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This is terrible, this is what Nazi like means. To some people human life means nothing. Think of it as Post-Partum Abortion, except it gets to happen 7 months after the baby is born. I spoke with my cousin in Amsterdam and they are horrified.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...069963,00.html
Howdy amsterdam,Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
I just don't know what to think anymore,when it comes to us deciding when a person should die,on the face of it,it seems humane to end pain and suffering,but that can quickly escalte into a slippery-slope of application.
I've been in chronic pain for over 16 years,but the sweetness of Life,precludes me from even considering such a thing as euthanasia..despite my pain-I'm dang glad to be here and there's still much that I want to experience and learn from..what if that decision to live,despite the pain-is taken away from me ? What if society says that my life is not worth living ?
There are many valuable,spiritual lessons to be learned from suffering and pain,as well as for those close to the one in pain..as well as practical lessons too-like pre-screening for possible birth defects and natal and post-natal diseases.
Your friends are right..to be horrified,as this could morph into something else,entirely.
Have a good one !:stoned:
Holland? This is true? I think its terrible! They play the emotional card and I am so sorry for any baby that suffers but it's like saying they want a PERFECT society? That is creepy imo...if your not perfect then you are put down..sentenced to death? That is what this is saying right? I have volunteered with crack,meth babies and its horrific..makes me detest the women that did it to them..but over time even with the long term disabilities they are so special! I couldn't do that to a human..a baby especially....I can't even think about the animals put down here without crying...guess that is where my woman emotion comes in..I don't think that is morally right...darn..I need to go to another thread..I can't think about that today.
The is absolutely no need to have force a child to live with profound disabilities, extreme, chronic pain, or other incurable horrible conditions. I don't give a fuck how much grown adults' backs hurt or how many years they suffered with it - it' not right to force our stupid ancient middle-eastern Judeo-Christian (or other) "suffering is good" morality, and other idiotic so-called values, on innocent children that have no hope. Doctors, with the pemission of parents, have been doing it all along - this is just a way of taking away the ability of individuals and organizations (usually religous) that would like to prevent this procedure.
This is not the first time this has been in the press, and here's an article from 2004:
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/N...635477,00.html
"It is in the interest of new-borns who have to endure unbearable suffering that we draw up a nationwide protocol that allows each paediatrician to treat this delicate question with due care," said Verhagen.
The protocol would concern only about 600 infants in the world - and between 10 and 15 in The Netherlands - who are born for example without a brain, or with malformations that would require countless operations simply to achieve a temporary result that would not even relieve the child's suffering.
"These operations would not ease the pain. Moreover, the child would suffer such unbearable pain that it has to be constantly anaesthetized," said Verhagen.
The announcement re-opens the controversial question of euthanasia, which has been legal in The Netherlands since April 1 2002 for people aged 16 and above.
Groningen university hospital, with the agreement with the Dutch legal authorities, has already drawn up a document setting out the circumstances in which euthanasia of new-born babies could be justified.
The disease must be incurable and impossible to relieve using medicines or surgery, parents must give their consent, the child must have no prospects of a future and the act of euthanasia must be carried out with meticulous care
i think people from Holand been smoking too much
There is NO need to put a baby down! You got your opinion and I have mine! This is inhumane and NAZI like! There is always hope! Just like putting Terry Schiavo through what she did..how do you or anyone knows when a change can happen?? You don't! And it's sickening and just evil to euthanize a baby!! that has no say...And I do give a F**k about Adults with pain even if you don't..now that is my opinion....who are you? Or the people making these decisions?? God? I don't think so! And you want to call religion stupid?? Your the know it all that can be stupid! Maybe we can start euthanizing stupid people!:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
You'd be the first to go! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelbay
You really, REALLY need to stop comparing euthanasia to Nazi-ism as it's not only bugging the hell out of me but they are simply incomparable.
If you want to waste resources on a baby who will never recieve more than temporary fixes simply to make it's life tolerable, fine.
But it doesn't make any sense.
Where do you draw the line?
This seems to set a very dangerous precedent.
