So what do you guys think about the character trying to take Under God out of the pledge? I don't know if it effects any of you seeing as half might not go to school and are expected to say it every morning...what about your kids though?
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So what do you guys think about the character trying to take Under God out of the pledge? I don't know if it effects any of you seeing as half might not go to school and are expected to say it every morning...what about your kids though?
Anybody who wants to spew nationalistic chants should be free to mention God however many times they please, but schools making children chant in favor of their religion and nationalism is absurd. I wasn't informed I could opt out until well into middle school. But it doesn't really matter to me now though, since I'm not the type to pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth (I pledge allegiance to humankind instead...somehow it seems more worthy of my allegiance).
By "their", I meant the religion and nationalism of the people running the schools, not the children's, of course. Most young people don't really have developed political and religious ideas, and if they believe anything about politics and religion it's whatever has been drilled into their heads at school and church rather than the result of a thought-out individual opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by ermitonto
The last change in the Pledge of Allegiance occurred on June 14 (Flag Day), 1954 when President Dwight D. Eisenhower approved adding the words "under God". As he authorized this change he said:
"In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."
http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofhe...fc_pledge.html
So what's the big deal about saying "under God"? If your a non-believer, it shouldn't mean nothing to ya at all anyways!
More troubling to me the "under god" is the idea that children should be trained to pledge their allegiance to anything. If it is important to someone that their children say this superstitious bullshit, them perhaps they should say it with them before they put them on the bus. But it isn't their children they wish to be well trained sheep (already done), it is mine.
The "Under God" version should not be used in government activities and business. This includes public schools, the courts, Congress, etc. If private organizations wish to say it that way they can, and should, do so â?? but not at the taxpayersâ?? expense. Even more important than the "representation" argument is the personal choice that people have as to their belief(s), or lack of.
Howdy Void,Quote:
Originally Posted by Void
I think that Michael Newdow,is a scurrilous,secular humanist,berift of character and a parasite of America's many blessings..he takes from his country-but gives nothing back..typical behaviour of the lowest form of liberal.
Children need to learn early on,that saying the pledge of allegiance,is a pledge to give back to the country that they live in and which has unique freedoms that no other country has or ever had. I believe that every citizen of America,should strive to be a citizen/soldier and that our blessings are derived from God. Freedom ain't free..and we must be eternally vigilant.
Have a good one ...
Well said! Collect the check, get the aid....but can't say the pledge of allegiance? What ever happened to respect?Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
Ignore this post... Sorry
The big deal is that to me, someone mentioning God is just as offensive as when someone tells a religious person that there is no god. But then again, I'm Canadian, so it doesn't really concern me, thank god... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
Torog, how can you use 'humanist' as an insult? If anything, that's one of the biggest compliments. A humanist is someone who puts human beings first, who believes in the potential of human power, and believes that humans are inherently good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
How is that a bad thing? :confused:
BTW, secular humanist is redundant....
The under god should be stricken or least optional but i don't care becuase i don't have to say it anyways
This whole mess started years ago because schools were FORCING kids to say the Pledge of Allegiance against their will. A lot of the more vocal parents have been out west but I live in the south and Pledge time was always taken pretty seriously by my teachers.
If a parent or a student has a reason to avoid the pledge or the two words I don't see why it should be anyone's business. If it's just some droning mantra we're going to force our citizens to recite every morning I think it kind of loses it's meaning. We can show respect to our country and countrymen without kicking dirt all over the principals this country was founded upon.
Patriotism. The flag. The pledge. These are all a RESULT of those principals, not the other way around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Void
if there is a God, it is not possible to take him/her out of anything.
to believe in one, then it is with this in your heart that you speak at all.
to demand a child say a thing over and over, is called brainwashing.
http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm
In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'
In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.
beautiful but even your children don't believe it, no matter how many times you make them say it.
you teach them a truth early, it is the rich white guy that gets the liberty to buy his justice.
the framers of the constitution were all rich white guys, and the beautiful part of it was they had to steal the idea from the natives tree of peace agreement.