adding lime to soil w/ plants already in.(help needed)

ok so Im using sunshine no.4 soil less mix(no nutrients in soil) and i tested my runoff after the first week of veg and the ph is 5.7-6.0...I would like it 6.3-6.6 but i didnt mix any dolomite lime into my soil like i probably should have...So what should I do to raise the ph? i know giving it higher ph'd water is a quick fix, but that doesnt seem the way to go, can i put some lime just at the top of soil?maybe 2 inches deep or so in certain parts and just continue to water?

any advice would be great, im not a total rook, but no expert by far

thanks in advance

yea you can top dress the soil with the dolomite lime.may not be the best but will get you by,just make sure you mix it in as best as you can.i would add only 2 tablespoons at the most.make sure you remix the top soil whenever you can

Im in 3 gallon pots and only need to raise about .5...still recommend 1-2 tsp?
Also does it need to be applied as even as possible?

thanks a lot, im going to go get the stuff tonight

dissolve a very small amount of powdered lime in a gallon of water, and raise your Ph, slowly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steezyd

ok so Im using sunshine no.4 soil less mix(no nutrients in soil) and i tested my runoff after the first week of veg and the ph is 5.7-6.0...I would like it 6.3-6.6 but i didnt mix any dolomite lime into my soil like i probably should have...So what should I do to raise the ph? i know giving it higher ph'd water is a quick fix, but that doesnt seem the way to go, can i put some lime just at the top of soil?maybe 2 inches deep or so in certain parts and just continue to water?

any advice would be great, im not a total rook, but no expert by far

thanks in advance

---

sunshine no.4 is pre-buffered with dolomitic limestone. it also has a "starter nutrient charge". you should start feeding 7-10 days after transplanting.

it is mostly sphagnum peat moss. this has a very low pH (around 3.0-3.5). the this coupled with the fact that the lime can wear off can cause pH issues.

when did you transplant into the 3 gal containers? if it's been less than 2.5-3 months it's not a lime issue.

what is your ingoing pH? what are you using to test with? how do the plants look?


-shake

I just transplanted the clones last Monday(27th) the ingoing PH has been 6.5 pretty much on the money...Im using a new milwaukee digital PH tester, I was planning on only calibrating once a week, but now i think i will test it before each time w/ the buffer solution since ive never used the brand.

The plants look ok, il take some pics today and post, there is some leaf curl(upwards) because i overnuted them slightly(didnt know about the 7-10 day wait after transplanting) and i was reading this vague feeding chart the wrong way, ive been following one that breaks it down by day and i think it will be helpfull ( http://hugeharvest.com/feedingschedule.pdf )

I flushed each plant w/ 1 gallon of ph'd RO water w/ 1/4 tspof flushing solution
last night(curl jut started day before) so tonight i was going to resume there feeding with a real low (250 ppm)

what do you think?

you really need to flush the plants with at least one gallon of water per gallon of soil. the 1 gallon in a 3 gallon pot is not a flush. a flush is excessive amounts of water leaching mineral salts out of your medium. you want to get your soild back to basic. take as many variables out of the equation that you can, or simplfy things.

your pH lowering that much isn't horrible. just bump your nute mix up. you can run it up to 6.8. then check runoff. and don't so much worry about runoff pH if your plants look health. do they look healthy?

are you feeding normally with RO water? if so you need to use calmag (or molasses) and get your PPM to ~200-250 and THEN add your nutes.

i wouldn't feed anything until you figure out what the problem is. i would use water (and if RO calmag or molasses).

dolomitic lime takes time to break down, and is a long term solution. your would be better off using hydrated lime. but be careful because too much is toxic and it can burn your roots.


-shake

Ok, I'll post pics later of plants so you can see how they look health wise.
I will flush today w/ 2 more gallons of ph'd water at 6.8 and 1/4th tsp of flush solution per gallon.

i will test the run off again after the last gallon and see where im at...but what i want to know is, is giving them water with a ph of 6.8 a permanent solution? does it hurt the plants?and if i got the hydrated lime(which im more then willing to get) would that be permanent as well? or would i have to keep adding it over the course of the grow?

I do have cal mag and use a tsp per gallon in RO water...here was my feeding schedule the very first week...I think you will see where i went wrong pretty fast.

day 1 Transplanted clones 9/27 10pm...first watering at 1030pm
w/ 1/2 tsp of cal mag
1/2 tsp liquid karma
1 tsp grow
total ppm 275 ph of water 6.6

day 2 1tsp cal mag
2 tsp grow
1 tsp LK
475!!!! ppm 6.5 ph

(day 3 i had a 510 ppm) (day 4 515 ppm- still looked healthy too)
I should probly menion that i was only using 1 gallon of water for all 12 plants

(day5 550 ppm (thought i noticed yellowing...but couldnt tell)

Day 6 550 ppm (very very slight yellowing on 1-2 plants)

day 7 (monday 10/4)600 ppm definate curling of leaves upward(taco) but not much more yellowing...

day 8 (tues- did what i thought would be a decent flush to clear out all the excess nutrients i gave them)

day 9(wednes - did nothing )


when looking at the chart i gave the link too, I realized way to many nutes...correct? when i do resume feeding say friday...is 250-350 about the right ppm like chart says?


thanks a lot man....huge help

here are pics from day 5(first day i thought i noticed yellowing on particular upclose pic of plant)

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9151/photo22z.jpg


http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/127/photo1vx.jpg


here my setup to:
-2 1000's,charcoal filter,wall a/c unit in a 5 ft wide 9ft long 6'6 ft high space w/ (a drip system eventually)for now I'm watering by hand.I keep the temp between 73-78 degrees, I want to get a humidifier so i can have the humidity on lock, but it generally stays between 53-63.
-I use a RO filter,Sunshine soiless mix as medium,(nutrients I use are) CNS Grow,Ripe & Bloom w/ Liquid Karma and Cal Mag. The Light started off at 36 inches and i worked my way down to about 21-23 inches over the course of the week.
-vortex 700 cfm fan w/ 8 inch ducting(room only needs 300 cfm but w/ big charcoal filter and 20 ft of ducting
probably about right) w/ 2 regular fans in room for general air movement

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steezyd

i will test the run off again after the last gallon and see where im at...but what i want to know is, is giving them water with a ph of 6.8 a permanent solution? does it hurt the plants?and if i got the hydrated lime(which im more then willing to get) would that be permanent as well? or would i have to keep adding it over the course of the grow?

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giving them a higher pH water/nute solution will slowly raise your soil pH. nothing is ever "permanent" as we are creating an artificial environment with micro environments contained within (your pot/soil is a micro environment; microbes in the soil break down the salts and make them available for your plant to uptake).

hydrated lime is fast acting, and like most fast acting substances does were off relatively fast. it's more of a quick fix.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steezyd

day 1 Transplanted clones 9/27 10pm...first watering at 1030pm
w/ 1/2 tsp of cal mag
1/2 tsp liquid karma
1 tsp grow
total ppm 275 ph of water 6.6

day 2 1tsp cal mag
2 tsp grow
1 tsp LK
475!!!! ppm 6.5 ph

(day 3 i had a 510 ppm) (day 4 515 ppm- still looked healthy too)
I should probly menion that i was only using 1 gallon of water for all 12 plants

(day5 550 ppm (thought i noticed yellowing...but couldnt tell)

Day 6 550 ppm (very very slight yellowing on 1-2 plants)

day 7 (monday 10/4)600 ppm definate curling of leaves upward(taco) but not much more yellowing...

day 8 (tues- did what i thought would be a decent flush to clear out all the excess nutrients i gave them)

day 9(wednes - did nothing )

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i haven't even looked at the chart yet but i can already tell that you over fed them. your pH is off, but in this case lime isn't going to fix it. i mean you will be able to raise it with the hydrated lime but you will always be "chasing" your pH. (i can't get the pdf to pull up.)

like i said the sunshine no.4 has dolomitic lime in it. this is a time tested, stable method of maintaining pH and is use by virtually all manufacturers of potting mixes. there is no way yours has wore off already.

the mass amount of nutes are causing some type of lockout. flush like a mad-man and watch your new growth. (by the way, hydrated lime is easy to flush out, dolotmitic not so much.)

keep in mind that it takes a bit of time to see change in plants in soil. 7-10 days is a good range. (remember those microbes i mentioned earlier? it takes time to break those salts down and make them available to your ladies.) it's not like hydro where sometimes you can see changes over night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steezyd

when looking at the chart i gave the link too, I realized way to many nutes...correct? when i do resume feeding say friday...is 250-350 about the right ppm like chart says?

thanks a lot man....huge help

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correctomundo! (like i said, i can't pull up the chart). you should only be feeding once to twice a week depending on how heavy/light. use properly pH'd water in-between. with the calmag for RO of course. if you are using mineral salt based (non-organic) ferts then you need to flush about once a month!

and you are welcome! good growing.


-shake

meant to post this link too. whoops.

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...hy-how-do.html

-shake

whewwww...and i thought today was my day off -lol

I flushed all the plants w/ 2 more gallons of water(3 total now) w/ ph'd 6.8 water and by the last gallon the run off was 6.0-6.2...

Ill still post pics of them tomorrow during "light on" hours, now the soil is super drenched...im assuming it wont even be close to dry until saturday...should I wait until top 2-3 inches are dry or close to it before watering?

and the grow chart reads like this

(Day1) (day2) (day3) (day4) (day5) (day6) (day7)
Week1 100-200 100-200 100-200 100-200 100-200 100-200 100-200
week2 200-350 200-350 200-350 200-350 200-350 200-350 200-350
week3 350-500 350-500 350-500 350-500 350-500 350-500 350-500
week4 500-750 500-750 500-750 500-750 500-750 500-750 500-750

week5 750-850
week6 850-1000
week7 1000-1200
week8 1000 - 1200
week9 800-1000
week10 600-800
week11 400-600
week12 0

should i follow that?

that looks like it's a hydro feed chart. not positive though. what nutes are you actually using? it looks like they sale different brands on that site.

like i said, you should be feeding once, maybe twice a week (depending on strength). if you feed everyday you will over feed and over water. your PPMs aren't nearly important in soil as it is in hydro. in one feeding you can push your PPM to 2000 or 2200 (give or take). some strains are more tolerant to high PPMS, some are not. you might be able to push it a bit higher, but do it gradually.

good growing!


-shake

Im using CNS(brand name) - Grow,Ripe, Bloom mixed w/ Liquid karma...

I have to admit when u say feed them once-twice a week im shocked its that low...but at the same time I realize the advice i was given must of have been very shotty...I was told to feed them every day!...but the person who told me this also keeps the temp at 85 on purpose....so yea...I think Ill try twice a week...starting whenever the top 2-3 inches are dry...I just called two hydro stores to back up your info so im definably going that route...

here are some pics from today
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7141/108yn.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1554/10802.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/69/10803.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3349/10804.jpg

you the man

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steezyd

Im using CNS(brand name) - Grow,Ripe, Bloom mixed w/ Liquid karma...

I have to admit when u say feed them once-twice a week im shocked its that low...but at the same time I realize the advice i was given must of have been very shotty...I was told to feed them every day!...but the person who told me this also keeps the temp at 85 on purpose....so yea...I think Ill try twice a week...starting whenever the top 2-3 inches are dry...I just called two hydro stores to back up your info so im definably going that route...

you the man

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it's pretty much common practice to feed plants in soil once/twice a week as described. a good way to tell if you ladies need to be fed/watered is to make a diamond with the thumb and forefinger from each hand. pick up the pot this way and lightly bounce it up and down. do this when you know it's dry and then right after you water. you will feel the difference. when it feels empty again it's time to feed/water.

use plain, pH'd water in between feedings. if you use reverse osmosis water you must use a calcium/magnesium supplement or molasses.


-shake

ok so things have been pretty solid so far,no curling plants are healthy for the most part...I gave them a higher ph/d (6.8-6.7) water for a week before resuming regular ph levels...I now think it might have been to soon to give them (6.5-6.4) ph'd water.

8 of the plants looked great, they really took well to the flushing...4 of the plants were hacked up a little more when they were clones and took a little longer to recover, I used the same amount of flushing solution on all of them(1/4 tsp per gallon) but the 4 weaker ones took the flushing solution a lil harder then they should have and were more of a pale green then true green like the other 8...but they are still recovering nicely.

The reason im posting now is because on 2-3 of plants there was some very slight brown spots which turned to rust spots over the weekend...I did some research and tested my runoff again...and its a litte low at 5.9-6.0...

The last time i gave them nuted water(350ppm) was last monday(10/11)...I was going to give them nuted water(500ppm) today but now I think that would be pointless if theres a ph problem since they might be in lockout...

so I was going to give them ph'd(6.8) RO water w/ cal mag today and the rest of the week to try and balance out the ph in the soil...

what do you think shake? I should probly mention this is my last 7 days of VEG...I really wanted to pump them w/ nutes and try and hit the 2ft mark(16inches now) but now i just want to get into flowering w/ everything ok

Ill post pictures soon

let's see those pics. i'll see what i think then.

-shake

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1...1010181403.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8...1010181401.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8...1010181401.jpg

looks like they need to be fed. how dry is the soil?

-shake

really? the soil was very dry until i gave them a little water today...I fed them last monday(5/11) w/ a pretty low ppm(350) then I watered them the follwing thursday(5/14) w/ just ph'd water...and not again until today...but i barely gave a gallon each time i used just ph'd water...

so your analysis is probably spot on...since the overnuting prob, ive barely gave them any nutes...so should I give them water today w/ around 500ppm nutes? and instead of once a week should I go twice aweek?

and how do you know they want nutes and are not on a lockout because of the soil PH(5.9-6.0)?...not that im questiong your judgment ...just curious

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steezyd

really? the soil was very dry until i gave them a little water today...I fed them last monday(5/11) w/ a pretty low ppm(350) then I watered them the follwing thursday(5/14) w/ just ph'd water...and not again until today...but i barely gave a gallon each time i used just ph'd water...

---

i was asking about the soil because they look like they need to be fed, but they also look over-watered (also indicated by the color and we know you leached, but if they are dry they can look as if over-wated). i didn't want to add to the problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steezyd

so your analysis is probably spot on...since the overnuting prob, ive barely gave them any nutes...so should I give them water today w/ around 500ppm nutes? and instead of once a week should I go twice aweek?

---

usually once you flush you feed with a 1/2 strength nutrient solution.

it's tough to recommend a dosage as that feed chart is for hydro. PPMs aren't near as relevant in soil as in hydro. in soil microbes break down the mineral salts (or organic material) so the plant can uptake what it needs. this is not so in hydro, as there is obviously no microbes. soil plants are a lot more forgiving, but slower to react, either negatively or positively.

you might call them and see if they have any soil feeding info.

if you feed a low dosage you can feed twice a week, or you can just up the dosage. start out small, increasing as you go. once you see the plant start to burn on the edge of the serrated part of your leaves, back off just a bit. t

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steezyd

and how do you know they want nutes and are not on a lockout because of the soil PH(5.9-6.0)?...not that im questiong your judgment ...just curious

---

i can tell they need nutes by their color mostly. the brown spots can also be a lack of something. you also have admitted to not have feeding recently now. lol. you have also flushed a lot, which leaches nutes from the soil. a pH of 5.9-6.0 is not far from the optimum of ~6.3, and looking at a pH chart, not there is not much that can be kept from the plant. phosphorus does fall off sharply close to here, and i believe those brown spots can be from a phosphorus deficiency (don't have my bible in front of me).

hope this helps.


-shake

meant to add this chart earlier.

-shake

i see...ok one more...I prepared 3 gallons of nuted water, and there are 12 plants...so thats about 1 gallon for every 3 plants...is this enough? should i be giving water until i see it come out of the bottom? because if thats the case i should be giving 1/2 to 3/4 a gallon to every plant...

Im going to go ahead and feed them nuted water(500ppm) tonight w/ a slightly higher ph(6.7-6.8)...then I guess Ill wait to see how they look on friday and make a judgement call to see if they need more nutes...

hopefully it works out....also the strain is kempdog...not sure if that makes a diff but ive heard this strain can take some shit and still keep going

you want to make sure your entire medium gets wet. you don't want dry spots. i don't worry about it so much when just watering though. i'll just dump a big cup of water or something in a container if it needs it sometimes.

it also will depend on your root size (more roots and your medium will hold less moisture, same thing if it's old/compacted). your temps also play a part in this.

the most important thing you can do is learn to read your plants. there is no set formula, merely a guideline. your ladies will tell you all you need to know, you just have to learn what to look for. so when you do something, pay attention to how they react.


