was thinking of building a nutriant fogger system , to fill the rooting chamber with micro sized nutriant rich fog.NE1 have any info,ideas ,or problems with a system like this?Info is needed for the design process.
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was thinking of building a nutriant fogger system , to fill the rooting chamber with micro sized nutriant rich fog.NE1 have any info,ideas ,or problems with a system like this?Info is needed for the design process.
eBay sells foggers...
I guess that the setup would be similar to a DWC or something...
Maybe a big Rubbermaid / Sterilite tub... air stones in there... and your fogger(s). Also, I guess a fan would be good to move around the nuted-up fog.
But... the fog would get everywhere... so the fan would have to be very good... very good, not as in 1,000,000 CFMs... but, sealed, 'explosion proof', and, well, I guess you can expect lots of rusting.
But sounds good! Please keep us update... this is very interesting.
I actually tried this for a project that I scrapped since I didn't have any net pots. But, a fogger does produce a dense fog in most of the chamber. Seems that when I added a bubbler to it the fog spread throught the 10 gallon tupperware bucket. Obviously the smaller the better, but 2 foggers will do great with a bubbling wand.
The only problem with them is HEAT!... they do produce heat in the water. The bubbler did help with some of it, but I think that by adding a circulating pump with a coil of tubing outside the bucket would disapate most if not all the heat as long as it was cooled down a bit.
This adds so much complexity to the whole thing that it wasn't worth it for me to waste seeds on... ended up wasting them on a f*cked up first grow of tomatoes instead. But was curious on the theory when I thought about it, enought to experiment. Used the 10 Gallon bucket for my Ebb/Flood system instead, which is working great. Just have to watch the water level.
If someone was going to go the route of foggers, cooling down the nute water would be the number 1 priority, also, since you need to run them close to the top of the water level, you would need to make sure you had an automatic water filler with a reserve tank to keep the level up there so they work right. Otherwise if they sit 4-6" below the water surface... no fog. The bonus here is that the water bucket can be very low to the ground and you can use one of those under-the-bed plastic storage bins for they main system, and a 10 gallon or more for the reserve, if you decided not to prop it up. Also the added surface size of the low bin may allow some of the heat to disapate into a concrete floor... anyways
Very good idea to see someone else thinking about it... just some facts about the problems doing it, and some possible solutions. Good luck if you continue with the idea.
These are the foggers that are used to grow plants, No heat is produced.
http://www.altgarden.com/site/irriga.../ultrafog.html
http://www.nutramist.com/nutramistfogger.html
:dance:
Zandor Zandor Zandor...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandor
You just messed with my mind... Arghhh....
Ok, so I read the links....
What do you guys think would be best?
I'm thinking, a Rubbermaid/Sterilite tub... how deep the tub? That's my biggest doubt... how deep the tub?
So now I'm thinking: HydroNFT vs Fogger experiment (and -$400 in my bank).
You people.... Why did I ever start coming here?
Please reply/provide comments, I'm really interested in this... Oh gosh... more freaking money!!! I trully hope that my plants yield 400 pounds per kola... because this is just getting out of hand... I couldn't buy a plasma yesterday because all the money I've spent in this... It was 42", for $999 in Walmart!!! Oh well... maybe next year's Turkey sale...
Looking forward to all your inputs,
-turtle420 :cool:
Ok, so I've read more... and here's some stuff I've thought about:
-->100% Aeroponic system
-->Hybrid Aeroponic/Hydroponic system
In the hybrid version, you have your typical NFT setup, and, you insert/pump the aeroponic fog into the PVC pipe... So, the fog flows between the NF (Nutrient Film) in the pipes, and the top of the pipe...
Supposedly, you use less nutrient solution when you use aeroponics. In addition, some farmers have said that they've had best results using their nutrients' mix to half the standard measurements.
What do you think about both of these statements?
