(pics)PH problem plants + form

E-indoor
E-soil
E-2-4 gallon plasitic buckets
CSL-Happyfrog, some has extra perlite, some with clay balls on bottom. all have clay balls on top to help maximize soil use.
SCL-perlite.
SCLR-slab ph, some are as high as 7.5 and others are around 7.
E-tap water.
E-7.6 ph (i now have a meter and i lower it to around 6.4.
E-Age of plant, 1 month.
E-botanicare, pure blend. veg cycle, 2-1.5-3 or something like that.
E- flushed yesterday with PH'd water. but every 3-5 days as needed in the morning(beg of light cycle)
E-Lighting source and distance from plant 18-26 inches. 400w mh.
E-Air temperature 79-81 day, and 74 at night.
HD-Reservoir temperature.. a little bit lower im guessing.
E-Air % Relative humidity, humidity is at a constant 40%(anyone want to breif me as to how this seem to be so naturaly regulated? i seen it get higher after i water and it evaporates but it always settels at 40%)
E- 18/6
E-Type of ventilation your room has, an occilating fan, and a fan sucking air out.
TR-Did you pre-soak your media in pH corrected solution? no

heres the pics of my hawaiiXskunk by nirvana.

one looks good (i began LST today on one, as it was getting too tall and out pacing the others.) and the other one was the better looking a few days ago but the LST one has surpassed it but still showing signs of burn or lockout. of need of nute. or phosphorus def, or potassium, i forgot which one i narrowed it down to. which can then be a ph problem.. which it most likely is. given the 7.8 read yesterday that i hope i was able to bring down to 7.1 today.

heres the pics of some female seeds a friend gave me... i dont knwo the strain but the ph generalized problem i see here is the purple/red stems, the blueish outside of the leaves with light green in the middle.. also the claw leaf/ washboard type leaves... there is one plant i cut of a big fan leaf to help give good light to the newer growth underneath...

ive been watering with 6.3-6.5 ph water. for 2 days now, before that it was about 7.5 ph water, for one month... imho they are looking pretty good for having been in such an alkaline enviroment.

also both were topped at 4th node, and i dont know if it contributed to the problem but i have now created a very bushy plant. should it continue growing.

and heres the final nlXhaze.


looking good except for a few leaves, that have few holes in them, i think from the ph being too high.. and the lower leaves yellowing as u can see.. the one leaf u will see is the worst one yet...

also most of the leaves at some point, get these little wrinkles, up the entire leaf.. as if they are dry... maybe ya can see it. little zigzags.(this is with all the plants) i think it might be from the light being too close. but always atleast 18inches away with a fan on 24/7

bump..

i'll bet fifty to one that your issue is coming from those "clay balls" normally called hydroton for hydro growers

They MUST be presoaked.....usually for several days to lower ph as normally their ph is in the sevens.

Get the hydroton out I'm sure that's what's causing your problem and it WILL continue until they are gone.

Good luck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

i'll bet fifty to one that your issue is coming from those "clay balls" normally called hydroton for hydro growers

They MUST be presoaked.....usually for several days to lower ph as normally their ph is in the sevens.

Get the hydroton out I'm sure that's what's causing your problem and it WILL continue until they are gone.

Good luck

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can u please explain how i might get them out?, i can cut the bottom off the container, and somehow replant it. but the roots havent taken over the soil yet so i cant really transplant it without tearing a bunch of roots.

i did some reading elsewhere and they were explained as great for on the bottom of soil, to give them water and air. if stinky agrees with you ill remove it..

until stinky gets around, ill maintain the 18/6, water with ph'd 6.3 with no food only once the soil drys out a lot.

Forget about the ones on the bottom. Get the ones off the top. Replace them with perlite if covering the soil surface is important to you. Then make sure that you aren't lowering your fert pH TOO much.
You answered the res temp question... are you running a RES in a soil grow? Are you pre-mixing your nutes?
Do you have soft tap water?
How long have the plants been in those pots?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

Forget about the ones on the bottom. Get the ones off the top. Replace them with perlite if covering the soil surface is important to you. Then make sure that you aren't lowering your fert pH TOO much.
You answered the res temp question... are you running a RES in a soil grow? Are you pre-mixing your nutes?
Do you have soft tap water?
How long have the plants been in those pots?

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plants those pot for about 1 week, and others in the 2 gallon pots about 4 days.

no res as of yet, i have been thinking about but i have been using gallon jugs. that i leave outside next to the tent, so its room temp maybe a little cooler..

water is very soft... ph is around 7.5-8.

im thinking the res might just be one more thing that can go wrong so i havent gone there yet.. like any mechanic says, the more moving parts, the better the chance of a failure. so i figure, tent, soil, lamp, air, and the water is the one thing i havent maintained, imagine and its broken..

after the flush i fed with half strength, pure blend gro bontanicare nute 2-1-3

not that covering the soil is important to "me" but i read it can help make use of top layer of soil.(stink is this true or not really? and i earlier went prodded through the soil about an inch barely to check moisture and there was a root i uncovered... atleast on 1 -2 plants, i dont see the need to stick my fingers in every single one, if they all look the same.

perlite it is. unless u think i dont even need it..., then i will just remove the clay balls.

now as for the health of the plant and how do they look?

i'll post more pics 2morrow to give u all an idea of the change.

Stinky,

would the hyroton balls cause the ph to spike? like i am seeing?

if i keep watering with 6.5ph water, will that be enough to bring the ph of the soil down, if the flush of 1 gallon i gave the other day didnt completely work to lower the ph..

now if i shocked them with the rapid change of ph how will this affect them.

how much longer should a rebound take should things be okay.., would basicaly one dry cycle and then one more watering be the trick?

bump

The untreated hydroton can cause a pH spike.
Are you pre-mixing your nutes? You don't use a reservoir in a soil grow unless you are doing a drip on a timer but even then you have to be 100% certain that your nutes are stable in the res. I've just recently worked on a grow where the pH problem was actually being exacerbated by a grower who pre-mixed her nutes in gallon jugs and over time the pH was dropping.

heres one of the fems and the whole garden.. im curious where i should be looking for the change? new growth or the old ugly leaves.

heres a great question... i put ph down about 50 drops to one gallon to lower from about7.8 to 6.6 and both my pen and the indicator solution match. and then i let it sit over night and then i check it in the morning and the water is above 7 to 7.2? how can this be... i also, to the water of both jugs and poured them into eachother atleast 5 times each. firgue a quart going from each back and forth and one always test higher than another one no matter how much ph i put down i put in... i wonder if the govt did this to the water to make it difficult to grow plants with the wATer.

but things are looking good ill post some more pics...

heres the other fem.. im goign to put a lot of close pics of this because i think this is the one with the best chance. explosive growth in coming days. maybe a week.

heres the nl hazes.. i dont but the first one ill show u might be just a cool pheno... maybe not idk...but its sus posed to be nl haze.


ill also post the one that has some holes in the leafs and curling of the edges of tthe leafs.

Can you answer the questions? Am I to take that as a yes, you are pre-mixing your nutes? Don't do that unless they were designed for it. A hydro nute is meant to be stable over time, diluted, in a res, at pH 6 or so. Even if you use a hydro nute, adjusting the pH into a different range may make it less stable.

Use your nutes immediately after mixing. Don't let them sit.

sorry stinky..

no i am not pre mixing... or atleast heres my process of water... take it from the spout, or tapwater,, let it sit over night maybe 3 night to help evap whatever will evap, chlorine, bleach, and maybe some of the cloramine, and then i check the ph very thourogly. ive only added nutes at half strenth one time so far and i added them right before i watered them.... i adjust it at all points....


and thats my watering/feeding style.

no res...

one thing i noticed with my soft water(7.6-8.3)(ph7, why is it so difficult for me to lower the ph, i end up with the tap water have to add over 50 drops to get below 6.7 and another 30 to get below 6.4 (per gallon) and with store bought water and it takes just a few drops to get it where u need...

i always double check the ph pen to the liquid indicator stuff.

pics tomorrow night.

Is your tap water from a well or from the city? Soft water that takes a lot of pH down may have other crap in it. Or your meter might be not reading it right. What is the actual ppm, and if you are on a well, what is the surrounding landscape, especially the type of bedrock?

Something is not adding up. Have you tested the straight tap water, before leaving it out, with the liquid drops? Low ionic strength solutions do not register correctly on cheap or failing electrodes.

Chloramine does not evaporate. Neither does bleach (there should never be bleach in your tap water anyway!). Leaving it out to be better for plants is a myth. The only way to get chloramine out is by charcoal filtration, like aq fish tank filter or brita, and it's not necessary. If your water is considered safe to drink, it is safe for plants, although a fully-organic grow might have some issues at high levels of treatment chems.

You only have to check and adjust your pH once, and that is after adding ALL the fertilizers and before giving it to the plants. Quality ferts like Canna actually have a pH buffer in them to bring you to the correct pH if there is not a high level of interfering junk in your tap water.

thats the interesting part..

i live in an reletively upperclass suburb, which i believe gets water from lake michigan. but it of course is treated. with what i dont know, i do know sometime ill go take a shower or brush my teeth when the water is running and close to ur face, it almost smells like chlorinated pool water(its subtle but i know that smell)... yet safe to drink..

i know that we do not get water from the ground, 2 towns over and i know i would have some of the best water around, but thats not the case..

i found it very perplexing tho, i filled the jug, let it sit for min, get to room temp, i have 75$ oakton pen, that the lady i thought was trying to sell me something that was just more expensive but she told me with the cheeper ones, they often fail, and ppl bring em back and yada yada yada.. soo i got A good one, interesting, the liquid tester always matches exactly to the pen, with a slight degree more of error but its close!

say in the PM i test the PH of TAP, its at 7.8 i then add 50-70 drops of PH DOWN.. i cant get it to really move off of 6.7 to go lower... i check it the next after noon and its at 7.0-7.2 and the liquid stuff matches the ph pen.

i havent had a problem with store bought water(when it comes to lowering ph, most are at 8 and go down 6.5 with 5-10 drops) but i want the plants to have something stable, not one brand today, tap tomorrow, a 3rd and maybe 4th brand of water.

Do all your fert mixing BEFORE you even touch the pH. When it sits, CaCO3 in the water, and other carbonate from atmospheric CO2, can react with the acid and neutralize it.

I recommend just adding your PBP to your tap water BEFORE you adjust it. It's buffered. You may find that you mix up a gallon of your nutes, shake it around, test it, and find that the pH is already correct. If it isn't, it will take less adjustment to get it right.

Oh- and your meter is a perfectly fine one.

heres an update of all the plants. please questions and advice please.

start off with a whole garden shot, then close up of F'd up parts of the plant..


heres my current routine. 18-6 light.. im using store bought r/o or distilled type. starts off around 5.5-5.6.. thats pretty good for now, i havent checked run off lately. . its 2.5 gallon jugs. i just to day put about 1 teaspoon of epsom salt into the 2.5 gallon jug. we'll see results soon i hope.

ive given 1 dose of ferts a few days ago but im going to hold off for now because im pretty sure the soil has enough stuff in it already... ive read people can use happy from all the way through veg and into flower with just proper water.. then just a few nute in the middle of flowering and flush at the end.

heres some more pics.

bump.. please some advice as to why things might seem to have come a complete halt.

pH of RO or distilled water means NOTHING. Ignore it. Only pay attention to the pH of a solution that has a stronger ionic strength.
Your plants look great.
a TEASPOON of Epsom salts in a gallon? Yikes. That is NOT good. Next time you water, do a HEAVY watering with plain water and then give a complete grow fert at half strenght. Why did you add epsom salts? There's NO Mg deficiency on your plants.

i figured this would be one of those cases of epsom salt is not a miracle cure.... but it was a lil less than 1 teaspoon per 2.5 gallon...

Do i need something like cal-mag, if im going to us RO/distilled water.