Ethics/911/The butterfly effect/Etc.

Some ideas come in a flash of inspiration, others evolve over long periods. I guess it depends on where you're standing when the shell hits. Unpredictable, in other words. You may ask; "Why here, why now?" I can only say, "Why not?"

If this thread develops, it might prove to be long, deep, and, maybe controversial. If not, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

In essence, I'm saying that we're not very well tuned in to the consequences of our actions, and that the corollary might be something of an answer. It's been just over 5 years since the planes hit the buildings, and the killing has intensified; nobody has learned a thing. All sides, not just us/them, good guys/bad guys, and so on, but everybody.

Having today said something I've said may times in the past, that there must be something really wrong with society if we can't even cooperate for the most basic of reasons; self interest, a switch sort of clicked in my head. I think that the cause and effect of individual actions and beliefs have a huge cumulative result in the state of our existence. Like skimming a penny from each of several million bank accounts, if you will. Let somebody merge with the traffic, or cut them off, verbalize an insult, or keep our mouths shut, etc.

I've no intention of getting into detail here, that would depend on the interest generated. But think for a moment, what would your life be like if the majority of us refused to contribute to the tension that ultimately results in a punch thrown in anger, a bit of road rage, a nuclear weapon being launched? How would you feel if nobody cared much if you got stoned today or not; live and let live in the simplest terms?

I'm thinking what that idiot pope said the other day, about the moslem philosophy, and wonder how soon the whole thing will come crashing down just because we all were too stupid to see that every action, no matter how small, truly results in a reaction.

Feel free to nail me to a tree, ignore me, or agree and discuss this.

4252

Hmmm, didn't think so.

Arriva derla,

42

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Physics 101

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to get across with this post, but you're right that no one in this ignorant society every learns anything. This issue, or issues, with the extreamist Muslims could be settled in such a more simple way than what's going on now. The muslims simply feel supressed and are pissed off. They feel like everyone's becoming their enemy and they're getting so wound up that they feel the need to retaliate and fight.

If no one cared what I did, if no one cared about anything but their own self interest, things would have the possibility to become so much better. There wouldn't be so much hatred and senseless descrimination because everyone would be too busy dealing with their own lives to shout out and hate someone else who simply believes, dressed, looks, or acts different.

And the pope? The Pope was an idiot for that comment. Has he appologized yet?

To my knowledge, what he's said was that he and/or the quote was misunderstood. That didn't help John Lennon much either, as I recall.

My opinion is that, consistent with the "glass houses" principle, this rookie pope shouldn't even be trusted with a bag of marshmallows, if this is his way of addressing the issues. More than enough rhetoric has been added to fuel this particular fire. If my limited knowledge of history tells me anything, the actions of Christians, Catholics especially, and their (our, actually) leaders have contributed a lot to the present situation.

The other part, about the cumulative effect of small, hateful actions, was basically a more general statement, but I thought it fit well into my comment on the specific controversy as a sort of prologue.

4252

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4252

I'm thinking what that idiot pope said the other day, about the moslem philosophy, and wonder how soon the whole thing will come crashing down just because we all were too stupid to see that every action, no matter how small, truly results in a reaction.

---

I'm not a Catholic, or any religious apologist, but the Pope/Dude wasn't stating a personal view on Muslim beliefs. But he did wimp out. He should've challenged Muslim extremists on their inability to lighten up.

What the Muslim world needs is a "Life of Brian" sort of film about Muhammad. After all, the cartoons didn't work....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4252

To my knowledge, what he's said was that he and/or the quote was misunderstood. That didn't help John Lennon much either, as I recall.

My opinion is that, consistent with the "glass houses" principle, this rookie pope shouldn't even be trusted with a bag of marshmallows, if this is his way of addressing the issues. More than enough rhetoric has been added to fuel this particular fire. If my limited knowledge of history tells me anything, the actions of Christians, Catholics especially, and their (our, actually) leaders have contributed a lot to the present situation.

The other part, about the cumulative effect of small, hateful actions, was basically a more general statement, but I thought it fit well into my comment on the specific controversy as a sort of prologue.

4252

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Jon Lenenon? Please.....Could you be more Liberal.


Pope...Sir, we are with YOU (All us Catholics), and we will fight to the death for you. Just Say it like it is, and we Got your Back.

Glass house.....We are affraid to through stones cause we might offend someone. Political Correctness, along with America Hating, Leftwing, commie, Nuts jobs will be our Demise.

War ON Terror? Fuck that..... Say "War ON Radical Islam". Rolls off the tounge nice HUH?

Just say it how it is.

Illegal imaration, Is bad for the country, In many ways including, language barrier, Refusal of asimalation, Pull on Social services.

See I just said IT..

once you BIG SHOTS with the BIG vocabulary figure out WTF is going on, you can write all kinds off smart shit worth reading.


Now it is Just PC Bullshit.


Or you cant see what is going on through all the hate, for Bush, America, Free market system, and so on.

Starts with your hate for BUsh Cause you Voted For Kerry........Build a bridge and get over it.


WE WENT INTO IRAQ TO FIGHT RADICAL ISLAM.....see it was easy.


Say it a couple of times.........fuck the WMDs we know he had them, ask the Iranians......

THEY DETONATE, ANY NUKES HERE.....WE NUKE MEECA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bong30

Jon Lenenon? Please.....Could you be more Liberal.


Pope...Sir, we are with YOU (All us Catholics), and we will fight to the death for you. Just Say it like it is, and we Got your Back.

Glass house.....We are affraid to through stones cause we might offend someone. Political Correctness, along with America Hating, Leftwing, commie, Nuts jobs will be our Demise.

War ON Terror? Fuck that..... Say "War ON Radical Islam". Rolls off the tounge nice HUH?

Just say it how it is.

Illegal imaration, Is bad for the country, In many ways including, language barrier, Refusal of asimalation, Pull on Social services.

See I just said IT..

once you BIG SHOTS with the BIG vocabulary figure out WTF is going on, you can write all kinds off smart shit worth reading.


Now it is Just PC Bullshit.


Or you cant see what is going on through all the hate, for Bush, America, Free market system, and so on.

Starts with your hate for BUsh Cause you Voted For Kerry........Build a bridge and get over it.


WE WENT INTO IRAQ TO FIGHT RADICAL ISLAM.....see it was easy.


Say it a couple of times.........fuck the WMDs we know he had them, ask the Iranians......

THEY DETONATE, ANY NUKES HERE.....WE NUKE MEECA.

---

Love your fellow mankind. Love your neighbor. Who pick up the sword will die by it. This is what Jesus tought and then look how you act! Your following Babylon into distruction. All religions that don't practice peace and permote distruction will be distroyed. STOP PUTTING YOUR FAITH IN MANKIND. How can you claim such things Bring peace? The USA is Makeing more terrorests WAR BRINGS WAR! We need to show Love. Faith in mankind has got us here.

It's Fact Sadam didn't do 9/11 so you need to find out who is doing these things and stop just pointing fingers. ( IT'S CALLED AN INVESTAGATION)

GREED has crupted the system you trust DON'T blindly follow HATE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bong30

Jon Lenenon? Please.....Could you be more Liberal.


Pope...Sir, we are with YOU (All us Catholics), and we will fight to the death for you. Just Say it like it is, and we Got your Back.

Glass house.....We are affraid to through stones cause we might offend someone. Political Correctness, along with America Hating, Leftwing, commie, Nuts jobs will be our Demise.

War ON Terror? Fuck that..... Say "War ON Radical Islam". Rolls off the tounge nice HUH?

Just say it how it is.

Illegal imaration, Is bad for the country, In many ways including, language barrier, Refusal of asimalation, Pull on Social services.

See I just said IT..

once you BIG SHOTS with the BIG vocabulary figure out WTF is going on, you can write all kinds off smart shit worth reading.


Now it is Just PC Bullshit.


Or you cant see what is going on through all the hate, for Bush, America, Free market system, and so on.

Starts with your hate for BUsh Cause you Voted For Kerry........Build a bridge and get over it.


WE WENT INTO IRAQ TO FIGHT RADICAL ISLAM.....see it was easy.


Say it a couple of times.........fuck the WMDs we know he had them, ask the Iranians......

THEY DETONATE, ANY NUKES HERE.....WE NUKE MEECA.

---

Nutjob IMO

I don't give a fuck if Bush or Kerry is in charge this whole war on terror is propoganda BS and I think the topic of this has been hijacked by Christian Fundamentalist BS merchants.

On topic
The knock on effect of our actions can be likened to dropping rocks into a pool the ripples spread and collide creating chaos,the ripples are comparative to what caused them, (a larger object = bigger ripples) because of this major events have a more widespread effect, however even the smallest ripple alters the dynamics of the larger one.
Butterfly effect is simply a protruded explanation of something so logical.

We all have the capability to be better people however I don't think we will ever find a cure for greed or stupidity or any of the things that make people choose to be arseholes.

How was the ripple...after we nuked Japan?


Hummmm I drive 2 japanesse Cars....IE great trading partner now.


I have not seen any kamakazee....Have you guys? I just see fucked up JIHAD nut jobs.



YOU are wrong we need to make a BIGGER ripple.

Political correcness and fighting WARS with one arm tied behind our back is BULLSHIT...ie Viet Nam, Iraq...Blah Blah

The effects of the nukes America is so proud of (sick IMO) are still being felt today in Japan.
The effects of testing in the US with GIs far too close is also a skeleton America would rather see remain in it's closet.

Please don't try to bullshit as I find it tiresome to have to keep pointing out flaws in peoples logic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

The effects of the nukes America is so proud of (sick IMO) are still being felt today in Japan.
The effects of testing in the US with GIs far too close is also a skeleton America would rather see remain in it's closet.
Please don't try to bullshit as I find it tiresome to have to keep pointing out flaws in peoples logic.

---

The war was shortened after the A-Bombs were dropped. That was the only way to make the Japs surrender. They didn't give up after the first one, so we had to go back and give them another taste.

the march of satan... hey BA go back to waterboarding suspects who could be inocent, We are makeing reasons to hate USA stop your Hate

I agree, BA, and I'm not proud of having used nuclear weapons. It was that or suffer 1M dead GIs in a land invasion of Japan.

I'm fond of "Mutully Assured Destruction". It's a brilliant way to keep large armies from invading one another...

Bong, you're wrong about Vietnam and Iraq... both were/are moral and practical failures. And the one arm tied behind the back in Iraq was all Rumsfeld... he bullied his agenda for a quick war through the pentagon, not even considering the prevailing military wisdom of using overwhelming force.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by graymatter

I agree, BA, and I'm not proud of having used nuclear weapons. It was that or suffer 1M dead GIs in a land invasion of Japan.

I'm fond of "Mutully Assured Destruction". It's a brilliant way to keep large armies from invading one another...

Bong, you're wrong about Vietnam and Iraq... both were/are moral and practical failures. And the one arm tied behind the back in Iraq was all Rumsfeld... he bullied his agenda for a quick war through the pentagon, not even considering the prevailing military wisdom of using overwhelming force.

---

I have been saying MAD in about 10 threads...thanks for selecting just Bullshit to point out.

How was I wrong? Iraq.....was done totally wrong. Rumsfeld can fuck off. He is an Idiot.

My view is they need Iraq...To keep Iran from turing the whole area back into ancient Pursia.

Ill go slow

Saddam was a sunni.... he kept the Fucking Radical piece of shit Shite at Bay...... He "Saddam" was not good, but better than Iraq Now....

Iraq could be a Place where Shite and sunni could live with Jews and Catholics all together....... But, There minds are too small. They (iraqi People) cant see the big picture. Under Saddam it would have Never been a Place of Peace....

DO YOU GUYS FORGET KUWAIT? SADDAM IS STABLE?????...STFU

During BUsh 1, Schwarzkopf was told NOT to March and take Bagdad, we left them with about 20% of there Milatary. Just enough to Keep Iran at Bay.

This is where, one place... Osama Bin Laden drew his hate for us...USA soldiers on Saudi Arabia Land....give me a fucking break. You should be able to wear a slayer shirt to Mecca.....Fuck Mecca.

The Insurgents are......drum roll please......are the Iraqi people. 10% -20% are from outside the country.

The rest are Regular Radical Muslims who just want us dead, Now, Later Yesterday, tomarrow.

Even If we didnt Go into Iraq.....Radical Muslims...(See friday prayers in IRAN)
Would have Brought hate and death to the west.

NOw we Need to end this Bullshit.

Shall I go into the 12th Imam? NO.... Just Digest above for a while.:thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bong30

I have been saying MAD in about 10 threads...thanks for selecting just Bullshit to point out.

How was I wrong? Iraq.....was done totally wrong. Rumsfeld can fuck off. He is an Idiot.

My view is they need Iraq...To keep Iran from turing the whole area back into ancient Pursia.

Ill go slow

Saddam was a sunni.... he kept the Fucking Radical piece of shit Shite at Bay...... He "Saddam" was not good, but better than Iraq Now....

Iraq could be a Place where Shite and sunni could live with Jews and Catholics all together....... But, There minds are too small. They (iraqi People) cant see the big picture. Under Saddam it would have Never been a Place of Peace....

DO YOU GUYS FORGET KUWAIT? SADDAM IS STABLE?????...STFU

During BUsh 1, Schwarzkopf was told NOT to March and take Bagdad, we left them with about 20% of there Milatary. Just enough to Keep Iran at Bay.

This is where, one place... Osama Bin Laden drew his hate for us...USA soldiers on Saudi Arabia Land....give me a fucking break. You should be able to wear a slayer shirt to Mecca.....Fuck Mecca.

The Insurgents are......drum roll please......are the Iraqi people. 10% -20% are from outside the country.

The rest are Regular Radical Muslims who just want us dead, Now, Later Yesterday, tomarrow.

Even If we didnt Go into Iraq.....Radical Muslims...(See friday prayers in IRAN)
Would have Brought hate and death to the west.

NOw we Need to end this Bullshit.

Shall I go into the 12th Imam? NO.... Just Digest above for a while.:thumbsup:

---

Thanks, Bong, I'll take ancient Persia over WHATEVER THE FUCK the west has to offer the middle east.

BTW My thoughts on MAD are my own... don't get pedantic with me.

Whassup, Gray, baby? You still over here arguing with the bombasts? I'm taking a new approach, singing a new tune on that. Gotta stick with the intellectual, unemotional debaters, I've decided. There's not really any rationality with the others. You're a brave and tolerant man!

Gray why dont you Take your academic ass to Iran and fight for it.


Your MAD thoughts are your own.....Just when I post about MAD you say nothing.....BUT all of a sudden. You think a light went above your head.....




OHHH Yeah I will say Fuck any time I like...I dont fucking care what you think about me.

I would rather be My kind of smart, than your kind of Stupid.


Do you ever wonder what im thinking? I might miss spell some words and I like to space out my thoughts so it is easy to read, but am I communicating my point effectivly.

See gray I have Deep Layers of thoughs in My head, and I have Never in My whole life have been able to put those into words, on paper...yes even in college.



BG... I have enough emotion for all of US, when Is it going to spill out?
My Job BG is to Protect my family. So I get pissed when Radical Piece of shit Muslims want to end life the way I know it...not as much for me, but my kids.

Illegal imamgration is the other hot topic for me.

So is child molestation, Health Care, Social Security....Family related stuff

So now im over trying to be the person that doest cuss or say anything that Is unPC.

Fuck it im done.

So you might just want to put me on Ignore.

Wow! I've been away for a while; I posted this same topic on another forum, and the discussion opened a floodgate, as they say.

I appreciate the responses here; and I don't think anybody's completely right or wrong. A few points;

1. I'm no historian, so I don't know who started this. I wasn't there during the Crusades, etc. So, I'm going by today's events. The Moslems chose to kill innocent women, children, and so on with sneak attacks and suicide bombers. We (the Christian West) may not have strapped bombs to ourselves and gone down to the local mosque, but we have our own methods of pissing people off. So, no protestations of complete innocence, please.
2. We must defend ourselves, no choice in the matter. I'm no martyr either.
3. The Pope is new on the job, and I think he should have kept his mouth shut about the nature of Islam. They're apparently crazy enough to use a derogatory cartoon for an excuse to kill. If somebody drew a picture of Jesus wearing a turban shaped like a bomb, I'd question their historical accuracy, but wouldn't be interested in killing them. Only a true nutcase would have that kind of response. Anybody who'd stick his foot in his mouth like that, knowing full well that it wouldn't serve any purpose other than to inflame the emotions of already unstable people should go back and take Common Sense 101 again. He obviously didn't learn anything the first time. We don't need one more big mouth adding to the chaos, we need better armor on our vehicles.
4. This is as real a war as it gets. It's funny, but the word genocide hasn't been used much so far. I think that's what they have in mind for us.

and finally;

5. If the majority of the Islamic people were really peacefull nice warm fuzzy types, they'd at least be criticizing their extremists, maybe even trying to make them back off in the intrest of sanity, instead of dancing in the streets when our guys get killed, letting the "minority" of criminals in their midst get away with the shit their doing, and generally not doing much to convince us they give a damn about the sanctity of life and the rights of others to pursue their (different) religious beliefs. If that's true of Islam; Fuck Allah, Fuck Mohammed, and Fuck the Middle East altogether.

Oh, and Fuck any organized, militant, agressive religions, who've twisted their doctrines to meet their immediate needs as well; ours too. That's the root of the problem anyway. Did Jesus say to oppose every non-believer, or did he say to love one another?

4252

how wise all we can do is listion to jesus and know that SATAN's system of things will distroy it self, do not give into hate and love your neighbor. Pratice peace and know God will bring about Peace not MANKIND

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krogith

how wise all we can do is listion to jesus and know that SATAN's system of things will distroy it self, do not give into hate and love your neighbor. Pratice peace and know God will bring about Peace not MANKIND

---

I am not going to "love" bin laden, and his ilk I would kill that bastard in a heartbeat. They are NOT my "neighbors". Fuck your mythical Jesus, and fuck anybody else that lets subhuman scum get away with genocide. It's not a question of "hate": it's the only rational response to criminals who use their religion to foster anti-human agendas.

people are people we are all a HUMAN race what would bring about peace is peace not distruction. We have to love our neighbors and try to understand there side do not blind your self. seeing something from one view will always seem unjust, perspective is looking at life from differnt views and understanding. If the world felt that the USA were real peace keepers then we would bring peace but we are killing people with bombs and in a war agenst a country that did nothing to us. that situation is going to bring hate to the USA. we have no right over turning powers and ruleing than anyone else we are all humans and should be ruled under GOD,to bad adam and eve lost that and now we have a world of hate proveing that HUMANS can NOT run them selfs. Jesus tought to be kind and a peaceful person and that was the way of Jehovah god, not to kill one another, what does that gain? Distruction and death.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bong30

Gray why dont you Take your academic ass to Iran and fight for it.


Your MAD thoughts are your own.....Just when I post about MAD you say nothing.....BUT all of a sudden. You think a light went above your head.....




OHHH Yeah I will say Fuck any time I like...I dont fucking care what you think about me.

I would rather be My kind of smart, than your kind of Stupid.


Do you ever wonder what im thinking? I might miss spell some words and I like to space out my thoughts so it is easy to read, but am I communicating my point effectivly.

See gray I have Deep Layers of thoughs in My head, and I have Never in My whole life have been able to put those into words, on paper...yes even in college.



BG... I have enough emotion for all of US, when Is it going to spill out?
My Job BG is to Protect my family. So I get pissed when Radical Piece of shit Muslims want to end life the way I know it...not as much for me, but my kids.

Illegal imamgration is the other hot topic for me.

So is child molestation, Health Care, Social Security....Family related stuff

So now im over trying to be the person that doest cuss or say anything that Is unPC.

Fuck it im done.

So you might just want to put me on Ignore.

---

Interesting post, Bong. I actually like some of your "broad strokes". I don't agree with all of them. However, you do make your points. But I didn't just roll off the turnip truck. I've seen a lot of the world and it wasn't always under "tourist like" conditions. I found that respect for people and interest in what they had to say closed the cultural gaps. Since you decide to give feedback (not sure how constructive it is), I'll give you some. You have no idea what I beleive in because you don't care to really know. You make that clear by coming at me personally. If you talked that shit to my face I'd punch you in the head. How's that for "academic?"

Bong, I won't put you on ignore because I don't want to ignore someone I consider a friend. You just happen to be a friend I will never agree with politically. Of all topics, politics requires rational, considered thought. That's the mode in which thinking people must function and debate because rational arguments illustrate actual thought rather than surface one-line, angry emotional reactions. It's terribly easy to borrow other angry people's words like "Liberalism is a mental disorder" or "Screw PC" (my edited version of the F word) or even "We went to Iraq to fight radical Islam." Again, those are the easy, one-liner, feel-good short-and-simple things to say.

What's much harder, requiring far more time and intellectual power, is to examine two or more sides of these issues. To ponder why, if liberalism is such a troubling scourge, so many intelligent conservative Republicans, moderates, libertarians and others also find the justification for this war dishonest. Why our current administration and its Middle East policy has a 72% disapproval rating. Why attempting to inflict democracy on a a part of the world that has never had--and with its tribal, warring history--will never accept it is a futile effort. Why those who tell themselves and others we're simply fighting for freedom in the ME and other parts of the world have precious little understanding of the relationship between democracies (the minority political system, in case you don't realize this) and countries with vastly less free political systems (the significant majority). Why we're not going to triumph good over evil or freedom over repression--and why we're only making the our future outlook more bloody than it was before by lying to ourselves and attempting to do so.

The list goes on and on. But these are the matters that have to be considered and discussed. And that's why rational, reasoned debate is much harder than the easy emotional response. The folks who're willing to work hard at thinking about and discussing these topics--and who do so courteously and with respect (you can call it PC if you prefer; I know that's actually Michael Savage talking)--are the ones who're going to make progress on these issues. They're the ones I happily engage in discussion.

OK, enough of this nonsense. On a lighter note:

Day in the Life of Joe Middle-Class Republican
By John Gray Cincinnati, Ohio - - July - 2004

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joeâ??s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joeâ??s employer pays these standards because Joeâ??s employer doesnâ??t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed heâ??ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didnâ??t think he should loose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joeâ??s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joeâ??s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards.

He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didnâ??t want to make rural loans. The house didnâ??t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didnâ??t belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldnâ??t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show, the hostâ??s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesnâ??t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day) Joe agrees, â??We donâ??t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, Iâ??m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I haveâ?�.

You really shouldn't be punching people in the head greymatter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jake Martinez

All you conservative folk still believe Liberalism is a mental disorder?

---

Well, I didn't write this either, but here's a humorous take on it from the other side. :thumbsup:

A Day in the Life of Joe Liberal

Joe has to get up every day at 6 a.m. to pay "his share" of taxes to support deadbeats and illegal immigrants who take from the system without ever contributing. Such is Marx's maxim: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Joe is a rotten American because he fills his coffeepot with American capitalist corporation name brand coffee rather than going to weekly co-op meeting to buy fair trade coffee from socialist nations.

Joe rinses the pot with tap water and then twists off the top of a plastic bottle of water to rinse the taste of oppression from his mouth.

Joe takes his meds. He's gotta. He is overwrought with guilt over living in the nation's chief consumer of EVERYTHING in the world. Joe's has so much while everyone else has nothing. This is Joe's fault. Don't blame the dictators in those other countries who have their populace under their thumbs.

Joe's medications are available over the counter and as such can be deducted from his taxes but he would have to do a lot of paperwork so he bears the extra cost; besides the gub'ment needs that money more than Joe does. If Ted Kennedy wouldn't keep blocking personal medical savings accounts, Joe could bank up pre-tax dollars for his own medical care. But Teddy is wiser than Joe and knows that Joe would just be doing this as a way of exploiting the tax codes to avoid paying his "fair share".

Joe fondly remembers the breakfasts of his youth; bacon and eggs made fresh by his mother and grandmother. But Joe knows that he cannot have cholesterol today. He's been branded as OBSESE because his Body Mass Index is not as low as his wife's, who has the same height as Joe. The BMI does not tolerate sexism and makes no distinction between fat and muscle. So Joe has an eggbeaters and tofu omelet.


In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His shampoo does not harm his eyes because it has been lab tested on live animals. As Joe steps out of the shower, he notices a floater still circling in his toilet; damn low flow toilets. Gotta flush them twice to do half the job of an old throne.

Joe dresses is a pretty pink spring dress; Joe is a transvestite and he likes to share his fetish with his co-workers. It's who Joe is. A confused man who wished he'd been born into a world that did not designate one garment for men, and another for women.

Joe takes a good look at his SUV and notices that some eco-terrorist has set it aflame overnight. "But that's free speech...", chuckles Joe and silently thanks the ACLU for preserving the 1st Amendment.

Joe walks two miles to the nearest bus stop and breaks a sweat. "Whew!" He notices there is no bench for passengers to wait on. Some homeless person might sleep there so the city did away with them. He tried reading some of the graffiti to pass the time but cannot make out any of the urban runes. 30 minutes have now passed and he hopes that his boss will understand that he is late because someone "freely expressed" herself in his driveway last night. Joe would call his boss but he cannot because there are no payphones around anymore. And why would there be? "Everyone" has a cellphone now, especially children. Joe waits another 30 lonely minutes and pulls out a cigarette. Joe doesn't normally smoke but felt it was his civic duty to buy them as a way to subsidize farmers, and pay more taxes. Joe's ruse works. A bus pulls up and Joe gets on it. He waves to the other two passenger, neither of whom look up.

Joe arrives at work 2 hours late but still eager to do a good job. Joe works in public service so he knows that his job is safe and that he won't be fired for poor work ethic.

It's noontime and Joe runs out to buy some lottery tickets. He's never won in the past but "this time" he feels lucky and could really use the money. And he knows that it promises to one day give him something in return for paying a voluntary tax.

Joe gives the clerk a hundred dollar bill. The clerk eyes Joe suspiciously and asks him to present photo ID, "What do you think this is? Some election poll where you can just show up, tell us who you are, and get what you came for???"

It's a good thing that clerk asked Joe for some ID too. Turns out that hundred dollar bill was a forgery. "But I got it from a Hezbollah charity when I was visiting some pen pals in Lebanon...", exclaimed Joe.

Joe is hauled away by the police. The next morning he makes bail and is released...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hamlet

You really shouldn't be punching people in the head greymatter.

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True.

...and it wouldn't kill ya to say 'thank you' to the toll booth operator every now and then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hamlet

...and it wouldn't kill ya to say 'thank you' to the toll booth operator every now and then.

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I know, and I'm torn lately over how to fairly distribute my "thank yous" between the EZpass lanes and the Operator lanes....

Hey, BA, great JOE LIBERAL piece!

In Dallas, the way we say thank-you in the EZpass (here it's a Tolltag) lanes is by not breaking the sound barrier as we come though them . . . .

That was a nice Joe Liberal piece, Breuk!

How fast have you gone? My girlfriend clocked me at ~ 39 mph once...

I think we're supposed to slow down to 40, unless I'm mistaken and it's really 30.

I slow down. I was kidding about the sound barrier, altough there are fools who seem to attempt that, and I've seen attendants practically blown a foot or two over from the wake when they're already over in the booth lanes to begin with. I don't become one of those plodding grandmas. But I am careful. Comes from having worked those years as a paramedic. It just makes you slow down because you have such vivid images of people and cars who didn't. Yowzah!

I can appreciate that... got to admit, pushing near 40 was enough for me... but we were actually conducting the "how fast do you have to go before you don't get the 'GO EZpass' light" experiment...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by graymatter

I can appreciate that... got to admit, pushing near 40 was enough for me... but we were actually conducting the "how fast do you have to go before you don't get the 'GO EZpass' light" experiment...

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I'm familiar with that game myself! It's a fun one. Before the Tolltag lanes down here existed, the earlier version of that game was to throw the quarters into the exact-change-only basket (you need a completely clear lane and path ahead for this) and try to get through the light before the money fell through and changed the light from red to green. You really had to move fast. And have good, guick, left-handed aim with quarters.

What enviable recreational lives we lead, Gray!

Do you see what I do?

The "how fast have you gone through a toll booth" thread...