Getting to be a bit more of a 911 "Help Please?"

Here is the best I can do filling out the info form (PS... took me a while to find this in a thread as I could locate it on the main page etc at all) I tried a post 2 days ago and didnt get any response... so I finally found the form and am trying this again.. :thumbsup:

Plants is in Vegative (Obviously from the pictures). This is growing fairly well and new growth looks great ebyond every tip has a brown issue (at least yellow).. Leaf curl down and in bad etc.. Pictures tell a thousand words)

What is your experience level? FIRST TIMER (But very experienced with outdorr growing of gadens, trees, flowers in general)
Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (T-5 Florsecent, specifically a 4' 8 bulb)
.2) Distance from tops? (6" to 12")
.3) Reflector type? (See Picture
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? (YES)
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? (YES)
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule?

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (Fox Farm - Ocean Forest ... pre PH adjusted (supposedly) to 6.3 - 6.8) and anything you've added to it. (Nothing Added)
.8) Size of container. (3 Gallon)
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? (unkown - I bought these clones/cutting rooted into same soil I am useing)

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (Tap) What's it's ph before adjusting? (Intersting.. it is 7.15 into a clean cup at the tap.... 7.75 in a clean 5 gallon bucket once out in grow room)
11) Method of checking water ph. (PH electronic tester)
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (Nothing done as of yet)
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. (N/A as I am just in Vegative)
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? (water about every 32 hours as the plants are growing and roots developing and a great usage of water happening, I judge weight of 3 gallon pot and if getting light because of usage I add a quart of water)
15) Any additives or tea's? (Just what is already in the Fox Farm blend)
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? (only 3 weeks into this so do not have a huge history.... for now they are stable)
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? (Have not tested runoff as of yet) (have never watered so greatly there was any runnoff.... YET)
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? (I have not done any spaying at all. This plant is the only one hurting out of 6 I have going. the person I got the rooted clone from had just sprayed the day he brought them for spyder mites... it was his second spray. and I have not seen any news signs of the mites)

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? (Indoors)
20) What size of closet, room or hut? (the veg room is a 5' X 6' room 8" tall, and it is the back 1/3 of the whole grow room)
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? (lights are on 24/0 right now. Temp is 73 to 75 degress. Humidty is a wild guess at a round 55 to 62 right now and has been for the past 2 weeks)
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? (couple misquitos.. and this plant was treated via spraying for Spyder Mites 9 days ago when it arrived)

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (not sure on dominate strain... it is a Green Crack)
24) From seeds or clones? (Rooted Clone)
25) Is this an autoflower strain? (No Idea... I am a virgin here, and have tons of study still to go on strains)


Thank you in advance.

I have tried a few things (and as you know, you need to let each one run for at least a couple days to see if it is helping).

Once again on a few of the main items.

Water PH - 6.75 (for the past couple days, and did a large water to soak the whole pot until water ran out the bottom 2 days ago) (PH was around 7.5 prior)
Temperature - 73 through 75
Humidity - 50 to 52
Lights - were on 24/0. Yesterday (last night I switched to 20/4) Lights about 6" from top of plant.
Air - Total room air swap is done at least 6 times a day. (12 X 14 room). The small room these are in is in a corner and has continuous air flow.

All new vegatation has the very leaf tips brown when they first come out.

Attached Picture shows the other 4 plants I have going, and for the first run, I have to think they are looking pretty good.

Help ??? Ideas?? (maybe it was the spary the dude did that got me the clone? he used "Organocide" for Spider Mites, and may have over done the spray??)

She looks a little over watered. Watering should be every 5-7 days for the amount of energy used. The problem here is that you are not letting the roots fight for that last drink of water. You want the soil in the bottom of the pot to be dry before watering it again. The roots will never find their way to the bottom of the planter if the top soil stays wet. The roots are on a a single mission "Water" Let it dry out a few extra days then water it. Marijuana a.k.a. (WEED) is a resilient plant. If it looks dry and droopy, add water. Within 2 hours of adding water it will perk right back up.

1 other thing you can do to help weather stress, is buying some kind of Silica supplement. I prefer Botanicare's: Silica Blast.Attachment 283563 "Silica Blast Plant Bio-Mass Yield Enhancer is a beneficial nutrient supplement aimed to strengthen plant tissue and be used in conjunction with Botanicare's nutrients or your preferred standard nutrient program. Silica Blast is ideal for use in soilless container and hydroponic applications as well as soil applications. The silicate in Silica Blast helps the formation of a sturdy silicate matrix in cell walls. The strengthened cells result in reduced transpiration rates and allows plants to continue photosynthesis under stressed environments."

I am in a dry out stage after giving the flushing soak two days ago. I had let it get pretty dry (judging by the weight of the whole pot etc).

I was told about 30 minutes ago that the guy I got the clone from had in fact evidently oversprayed for mites and that all of the leaves existing when he did it on all his plants have became basically dormant and only his new growth is producing and continueing to grow.

Makes me think it might be more a bit of a overkill on the bug killer... so to speak, and it is still working its way out of the plant.

BUT.... I will continue letting it dry out as you stated (thanks for you input).... and see where it goes... worst case I loose 1 plant, and learn a whole bunch. :thumbsup:

Friday 3/23/12 Update. (still hopeful there is a learning experience here that more than just myself can benefit from).

I have this plant in a soil dry out cycle after doing a flush 2 plus days ago (watering until a small amount came out of container bottom holes).

I have also trimmed a couple of the dried out browned leaves off as I am feeling they still may be holding poisons potentially from over spraying for bugd by the person who did the clone for me. (I have not sprayed anything and the nursery appears thus far to be clean of pests).

I am curious if it is felt to be advisable to continue trimming of apprently damaged and dead leaves as new growth comes on to replace it???

the brown tips is typical of too much nitrogen - fert burn. could be from over-water perhaps. not really sure what your problem is as you write that you're just using foxfarm soil with nothing added. if that's the case, then I suspect that you're over-watering. the whole flush, dry, flush thing is just rumor. flushing is done by alot of growers but really isn't necessary. don't flush this plant anymore than you flush any other.

I have just started doing my own clones recently so the clones I have got to date from othersa, I cannot be totally sure what soil they are in. I was totally told that this plant is in fact in the foxfarm (and that it should be bulletproof all thru Veg). I have to say that accoring to all the info I read on the nutrients need during veg that the Foxfarm bag reads as though it is totally appropriate.

Obviously I will develope my own opinion of the many variatons of how to do things once I roll through a few months of this and then I will refine as you all have done.. I think I have everything pretty accounted for, and beyond this last time that I flushed (Soaked) (and the ONLY time) the pot I have just added water as most plants would deam necessary. I will still wait for the dry out on this one, and then water as the plants tell me they need it (I will do a Scorpio Mind meld with them... they will talk to me..lol).

I have one other plant that is getting a tiny yellow tip on a few leaves, and that makes me wonder if this Foxfarm is a bit hot. ??

I have added nothing but "PH down" to the water to get it into the the mid to high 6 range, and then watered the plants

Started added a bit of CO2 in the room yesterday (got my setup for that and am using bottled CO2)... I have been told that Veg stage will gobble the CO2 big time, and also have been told that it is the flower stage that needs it Big Time. What stage is the moist important to meet a plants CO2 desires??

I appreciate the feedback, and at the point I am qualified to help others I will in fact pass it along.. (I am far from that point right now) :)

plants are always using c02.
I'm not sure that using pH down is necessary. you might just skip doing that.

3-26-12 update.

I have not watered the plant with issues yet. (pot still feels heavy and that tells me roots are damaged as well as leaves). I will continue to not water until i see it droop a tad from lack of water.

I am keeping the water pH at around 6.7 to 6.8.

I dont have a PPM set up yet for CO2 (the end of the week Ill add it). so I am manually giving the plants a shot a few times a day (maybe 5 or 6 times).

Pictures of the Green Crack from today. The top has lots of new semi goodlooking growth and the lower plant is sending out new leaves. Tips are still burnt. Does not look like it has gotten worse since I flushed it with water. (might take another day or two if it was to show as a Overwatering issue and be a bad deal again).

Once again for a comparison. I have treated all these planst basically the same since I recieved them from the grower who got me the clones.

These two are a "Train Wreck" (the stubby bushy short one), and a "Casey Jones" (leggy and tall)

I think these two are looking great thus far (then again I am a rookie with a capital ROOKIE) grin

Its all a leanring curve.. I will get it dialed in .. BUT all your help is priceless. Thank you,

OH.. and I have ZERO issue telling me where I screwed the pooch on something... bring it..

lol... YES, I will be starting to use a better camera soon... :thumbsup:

Did those brown spots first turn kind of a golden yellow color, then brown? If so, then you have some magnesium deficiency going on. I don't know if mg is included in foxfarm soil. the leaf curling is strange, looks like maybe a heat problem, lack of water, too much fert. I'm tired and I don't want to take the time to sift throw all the data, I'm sorry but I'm off work and really tired now. But I can still help you. The way for newbies and oldies, by the way, to get a good grow is not to screw things up from the beginning. So what you do is this: you use foxfarm soil or other potting soil of good quality and use kind of a small amount of powder fert you get in a box at your grow shop, like foxfarm's fruit and flower in the yellow box or tree frog or Whitney Farms 5-5-5 at a hardware store. grow shops don't usually carry whitney but hardware stores do. The reason why you want these ferts is because they come with the bacteria and fungi already in them which aid in roots taking up the ferts. If you try Lilly Miller, you'll be disappointed because there are no bacteria. Put one cup in soil mixed well and in a 5 gallon bucket. then you just add water when the soil is dry. chances are you won't have anymore problems. I'm so tired I keep making mistakes as I type this and it's taking forever. anyway, try this idea in the future. also use good quality lighting if you can afford it and put a fan on the plants to knock them around a little to strenthen the stems. otherwise they fall over. one cup is a little too much as foxfarm soil is suppose to have fert in it already, but with these ferts, overfert usually isn't a problem. you can cut back on the fert a little if you want. this takes all the guess work out things and I think you'll be happy. use distilled water. if you want soil that is great and don't mind spending a little more, search "sunny girl soil" on the web, place an order with them and they will ship it to your address. just follow the directions on how to use the two different parts, one on the bottom and other on top, and just add water when dry. easy. when plants are really damaged it's hard to get them back so preventing problems is the key. alot of bad info floats around the web and I've been trying to put a stop to it for years. I'm not a scientist but I suggest that you do a little reading of the magazine called the growing edge. has the info everyone needs to have the grow you want. amazon has some copies. it's actually a magazine you might be able to get at a good bookstore. you can try the web for help but only use sites that have genuine data.

The spots in areas had a small amount of yellow ate the spot edge closeest to any green when any leaf was young as the pictures show, But pretty much start and grow brown.

Thru a process of elimination I was able to get 2 clones off of it about 2 weeks ago, (pictures included below) Yesterday I transplanted them into the same FoxFarm soil. Considering they were my first cutting, and both did root, I feel a accomplishment in that area (1 check for going the right direction...grin)..

I figure now to see if the soil (FoxFarm) injures them with me following normal procedures. ?? If it does, then that strain cannot handle this soil. If they do as well as my other plants then I have to chalk it up to Organocide that was sprayed by the guy who got me the clones. Evidently he is close to loosing his whole room to what he has done.

Medical Marijuana : Professor Grow is a link to a page that talks about using this method of mite erradication that could lead to loosing everything... (obviously there are many options and opinions).

I will see how these clones perfoirm now that potted, and that may reveal a better clue.

If I need to modify the Nutes for this strain way beyond what the rest of my strains like I might remove it from the grow (to many different things to monitor etc).

I do continue to thank you for the advice.. and trust me, I am listening to all of it.. :)

Tomorrow I am starting to use Distilled water for all my watering. I will run with that for a couple weeks and see if I see any changes. 9i really dont think this is it.. I think its a soils related nutrient situation) after tons more online research the closest thing I find is a "Potassium deficiency", BUT how I have it using a PH water at 6.8 (was 7.6 before last week), and using the Foxfarm soil without adding any nutrients is the part that has me stubled. (if it is in fact Potassium Def.)

A few things I can eliminate.

1. Heat Stress. I have took a temprature reading at the lights in several locations (just using T-5's now) and it is 73 - 77 degrees. I am able to hold my hand above the plants for as long as I want without any burning issues at all.

2. Overwatering. I know plants enough across the board to know that isnt the issue when I consider the amount of watering guidnance that says to water until some water comes out the pot bottom holes. (underwatering may be a issue, but I dont think it is the cause)..

I have taken some higher quality pictures today of the plant that has issues top to bottom, and 2 other plants that have a leaf or two that show similar signs.

Yellow leaf tip on new growth followed slowly by it turning brown, and spreading along the outer leaf edges.. evenetually the leaf becomes hard, and will break when bent.

Few More Pictures of the same condition taken today (3/29/12)

From what I am seeing here it does look like a phosphorous deficiency but having recently fixed this situation I am inclined to to go with heat stress, phototoxic burn from insecticides, and overwatering. I have to advise you against keeping dead/dying leaves on the plant.....they are invitations to a host of parasites and fall into the soil and rot on the surface. Over-watering is easy to do with soil and when it shows up visibly the tendency is to fix it with nutrients in the roots only making the problem worse. If you want to get some aeration back beneath the surface one option is to use a long skewer and poke holes gently until you reach the bottom and also give them a few pokes from the holes on the pot going upward..... do not overdo it and break roots though. In this situation, foliar feeding is the way to go. Liquid light by dutch masters is great...you dont have even turn the lights off. Overwatering will always be followed by deficiency if you are in the range you want to be in so add your nutrients to the leaves directly and use a wetting agent like saturator or coco-wet. Btw 1/2 strength on the liquid light just in case. It is all connected....1/2 of your success will be the environment you create. Remember pyrethrins, neem, and oil based insecticides need to dry well before the lights go back on, and raising the light for a couple hours might be a a good idea.

Thanks Burgertime, (not sure if you did mean Phosphorus, or Potassium??)
To update a couple items. (regardless of who might have sprayed a bug destroying agent.. the fact is that it may have been done)....lol (OK.. it wasnt me that did it, and after a few weeks now of close inspection it doesn't appear that there are currently and bug issues).

I had a Gardner out Saturday that has been green thumbing it for many years. His comment on enviornment was... "Temperature is Perfect". "Deffinately not a Heat Issue", "Air flow is top shelf". "Lighting is better than he has ever had".. He also commented that if anything the plants appeared that they could use more water overall.

So, after that made me all happy with respect to the "BIG" potential issues. Then the focus is on soils, water, and chemicals (be it organic or not).

The overall issue may (and most likely is a Potassium, and potentially Magnesium deff). The soil I am using should be fine in those respects to the point in the grow that I started having issues..

Sodium Lockout may be the key... as more watering was done, the worse the plant go, as if the necessary nutirents were in fact blocked by the salts building up from my city tap water. Since I really dont want to have a study done on the water. Per "Polishpollack's" info, I have gone to using distilled water to make sure I have "NO" sodium in the water supply (it will take a few days to see if this holds merits).

I have also got consultation at the local green grow shop (local product supply house)... Since these plants are getting into weeks 4 and 5 in this soil, the soil could now be nutrient naked. So I am watering with a fert mix recomended at the local shop (at 1/4 strength).. Pictures of products being used are included.

I have noticed that the distilled water I get locally has a PH in the 5.8 range. Not positive if I should increase it or not at this point??? (Help??)

There is also very debatable info on whether or not to flush the pots.. If I do have a salt lockup issue, should I flush the plants to get rid of the solts... (thus creating a potential overwatering issue). The Fox Farm soils is big time easy to get water through, so it doesnt just sit there and make a bog out of things.

Due to being a bit scared about this particular plants potential for infecting the rest of the plants, I did elimintae it yesterday (it has so much stress it would not perform well anyway) I wanted to look at the roots, and this plant in bad shape had nice white roots to the full depth of the 3 gallon pot, and was actually a pretty thick mess of roots in the pots bottom... The mid pot roots (if it were a tree, I would call them the Tap roots) seemed very strong (hard to break). The whole dirt package came out held together and overall was not soaked at all, and seemed like it could have used water any time..

Once again. I research and consider eveything that is passed on to me... Thank you. I will follow what I have going for a few days and see how things respond. :thumbsup:

Noting the fact that I am pretty Niave about all of this, BUT learning as much as fast as I can.... With respects to it being a Phosphorus or Potassium problem.

The Leaf tips are turning down, and not up.. Based off the info I have read, and my buddies visit to the room. The data and info says to lean towards Potassium issues.

Correct me where I am missing anything... :)

FFOF is a great soil if you use it correctly. I use routine transplants. From solo cups, to 1 gal, and finish in three gal. FFOF has enough nutrients in it to carry a plant 6-8weeks without any additives except water. I dont use nutes in veg anymore. I only use them after the 3rd week or so in flower. Since you said your temps and humidity are great, the main thing to focus on is the ph of the water you use. You said you were gonna start using distilled water. Yes the ph is really low in distilled. It will be even lower when you add nutes so make sure you get it back up to the 6.5ish area. Here's a little chart that might help you along the way.
Attachment 283820

I have picked up 4 different distilled water products and it appears to all run in the 5.8 PH range new... adding the Nute takes it lower to around a 5.3 to 5.4. So I am adding a PH up to get it into the 6.5 range..

Since I have already dumped the one plant (that was seriously to far gone to do anything with beyond experiment with) I am now able to better focus on my other gurls.

I noticed yesterday that the Chocolate Berry has deffinate signs of salt build up/heat stress. The areas between the leaves veins are ridged up (bumped up a little). At least it looks just like the photos in books and online stating it to be a heat stress/ salt build up issue. That would actually work in line with the fact that the Fox Farm product is high in salts, and potentially my tap water may be as well, and thus have given myself a lockout of nutes caused by salt build up. (at least to me it makes sense).

2 items

1. Using distilled water at the proper PH should take care of and prevent this happening to this extent again. (Good Action there, but I am curious if I am missing something??)

2. I have a cuurent existing scenario where I think I may need to do some sort of flush?????? I have read info saying to use Sledgehammer. I have read info saying to use regular water?? regluar water at 6 times the pot size (3 galloon pot, flush with 9 gallons).?? I have read info saying that you should flush once a month??? I have read info saying that flushing causes BIG STRESS (no one wants to purposely stress their babies).?? SO.. truly, what is best and why if you could???

Also, with respects to poting and roots etc. I am fighting with the idea that going from clone cube to a 1 gallon pot in veg, then to a 3 gallon pot in flower would be better than going right int0 a 3 gallon pot from cloone cube??? (I guess I am thinking when you plant anything outdoors you dont keep uping its pot size then finall go big)..

Once again.. I am paying attention to all, but then you can only do so much at a time, as I would rather loose a plant or two or three, and truly figure out my strains and what they require best in my enviornment, so that my second round goes smoothly, than throw a tone of things at them have them do OK this time, and not really know what I did to cure their defficiencies.. :cool:

Wanted to toss up a couple pictures of the Chocolate Berry that I think is showing signs of Salt Build Up / Heat stress.

This plant was taken from a solo cup clone with good roots 5 week ago and transplanted into the 3 gallon pot with Fox Farm soil.

The leaves shown are younger ones aproximately 10 days old, maybe 12. Older leaves dont show the signs as much or at all, and the really new 2 or 3 days old growth, I am not able to tell yet for sure.

This plant has had some FIM work done on it. I plan to leave it in Veg for a total of 7 to 8 weeks. Being a medical grower in WA I am limited to rooted plant number at 15, so my take is that I want each plant to perform to its fullest capability..

Besides, I have always loved playing with plants... GRIN!!!

Friday 4/6/12. Tap water has sat and declorinated for 36 hrs. (didnt want to buy distilled water for any flushing work). I have adjusted the PH to 6.7 in the flush water (figured that is cheap and easy so why not do it). I have picked up some sledgehammer FF flushing product, and will follow the application rate listed on the bottle.

I am going to flush 1 plant that is in a 3 gallon pot (the soil is FF).. The plants is a "Train Wreck" that has been potted in Veg for 5 weeks, and overall looks to be a healthy plant.... BUT has leaf tip damage that is continuing to grow and shows all through the plant now from older to new leaves. This plant being one of my shorter ones is in no way have issues from being to close to my lighting. This plant has alo slowed it sgrowth substantially. The specs read that it should be a tall plant that is hard to control indoors without significant topping, bending etc. Mine is a short shrub...lol so unless someone gave me ad info on plant strain, something is off with its care and keeping.

I will take a few pictures prior to flush, and get them posted a bit later... then give the plant a few days and see what the new growth is looking like, and if it has picked up its growing speed again.

Wish me luck... (the other 3 large gurls I have just started waterings at 1/4 strength with the products previously shown, and 2 seem to being showing more growth, but still some signs of issues).

I am trying my best to study more, and research through ALL of your ideas. Once again, to many things tried at once (and of successful) you truly do not know what it was that corrected the problem..

Overwatering has been brought up a couple times. So I wanted to get into that farther. I do have some experience with potted plants and watering as well as large outdoor vegatable gardens, outdoor irrigation installtion and set up and timing (some trial and error stuff). Guess I am saying I understand what is being stated as a potential, and even though I didnt think it was a issue, I wanted to take notes a bit closer to what I was doing and see if maybe that is a issue.

That said. there is a ton of opinions on how and when to water... I have observed (as most of you also know) that when a plant is showing signs of needing water, AND you water it, the water will shoot right through and come out the bottom holes of the pot. You have to add some water, let the soils start to take it, and then it will hold the water (much like a dried out sponge). I personally dont like the plants to get to the point where you walk into the room and find them at half their diamter size because of wilting due to lack of water (even though that CAN stimulate root growth etc).

I do what I need to do to get the plant watered on day 1. It is a 3 gallon pot probably with 2.5 gallons of soil in it. It may take 2 quarts of water to get a needy plants soils up to the point you could call it full (without actually performing a flush).. That adds about 4 lbs of weight to the plant and pot. (a noticiable difference when caompared to its dry weight... maybe almost double).

With the lights (T5 florescent) going 24hrs, and the fans (for air circulation and to promote stalk strength) going for around 16 hrs a day. Temp at 73 degrees, humidity dialed in at around 55. The plant will need water again (show signs of wilting starting.. with a bit of droop) on day 3.

So, to just keep things in ballance and not let it get too dry (so that is is a watering maintenenace issue to get it done takes a hour, that does happen if I wait until day 4). I am adding about 1 quart plus of water every other day. These plants have been in Veg for about 5 weeks and are averaging 20" tall, and I have pruned to create a bushier shape to them.

I am judging the plants need for water by the container and plants weight (really pretty easy to do).

Bottom line. Unless I am messing up and not watering enough (soaking them 100%) and then letting them go without water long enough.. I truly do not think it is overwatering.

Once again, I do let them go about 48 to 60 hrs between watering on the larger plants.

Onbviously I have big shoulders and can take the heat if I am being a Screw Up here... ?????

AND....... (I cannot emphasise it enough) Thank You for the help..

4-15-12, The "Train Wreck" I flushed on 4/6/12 (9 days ago) has now been watered a couple times (light waterings to keep top area from drying as the lower root area still uses the moisture from the flushing up). It isnt showing any signs yet of being better as the area of concern happen in the leaves that around 2 plus weeks old.

I have a 7 week old (7 weeks in veg, after 2 in clone) "Choco Berry" That seems to have a good overall size and seems to be very ehalthy beyond the nice prety tree full of yellow leaf tips. See picture of the full plant (not a really good one but you can see the tiny yellow tipe across the whole plant, top to bottom).. See close up of the leaf itself..

I have been wateringthis plant the past week with 1/4 strength grow nuterients (Advanced Nutrients). I havent seen any changes in new growth yet, but the nutes seemed to add some growth spurt to the plant.

I have been told not worry about it, the plant looks great, BUT, it would sure be nice to truly know what is causing it..???

As with my other plant, the leaves that are curled at the tip. Curl downward (not up).