One thing that I did like, was that there's a picture close-up of a root... and it has tiny micro-roots growing out of it. Increased surface area... nice.
But, I don't know about the hybrid system... wouldn't the use of the NFT technique cancel/negate the less-nute/less-water benefits of 100% aeroponics?
What do you think? 100% aeroponic? or Hybrid NFT/Aeroponic?
Please, don't tell me to do a side-by-side comparison... I'm going full into one, or the other... if I'm going at all.
Here's the fogger I like: NUTRAMIST FOGGER 5 High capacity 5 Head Fogging system
http://www.futuregarden.com/cgi-bin/shop/50-3311.html
Page with picture of micro-hairs on roots:
http://futuregarden.com/hydroponics/...nutramist.html
Build A Hybrid Aeroponic/Hydroponic System
http://howtohydroponics.com/aero_hydroponic_system.html
Aeroponic Fogger System - Plant Metabolism on Overdrive!
http://howtohydroponics.com/fogger.html
I super-mega-duper eagerly await all your comments and :twocents:,
-turtle420 :cool:
from::: http://www.futuregarden.com/cgi-bin/shop/50-3310.html
"""Ultrasonic foggers will also sterilize your nutrient solution so adding live bacterial cultures will serve no purpose since the NUTRAMIST fogger is already sterilizing your solution for you."""
Great! Now what the hell do I do with the Floralicious Plus that I bought???
Maybe there's a reason for the aeroponic/hydroponic hybrid system afterall...
Now I'm thinking:::
Ok, let's say we have that fogger system setup... fine. In a big Rubbermaid tub...
Ok... Now, what do you think about this:::
What happens to the extra un-consumed fog? I mean, the fogger (NutraMist) is pumping fog into the tub... and the roots are taking it all in... and the fan(s) inside the tub are giving circulation to the fog through the roots...
Ok, what about the extra fog? What should be done with this setup? Place a timer on the fogger? Say, 30minutes ON, 1 hours OFF, .... , ... ???
I guess that the extra fog would 'puddle' up on the bottom of the tub... then I could throw it out after some time?
Ideas?
C'mon people! I'm just so eager to get input form you guys... I think I might change my NFT setup for this fogger system... Aeroponics. :) Or maybe the hybrid NFT/Aeroponic setup?
Thanks,
-turtle420 :cool:
If you check the federal trademark and patent web site you can find alot of infor about foggers. The info I have read (mostly from Israli research) indicates that foggers are not very effective and that the smaller droplet size does not appear to be of benifit.
I have use aeroponics for many years and have gone to higher volume lower pressure misters with no adverse effects.
Scrap the fogger idea, and go either with straight Aeroponic or Hydroponic. The whole idea of complicating the situation with foggers is getting foggy!!! I don't think your yield will be any higher with the foggers, you will have to deal with another think that can break.
Just KISS. Keep it super simple. Less chance of problems, and things just 'happening' . So many differant Aeroponic and Hydro systems that you can easily pick one. Gutter method works well, 6" PVC too, misters can be bought at gbhydro and other sites... I went straight hydro ebb/flood with rons 11 plant system. Seems to be working quiet well for me. 30 bucks and done. figure 1/2 are wasted on males, and then 5-7 females to take care of.
Good luck on what ever you choose.
LOL
Hey turtle I am just going to sit back and see what you decide dude. some of these comments are funny.................lol
thx for all the replies guys, im going to run a fogger on a 4' tray , and run my ebb n flow on the other tray for a constant and see how it works out . ill keep yall posted
Hahahaha... Zandor, I know my friend...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandor
There's a quote I really like, I'm sure you've seen it before once or twice ( ;) ;) )
-=Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds - Albert Einstein=-
Hehehe... I'm sure we can figure out who's who here...
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Because I've got the benefit of a little bit of time (I still can't clone for sex, let alone take my 15 clones for the grow), I'm going to see how Hondo's experience goes.
As to money, I'm fortunate enough to be able to pony up the amount. Not rich or anything... but at least I haven't had to 'ghetto' grow my 1st time.
I would like your opinion on something Zandor:
1. The 'sterilization' properties of the fogger... what do you think about the Floralicious Plus? Would you use it? Or discard it for the time being? (for those of you not in-the-know, Floralicious Plus has beneficial bacteria... and the fogger would 'sterilize' them - at a rate of 2 million cycles per second)
2. Nutrients: Zandor, the fogger information says not to use things that aren't 'water soluble'... so I would think a good rule of thumb would be, not to use solutions that, if left un-shaken for a couple of hours, will 'separate' into two layers.
I've got no idea, but I'm thinking that the GH 3-part are fine for the fogger system, right?
Hondo,
PLEASE keep either this thread, or a new one updated... I'm very much inclined to do this... please give as much info as possible, and pics... if you can. I would really, really appreciate it!
Thanks guys...
-turtle420 :cool:
Hay I just got 2 of this to work with:
m: ML09; Input: 120V/36V AC
Disk size: 20mm diameter
High output 9 jet mist maker with built in LED lights, outdoor/indoor transformer, fogger size 4.75"(dia) x 2 1/4"(h), cord length 32', great for pond or waterfalls, comes with a specially designed auto buoy.
Regular price: $189.00/each
Sales Price: $159.00/each; 2 or more $155.00/each
Shipping included in the U.S.
Light color
http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html
You can keep the nutrients mixed up with little to no problem. Either air stones moving the water around or a power head to move the water in circles around what ever you use to hold water. That keeps everything moving and mixed up just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle420
Who would let the water sit with out moving it around to keep it mixed up? How can anyone grow with out having the water and nutrients in the rez mixed up at all times?
litespeed... :D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by litespeed
What are you planning to do? Is this a soon-project... or something for the future?
I'd like to help you out dude... I'm super interested in this idea. What are your plans?
Are you going to grow with them now? Later?
+++++++++++
Hey Zandor,Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandor
About mixing it up, yeah... I thought to have my outside rez as a 5gallong paint pail (container... big thing of 5 gallons). Also, have it with an airstone (or two), and the new water pump I have bought for the NFT setup.
I thought, that to mix it, I could connect a hose to the water pump, the direct it straight to the top... then have it splash out of the hose against a 'base' or 'shield' which will make the water stream splash out in all downward directions... like the juice/iced tea mixers in restaurants. That should give good mixing, plus some added aeration.
Later everybody,
-turtle420 :cool:
ill be firing my systems back up in about 2 weeks,using a similar fogger head as litespeed was talking about,but a 5 head unit hooked to a humidity controler in the root zone to shut the thing down if i start to get condestation.I use gh 3part .If the system works out well , ill post the exact conponents i use for u other guys to try.Keep researching ,and maybe we can come up with a really good set up.
Hey guys,
Anybody have any links/names for good quality short cycle timers?
Something that operates less than the typical 15minute cycle?
Please, if possible, that it isn't digital... they're too expensive for their quality... I've read that burn-out more frequently than the old fashioned mechanical ones.
Thanks everybody ;)
-turtle420 :cool:
Here is one on eBay
Intermatic makes the best ones. You get up to 15 different cycle times you can set. They cost a bit but worth the money.
Zandor...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandor
Can I make short ON cycles with this timer? I read the eBay page, but I trully don't know if I can do that.
I want to use the timer for control of the fogger machine... I guess I'll have to play with it quite a bit, but I'm guessing it will be something like 5 minutes ON, 40-60minutes OFF.... I don't know... have to play with it.
Anyways, that's my question: Can I make short ON cycles with it? As short as, say, 10 seconds ON?
Thanks Z,
-turtle420 :cool:
Turtle 420
It is going into a tank 3'x8' x2'H with 4 400 watt lights HPS HID on mover I started with a home made units that did not work they give up. so I loaded it back up with water till now and started over and it looks like it is working so far. the tank is cool Complete Mini-Doser System (TDS/pH) CO2 Controller w/ Fuzzy Logic, dehumidifier and fogger all on a puter Complete Greenhouse Controller. 13'x48'x 7.5'H room covered in 6 inch of Styrofoam No heat.
battery back up, and if power gos out the Gen comes ON 50 KW. after 10 min. :thumbsup: :D
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamnnnnn........ :eek: :eek: :eek: :clap: :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by litespeed
Freaking nice!!! I hadn't thought about 6inch foam as insulation... good one :thumbsup:
Dude, your experience with the fogger per se....
How does it work? How long do you have it ON.... how long OFF?
What do you do with your extra water @ the bottom of the big tank (3'x8')? Have a drain?
Do you have a fan (PC style or something) moving the fog around inside that big 3x8 tank?
I was thinking on starting out my clones in my yet-unbuilt fogger tank, then just growing them right on that fogger tank... I would just need to change my nute mixes.
What do you think?
Thanks for all the input my friend!
-turtle420 :cool:
http://www.discount-hydro.com/timers.aspQuote:
Originally Posted by turtle420
You want the Intermatic Digital Timer or the C.A.P. ART Adjustable Recycling Timers. I have several of both and I do use them. You can get better pricing if you look on the intermatic timer and maybe the cap timer too. But now you know what you need to find so go hunting.
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle420
experience: NONE about 3 weeks into, plants about 41/2 in. on 5th nom. on 12/12 from start under 800MH and 800 HPS
The roots look good so far, 2 fogger 24/7, 2 drains 1drain and 2fill, 1 hooks to the Doser. extra water gos back to the reservoir 2x 2'x2'x8' one for nute mixes
on a float, fans 2 PC style. clones to harvest one step... just change the nute mixes. the top has 6 holes the short side and 16 the long 3/4 ply wood. with dehumidifier and fogger out side of tank. 6 Intermatic 120/240 volt 40 amp Time Switch. you can make you own timer
http://www.overgrow.com/growfaq/1190
For my clones and seedly when they start I use a Mix of epson salt and urine and a NO no miracle-gro--------- per Gal
epson salt 11/2 tp...............
1Cup urine..........................
1/4 tp miracle-gro...............
The rate that makes it is about 97%... to the 2nd nom. then go with the other nute... :cool:
the plants are 5 1/4 inchs tall.
QUESTION:
Let's say I'm going for the fogger setup...
I'm thinking of having a Rubbermaid/Sterilite tub for the root/fog chamber.
??? How do I place the plants in this container? ???
Net pots? How big?
I was thinking maybe the rubber plugs (what's their name?)...
Or maybe take a piece of hose (1" diameter?) and slice it, then place my clones there...
Ideas guys?
Thank you very, very much...
AND HAVE A HAPPY xMAS!!!
-turtle420 :cool:
clones or to grow?
To grow you can use 2"net pots and buy some waterproof plugs. The idea is to seal the system to keep the fog in. You don't use grow rocks the net pot is to small and can leak so you use the rubber plugs in place. The roots grow through the net pot.
Thanks for the reply. Here's what I was thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandor
I cut the clones, and place them in the container with the fog... When I'm ready to go from clone-->vegetative, I just change the nutrient mixes. Because of this, I would initially start off with a "over-sized" fog container for clones... But I was thinking of just leaving them where they're at, and then going into veg.
What do you think?
I'm doing an eBay search for "Waterproof plugs" and "waterproof plugs hydro" but nothing comes up... ideas? Suggestions? What keywords do you use? Thanks.
As to keeping everything sealed in, yes, you're right. But, I ask you, with the plugs, when the plants grow and expand their stem/trunk, do they also expand the plug? Or do they get constricted by the plug? Just asking... I'm going on imagination of the future here.
Good day Z,
-turtle420 :cool:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwackojackhydro
Search for the seller name WackoJackHydro and you will find my friend who sells them. The ones posted are for cloning but he can make you larger ones too just contact him dude and tell him I sent you.
Hondo: hereâ??s my take on the whole fog/mist idea. Find a reservoir with a fogger in it or an aero-tube with misters spraying, and stick your finger in it. After a moment take your finger out. It has a continuous film of liquid on it. Because the groovy little â??micro-dropletsâ?? have aggregated into bigger droplets and then into a solid film, like they do on the root surface.
Which is why I donâ??t think thereâ??s any difference between misting a root and just getting it wet (with a dripper or flood, whatever). Companies that sell misters have pictures of â??microscopic hair rootsâ?? and whatever nonsense, but 5 seconds after you turn it on itâ??s just a drip system. Also, the kind of misters used for our hobby sterilize your solution (according to the manufacturers) â?? nice if you have pathogens to kill but not if you want to use living microbes.
Also, one good design concept is to have an area inside the aerotube/nftchannel/root enclosure tube that doesnâ??t get wet; it makes the plant form air-roots in addition to the other kinds. Both fogging and aeroponic misting make that [unwatered-but-100%-humidity-zone] not possible.
But I donâ??t like aero systems so Iâ??m biased (I have one that some idiot built [me?] :) and itâ??s been the most royal PITA, canâ??t wait to be done and make a simpler system).
Anyway just my 2 cents.
Howdy growinit,
Something that you may also want to keep in mind,is adding some Spreader/Sticker solution to yer resevoir,or a drop or 2 of plain,unscented liquid soap,like Ivory,to improve the absorption of the water and ferts,the increased viscosity factor,breaks down the tension on the surface of water droplets and they cling better and absorb more readily. I used to grow in pots with a soil-less medium,and used a drop of Ivory soap in my fert and water solutions,it really helps the medium to be able to absorb water,instead of forming a puddle of water on the surface of the medium,that takes some time to be absorbed,the medium readily takes in the water ,because the surface tension of the water,has been broke down somewhat.
It seems to me that it would also improve a fogger system,as well. I could be wrong,so I hope someone else will chime in on this,I'd also like to know if anyone else does this.
Have a good one !
Howdy growinit,
I did a quick Google search and found this example of a surfacant http://homeharvest.com/insectspraysurfactant.htm ,,check it out and see what I mean.
Have a good one !
thanks man, cool idea. I've used surfactants before for foliar-ing and it makes all the difference. I usually use Coco-Wet, it works really good, I think all it is is coconut oil processed into a soap-like oil. Never considered using it on roots, but yeah would probably work the same way.
Hondo: BTW ultrasonic foggers would definitely be great for cloning, nice mist and it'd keep the water sterilized so no worries about diseases while they're rooting. I'd like to build one.
Howdy growinit,Quote:
Originally Posted by growinit
I'm more than happy to help anyway I can,sadly,I ain't in a position to be growing right now,but I always keep my eyes and ears open for tips that can help folks to make their 'girls' the best that they can be ! Let us know what the results are,so other folks can incorporate the idea into their grow systems.
Have a good one !
http://www.nutramist.com/nutramistfogger.html
i saw this system in action.... it was NICE... i think they claim a 80% reduction in use of nutrients...
Hmmm.... foggy roots.... hmmm.... :) sweet
Got a fogger system... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle420
I'm anxious to start it... but I'm waiting on the timers.
I'll be using it for
1. Cloning for sex
2. Clones for the actual grow
3. Actual foggy grow
Things I'm trying to figure out:
A- Sealing the root fog chamber... I think I'll be using tape shaped around the clone. For holding the actual clone, I'll be using net pots with some lava rocks.
B- Timing for the fog system (how many minutes ON/OFF)
C- What to do with the Floralicious PLUS (the fogger system sterilizes the solution)
D- How many plants to grow?
-turtle420 :cool: