quantum mechanics and god

The observer effect and its significance......

The observer effect is when the act of observing changes that which is being observed.... if you observe a particle you will change its path....and therefore in quantum mechanics, if the outcome of an event has not been observed, it exists in a state of superposition...ie. It exists in all possible states at once......

Now this raises the truly mind blowing question - that at the quantum level do all events have to be observed in order to exist? maybe the universe needs to be watched.....but by who?

this is my favorite scientific experiment....and the best truly scientific justification for the existance of god i can think of.....
:) :) :)

Nope. Particles at the quantum level have their paths altered by observation because observation requires a reflection of light particles off the observed particle and into the eye. The light particle which strikes the observed subatomic particle alters it's course by hitting it and coming back to you, thus allowing you to observe it, but does not determine the very notion of it having a course in the first place.

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

Particles at the quantum level have their paths altered by observation because observation requires a reflection of light particles off the observed particle and into the eye. The light particle which strikes the observed subatomic particle alters it's course by hitting it and coming back to you, thus allowing you to observe it, but does not determine the very notion of it having a course in the first place.

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i've read ur post a few times and my brain hurts :) :) :)
surely light particles would be hitting the particle regardless of whether or not u were looking at it - and if u did look at it then u'd be utilising those same light particles....no?? quantum stuff is really weird.....
my other favorite experiment is the entanglement one where they entangle then seperate particles - but they remain connected so changes to one effect the other.....that's pretty hard to understand too - almost as though they share a "consiousness" - so one is aware of what the other is doing....

stranger than fiction :)

Yep, light particles do hit everything, but subatomic particles exist in extremely high numbers which gather together to create a force field, that field making an atom. The light hits atoms, but not the individual subatomic particles unless they are directly targetted.

On the other hand, I didn't get a wink of sleep last night and I've been extremely foggy headed and grouchy today. Maybe it's best not to listen to me today, I'll probably wake up tomorrow, read this, and say "what the hell was I saying?" lol.

well that kinda makes sense....:) :)

any views on entanglement and "awareness" on a subatomic level? i like how that fits into ideas of reincarnation - when you die all the atoms are "recycled" back into the universe....and will go on to form parts of other life at some point in the future....if atoms carry elements of self-awareness then the whole universe is effectively one giant shared conciousness.....maybe......:) :) :)

the higgs field is another interesting theory for scientists (and theologists).....

you have a postulated field which permeates the whole of space time..... Without the higgs field no particles would have any mass.... and it's this field therefore that makes the universe possible....

something which is omnipresent and without which the universe could not exist.....hmmm sounds familiar :) :)

come on guys - how can quantum mechanics not get your juices flowing? - Look - it's got a 5 star rating and everything :) :) :)

A little more information on quantum entangement - this stuff's gonna change the world :)

Quantum entanglement at its simplest is taking two particles, combining them (don't ask me how....) and then seperating them.....

now here's the remarkable part - you can move one of these particles to Texas, and the other to New York....as far away as you like.....

and.....if you make the particle in Texas spin clockwise - the one in New York will start to do the same......

wow! you can create a bond between particles.....whatever you want to call it - telepathy, shared conciousness, awareness - that's pretty amazing.

now.....you might be asking, "so what?" - but this ability gives quantum computers massive computing potential - so much so that when one is finally built, it will be able to work certain calculations out billions of times faster than at present....which will revolutionise, well, computing, research, crypotology and AI development amoungst others....
Even more interesting is the potential for quantum teleportation....now this has already been acheived for particles of light using quantum entanglement....its just a case of whether bigger things can also be teleported....its a long way off being able teleport a human (not least because the "original" copy is destroyed along the way and replaced with a clone) but still one day it could be feasible....

quantum entanglement raises so many fundamental questions to existence - such as what does it mean to exist? If an object is simultaneously cloned as the original is destroyed, is it the same as it was before??

Plus of course ideas on shared conciousness on a subatomic level are pretty theologically significant....

Hmm, what if particles at the quantum level are predicatable? We just gotta figure it out. I'm thinking maybe creating a huge program that would take every aspect into concideration and annalyze the data. Doing thousands of trials and taking all possible velocities and acclerations from 0 to the speed of light.

And then again, what if there is life in the particles like on earth? And we are just zapping them every time we reflect the light... We'd be mass murderers.

If we figure this out can we let the cat out of the box? Poor thing must be lonely.

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Originally Posted by andyandy

The observer effect and its significance......

The observer effect is when the act of observing changes that which is being observed.... if you observe a particle you will change its path....and therefore in quantum mechanics, if the outcome of an event has not been observed, it exists in a state of superposition...ie. It exists in all possible states at once......

Now this raises the truly mind blowing question - that at the quantum level do all events have to be observed in order to exist? maybe the universe needs to be watched.....but by who?

this is my favorite scientific experiment....and the best truly scientific justification for the existance of god i can think of.....
:) :) :)

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In order for us to observe, we have to take up space, and our gravitaional field effects the reality we are observing!

Also, if these particales are governed by Gravity, what is Gravity?
And how does one observe it, if it is unseen?

I also believe gravity moves faster than light, in order to capture it, and bend it...and consume it!
I believe we can be tricked by light acting in a pattern..just because things seem to follow a set of instructions, doesn't mean they are true!

whee!

Are you riding the bike or is the bike riding you?

I have no idea what u guys are saying but try this one:

As an object aproaches the speed of light, light will bend around that object (Specialized theory of relativity, A. Einstein). So as you travel faster than the speed of light, you are not seeing light but the path that light travels, iow the 'history' of the light (general theory of relativity, A. Einstein).

So theoretically(sp) if you travel faster than the speed of light you will actually begin to see everything around you as it was when light reflected off that object at that particular point in time.

Confused? Try this:

If you travel faster than the speed of light, you will be seeing events that already happened - you will be seeing the past. So time travel is 'possible' to a certain degree (theoretically, of course). Descartes' theory of 'I think, therefore I am' states that if you can see, touch, smell or even think of an idea, that idea must exist at some point in time and space - this leaves the theory open to the suggestion that every possible event will happen at some point in space and time. This opens the theory further to suggest that there are multiple realites.

So before your brain explodes I'll finish my argument.

If you travel faster than the speed of light and you are seeing events of the past, those events now exist in present time as well as past, which means that you should be able to manipulate the events of the past which are actually in the present. So if you change something in the 'present past', will it affect the 'past past' as it is the same thing?

(Try work it out when you're stoned)

what you're missing is that there is no "past". Time is an illusion. And secondly, to get a somewhat accurate idea of how time travel would actually work watch the most recent Harry Potter movie (I know, I know....) but all jokes aside, the way it's portrayed in the movie is actually theoretically correct.

Didn't some guy prove mathematically that you can't travel faster than light? I know on one of these threads that one guy said gravity can go faster than light. I honestly don't know any of this stuff. But I would guess that if gravity can go faster than light then anti-gravity would be the only way. Isn't the US government working on that? I dunno if I'm saying the obvious but if you can change gravity, then there is no reason you can't negatively accelerate to the velocity of infinite. If you were to reach such a velocity you'd be colliding with light faster then it can land on any object. What happens when you are moving away from a sun? You'd be colliding with light from a whole new angle. You'd be subject to mass amounts of heat. Now that would be cool, or rather hot. If you were to absorb that heat and turn it to energy on contact, what would happen next? Would you explode from having the energy of every sun? Will you be able to go thru matter. Would suck to run into a sun but I guess if you are going at the velocity of infinity then it wouldn't matter so much. You can destroy the entire universe by crashing into it instantaniously. Perhaps by doing so you can become a sun.

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Originally Posted by Moose101

Didn't some guy prove mathematically that you can't travel faster than light?

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Yes, you're absolutely right. Einstein's theory was 'what if' but it is impossible to travel at the speed of light making the theory of time travel impossible. Impossible but mathematically plausible.

If we COULD travel faster than the speed of light, we SHOULD see into the past.

And yes chloe time is an illusion. or rather it's a measurement of an illusion, which opens a whole lot of new doors.

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Originally Posted by willystylle

Yes, you're absolutely right. Einstein's theory was 'what if' but it is impossible to travel at the speed of light making the theory of time travel impossible. Impossible but mathematically plausible.

If we COULD travel faster than the speed of light, we SHOULD see into the past.

And yes chloe time is an illusion. or rather it's a measurement of an illusion, which opens a whole lot of new doors.

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That's something I never understood. Why is it that this one prominent energy, light, is the mark for what speed nobody can achieve? Also I was under the impression that travelling at a faster velocity at a far away point in space would cause a minor time differential. For instance, I remember hearing about this Russian astronnaught who was in space for 8 months, and they said that according to relativity he would have come back about 5 minutes younger than the point he would have aged to had he spent that time on earth.

i think gravity is nothing more than magnetics. the pushing and pulling of the poles. electrical charges. perhaps there are both + and - charged light rays, or PERHAPS, light is a universal magnet that is attracted to ANY charge? similar to how metal goes to either pole of a magnet.

magnetism makes sense to me, and if there's any reason it shouldnt work, please do share :)


as for time, it's an illusion, think of it as a river, constantly flowing and changing... the further up stream you go, the farther in the past, but it's not the same past as it was when the ocean water was still passing through at this point, all the mollecules are different. the past is gone, it's done, it's over with, at best you might be able to view it, but never interfere, because it doesnt exist anymore. same with the future, because it doesnt exist yet, and is prone to change, depending on what you may or may not know about it.

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

That's something I never understood. Why is it that this one prominent energy, light, is the mark for what speed nobody can achieve?

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That's what I've been wondering as well. Speaking of which. How do we really know this is lights constant? What if it's velocity is determined by the suns mass? Have we checked the velocity from other suns?
Maybe if I knew Einstein's theory, my thoughts can be put to rest. I guess I could look it up. But I know what's going to happen if I do. I'm going to run into countless webpages that try to make it a thousand times more complicated then it really is. They do this so they can make themselves feel more intellegent. Personally, I think real intellegence is trying to make it less complicated. Are there any real intellegent people here?

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

That's something I never understood. Why is it that this one prominent energy, light, is the mark for what speed nobody can achieve? Also I was under the impression that travelling at a faster velocity at a far away point in space would cause a minor time differential. For instance, I remember hearing about this Russian astronnaught who was in space for 8 months, and they said that according to relativity he would have come back about 5 minutes younger than the point he would have aged to had he spent that time on earth.

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I read that too, mrdevious, but I think it has something to do with re-entry and timelines, etc. Not sure.

Its a good question you brought up though, about how light is a measurement no one can achieve. The same goes for time itself. Time is a measurement of an abstract - Time cannot be PHYSICALLY measured. And we measure time using the birth of Christ as a starting point (or rather a middle one) yet we're unsure when the fucker was actually born!

Its strange to say 60 seconds has past since I started typing this post - but if a second doesn't actually exist (i.e. can't be measured, therefore an abstract) then am I really typing this thread? What if eternity happens in an instant? What if an instant is acutally eternity? Are we just a random thought in a sea of trillions of thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Moose101

Hmm, what if particles at the quantum level are predicatable? We just gotta figure it out. I'm thinking maybe creating a huge program that would take every aspect into concideration and annalyze the data. Doing thousands of trials and taking all possible velocities and acclerations from 0 to the speed of light.

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on a molecular level everything is moving and there for cannot be pinpointed in exact location.

and if a tree falls in the forest when nobody is looking....

while the past no longer exists we remember it and have pieces of it. Every thing you own is from the past and therefor traveled through time. You have memories. That makes you a time traveler.

Of course we're always headed in the same direction. The future. And we cant see it. And once we get to it it's no longer the future it's the present.

The past doesn't exist once we've passed it, and the future doesn't exist once we get to it. Maybe the present doesn't exist? Or is it the only thing that exists?

The tree will fall, the tree is falling, the tree fell...what happened?

Which moment existed, which moment exists, and which moment will exist? Does it all depend on whethere we were there to see it or not? Probably not. Because the tree is still laying on the ground when we get there.