbs red and blue wavelengths of light. The light absorbed by the pigment causes a reaction, which produces chemical energy( it makes electrons out of the light, and the electrons use thier charges to make sugar energy for the plant). The chemical energy produced by the chlorophyll (pigment) from light is sufficient to split the water molecules apart. This provides units of hydrogen(H) and hydroxide(OH). The hydroxide combines with carbon dioxide, Which provides the energy for plant growth.( And you thought there was nothing going on in your plants!!) Light, its intenisty, quality, its colour, spectrum, wavelength are therefore all-important factors, but how do we measure light and what are the most important components. Light is measured in photons, Light actually hits objects just like a spray of water, and the sun emits lots of light photons, to give you an idea of how many; the sun hits our body with over 12,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, photons every second and a plant needs about 20 photons to make a finishedmolecule of sugar. So our scientists can count the number of photons hittng the plant and even predict how much of this energy will convert into FLOWERS of FRUIT!!! Each industry has its own way of measuring light. Photographers use a light meter, the lighting industry uses lumens or lux and the gardening industry uses PAR. All are only measurements. Light from the sun is ideal but its not the same as artifical light, where output, quality, spectrum ect; raries upon the type of lamp and how it is used. Many growers think that more lumens= better growth/yields, When in fact artifical light, even at its BEST in a HID @ HPS lamps, but is not so good in terms of colours, much of the light from the bulb is not used by the plant, mainly because it is not in the 400 to 700 NW ( Nanowave) spectrum, and plants can only see and use light in this range. Light quality and its colours are as important as lumens. Light, as seen by plants is not a single colour but separate bands of active colour-band of light as a separate signal. Each band of colours has a different effect on plants and the following are only a few of the functions which each band of light promotes. 400 to 700 nw spectrum Blue light (350-500nw) powers chlorophyll production, powers cell actively, energies the stonata movement and makes the plant follow light. Green/Yellow light (500-650nw) not much action from these bands of light, but needed for good health. Red light (600-700nw) makes sugar from CO2. powers chlorophyll production , signals light and dark times among other functions. Strong blue and red light photons (as above) are also needed for good carbon dioxide uptake. The PAR scale measures all these colours, photons between 400nw @ 700nw, The critical range that plants can use of light. If its not in this range then its wasted light. For growers PAR is all impotant and as important as lumens. PAR stands for Photosynthetic Avtive Radiation. Photosynthetic, the sensed by a leaf pigment. Active, the light that causes the leaf pigment to become active for making energy. Radiation, another way for light @ photon energy. PAR is the measurement scale used internationally as a metric light measurement and is becoming more and more relevant to Growing and Greenhouse light measurement. PAR is the measure of light that a plant actually senses and uses, and it is the light the plant sees and can use that is more important then actual output lumen of the HID @ HPS Grow Lamps. A Large HID Lamp may give out loads of lumens, but if its to far away from your plants most lumens are wasted, the light intensity diminishes with distance and in addiction the light is limited of what the plant needs because it is in the wrong spectrum!! So the main value of the PAR measurement is that it is the only measure that takes into account the actual light and light Colours that the plant uses to energies its pigments and generate sugar energy, and its the sugar that makes your plants grow and produce SUCH SWEET FRUITS OF OUR LABOR!!! You should have taken my short definition. Hope that explains where the exrta potency comes from using the LED's, correct Colours and no waisted spectrum. Fuck I need about 20 Bong-Hits. Later

[hatch]

Man I had it all seperated and in paraghraphs. Sorry it put it all together, anyway there is some good info in there from start to finish. Later

[cmasfca]

That wall of text hurt!

Haha but good reading for sure :)

[Opie Yutts]

OK hatch, that gave my record breaking, 6 day-old headache a run for it's money. I read the whole thing and I can't for the life of me, figure out what it is exactly that you're trying to teach me. I love ya man, and I respect your mad passion for LED lighting, but to be honest it's kinda like I kept waiting for a punch line that never came. Well, let me take another (and shorter) look I guess, hold on...

Nope, still no luck, sorry. I want to understand, really. Iâ??m sorry for taking so much of your time, but I do appreciate you trying to help me get a hold on the physics behind this fascinating concept. I donâ??t know if itâ??s me or what (and it certainly could be), but something just aint clicking. If you donâ??t mind, Iâ??d like to not give up on it just yet. Or maybe if youâ??ve had enough of me someone else can take over and pound it into my head.

I disagree with a thing or two in your thesis, but perhaps a different time. I guess where I really want to go is, what extra energy? What is this energy you speak of and where are we getting it? According to known laws of physics it must come from somewhere, it canâ??t just suddenly exist (well maybe, but then weâ??re getting into a non physics discussion).


extra energy from the correct spectrum is stored and then turns to suger

Hope that explains where the exrta potency comes from using the LED's, correct Colours and no waisted spectrum.

So hypothetically light #1 provides wavelengths A and Z, while light #2 provides exactly the same thing plus wavelengths Q, R and S. Are you with me so far? Oh crap, this illustration is probably stupid. Ah, go for it opie, your stupidity is already legendary. OK, so in order for my 2 hypothetical plants to feed at peak chlorophyll activity in the restaurant of life, they need to order a helping each of light #2. Being typical youngsters, they prefer to just load up on wavelengths A and Z all day, and the truth is they could survive on that alone. But theyâ??re nearly adults now, and theyâ??re mature enough to know that eating some Q and S will build strong teeth and bones, and help them to grow up to be happy, healthy and productive members of society. They always ask for an extra plate so they can have some place to put wavelength R, which unfortunately comes with light #2. They donâ??t care much for the taste of R, and they really have no use for it. It would almost be like humans eating celery, which makes them burn more calories than are taken in.

One night as the plants lay awake in bed, they spoke of their dream of getting extra energy some how from one of the lights. Below them on a shelf were some young seedlings just finishing up a late dinner of light #3. They couldnâ??t help overhearing the conversation, and started saying how much better off they were because they didnâ??t care what kind of light they ate, and they could even survive in conditions of very low light.