I'm sure that Stephen Hawking, Jim Abbott and Stevie Wonder (et al...) might have something to say about this.
First of all your attempt at humor with your pic about religion is so disgusting...and I really expected better than a one liner like that one from you so apparently you are not as intelligent as I believed....I know there is a God and that is my belief but I don't bash non believers so why don't you lay off the anti-religion where it does not belong and see if you can volunteer for the next baby that is not good enough to live and maybe you could actually help kill the baby...now that should put you in a good mood. One thing about it...if I am wrong in my beliefs..I am still okay..what if you are wrong? Guess you have the know all answer to that one also huh? For the most part you just seem to think you are superior...not.:thumbsup: Your trying to make christians out to be the sort that enjoy seeing suffering and you are wrong..very wrong..this was about euthanizing a baby not religion so take it to the Spirituality board and we can debate this more if your up to it.:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelbay
Yeah, that's just what I need. A debate with theists - people that consider a cross, an instrument of torture and death, as a symbol of "goodness" - because it supposedly saves them from burning forever. I cannot "debate" this type of thing with believers - either you think that it's true, or you don't. I don't. Even after I realized that it was not true, a long time ago, I kept myself open to various reasons why religion MIGHT be good for humanity. So far, there??s not much in favor of that.
The object of your faith, as described by the bible, is a bloody, vindictive, demented monster that is far worse than any human being that ever lived. Fortunately, all things ??spiritual? are superstition. Unfortunately, people believe in them, and some are willing to kill in the name of this lunacy.
There is no doubt in my mind that some of the Dutch medical professionals that favor the laws for infant euthanasia are religious, but they have humanity and compassion. Hopefully, we??ll have these practices legal in the U.S. eventually.
I find the post-pardum abortion murder. I also believe that life begins at conception, that's my opinion. I find abortion disgusting and cruel but I don't think it should be made illegal. I do believe that abortions after 6 months should be illegal and that there needs to be way more guidelines surrounding abortion.
I believe in God. However I do not think that God has one way for a person to live and that he accepts everyone for who they are. A person dosen't have to attend church every weekend to be saved. Just have love and faith in your heart and you will be o.k.
Hey, I am pro-death all the way, abortions and death pentaly, but I would have to draw a line here. The baby is already born. Breathing, eating, crying, shitting, etc. People are treating the child as some old dog they don't want to have anymore. This is fucking disturbing.
That's very nice - your opinion of who is supposed to get "saved". Count me out. I don't want to spend eternity with slaves to a retarded middle eastern god that should have been put out our mentalities thousands of years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
The historical belief in this deity, the "god" of the three big monotheistic religions, is due to, dishonesty, fraud, atrocities, superstition and denial of logic. It does not make sense to keep a body that is brain dead alive, but having faith in the mistakes of religion makes it simple to oppose the obvious solution - especially when the child is not yours. The decision to euthanize a profoundly disabled child should be the decision of the parents and their healthcare practicioner, and this decision must be protected by the law.
Thought so...not up to a debate tonight or taking the easy way out of your nonsense and lies on christians?...and you are a liar...you are still posting here about religion...and sorry...U.S. will never kill babies that aren't perfect all in the name of compassion and stop playing that emotional card...you guys are killing babies..plain and simple..and your pics... still disgusting..your nasty.If Dr's want humanity and compassion..stop killing babies and legalize MJ everywhere...Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index...ge=smoker_24_1
Council For Secular Humanism webste
On Advocating Infant Euthanasia
by Barbara Smoker
The following article is from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 24, Number 1, Dec. '03-Jan'04.
Most secular humanists advocate the legalization of voluntary euthanasia or assisted suicide for those with incurable medical conditions that are, to themselves, intolerable.
More contentious is euthanasia for seriously defective newborn babies??because it cannot, of course, be voluntary. However, though a baby naturally arouses warm, protective feelings in us, I feel strongly that it is cruel, and therefore immoral, to preserve a baby's life when there are such severe handicaps that chances of happiness are manifestly low. For life can, of course, be far worse than death.
In a sense, the euthanasia of a newborn baby is a very late abortion??and, when severe defects have unfortunately not been diagnosed until the baby is actually born, why should the child be forced to endure an intolerable life until he or she is old enough to choose suicide or until natural death finally brings relief?
The situation immediately after birth is not the same as that of an older child becoming severely disabled, perhaps through illness or accident: whereas a newborn baby has very limited awareness, no idea of any future, and no real stake in life, an older child has become a real little person, with personal relationships, a sense of his or her own identity, and an idea of purpose??the very things that give human beings human rights and status.
Parents or doctors, or other responsible people, naturally have to make every decision on behalf of a newborn baby; but it is often said that a decision for something as crucial as euthanasia should be postponed until the child is old enough to decide for himself or herself. I disagree: the decision to postpone euthanasia is itself a crucial decision on behalf of the child. In fact, it is a decision to condemn him or her to, say, eighteen years of extreme suffering.
In practice, it is usual in Britain (and probably in the United States and other civilized countries) for doctors to instruct nurses to starve seriously defective neonates to death??giving them only water, not milk. This is certainly better than keeping them alive-but not as merciful as a quick, lethal injection, if only the law allowed it. Starvation may take about ten days, and though the babies themselves, being sedated, are unlikely to suffer much, their parents and nurses certainly do.
And what of the duty to society? In most cases the parents of a neonate who dies could produce a perfectly healthy baby in a year's time, and, since we now have a social duty to limit our families, it is only sensible to limit them to those with a reasonable prospect of a normal human life.
I am no stranger to obloquy for my campaigns on various social issues over the years, but it has been my advocacy of the legalization of infant euthanasia, both in print and on television, that has attracted the fiercest and most sustained hatred. Not least from schoolchildren: when a debating book, Whose Side Are You On?, was compiled for use in British schools, with signed articles on opposing sides of each controversial issue, I was the only writer the compiler could find who was willing to contribute an article advocating infant euthanasia.
Many medical practitioners are in agreement with me, of course, on this issue but they shy away from saying so in public, especially to a young audience. Understandably so, as their professional reputations could hardly survive the description "baby-killer" or "child-murderer" often leveled at me??whereas I have little to lose, so long as the hate attacks remain verbal.
Barbara Smoker is a former president of Britain's National Secular Society. She is spearheading a campaign to have nonreligious speakers appear on the BBC's "Thought for the Day" segment of the morning news.
One main problem is that the person most effected by this decision has no say in the decision making process.
I agree that it sets a very dangerous precedent. Comparing it to the Nazi's is quite accurate, when considering their search for the perfect race and their medical "experiments".
I know a few people that had severely handicapped kids and they wouldn't trade them for anything.
Of course, here in the states we have about 1 million abortions a year. 1% rape victims (rape very rarely ends in pregnancy which helps with the low number) and only 6% due to health concerns (mother or baby). All very sad.
Listen this is a sticky situation were the baby had an incurable disease,now i'm not saying put people down because they have a medical problem but what if there is no cure.It is sad that the baby is gone and i'm sure the parents arn't you know having a party or anything it must of been a hard decision to make and i'm sure no one would want to be in that postion where they choose life or death.it's would be a terrible position to be in.:sadcrying
You guys make it sound like they're just walking into the hospital nursery with a few sawed-off shotguns and are just choosing which baby isn't perfect and blowing their head off.
This is rediculous.
Understand that the child may not even have brain activity, ie; a vegetable.
Cool. We're wasting resources on basically keeping a carcass alive.
This is referring most to children who are constantly hooked up to a machine as the only means of living.
Once again, do not even compare Nazi-ism to Euthanasia. How can you compare a slave camp in which mass murders take place without consent from ONE higher power, to a place which tries to keep them alive from the brink of death or constant pain and in some severe cases will assist them in an unpainful death after a thought out process of keeping them alive?
It's not throwing garbage out. There's planning, medication at stake, bills, there's so much more that goes into this.
Shelbay- Wow. "One thing about it...if I am wrong in my beliefs..I am still okay..what if you are wrong?"
That right there tells me your main reason for practicing any sort of religion would be because you don't know what to believe in. That phrase basically states to me, that one of the reasons you're practicing period is because you're afraid that if you're wrong you're going to hell.
You want to make sure that you can be taken care of in the afterlife if there is an afterlife, and you're not even sure of it yourself.
A true follower wouldn't even make such a statement. "If I'm wrong, then nothing.. but if I'm right, OH IF I'M RIGHT!.. I'm going to heaven and you're going to hell. Neener Neener Neener.
Thanks.
Grim Reefer...This is Nazism....said it again. Grim Reefer haven't you learned by now you can no more stop what comes out of my mouth than I can yours...so don't tell me what to do because then I will make it a point to do exactly that...got it. Your comparing a baby to a "carcass" is sick and disgusting....as far as your comments on my beliefs...you don't matter..I know I am a true believer...dosen't make me perfect but I believe in my God and have no worries about what you think of me grim reefer. Tell you what...have some fun this weekend..see if you can volunteer to "peacefully" put some not perfect babies down. Your despicable the way you try to excuse the fact that babies that are not perfect are being being peacefully put down...doesn't matter how you try to pretty it up ..no matter what method is used it is a despicable NAZI practice.....anything else? eliminated..murdered...NAZISM...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelbay
Godwin's law
Godwin's law (also Godwin's rule of Nazi analogies) is an adage in Internet culture that was originated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states that:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.
There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. In addition, it is considered poor form to invoke the law explicitly. Godwin's law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. Many people understand Godwin's law to mean this, although (as is clear from the statement of the law above) this is not the original formulation.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Hahahaha.
Cheers to Godwin's Theory. That made me laugh.
:thumbsup:
Shelbay, once again you have yet to say anything intelligent or revelant to the conversation but to "cry Nazi" if you will.
First of all, look up the definition Nazism. No wait, I'll do it for you.
"S: (n) Nazism, Naziism, national socialism (a form of socialism featuring racism and expansionism and obedience to a strong leader)"
Interesting. A strong leader and racism. Where in euthanasia does this take place?
Let's check out the definition of Nazi.
( You know, because you seem to believe that euthanasia is a NAZI practice verbatim. )
"An abbreviation of the term for the National Socialist political party , a political party headed by Adolf Hitler from 1921 to 1945. The Nazi party ideology was strongly anticommunist, anti-Semitic, racist, nationalistic, imperialistic and militaristic."
Ok, here we go a little bit further. Nazis were very Anti-Semitist which is what I think you're mixing around in your head here.
Anti-Semitism (alternatively spelled antisemitism) is hostility towards or prejudice against Jews (not, in common usage, Semites in general ?? see the Scope section below). This happens on an individual level and goes on to the institutionalized prejudice and persecution once prevalent in European societies, of which the highly explicit ideology of Adolf Hitler's National Socialism was the most extreme form.
Oh wow, a follower of god judging me?! Your mighty savior will not like this.
(re: "Your despicable")
If a child can not think, ie; no brain activity whatsoever and it is deemed that the child will need to be hooked up to a machine for the rest of it's life or IT WILL DIE, think about it.
It's natural selection. Had man not built those machines in the first place (think back quite a few years ago) then the child would have died. Simple enough. But no, instead let's go ahead and waste resources so it's parents can watch the vegetable (I referred to it as a carcass simply because it's brain is dead.) slowly grow for their own selfish nature.
If you were in a car crash and basically would never see the light of day again, let alone comprehend life as a living state why live?
God would have killed you long ago without your air-vac and feeding tube.
kthxbye
You also keep speaking of a "perfect society" which is bullshit. Euthanasia has nothing to do with a perfect society.
We're not talking about children with down syndrome, we're talking about lives that without the aid of machinery, would otherwise be in severe pain (emotionally or physically) and kill themselves later in life, or die without them.
We're not talking eye color. We're not talking about body weight.
This has nothing to do with cosmetics.
Kthxbye.
NaziQuote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
It has to do with human Life..get it yet...you or anyone else that kills these babies are evil....play the emotional card all you want...it is just wrong and evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grim Reefer
I doubt you could ever teach me anything about Germany..you don't have a clue who I am so here is my definition of Nazi for YOU...GRIM REEFER=Nazi....No one has the right to make life and death decisions and base it on their opinion about the quality of life when there is uncertainty....you have nothing you can tell me about children that are in medical care for long term disabilities either...when you watch a baby survive where most said it wouldn't make it through the night..then you will understand...babies are fighters...and people should never lose hope or faith!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grim Reefer
Oh..just read this one....you really really need to learn not to tell me what to do you moron..now once again..read this well...euthanizing babies is Nazism...hope your really bugging now....waste resources...what a crock..using resources to bring life like you into the world was wasted motions then huh? I gave my opinion and you and your good buddy don't like it..just get over it and move on okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grim Reefer
God Have Mercy On Your Soul...because you disrespect my religion I will say that to you...God is merciful but your close to the unforgivable sin...quote all your "intelligent "words you like...your pics on religion are disgusting and sick....when you debate don't get mad..agree to disagree..but I am up for anyway you want to do it>Euthanasia+NaziQuote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
What the fuck do you know about me to start judging me about what I know?
Now for that I'm going to call you a fucking ignorant moron.
I shouldn't even be alive. The doctors told my mother I had less than a 1% chance to live due to my lungs not being fully developed. I was hooked up to a machine for the first year of my fucking life with countless tubes and wires hooked up to my head locked into a machine that had to have it's own power supply because if it failed in ANY way possible, I would die. I'm 100% healthy now. Don't try and feed me verbal bullshit about me not knowing such things.Quote:
you have nothing you can tell me about children that are in medical care for long term disabilities either...when you watch a baby survive where most said it wouldn't make it through the night..then you will understand...babies are fighters...and people should never lose hope or faith!
Don't tell me I don't know anything about Germany or it's culture. I'm over 90% german. (almost 100% but I don't know the exact amount.) I've studied it's culture over the span of a few years. I research every. single. thing. before I speak about it.Quote:
I doubt you could ever teach me anything about Germany..you don't have a clue who I am so here is my definition of Nazi for YOU...GRIM REEFER=Nazi....
You babble and still haven't even proven any legit part in your argument.
You don't understand that arguments don't have to lead to putting people down.
An argument is a mere clash of opinions, don't take things so personally.
The only thing you've told me is that my ideals are evil. You haven't given me any other viable reason that euthanasia is wrong.
You can tell me it's Nazism all you want. That's your opinion. I was merely stating that your opinion is wrong, because technically it is. I was proving fact to be fiction. I'm over your claim of "Nazism" now because you seem to just be trying to play it off like it's going to make me angry and make me say something that will offend you so I can look like a bad guy and your side of the argument will look better than mine.
Learn to take your own advice, Ms. "Holier than Thou".
(re: "God is merciful but your close to the unforgivable sin...quote all your "intelligent "words you like...your pics on religion are disgusting and sick....when you debate don't get mad..agree to disagree..but I am up for anyway you want to do it>Euthanasia+Nazi")
Oh, and by the way. Your "Euthanasia+Nazi" equation doesn't make any sense. I think what you were looking for was "Euthanasia = Nazism".
:smokin:
Not going to argue again on the board but if you would like to email argue...I am up for a few hours..just let me know. God Have Mercy On You. As I said ....get a clue now...there is nothing you can tell me about Germany or the nazi...oh and since when did an OPINION become a "right" or "wrong" issue nazi? Its an opinion...now calm down....chill...smoke you a good one and it will be all better....and it is evil to kill these babies..you advocate that practice I stand by my statement your evil...you said you shouldn't even be alive..then look at that...you made it...maybe some of these babies could..are you getting this yet? Your living proof about Dr's being wrong..sheesh hope you realize you just made a perfect argument for this murdering of babies....just think...maybe if that was standard practice when you were a baby you could have been out down....read some of my previous posts on my heritage and get a clue about how I can speak of its history you idiot....I can say anything I like...nothing you can do about that so just move on...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grim Reefer
Hahaha.
I'm sorry, but before I go I had to prove you wrong once again, Ignorance. (yes, that's what I'm choosing to call you from now on.) :dance:
I was given a less than 1% chance to live through the first night.
Live or die.
These babies will die if left off of the machine. There is a 0% chance of recovery.
The babies we're speaking of are on the machines for weeks and months and years, Ignorance. Not one night. Not a life or death battle. ;)
<3 You're funny. :p
We're not talking the period of one night, igorance.
Once again you choose not to review all of the facts and instead rely on only yourself guessing. Have fun living your lie of a life! :thumbsup:
Oh, and the way you pressure people using your religious "beliefs" (which is a no-no by the big man they say ) makes me laugh and want to call your pastor.
You remind me of that overly religious woman from that stupid reality show "Trading Spouses"
There is only one unforgivable sin in Christianity..Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelbay
Which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit,
Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven
Mathew 12:31 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mark 3:28-29 Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.
This is what I think:
I hereby deny the existence of a "holy" spirit, ghost, or any other god. Furthermore, the idea that such a being impregnated a "virgin" is disgusting, and against humanity, as are all ideas of the "holy ghost", the "trinity", and the monotheistic god of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.
Furthermore, I deny the concept of the holy trinity, the resurrection of jesus, and any/all "revelations" to man by a higher power. I also deny the existence of ANY supernatural power, and think that all "revelations" to men are fraudulent.
This will be my last post on this because its not worth this time for me...I believe in God and Jesus Christ and refuse to argue religion..nothing you or the other one can do to change that fact...learn some respect and stop supporting murdering babies....its evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grim Reefer
So you can quote the Bible..and? Satan can quote it word for word...not going to continue a religous battle with you..I believe in God and Jesus Christ and your evil for supporting murdering innocent babies and playing GOD...maybe you get it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
once again you prove to be a ignorant as all hell and a thick headed opinionated bitch. Dont toss nazism around since you obviously dont know how to use it, so you want to keep a baby alive when life gave up on it for a reason? wow... i think if you really believed in God you wouldnt want to keep a poor baby stuck on a machine instead of letting it return to the Father. You spew ignorant diarrhea out of your mouth so much it makes me want to vomit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelbay
You Nazi...nazi,nazi,nazi....see how easy it is to say what I want control freak...your under a new name and you just keep up the good work posting...out of your own mouth moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFlight
so im not the first person to think you are a obilvious ignorant bitch, fuckin figures
i like how you didnt even respond to what i had to say about the topic, you just make yourself look stupider and stupider.
explain to me why you would want to keep a suffering child alive instead of sending it back to God peacefully, its not like we are cutting its head off, you make no sense and you couldnt back it up
you repeatedly try to show us we cant control what you say and you say what you want, does this have to do with something from your childhood?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelbay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelbay
tthen send them to iraq hahaha probably will have a better death then your suggestion of keeping them on a machine, when will you cease to amaze me with your ignorance and how stubborn you are towards realizing it and fixing it. Typical "proud" american bitch right here...
You sick piece of nothing.....you say what you want on this board but I can guarantee you I am not a stupid American bitch...do well to remember that you coward...just starting to get who you were on here before..keep talking please....Proud to be an American and always will! :thumbsup: Now your suggestion of sending babies to fight a war when the context of my previous post saying babies are fighters.. was meant to say that we never know and I don't believe in playing God and the life and death decisions involved...you know what I was saying so stop your bs trying to mislead..and as far as winning Miss Congeniality...not my style and no worries there. Your just sick..not funny..and just another loser that has an ax to grind on this board....please carry on...your not interested in anything but causing disputes..loser...now I have to exercise my dogs but I will be back....make sure you stick around long enough so we can finish this...in other words just shut up until I can get back online..don't want you getting banned quite yet....so shut the hole in your face and wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFlight