adding lime to soil w/ plants already in.(help needed)

[steezyd]

ok so Im using sunshine no.4 soil less mix(no nutrients in soil) and i tested my runoff after the first week of veg and the ph is 5.7-6.0...I would like it 6.3-6.6 but i didnt mix any dolomite lime into my soil like i probably should have...So what should I do to raise the ph? i know giving it higher ph'd water is a quick fix, but that doesnt seem the way to go, can i put some lime just at the top of soil?maybe 2 inches deep or so in certain parts and just continue to water?

any advice would be great, im not a total rook, but no expert by far

thanks in advance

steezyd Reviewed by steezyd on 10-06-2010. adding lime to soil w/ plants already in.(help needed) ok so Im using sunshine no.4 soil less mix(no nutrients in soil) and i tested my runoff after the first week of veg and the ph is 5.7-6.0...I would like it 6.3-6.6 but i didnt mix any dolomite lime into my soil like i probably should have...So what should I do to raise the ph? i know giving it higher ph'd water is a quick fix, but that doesnt seem the way to go, can i put some lime just at the top of soil?maybe 2 inches deep or so in certain parts and just continue to water? any advice would Rating: 5

[mscaboo]

yea you can top dress the soil with the dolomite lime.may not be the best but will get you by,just make sure you mix it in as best as you can.i would add only 2 tablespoons at the most.make sure you remix the top soil whenever you can

[steezyd]

Im in 3 gallon pots and only need to raise about .5...still recommend 1-2 tsp?
Also does it need to be applied as even as possible?

thanks a lot, im going to go get the stuff tonight

[Dutch Pimp]

dissolve a very small amount of powdered lime in a gallon of water, and raise your Ph, slowly

[headshake]

ok so Im using sunshine no.4 soil less mix(no nutrients in soil) and i tested my runoff after the first week of veg and the ph is 5.7-6.0...I would like it 6.3-6.6 but i didnt mix any dolomite lime into my soil like i probably should have...So what should I do to raise the ph? i know giving it higher ph'd water is a quick fix, but that doesnt seem the way to go, can i put some lime just at the top of soil?maybe 2 inches deep or so in certain parts and just continue to water?

any advice would be great, im not a total rook, but no expert by far

thanks in advance

sunshine no.4 is pre-buffered with dolomitic limestone. it also has a "starter nutrient charge". you should start feeding 7-10 days after transplanting.

it is mostly sphagnum peat moss. this has a very low pH (around 3.0-3.5). the this coupled with the fact that the lime can wear off can cause pH issues.

when did you transplant into the 3 gal containers? if it's been less than 2.5-3 months it's not a lime issue.

what is your ingoing pH? what are you using to test with? how do the plants look?


-shake

[steezyd]

I just transplanted the clones last Monday(27th) the ingoing PH has been 6.5 pretty much on the money...Im using a new milwaukee digital PH tester, I was planning on only calibrating once a week, but now i think i will test it before each time w/ the buffer solution since ive never used the brand.

The plants look ok, il take some pics today and post, there is some leaf curl(upwards) because i overnuted them slightly(didnt know about the 7-10 day wait after transplanting) and i was reading this vague feeding chart the wrong way, ive been following one that breaks it down by day and i think it will be helpfull ( http://hugeharvest.com/feedingschedule.pdf )

I flushed each plant w/ 1 gallon of ph'd RO water w/ 1/4 tspof flushing solution
last night(curl jut started day before) so tonight i was going to resume there feeding with a real low (250 ppm)

what do you think?

[headshake]

you really need to flush the plants with at least one gallon of water per gallon of soil. the 1 gallon in a 3 gallon pot is not a flush. a flush is excessive amounts of water leaching mineral salts out of your medium. you want to get your soild back to basic. take as many variables out of the equation that you can, or simplfy things.

your pH lowering that much isn't horrible. just bump your nute mix up. you can run it up to 6.8. then check runoff. and don't so much worry about runoff pH if your plants look health. do they look healthy?

are you feeding normally with RO water? if so you need to use calmag (or molasses) and get your PPM to ~200-250 and THEN add your nutes.

i wouldn't feed anything until you figure out what the problem is. i would use water (and if RO calmag or molasses).

dolomitic lime takes time to break down, and is a long term solution. your would be better off using hydrated lime. but be careful because too much is toxic and it can burn your roots.


-shake

[steezyd]

Ok, I'll post pics later of plants so you can see how they look health wise.
I will flush today w/ 2 more gallons of ph'd water at 6.8 and 1/4th tsp of flush solution per gallon.

i will test the run off again after the last gallon and see where im at...but what i want to know is, is giving them water with a ph of 6.8 a permanent solution? does it hurt the plants?and if i got the hydrated lime(which im more then willing to get) would that be permanent as well? or would i have to keep adding it over the course of the grow?

I do have cal mag and use a tsp per gallon in RO water...here was my feeding schedule the very first week...I think you will see where i went wrong pretty fast.

day 1 Transplanted clones 9/27 10pm...first watering at 1030pm
w/ 1/2 tsp of cal mag
1/2 tsp liquid karma
1 tsp grow
total ppm 275 ph of water 6.6

day 2 1tsp cal mag
2 tsp grow
1 tsp LK
475!!!! ppm 6.5 ph

(day 3 i had a 510 ppm) (day 4 515 ppm- still looked healthy too)
I should probly menion that i was only using 1 gallon of water for all 12 plants

(day5 550 ppm (thought i noticed yellowing...but couldnt tell)

Day 6 550 ppm (very very slight yellowing on 1-2 plants)

day 7 (monday 10/4)600 ppm definate curling of leaves upward(taco) but not much more yellowing...

day 8 (tues- did what i thought would be a decent flush to clear out all the excess nutrients i gave them)

day 9(wednes - did nothing )


when looking at the chart i gave the link too, I realized way to many nutes...correct? when i do resume feeding say friday...is 250-350 about the right ppm like chart says?


thanks a lot man....huge help

[steezyd]

here are pics from day 5(first day i thought i noticed yellowing on particular upclose pic of plant)

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9151/photo22z.jpg


http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/127/photo1vx.jpg


here my setup to:
-2 1000's,charcoal filter,wall a/c unit in a 5 ft wide 9ft long 6'6 ft high space w/ (a drip system eventually)for now I'm watering by hand.I keep the temp between 73-78 degrees, I want to get a humidifier so i can have the humidity on lock, but it generally stays between 53-63.
-I use a RO filter,Sunshine soiless mix as medium,(nutrients I use are) CNS Grow,Ripe & Bloom w/ Liquid Karma and Cal Mag. The Light started off at 36 inches and i worked my way down to about 21-23 inches over the course of the week.
-vortex 700 cfm fan w/ 8 inch ducting(room only needs 300 cfm but w/ big charcoal filter and 20 ft of ducting
probably about right) w/ 2 regular fans in room for general air movement

[headshake]

i will test the run off again after the last gallon and see where im at...but what i want to know is, is giving them water with a ph of 6.8 a permanent solution? does it hurt the plants?and if i got the hydrated lime(which im more then willing to get) would that be permanent as well? or would i have to keep adding it over the course of the grow?

giving them a higher pH water/nute solution will slowly raise your soil pH. nothing is ever "permanent" as we are creating an artificial environment with micro environments contained within (your pot/soil is a micro environment; microbes in the soil break down the salts and make them available for your plant to uptake).

hydrated lime is fast acting, and like most fast acting substances does were off relatively fast. it's more of a quick fix.

day 1 Transplanted clones 9/27 10pm...first watering at 1030pm
w/ 1/2 tsp of cal mag
1/2 tsp liquid karma
1 tsp grow
total ppm 275 ph of water 6.6

day 2 1tsp cal mag
2 tsp grow
1 tsp LK
475!!!! ppm 6.5 ph

(day 3 i had a 510 ppm) (day 4 515 ppm- still looked healthy too)
I should probly menion that i was only using 1 gallon of water for all 12 plants

(day5 550 ppm (thought i noticed yellowing...but couldnt tell)

Day 6 550 ppm (very very slight yellowing on 1-2 plants)

day 7 (monday 10/4)600 ppm definate curling of leaves upward(taco) but not much more yellowing...

day 8 (tues- did what i thought would be a decent flush to clear out all the excess nutrients i gave them)

day 9(wednes - did nothing )

i haven't even looked at the chart yet but i can already tell that you over fed them. your pH is off, but in this case lime isn't going to fix it. i mean you will be able to raise it with the hydrated lime but you will always be "chasing" your pH. (i can't get the pdf to pull up.)

like i said the sunshine no.4 has dolomitic lime in it. this is a time tested, stable method of maintaining pH and is use by virtually all manufacturers of potting mixes. there is no way yours has wore off already.

the mass amount of nutes are causing some type of lockout. flush like a mad-man and watch your new growth. (by the way, hydrated lime is easy to flush out, dolotmitic not so much.)

keep in mind that it takes a bit of time to see change in plants in soil. 7-10 days is a good range. (remember those microbes i mentioned earlier? it takes time to break those salts down and make them available to your ladies.) it's not like hydro where sometimes you can see changes over night.

when looking at the chart i gave the link too, I realized way to many nutes...correct? when i do resume feeding say friday...is 250-350 about the right ppm like chart says?

thanks a lot man....huge help

correctomundo! (like i said, i can't pull up the chart). you should only be feeding once to twice a week depending on how heavy/light. use properly pH'd water in-between. with the calmag for RO of course. if you are using mineral salt based (non-organic) ferts then you need to flush about once a month!

and you are welcome! good growing.


-shake