All of a sudden Misty, the seedling leader spoke up and said she had an awesome idea. â??I think I know how we could get extra energy,â?� she said with pride. â??Oh piss off,â?� said one of the young adults, â??Weâ??ve been talking about that for the past 2 hours, and thereâ??s no friggen way. Laws of physics and such.â?� Though the young adults acted nonchalant and aloof, they secretly were very excited to hear what Misty was thinking of. After all, since in the beginning, when God put weed in charge of all the earth, enterprising plants have unsuccessfully been trying to get extra energy out of things. The seedling went on to explain that if they were to simply switch to light #1, meals would stop coming with that annoying wavelength R. After all, though not ideal it is possible for them to live without Q and S, and survive solely on A and Z. Ipso facto, abracadabra, boom! Extra energy. â??That doesnâ??t really make senseâ?�, one of the older ones said. Well that didnâ??t detour Misty in the slightest, as she continued to clarify her position. She was a little baffled because to her, it seemed so obvious and made every bit of sense. Even though she would be loosing some energy from the absence of Q and S, it would more than be made up for, by the simple fact that wavelength R would no longer be available. Logically, this in turn would create extra energy, and therefore faster and bigger growth. â??Itâ??s great sheâ??s thinking for herself and all,â?� whispered one of the older plants, â??but this is the same chick that 2 days earlier insisted we could make a 2 foot length of chain stronger by adding more links.â?� The other older plant chuckled quietly, â??Yeah, eliminating certain wavelengths wonâ??t generate extra energy. Itâ??ll just make light with fewer wavelengths.â?� The first older plant said goodnight to everyone, then smiled and said to Misty, â??Good luck with that extra energy thing. Let us know how it works out for you.â?�

[hatch]

Ya, Sorry about the wall of text! Hey Opie Yutts you still in here? Hey what did I do wrong? When I typed you that reply, I had it all seperated like in some of your lessons, And also in different paragraphs and when I submit it , It ran everything together? I laugh every time I see your Avatar!!! Funny Shit eh. Tell me how to post it right next time Please Sir. Later

[hatch]

OK, Believe it our not but I understand your story. Put it this way, you have heard older growers say that when they use a MH to flower they get more potent smoke and more trich. In my maddness its the ultra violet through blue that the extra energy is coming from. With that said when we are using the HPS solo its more in the orange to red. Thats why you always here when they mix the MH / HPS in flowering they have a better finish. When HPS is alone its to high in the spectrum and thats where the extra energy is lost. The reason the HPS gets any results is the high output of lumens. Is that definition any help. Have we made a break-through? Maybe so maybe no? My patient are like a virtue! WE will keep tring till we get it staight. What's the dill with the headaches? High blood pressure, sinus? Man that sux! Later

[Weedhound]

I read the entire thing as well......twice.....and besides a nice definition of PAR I didn't read a single thing about either "stored" energy in the plant created by "the correct wave length" or frankly....ANY discussion on certain wavelengths of light creating "more thc or cbn" than any other type of lighting that is put at the correct distance.

[New2Dro]

This thread is very informative, less all the haters. I admire what he's trying to do here. Sink or Swim, everyone should tune in!!! I know I am... Besides, Iâ??m setting up a DWC bubbling bucket system, and Iâ??ve been leaning towards LEDâ??s to light it. You canâ??t beat the proâ??s, and if he fairs even remotely close to HID or HPS as fare as yields go, it will change the industry. :jointsmile:

[angry nomad]

Thanks for risking some cash for this experiment. LED's are more efficient than light bulbs, and use a lot less electricity. Another bonus is it's harder to triangulate on people by their electric bills.

This is all very interesting.

You plants look really healthy and happy so far. Good luck, friend!

[New2Dro]

Thanks for risking some cash for this experiment. LED's are more efficient than light bulbs, and use a lot less electricity. Another bonus is it's harder to triangulate on people by their electric bills.

This is all very interesting.

You plants look really healthy and happy so far. Good luck, friend!

My thoughts exactly! For those of us who live state side this is extremely important. :jointsmile:

[SnSstealth]

Hey all,

(continuing with Opie's lighting names)

Could it be that "light 1" sends out much higher photon levels of A and Z so much so that they compensate for Q and S?

Is it possible to get spectrum related photon data (testers or charts)? I read somewhere during this expedition that a 1000w hps has about 120w or so of photosyntheticly (<-- is that a word...lol) useable light, most lost to heat(another damaging factor). So could it be possible with a higher lumen count hitting the plant of correct spec. to make more potent resin?

Just a second, heat affects resin greatly. How about the heat from HIDs prematurely destroying some CBs and Trichs? I mean just the mild heat created by pressing affects the outer crystals.

Just a couple more ?'s for our led theory page:wtf:

Doughboy

[SnSstealth]

Welcome new2dro and angrynomad

Thanks all for reviewing pics. Theres starting to be more growth every time i look, which with how much i can control myself is pretty often...lol. more on wed. or thu.

Doughboy

[DoDoFoShoDoe]

Stealth!!!

as far as im concerned, your plants are looking very happy. keep up the good work and im sure you will be pleased with the results!:jointsmile:

dodo

[cture]

wooooooooosah.....pics are from this morning...and appear to have let me post...
whiskeytango

SnStealth, I hope your grow will deliver you some pleasure, and I hope you wouldn't mind if I'll take part as critisist in this thread:rastasmoke:

Regularly it takes 3-5 days scince germination for seedling to open second set of leaves, how long took yours?
On last photos we can observe a little mutation such as leaf deformation and a 2finger leaf instead of 3, were these mutations in your garden earlier?

[maryvv22]

I appreciate your taking the $$, time and resources to try this new approach. I will be looking forward to seeing what kind of results you get. I think you are getting a lot of unnecessary heat in thread. Just keep on truckin....LOL. :hippy:

[SnSstealth]

in the most respectful way..... there's 1 or 2 LED theory threads. this is not one of those. we ARE using LEDs...kinda moot point to theorize about it now huh.... now i see what ya meant WH, about keeping certain things in the correct threads....trust us, we got yelled at for it...lol.

answering question 34486: (welcome back cture)
i noticed the few mutations too, but doesnt seem to effect them at all...got one plant that has 2 sets of 1 leafs...maybe its in the F1. i have had small mutations in leaves many times before, didnt seem to effect the over all product...just a few less leaflets on some leaves....as far as i know, through all the growing IVE done, leafs forming not perfect is fine, have a few almost every garden
BONG!!!!!!!!! thanks for the imput guys
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[Opie Yutts]

Ya, Sorry about the wall of text! Hey ... Hey what did I do wrong? When I typed you that reply, I had it all seperated ...in different paragraphs and when I submit it , It ran everything together?

I've got a good idea what's happening. Not sure, but a good idea, since a very similar thing happens to me. I don't get it really, but it must have something to do with how different word processors function in regards to automatic web page stuff. When I type something on my laptop in MS Works word processor, then copy and paste into the reply box, everything looks like it should. Paragraphs are separated properly. On the other hand however, when I compose something on my desktop computer, I normally use MS word. (Yeah, I know, sorry for supporting Microsoft. I gave up my soul and things are still Fd up.) If i don't add an extra "enter" before I start a new paragraph, the same thing that happened to you, happens to me. For some reason it all strings together like yours did. Sometimes I'll be with it enough to remember the extra keystroke, and others I've luckily previewed and fixed it before submitting.

[Opie Yutts]

OK, Believe it our not but I understand your story. Put it this way, you have heard older growers say that when they use a MH to flower they get more potent smoke and more trich. In my maddness its the ultra violet through blue that the extra energy is coming from. With that said when we are using the HPS solo its more in the orange to red. Thats why you always here when they mix the MH / HPS in flowering they have a better finish. When HPS is alone its to high in the spectrum and thats where the extra energy is lost. The reason the HPS gets any results is the high output of lumens. Is that definition any help. Have we made a break-through? Maybe so maybe no? My patient are like a virtue! WE will keep tring till we get it staight. What's the dill with the headaches? High blood pressure, sinus? Man that sux! Later

Ah the friggen headaches. Got my record yesterday, 6 days straight fluctuating in and out of migraine territory. Nobody can tell me why I have them, including the time I was 12 years old and they stuck the needles under my scalp and hooked me up to some machine (EEG - Electro Encephilo Gram)(sp?)

Well at least I think we're getting closer. I understand that there is a lot of wasted light when using HID. But wasted isn't really that bad, it's just... wasted. If you have enough money and don't care much for the environment, "wasted" is just fine. "Lacking" on the other hand certainly is not, and that's where LED lighting systems are right now. In order to be completely as efficient as possible, the're going to need some of those Q and S wavelengths.

I think what threw me off track is you said that by not using the lights that waste light, we will be getting extra energy. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure now that you didn't exactly mean that.

[Opie Yutts]

LED's are more efficient than light bulbs!

Aaaaahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhrrhrhrrhrrrrrrrrhrrrrrrrrr rrrrrggggggghhg! (sp?)

[Opie Yutts]

Could it be that "light 1" sends out much higher photon levels of A and Z so much so that they compensate for Q and S?
I'm pretty sure that would depend on several things, such as wattage, dispersal angle, and distance.


Just a second, heat affects resin greatly. How about the heat from HIDs prematurely destroying some CBs and Trichs? I mean just the mild heat created by pressing affects the outer crystals.
OK, but for the purposes of my discussions, unless stated otherwise, I'm leaving the heat factor out of it. I'll assume everyone has the proper ventilation for whatever light they're talking about.

[Opie Yutts]

I think you are getting a lot of unnecessary heat in thread.

I hope you're not thinking some heats been from me. I've wished him every bit of luck possible since before you guys were a gleam in your daddy's eye. Someone has to not get all LED-giddy if we're going to succeed in this endeavor, and I do take issue with people stating things like "LEDs are more efficient", or "LEDs generate extra energy", as a matter of fact, without a couple side by side photos or a couple of numbers or something to back it up.

[MVP]

Man I had it all seperated and in paraghraphs. Sorry it put it all together, anyway there is some good info in there from start to finish. Later

Ah, gotta love that 'Preview Post' button, don't ya? Keep on trying the explanation, we'll get it eventually....:jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

ok two things.....

Exactly how many people are "transmitting" under Stealth's name here. So far I think there is ....3??

Also this thread has become QUITE the discussion booth so bet NOW you wish everyone would stay off your thread right? :D Well you asked for it....so there. ;)

[SnSstealth]

there are just 2 of us,,,whiskeytango and doughboy...and i dont really feel like we are getting "too much heat"... its supposed to be open for debate, discussion, ranting.....just not straight nay-saying, (deja-vu?) and that even only happened once....and no opie, dont feel any heat, flak, bad juju from you...we actually appreciate having (hmmm...wording) knowledgable people to go through this...its needed to have devils advocate, the other side....shirts and skins to get a proper grow. otherwise we wouldnt be on here yeah? Im glad that there are this many people interested in this, for or against.
so yeah, again, keep coming with the bellybuttons everyone, otherwise this would be boring...
bongggggg......
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[SnSstealth]

thanks for the comments guys, but Im a sarcastic guy...lol. i never meant for WH or Opie to think they bothered me in any way...so if you guys think that.....dont. i appreciate you guys, and MVP and Rock (stay dirty!!!) none of you guys comment out your ass...you know what the hell your talkin about...and.... i think im done now.....
for now..
:jointsmile:
whiskeytango

[hatch]

SnSstealth, So I guess I'm one of the ones you are speaking of. If you have any problem with any of my post, Feel free to delete or redirect to the correct thread, And we will continue this topic. Later

[SnSstealth]

RODNEY KIIIIIIIIING!!!!!!!!!! cant we all just get along......

[hatch]

Ah, gotta love that 'Preview Post' button, don't ya? Keep on trying the explanation, we'll get it eventually....:jointsmile:

Ya HEHEHE! I'm a no spelling dude,BOOBOO.

Alway's see it after the fact, We all have our hang-up's.

I'll do better I promise.

Yes, We can all get along! We are all in it together EH. Later

[physicsnole]

I have EXTENSIVELY researched growing with LED's and this is going to be my setup (open to thoughts...):

1200 LED array
-420nm,470nm,640nm,660nm,730nm
-Use 730nm to quickly convert Phytochrome-FR to Phytochrome-R which naturally takes 12 hours (hence the 12 hour light cycle). By doing this we can flower with shorter nights, meaning flowering with longer days, meaning more energy, and hopefully more bud!:thumbsup:
-vegetation=2:1 Blue:Red, flowering= 7:2 Red:Blue
-PCB's made by ExpressPCB
-Driven by 8 Maxim MAX6971 16-Port, 36V Constant-Current LED Drivers
-going to overdrive LED's at 55mA:rastasmoke:, but also creating up an astable oscillator circuit to pulse the LED's at about 20kHz, and have the duty cycle=10%, 1ms on-9ms off.
-UV-B lamps for even more serious bud:jointsmile:
-UV-C lamps disinfecting water supply
-Have an additional HPS light for flowering ONLY
-Use Dry Ice:cool: for CO2 enrichment and temperature control-AND only costs 60 cents a day!!(and when you CO2 enrich, you dont have to have ventilation[only circulation])

I do have a couple of questions though. Can you string different color LED's in a series. For example a series of 17 LED's 10 red and 7 blue. I have read you can but im not sure. And my friend is taking care of nutrition, he knows his stuff.

[physicsnole]

Oh ya im also using a Picaxe microcontroller to time and control the lights and pH level and flow valves....

[physicsnole]

And I think LED's are more ENERGY effecient than HPS lights, however HPS lights do the job better than MOST led grow lights

[SnSstealth]

are you using class 2 LEDs? are they CREE XLamp?...or something of equal quality. cause if you are making a board to grow efficiently, you need LEDs puttin out like 2w each. thats what i got in the procyon...i got 125w LED with only 60 lights...... and you can string colors my ration is 14 blue 46 red

[SnSstealth]

i need some help here WH, opie, mvp, rock...or someone whos been growing a while, cause ive never seen it. it looks like one of the planys self topped....its only 3 1/2 in tall, on its secong et of 5 leaves..its sprouting 3 instead of 2...all three with full stems....wierd? i tried putting the pics up...but sites pooping on me again.....
ill try with the pics a few more times
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[Opie Yutts]

I have EXTENSIVELY researched growing with LED's and this is going to be my setup (open to thoughts...):

I do have a couple of questions though. Can you string different color LED's in a series. For example a series of 17 LED's 10 red and 7 blue.

I guess you did not research as extensively as you may have thought. You can string LED's in series or parallel, depending on your controllers and how you wire. Both ways have pros and cons. If you are going to do this you will need to read up more on the wiring aspect, or have someone else build them for you.

I hope you'll make a grow log and share with the class.

[Opie Yutts]

i need some help here WH, opie, mvp, rock...or someone whos been growing a while, cause ive never seen it. it looks like one of the planys self topped....its only 3 1/2 in tall, on its secong et of 5 leaves..its sprouting 3 instead of 2...all three with full stems....wierd? i tried putting the pics up...but sites pooping on me again.....
ill try with the pics a few more times
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

If it's never been damaged, that's a little weird. Not totally insane though. Especially indica varieties will do that sometimes.

[physicsnole]

The LED's I am using are: 5mm ultra bright
470nm-6000mcd-30mA-80mW
640nm-8000mcd-30mA-80mW
660nm-3500mcd-20mA-70mW

1000+ LED's can produce approx 80W. So 6 of these panels could make alot of watts for LED lights.

And thats before overdriving them. I can ovedrive up to 100mA, but gonna start at 55mA. So there is more light there. and if i pulse the led's i can cut the power by 90%!! so only use approx 8W power instead of 80W.

[physicsnole]

The LED drivers supply up to 55mA per channel, and there are 16 channels. each channel is a series of LED's. The max voltage the driver can handle is 36V, so now knowing I can string different colors in series (i had read that you can, and then i read you cant so i was just making sure) I can have approx 12-15 LED's per channel (depending on color ratio). So 1 driver chip can drive 190-240 LED's. 5 driver chips will be more than enough for 1 panel.

[Opie Yutts]

The LED drivers supply up to 55mA per channel, and there are 16 channels. each channel is a series of LED's. The max voltage the driver can handle is 36V, so now knowing I can string different colors in series (i had read that you can, and then i read you cant so i was just making sure) I can have approx 12-15 LED's per channel (depending on color ratio). So 1 driver chip can drive 190-240 LED's. 5 driver chips will be more than enough for 1 panel.

Cool, looking forward to seeing the finished product, and to seeing the nice big nuggets you produce.

[physicsnole]

http://ledshoppe.com/Product/led/LE1001.htm 1000 red LED for 25$
http://ledshoppe.com/Product/led/LE1003.htm 500 blue LED for 20$

not bad considering brightness of 8000 mcd and 6000 mcd, respectively

[SnSstealth]

damn upload pics thing is pissin me off, this is cool shit and i want you guys to see it....lol
im still not getting how you will need that man LEDs.....if they we CREE class 2's, 1000 LEDs would be 2kw of LED...isnt that kinda overkill?...just askin. whats your opinion of the procyons we are using?
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

wait till you guys see this suns pics!! the are going nuts now man:jointsmile:

[physicsnole]

I looked at the procyone and the only reason I turned away was because of the price. The cree xlamps are very nice, but much more expensive than 5mm LED's. Especially now that they have the right wavelengths. The heat generated is also a big issue, but the grow light u have takes care of that. The other problem with the procyon is there are only 2 wavelengths, the other two (660 and 425) give many additional benefits that the plant could use. Ive also read you can trigger flowering by shifting the color of the lights from a majority blue to a majority red. have any of you heard of this?

[MVP]

damn upload pics thing is pissin me off....

Fellas, check your rep and let me know if you want help figuring it out. Are you sure the problem isn't between the chair and the keyboard? :wtf: ;) :D

[SnSstealth]

I looked at the procyone and the only reason I turned away was because of the price. The cree xlamps are very nice, but much more expensive than 5mm LED's. Especially now that they have the right wavelengths. The heat generated is also a big issue, but the grow light u have takes care of that. The other problem with the procyon is there are only 2 wavelengths, the other two (660 and 425) give many additional benefits that the plant could use. Ive also read you can trigger flowering by shifting the color of the lights from a majority blue to a majority red. have any of you heard of this?

yeah you're gonna need thousands of those based on what ive seen grown from 5mm LEDs. granted you have alot of extras (CO2....) but its really a matter of photons generated getting to the plant. yes the xlamps are more expensive but with the time and labor put into mounting 1000's of 5mm, the heat they'll generate that you'll have to pay to control it seems like a wash.

Not sure about the color shift trigger as our plants are under a 5:2 ratio of red:blue 18 hour days and vegging like crazy

Please do make you're own lights:thumbsup: Wish I had the expertise to do that. Good luck cant wait to see your thread:pimp:

Doughboy

[SnSstealth]

fucking uploader!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i really want you guys to see this pic....ive never seen it before, and grown hundreds of plants....never did any true indicas though poie:thumbsup:
ill keep tryin to show you guys
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

wait till the update pics sun!!!! babies are LOVING these lights...lol...4 in plants with 4 internodes...definitely not stretching....lol

[maspino1]

this seedling has germinated yesterday and this picture was taken tonight (feb 6th) 2 hours ago. i had it under the LEDs the whole time in dirt from seed to now and i also used liquid karma.
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/day%201.JPG

PS> so far it's been 3 days since i popped it into the ground, i think the liquid karma really did a good job but the LEDs sure gave it a hell of a thick stem for a seedling

i'd say go for LED if you want your seedlings to look great and be healthy
i'll update you on the veg part when i can see it's at that state:)

[denial102]

this seedling has germinated yesterday and this picture was taken tonight (feb 6th) 2 hours ago. i had it under the LEDs the whole time in dirt from seed to now and i also used liquid karma.
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/day%201.JPG

PS> so far it's been 3 days since i popped it into the ground, i think the liquid karma really did a good job but the LEDs sure gave it a hell of a thick stem for a seedling

i'd say go for LED if you want your seedlings to look great and be healthy
i'll update you on the veg part when i can see it's at that state:)

ahh dude, this looks excellent! Well done :-) Thanks for posting this info there are a lot of naysayers out there ya know, I'm on a HPS now, but i'm considering a veg room of LED's for a continual grow.

Peace,
Denial

[maspino1]

don't forget though, i used liquid karma from germination and still am
but anyways, just to give you a good idea of what i used, i have 3 of these 225 (something like that) LED squares (12"x12")
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/light%20setup.JPG
this is the one i'm using now but the other box i used to germinate the plant had 1 extra
square of LEDs above the plant and the walls surrounding it were white

these LED squares can be found on ebay when you search for 'led grow' and they're great
for keeping your germinating seeds or ambient temperature a comfortable warm (i dont' have a thermostat)

[maspino1]

lol i meant therometer not a thermostat

[Opie Yutts]

Now that's what I'm talking about - completely surrounding the plant with LED's. I believe that's what it's going to take. Rep for you.

[New2Dro]

don't forget though, i used liquid karma from germination and still am
but anyways, just to give you a good idea of what i used, i have 3 of these 225 (something like that) LED squares (12"x12")
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/light%20setup.JPG
this is the one i'm using now but the other box i used to germinate the plant had 1 extra
square of LEDs above the plant and the walls surrounding it were white

these LED squares can be found on ebay when you search for 'led grow' and they're great
for keeping your germinating seeds or ambient temperature a comfortable warm (i dont' have a thermostat)

Way cool, i've been looking at those on ebay myself! They aren't very expensive at all... They usually go for around $40 bucks (usd) form my research, on ebay! :rastasmoke:

Keep it up, i'd like to know how it turns out!

[physicsnole]

I was thinking about these blue LED's- LUXEON V High Brightness LEDs (http://www.philipslumileds.com/products/line.cfm?lineId=3)

And these red LED's-
LUXEON III LEDs (http://lumileds.com/products/line.cfm?lineId=2)

Just 1 of each would make approx-200lm. Thats alot of light. Now say I had 100 of these LED's. That sould be more than plenty.
However my 1200+ LED array only takes up 12"x12" so putting 5 of these puppis in would make alot of light also. On average the array will make approx 6000cd of light, not mcd, cd. so I am having trouble picking between the two types, 5 mm or class 2 LED's.

[SnSstealth]

unfortunately those are china panels....we had a few of those.....they wont work once your plant start growing man. they arent tuned per frequency either, those are what you hewar people calling "china panels" you need class 2 LEDs. show ya updates on how they my lovely ladies are goin tomorrow....the idea is GREAT finally got other LED growers out there. but can you start your own thread on your grow?...would love to follow it and see how it goes..keep checkin in here...i may do the pics today, but tryin to keep the pics at a week apart for referance

and ryan from HGL said all you need to do for flowering is change the time.

[SnSstealth]

Ive also read you can trigger flowering by shifting the color of the lights from a majority blue to a majority red. have any of you heard of this?


one more on this: I dont believe the removal of wavelengths would change the plants physiology to start flowering when the days get shorter (in the fall). not sure how that would work.:beatdeadhorse:lol

[SnSstealth]

k..heres those pics....they are from yesterday.....it opened more and it seems like we just got 3 full leaves at that node instead of 2...interesting though huh?
whiskeytango

[SnSstealth]

i think its safe to say i dont need to worry about stretching with these procyons huh?.....:thumbsup:
whiskeytango

[SnSstealth]

here they are...couldnt wait....first 2 pics are the plant i showed on feb4..this is my referance plant...pics 3 and 4 are the strange sleaf node plant from yesterday...last is a pic of them all in their pretty light....lol...i got my camera set at 4x6 pics...if anyone is having problems viewing, ill shirnk...just lemme know
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[zebulon]

The plants look pretty happy.....nice work so far...:thumbsup:

[MVP]

Hmmm, the only time I can remember seeing stuff like that happen is when the plants are stressed from either temperature or light abnormalities. From the looks of them they seem generally in nice condition.

Remind me - are they clones or grown from seed?

[gornik]

Your plants look great. I just ordered a Procyon-100 a few days ago from Indoor Agriculture. The guy said it'd be four weeks before they got more in stock. My current grow is under some clfs and an HID. The reason I decided to invest in the LED lamp is because of the low heat emission. Winter and spring is okay, but mid summer is a bitch. We use our bedroom closet and keep the door open to let heat out. But summers are way over the top around here. I'm hoping the LED will allow us to grow whenever we want.

Keep it up. I'll be following the thread closely.

[Weedhound]

They DO look great.....and quite healthy as well. That strange leaf stuff if just fast growing plant imo.....they're so happy they can't keep up with the growth. That'll all catch up soon....no worries that I see (not that I'm the word on anything here....;))

Looking good you guys!

[physicsnole]

they arent tuned per frequency either

by this do you mean the wavelengths plants need for photosynthesis?

[SnSstealth]

by this do you mean the wavelengths plants need for photosynthesis?

Kinda, they are from bin containers and from the research ive seen others do, they could vary 20nm(or more) either way. not exactly what I think you're looking for.

Please visit GREENPINELANE.COM (DONT MENTION MJ) to see some experiments done there. they haven't used those exact panels but 5mm and has stepped up to the class 2s. seems to be doing better with them:D

not to mention that the one i got had broken wiring in the back. 1/3 panel didnt work till i took it apart and fixed it. now thats quality:thumbsup:

[maspino1]

omg, your plants look AMAZING!
thanks for warning me about those "china panels" seems like china's reputation is really catching up
:wtf:

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

I am going to check in here and say great work on this log, very thurough and interesting:)

Your plants look very healthy at this point no different than if under a 600 watt MH IMO.

I to will be watching this.

If you get a yeild like you would under HID lighting the company that makes these lights is going to get swamped with orders at the end of this grow!!!

They sell stock? :) Ha Ha

Great work and log keep it coming.

[xcrispi]

Hey Stealth ,
What day did these plants actually break soil ? Jan 21st. when the thread was started ? They look sweet so far .

Weedhound said you had asked about the use of Sucanat somewhere , I couldn't find it ? :stoned::stoned: I almost used molases once , Weedhound did 1 day before me and made GOOP SOUP in her res. , kept me from doing it too . We been budz since . And I started looking for a substitute for molases that would better stay suspended in a hydro system . I've used it in dirt plants too.

I have used all natural organic ground cane sugar a.k.a Sucanat on 2 grows now and liked it . The 1st grow Koolbloom was used also , 2nd grow it wasn't and buds were just as sticky -n- dense . Seemd to do the same thing as Botanicares Sweet that I've used in the past too . Gen. Hydro just came out w/ some = too GENERAL HYDROPONICS (http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/floranectar.html)
Like 40% of it's candy lol. 21% cane sugar , 17% molases . Almost nothing else = Bullshit w/ a huge price tag . You have to dig deep because these sneaky bastards don't always put ingredients on the containers . You can Google M.S.D.S / Material Saftey Data Sheets on any of these and other Big Name products and find out exactly whats in this stuff , and in what amounts and save $$$ and get = results thanks to O.S.H.A :D .

Here's 2 links to articles on Sucanat / Cane use .

Last post in this thread ->
http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/132858-sugar-water-instead-molasses-help-2.html

And -> Maximum Yield - Why Use Sugary Supplements? (http://maximumyield.com/article_v10n5_why_use_sugary_supplements.php)

$3.00 for a 2lb. bag thats lasted 2 grows now , or up to $60.00 a gallon w/ some xtra trace amounts of ingredients w/ big names ??

Hope you grow some big fat buds w/ the L.E.D.s and break new ground man .
Peace
Crispi :jointsmile:

[Opie Yutts]

Your plants look very healthy at this point no different than if under a 600 watt MH IMO.

Yeah I agree. The veg stage is the easy part. You can pretty much use any kind of light. I've been thinking about replacing my MH in the veg section with some fluoros. Just when I got the venting all worked out.

[Opie Yutts]

Maybe even some LEDs.

[Opie Yutts]

40% of it's candy lol. 21% cane sugar , 17% molases . Almost nothing else = Bullshit w/ a huge price tag .

No kidding. We need good, tested recipes for all kinds of stuff. Flushing agents, PH adjusters, I spend way too much on water.

[SnSstealth]

they poked their heads up on the 28th of jan...xcrispi, i got a buddy down here (dirty crew!) who used succanant and swears by it...used all the same fox farm soil and organic nutes i did... he added it to all but saved 4 girls to be the control...avg'ed about 20% more with the succanant, and said his resin output was immensely improved,and its organic, so im gonna go for it.
one of the few problems ive read about the LEDs is they stretched. i deffinitely dont have that problem, if flowering gives me an avg yield, we'll call this a success.
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[zebulon]

So....those plants are 10 days old???:wtf: I am starting to become a believer...

[denial102]

Well done guys, I think this is proof enough that LED has a life ahead of it once the technology becomes a little cheaper, mode widely available and better researched, although from the looks of it, SnS is there already!

Respect,

Peace,
Denial

[Opie Yutts]

Well done guys, I think this is proof enough that LED has a life ahead of it

I have no doubt that LED has a life ahead of it, but I wouldn't exactly call this proof of that. The plants look very nice n healthy, but we haven't even seen them bud yet. I can do the same with incandescents and at a much lower price tag. How can it be proof just a few days into the grow? Once they are harvested, and they come somewhere close to the results of HID, then we will have seen some proof.

This is extremely typical of what I have seen the past few years of LED grow light exploration. On other forums as well (gasp) people see that the plants do fine during veg. The lights on the switchboard light up frantically through vegging, then a few weeks into budding, the posting slows down, and people kinda move on to other stuff. I am in no way saying that I expect that to happen here. I hope for the best, by all means. I want to see some big-ass, honey-drippn ears of corn hanging up to dry. Actually if I just see some regular old buds hanging up to dry, I'll be tempted to switch to all LED.

Summary: A couple weeks into a grow offered as proof? Not even. Close to normal size, normal resin buds as proof? Absolutely. The proof is in the pudding, but it hasn't even been put in the oven yet.

[SnSstealth]

Nope really not proof of anything. we're drooling to get to flower so we can all find out. they'll be what they'll be. after this first grow we should be able to do more experimentation ie. dividers w/ different lights added to see the reactions :thumbsup:

thanks for keeping us grounded Opie:rolleyes: :D



If you get a yeild like you would under HID lighting the company that makes these lights is going to get swamped with orders at the end of this grow!!!

They sell stock? Ha Ha

Yeah if this works out I'm sure HGL will be busy as hell. Theyve sold about 20 already so I hope there are others. cant think they would be further along as we started the seeds while they were still en-route...lol (thank you fedex tracking)

Doughboy:S5:

[SnSstealth]

WOW check out this site Plant Physiology Online (http://4e.plantphys.net/)
25 chapters with subcategories. lots of highly tech. info.

Warning: Weedhound, dont look at the link;)lol

Doughboy:S5:

[denial102]

I have no doubt that LED has a life ahead of it, but I wouldn't exactly call this proof of that. The plants look very nice n healthy, but we haven't even seen them bud yet. I can do the same with incandescents and at a much lower price tag. How can it be proof just a few days into the grow? Once they are harvested, and they come somewhere close to the results of HID, then we will have seen some proof.

This is extremely typical of what I have seen the past few years of LED grow light exploration. On other forums as well (gasp) people see that the plants do fine during veg. The lights on the switchboard light up frantically through vegging, then a few weeks into budding, the posting slows down, and people kinda move on to other stuff. I am in no way saying that I expect that to happen here. I hope for the best, by all means. I want to see some big-ass, honey-drippn ears of corn hanging up to dry. Actually if I just see some regular old buds hanging up to dry, I'll be tempted to switch to all LED.

Summary: A couple weeks into a grow offered as proof? Not even. Close to normal size, normal resin buds as proof? Absolutely. The proof is in the pudding, but it hasn't even been put in the oven yet.

Hey opie, your points are very clear, I was actually basing it on other evidence around the net (aswell) and on this board I've seen. People are getting harvests, just - even from seedling the ones I've seen always seemed to stretch and yield a lot less. So far we can see it is doing a so far so good job in veg.. hopefully we will get the smoking gun with the help of those generous enough to share their experiences.

Remember opie, there are a few naysayers on here who are saying "never will work, if it did the industry would be using it" etc; I think we can say without a doubt it does work, without a doubt, it is just || how well || :-)

My 2 cents, and yeah I did expect someone to pull me up on that,

Peace,
Denial

[Opie Yutts]

Wow SnS, Nice link. That's one for my favorites for sure. I think I'm going to learn all that stuff tonight. Shouldn't take to long, 5 minutes or so.

[Opie Yutts]

denial, true, true. I hear ya.

[Weedhound]

Well I say just wait and see and it should answer all questions.

[SnSstealth]

time shall tell..........

[hatch]

WOW check out this site Plant Physiology Online (http://4e.plantphys.net/)
25 chapters with subcategories. lots of highly tech. info.

Warning: Weedhound, dont look at the link;)lol

Doughboy:S5:

Great find I'll be reading and studing every word on this site for day's. Later

[maspino1]

Kinda, they are from bin containers and from the research ive seen others do, they could vary 20nm(or more) either way. not exactly what I think you're looking for.

Please visit GREENPINELANE.COM (DONT MENTION MJ) to see some experiments done there. they haven't used those exact panels but 5mm and has stepped up to the class 2s. seems to be doing better with them:D

not to mention that the one i got had broken wiring in the back. 1/3 panel didnt work till i took it apart and fixed it. now thats quality:thumbsup:

when you opened them what were those pieces clunking around in there. and more importantly, did you see any opportunities to install
an led driver??? because if you think there's enough room back there im gonna
order some and put them in, that way i can maximize brightness.

[SnSstealth]

when you opened them what were those pieces clunking around in there. and more importantly, did you see any opportunities to install
an led driver??? because if you think there's enough room back there im gonna
order some and put them in, that way i can maximize brightness.

lol... Its a 2"x4" board w/3 sets of drivers(?) each one wired to 1/3 of the panel. and yeah just hanging by the wires in there. im sure thats why mine is broke(havent soldered it but hilding the wire in place it works, again not using it).

if the driver is about a half inch slim you have half the panel space plus some on other side. opens easily no real issues there check it out

[maspino1]

my hopes and dreams have been dashed. k, well, what other places
would you recommend me trying out their led panels because the procyon-100
is just too expensive
well, hgl has driver driven currents on their 14w, would you recommend
them?

[Opie Yutts]

[quote=maspino1]the procyon-100
is just too expensive
[quote]

Normally you get what you pay for.

[SnSstealth]

couldnt have said it better opie..you get what you pay for man. the procyons have a warranty....ever buy a grow light with a warranty?...lol
:smokebong;
whiskeytango

[SnSstealth]

my hopes and dreams have been dashed. k, well, what other places
would you recommend me trying out their led panels because the procyon-100
is just too expensive
well, hgl has driver driven currents on their 14w, would you recommend
them?

while I wont tell anyone what to buy I believe the Procyons to be your best choice. This site has lots of testing including the 14 watt kit your looking at . seems to do well but he stops early due to the small coverage area.


June 26th - Conclusion of Tiny Tim grow test.

The Tiny Tim has grown well. Over a foot tall and almost 16 inches diameter. The blossoms and roots are in great shape. I decided to end the grow test here on the Tiny Tim as the point of the test was to see if the 14 Watt light kit lived up to the claims. In my opinion, it did excellent. Supporting one square foot of growth seemed no problem. In 29 days, the 1 1/2 inch seedling grew to adult size claimed for a Tiny Tim. At this time, I felt the plant had achieved the size that one of these kits would support, which is the claim of Homegrownlights.com. Summary - Great light, no problems, easy to mount, no special power requirements. It runs cool and no problem with the leaves being in direct contact with the light. It would be a great light for growing multiple seedlings for later transplanting or adding more kits to support larger grow areas would be easy to do. The kit does require soldering of the LEDs which is easy if you have soldering experience. However, Homegrownlights will sell the kits assembled. See Homegrownlights.com for all details and also mutiple light discounts. I recommend this light if it will meet your needs and it's used according to the manufacturers recommendations. Thanks to Ryan at Homegrownlights for the willingness to send a kit for this test. Note: The Tiny Tim was moved outside in the dirt to see what will happen on a transplant.

HGL is also working on a 14w cree xlamp model, which ill be very interested in using as supplement light(next grow!)not sure when it will come out though:(

Doughboy :bonghit:

[SnSstealth]

This site has lots of testing including the 14 watt kit your looking at .

lol...Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting (http://www.greenpinelane.com/default.aspx)

Doughboy :bonghit:

[maspino1]

you're right about getting what you paid for. where did you purchase your procyon btw

[Opie Yutts]

Man you guys, you should see the stuff I read last night. All about LED lighting and plants. Best nanometers, UVA and B, deep red, far red, infrared, why plants need white, green and yellow. All kinds of pertinent info. I'll see if I can link you later. Yes I said green. Led grow lights are so far off optimum it's ridiculous. Who wants to start a real horticultural LED light company with me? I got a couple grand I might be able to invest, and some business savvy.

[BobBong]

Led grow lights are so far off optimum it's ridiculous

H.I.D For the win. ;)

[Weedhound]

opie just send me the couple grand :D

[SnSstealth]

maspino1,

here's where we got them. probably a month out you'll have to ask

https://www.indooragriculture.com/index.php?main_page=index

Opie, Cant wait for the info we need something more to argue about:thumbsup: (j/k) send it on

Doughboy :smokin:

[Unknownfigure]

I have just got done reading every page in this thread, and I have to say, these lights do show some excellent potential. However, due to my natural bias against LED's for growing in general, I will remain slightly skeptical until the harvest, but I am open-minded. I will be following this log, and if the results are on par with HID/HPS yields and quality, I WILL look into incorporating these lights into a future grow. Money is not a problem, even though I don't have any most of the time, I'll leave that to some select investors. ;)


Good job Stealth on venturing where none of us have gone before. You have my full support in this operation, and I eagerly await the results and some more pics.


I do have a question, however, I'm not sure if I missed the answer in trying to read the pages as fast as I could... Are you going to be using C02 and extra mollasses supplements in hopes of maximizing quality of your harvest?

[SnSstealth]

yes unknown, we will be using CO2 and succanant......
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[SnSstealth]

ok...just wake and baked, and saw the ladies....soooo, i gotta share with ya:jointsmile:
first a date correction, we had sprouts on jan 27th. so we are about to go into the 3rd week of flowering. gotta say guys, im getting more optimistic here. we are on the 7th internode on about 15 of these plants at only 6-7in from the soil to tip. DEFINITELY no stretching....got one albino leaf to show ya, and one mutant plant im not sure should stay in the garden, need you guys help on this one. Does this scrawny lil guy have pot acne?...lol they are getting bigger now, so i threw in a couple pics in the room instead of pulling out...(heh) but look at our test subject, the first 2 pics...this is the same plant i show you guys most o the time. the one that had the stick and tape measure by it. bitch is GOING. 7th set of leaves, MAD side growth...and only61/2 in tall!!! pretty guuurl...heh well Im ripped, so enjoy,
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

second pic is trippy as hell huh? just used the flash in the grow room on our pretty test lady;)

[SnSstealth]

oh yeah, heres the sick one (i think) srawny as hell, with acne...should we keep it?
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[New2Dro]

Hey SnS, I have read allot on the subject of LED's and horticulture, and 9 out of 10 say more blue if not all blue for Veggie and Red or Mixed for flowering! I mean you no disrespect, cause those girls look great!!! â??Except the ugly duckling!â?� I was just wondering what your personal feelings were on the subject...:jointsmile:

[hatch]

Opie, What have I been Preachen the hole Thread? Except along with the (ultriviolet-white-),blue(-green-yellow-),orange-red, of our spectrum my have just a low percent, that percent is better add then never had? It can be low voltage, and still help not harm. ( Opie, I need to pm so you can tell me how to ?, I have them on a disc,Kodak web Printer, And MSN), But How the F"N do I get past there?? Well I geuss Never Mind about the pm I just asked YA. HEEEEHEE. Later

[Opie Yutts]

opie just send me the couple grand :D

And then you'll come up with the perfect LED grow array? And join me in a partnership, surpassing all other LED grow light companies, stocks split, our company featured on the cover of Time and Newsweek as the coolest company ever, millions of offers and opportunities and dollars just keep rolling in, we just sit back, sign checks, then take the afternoon off to get baked and play golf? I'm on it. What's your bank account number for the transfer? PayPal costs too much.

[Opie Yutts]

Money is not a problem, even though I don't have any most of the time, I'll leave that to some select investors.

So you know where to get the investors then. What's your bank account number for the transfer?

[Opie Yutts]

...got one albino leaf to show ya, and one mutant plant im not sure should stay in the garden, need you guys help on this one. Does this scrawny lil guy have pot acne?

Nope. It's just like back in the early 1980's, when the government was performing all those gamma ray tests on us. Remember? When all those babies were born with 3 elbows and an overall olive green color?

[Opie Yutts]

Hey SnS, I have read allot on the subject of LED's and horticulture, and 9 out of 10 say more blue if not all blue for Veggie and Red or Mixed for flowering! I mean you no disrespect, cause those girls look great!!! â??Except the ugly duckling!â?� I was just wondering what your personal feelings were on the subject...:jointsmile:

I tend to think more blue in veg is better, but not according to the stuff I read last night, at least for LED's they were saying just a little blue and mostly red for all stages except sprouting.

[SnSstealth]

Hey SnS, I have read allot on the subject of LED's and horticulture, and 9 out of 10 say more blue if not all blue for Veggie and Red or Mixed for flowering! I mean you no disrespect, cause those girls look great!!! â??Except the ugly duckling!â?� I was just wondering what your personal feelings were on the subject...:jointsmile:

Thanks Dro,

Well I dont know how much better they could be doing than they are right now. so i'd say thats probably wrong. they're on a 5:2 ratio now which aint even close. got 16 strong contenders out of 20 with approx 7 sets each, good undergrowth, and their third week starts Tuesday.

So much for experts I guess. (and their websites)...lol

Doughboy:smokin:

[Opie Yutts]

Hey SnS, here's some interesting stuff about red and far red light.

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/149268-concept-red-far-red-system-phytochrome-system.html#post1804939

[physicsnole]

I say if we can find high-powered class 2 LED's in IR (730nm) and UV-B (310-325nm) wavelengths, as well as 420nm,470nm,625nm,660nm,575nm, and make our own board, we will have a kickass LED growing light. I say make it approx 250-300 watts per light (ya thats like 2x the pyrocon).

[physicsnole]

bitch is GOING
Ya the plants look REALLY nice SnS. I think on some of your next grows you should experiment with IR and the whole Phytochrome FR and phytochrome R during flowering to reduce the nights. This is one advantage we can gain using LED's so I say if it helps, use it.

[Opie Yutts]

Red light is the most efficient monochromatic spectrum for plant growth. However, all the colors have functions. If a person were especially good at hearing bass sound, that means the other pitches should be emphasized, so that one could hear the whole melody. For light to be efficient for plant growth, it must be full spectrum with close to equal linearity and amplitude through the production of 400-700 nm, with a slight bump in the red.

One guys opinion, but real close to what I've been saying.

New Technology for Plant Lighting (http://www.hydro-techn.com/showcandle/NEWScan.html)

good reading

[SnSstealth]

Ya the plants look REALLY nice SnS. I think on some of your next grows you should experiment with IR and the whole Phytochrome FR and phytochrome R during flowering to reduce the nights. This is one advantage we can gain using LED's so I say if it helps, use it.

thanks nole, i am interested in this how would we go about regulating the process? Its easy enough to get a IR LED light for CCTV systems but I dont know any other variables i.e. how long and when to run them(and if those are the right IR spectrum). How is it we could reduce the nights? it could be a big risk to mess with lighting times on a whole grow so i'd have to have a separate chamber.


Opieyutts
Nope. It's just like back in the early 1980's, when the government was performing all those gamma ray tests on us. Remember? When all those babies were born with 3 elbows and an overall olive green color?

rofl nice one opie and keep the opinions coming it gets boring in here without them

Doughboy:smokin:

[hatch]

Physicsnole, Yes I have been researching from those exact nm. I have Many Componet's and order more every day!!!

MAN all the soldering and placement's of the group's.

Yes you are thinking in the right ball park. I'm using 10mm/four-way LED's/ with a mixing-spectrum program. Going to need a
robot, after all model's are stamp'd out.

Opie, Are you being (Felicitous), I know a invester!!! ME, MYSELF, and OH' YA, I. If you want to jump on the wagon, All-A'-Board!! Go check this out; (Way Down South, HATCH [email protected] . Don't Miss The Bus Guss!!. Later

[Mariusvlatkorova]

Damn SnSstealth those plants are looking good. How old are they?

[HelpingHand]

LED lighting is really great! Little expensive but is worth it in the long run. Check out the NEW FULL SPECTRUM LED GROW LIGHT it covers the same light growing spectrum as a HPS Lamp. www.UltraLEDLights.com
When I talked to them the said they would have them ready by the first of March. It will have the spectrum best for the flowering stage of growth.:thumbsup: I can't wait to try it, and I believe it will be less expensive than the UFO light and about 3 to 4 times larger. This type of lighting is getting better and better.

[physicsnole]

Check out the NEW FULL SPECTRUM LED GROW LIGHT it covers the same light growing spectrum as a HPS Lamp

This is exactly what we are trying to avoid. The spectrum from a HPS light is inefficient. With LED's we can choose the best wavelengths with the greatest efficiency, 420nm, 470nm, 640nm, 660nm, 730nm, and UV-B.

[physicsnole]

I'm using 10mm/four-way LED's/ with a mixing-spectrum program. Going to need a robot, after all model's are stamp'd out.

The way I was going to control the different colors and mixing programs was with a microcontroller. With a microcontroller you could have set certain output pins (there are 28 in mine and each output pin can be a series of LED's) that control the changing colors (changing voltage) on a set time frame, like a calender.

And why did you choose 10mm LED's? I found 5mm LED's to be pretty much the same brightness, however since 5mm are smaller you could have twice the LED's compared to 10mm. Just wondering. Also are you using drivers for the LED's?

[physicsnole]

thanks nole, i am interested in this how would we go about regulating the process? Its easy enough to get a IR LED light for CCTV systems but I dont know any other variables i.e. how long and when to run them(and if those are the right IR spectrum). How is it we could reduce the nights? it could be a big risk to mess with lighting times on a whole grow so i'd have to have a separate chamber.

Flower with shorter Nights

There are another pair of pigments involved in things here - phytochrome-R and Phytochrome-FR. Phyto-R is most sensitive at 660nm Red, while phyto-FR is most sensitive at about 730nm Far-Red, hence the R and FR naming (IE, JUST 735nm and very near wavelengths, but nothing under 710nm or so). With 735nm far-red/near-infrared emitters available then it's possible to flower cannabis with 15 hours 'daylight'. How? Why? Well, the plant senses that critical 12-hours-darkness that triggers flowering in cannabis because a critical amount of phytochrome-FR has slowly, naturally, reverted to phytochrome-R during the dark cycle. But during the 'day' 660nm red light converts the phyto-R into phyto-FR, while far-red 735nm light more slowly converts the phyto-FR back to phyto-R. So we run all lights for 15 hours, then run nothing but 735nm for another two hours and finally 7 hours darkness.- artificially driving much of the phyto-FR back to phyto-R without waiting 12 hours for the natural reversion- so you can actually flower with shorter nights.

That's 30% more light per day reaching the plant, the result is that we can pump 25%-30% more energy into the plant each day - that means 25%-30% more growth - during the flowering cycle. Pushing even longer is probably possible, with sufficient intensity of 735nm alone during some portion of the 'dark' cycle. Several experiments have already documented this effect.