-shake

Just some pics...I dont think im going to feed them again until monday...they seem to be responding well( seems like the rust spots have stopped, I havent seen further progression by them on the same leaves) ...I was reading some of your old posts and i realized I made a mistake by transplanting the clones straight into a 3 gallon pot...I know now that i should of started 1 gallon and transplanted...So I was "thinking about transplanting to 5 gallon pots just to make up for the error...but to be honest im not sure if i can swing that cash wise by monday.....

the pictures are of the 12 plants split up under 2 lights...I only gave them 500 ppm this past feeding...and im making the switch to 12/12 this monday so I was going to give them the flowering nutriens at about 600....maybe 700 ppm?

10 of the plants are 17-19 inches...2 of the plants are around 12-15 inches

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7723/90466842.jpg
(all around 18-19 inches)

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4476/123olu.jpg
(I swear i thought i saw some tacoing...but i think im just paranoid)

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/284/1234bem.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4453/photord.jpg

all these were taken right before they go to bed too..

i'd push the nutes harder than that. push them until you see the leaf tips start to burn and then back them off a bit.

-shake

some of ur pics seem to show ur pots setting in those clear plastic trays that catch runoff and keep the floor dry. soil grown plants should NEVER be allowed to set in standing runoff.always drain to waste. do you elevate ur pots above these catch basins ??

negative, Im usually just pro active about draining the trays...after each watering I wait until it accumulates and just drain it manually into my water can...then outside...(wash my water can can vigorously too,wash trays every two weeks,clean room once a week)...I never thought about elevation to be honest.

and the strain is "chemdog"...not kempdog...lol

So Ive been having a humidity problem since i started flowering, as fall progresses Ive noticed the humidity dropping for us(40-30) but today I went in my room at first light and the humidity was 19%!! That's the lowest Ive ever seen it, so I put a big container of water(10 gallon) in there to try and add some moisture along w/ a little cheesy vicks humidifier(probably the cheapest u can buy) and I misted my room and turned off a fan

...and my humidity is barely at 32%. Now what I'm thinking is that my room exhaust fan is just too strong and that whatever moisture is in there , just gets sucked up too fast...I mean I have A giant charcoal filter(like 32 inches wide,3 ft long,8")...and a vortex fan sucking 650 cfm...but my room only requires 275 cfm(i figured w/ the filter and 20-30 feet of ducting it balanced out....but Im not sure now?)

So I was thinking of just getting a good sized humidifer($100-200,one that could handle 600-1000 square ft and has at least 1.5-3 gallon container)

you think this would fix my problem? or should I be thinking differently?any recommendations?

So simple, and yet so complex. Words to live by.
Thanks, Doc Oc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

the most important thing you can do is learn to read your plants. there is no set formula, merely a guideline. your ladies will tell you all you need to know, you just have to learn what to look for. so when you do something, pay attention to how they react.
-shake

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Steezyd, Mind to not bring in spider mites or other critters when you wash your can outside. They can come in on your shoes and clothes too. Beware!
:jumphappy:

I know I had spider mites a couple years back(this is my 1st grow in years) but i was just young and lazy then...I actually dont even wear shoes in the grow room & i try to be very aware of what im wearing(usually change or go in just boxers).but it think the biggest difference is cleaning on a regular basis. I also sprayed the outside of my room w/ some doc doom spidermite spray(lines,corners)....not this time! lol

darnit, I have some serious yellowing going on since i turned the lights back this past monday...its only on the new leaves though as the bottom to mid seem to be green...I really hope this was due to the serious low humidity wave this past week(but the humidity has been declining for 2-3weeks slowly)...Ive been able to stabilize the RH to 30%...until i get my cool mist humidifier tonight that will have to do...

Ill post some pictures as soon as i can

here is the yellowing I was talking about. feel free to ask anything if I havent made it clear.(1st plant is 22-24 inches, 2nd plant stockier about(14-15inches)

when is the last time you fed?

-shake