Neon green with Rust spots Pls help

I think that I have a phosphate df, I got the rooted clones on 10-27 they were in rockwool, cut out and transplanted into square ½ gallon pots, I didnâ??t feed enough I gave 1 ml of bio grow per gallon with 1 ml superthrive per gallon. Watered till I saw run off, also mixed neem oil with half strength dutchmasters pen, and Dutchmaster Grow and lightly sprayed before I took them in the garden.
I then waited until 10-30 and watered until I saw run off with only ½ strength superthrive per gallon, and also foliar fed again this time with penetrator, liquid light, foiltec grow, I noticed what I thought P def around Thursday and maybe N but that could have been yellowing form over watering 10-30.
I have also discovered Iâ??m probably watering to much at once. So Friday 10-31 I mixed up Bio Grow 10ml per gallon ph 5.8 and fed twice 30ml each time. Was going to feed twice today but am concered about the water they definitely look over watered, I have also noticed some powder mildew starting to take place, So I reduced my humidity from 55 to 45. And was thinking of moving them into the flower room under 2 600 hps as high as I could get them which is about 6 ft with light movers on 18-6 spaced out more than being cramped up, I also thought this would help dry the medium up and also give the plant more useable energy, I have a Co2 Gen with a fuzzy set 12hr at 800ppm and constant fans blowing to move the air around.
Should I spray the plants with neem oil to help with the few plants that have mildew, or just use tap water I think tap water is around 9ph, what are your thoughts any help would be greatly appreciated. THe Majority of the Strain is HS Hindu Skunk, a few Jack ripper mixed in.


E-indoor or outdoor, Indoor
E-soil, soilless, coco, aero, or hydroponic ( 50%cocoâ?� 25% lightwarrior, 25% pert
E-specific medium,,
CSL-Soil type/brand Biococoâ?�
HCL-Hydro/aero/soilless system type, Soilless
SCL-Anything you have added to the soil, nothing
SCLR-Soil or slab runoff pH 6.0
E-Water source Tap
E-Source water pH City
HRT-Source water EC (if hydro)
E-Age of plant Clone 10-16-08
E-Type of fertilizer Bio Grow â??1.8-.1-6.6
E-Rate of application (if hydro, this is your PPM number, preferably after each component is added) 4-7 ounces of water every 3 days or as needed, I have been overwatering
E-Lighting source and distance from plant 12in 2 4 bulb t-5
E-Air temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period)71-78 constant
HD-Reservoir temperature
E-Air % Relative humidity was 55, changed to 45
E-Lighting schedule 24

just off the top of my head I would say they appear locked out and rootbound. But with the medium you are using, I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough to say......I do not as a rule play with coco and you I'm not familiar with "light warrier" so while I strongly suspect lockout......I'm not at all sure what your ph should be.

Those are my suspicions anyway....ph lockout/and or rootbound and/or both.

Everything I have read has told me between 5.5 and 6.5 for soilless grow. I read 5.8 was Ideal though, Light warrior is by fox farms agro ponic medium is basically like a seed starter medium. This coco threw more for a loop, all the research I had done was on soil grow. I was talked in to a Coco So why not, do you think the browinsh could be a fungus or more nutrient's, based on what they have got, I gotta say it should be a def they are hungry.
Thanks for such a speedy response. Rootbound after only being in the pot for less than a week, is that possible. Thanks

If they are hungry and ph is off.....it doesn't matter WHAT you pour in there because they simply won't be able to absorb it. Coco has its own issues so I don't use it.....the less hassle the better and I consider coco a hassle. (sorry for the mini rant there...:jointsmile:)

If transplaning them into something larger doesn't work....then i'd take you straight back to lockout. I do hydro myself and something about your plants says abnormal ph to me....but that's just my guess.

Good luck.

Would transplanting into a 3 gallon pot be to big, and also would 2 transplants in less than a week be to much stress. I planned on finishing in a 3 gallon pot anyways. Thanks again

And honestly.....I'd stop foliar spraying ANYTHING on them until Stinky or somebody with good soil experience comes along. The list of stuff you've put on the leaves is stunning......and probably helping to suffocate your leaves as well. Figure out the issue where the roots are and give the poor leaves a break and some breathing room.

nuggl....if you've transplanted them into something ALREADY within the last few days and you know that you are giving enough nutes then your issue will most likely be ph lockout and that's honestly how they look to me anyway.

I don't know what to tell you except this If they were MY plants I would take some regular tap water....right from the faucet and I would ph it to 6.5-6.6 and water them once with that. If I saw some sort of positive difference I would know ph is the problem and that it needs to be higher.

And again......if they are newly transplanted I STRONGLY suspect ph is your problem.

I think I figured it out, I got the clones on monday from the best place in town, and think that it is a burn from what they were feeding them. The first watering was around ph 6.5 ish, I didn't have a digi yet and now I have one. Friday feeding was 5.8 for sure, I always double check with digi and 1 drop ph tester, to make sure they are in the same league, I fed them tonight and was at 6.0, I also moved them into the big room with 1200 w hps actually 2 growzillas I just loosened a bulb in each fixture since they are hardwired. They are on a light mover which only moves like 1 1/2 foot, they are like almost 6 ft high. Also I think that my drainage might be to good if there is such a thing, I have been watering 30 mil twice a day, I have accidently watered the same plant twice and I get run off out the bottom so 60 mil = run off. Any comments questions or concearns. Thanks in advance

If they look better.....great! Problem solved.

I have a feeling you will have more issues though....if they don't improve i'd move your ph up to 6.5.

Good luck.

I now think that when i originally transplanted I didn't give the right ph. I should have given them 5.8 due to e what they were given, and I am using the same style of growing they used. So not only did i cause the transplant shock I also added a PH shock, I think I'm going to try experiment, with 1 tray and flush with 5.8 let dry out and continue feeding schedule. But I do think I have a P def, slow growth, purple stems, and due to they were using sensi bloom, which has high p, Whereâ??s stinky I need help.

Look I'm not going to argue with you. They are your "Precious" so you must do what you think is right.

Mixing three mediums with different ph needs doesn't even make sense to me. After googling Light Warrier from Fox Farms I'm even more convinced the issue is ph lockout and if it weren't Sunday I'd call my hydro man and double check. But alas....it is. While it has no real nutes it says nothing about it being "soilless" but coco presents its own issues as well and sometimes has to be pretreated etc ......all the correct roll of dice for ph abnormalities....not to mention some pretty classic photos to boot.

I wish you the best of luck with your growing but I will not be back. Again...I stress that they are YOUR plants.....you must do what you think is best for them.

Good luck.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you but you stated early you are unfamilar with a coco grow, that is what I'm growing in, a 6.5 ph would def cause lock out. I'm here to make friends and find answers, not the other way. I respect your input I see the amount of post you have, so don't take it as an insult. I'm just posting all the info so those more knowledgeable can help.
I just flushed 2 plants and the run off was 6.2, 1 gallon of 5.8 ph water. It kinda bothers me you said you won't be back I don't understand, I really appreciate your help , I am a Newb no doubt about it. Thanks

Thanks guys I really appreciate the help, I used to think there was no comparison between here and Ic based on the knowledge this site had. But now I lean toward the other one. I filled out the form. WH stated he was unfamiliar with coco, then got mad when I didn't follow his advice. Only one person tried to help me, and believe me I greatly appreciate it weedhound, thanks for taking the time. I think I just found a new home where people don't base whether they respond, by the amount of post someone has, or please enlighten me did I just slip through the cracks or was it a dumb question most didn't want to bother with. Sorry If I took this the wrong way or maybe I approached this the wrong way. If I offended anyone then I'm sorry. Like I said in my other post, I'm here to learn and make friends .No question I'm a newb but ya gotta start somewhere, I will gladly post updated pictures if anyone is interested( although I think I figured it out 10 ml is to much for them so over fert). I will say this site is where I did all my research and am grateful to have found it. Thanks.

How long has this problem been going on? 11-7-08
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...) Hand watering, Coco, 50 coco, 25 light warrior, 25 pert.
What STRAIN are you growing? HS, JR
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) Clone
What is the age of your plants? 10-16-08 I got 10-27-08
How tall are the plants?12-14 inches
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? VEG
What Technique are you using? Soiless
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) clones were in rockwool
What is the Water temperature? tap temp on cold
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? White
What Nutrient's are you using? How much of each if using multiple? Bio Grow 7ml per gallon
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? orginally 1080ish, mainly cause tap water was 390 out of tap, just got RO system, and ph is perfect with nutes added
What is the pH of the "Tank"?
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? Ph meter yes
When was your last watering? 1/4 gallon tonight
What is your water temps? room temp
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)NA
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients?
What size bulb are you using? 2-600
What is the distance to the canopy? 18 in
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? 55
What is the canopy temperature? 71
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)71 pretty constant
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) I'm running a sealed room with 375cfm cooling 2 growzillas, sucks from underneath shed through lights and out attic
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? not really but plants moved
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Hard
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Just started using RO,started at 6.2 Was using tap at 5.8,with a ppm of 390.
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched No
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? yes neem oil 10-27 neemoil, now have Hot shot no pest strips
Are plant's infected with pest's No

Tell me what you think about this root system, I thought pretty good for only 2 weeks veg, I just wished the top looked as good. Also what could be causing this leaf issue, its mainly on the bottom leaves this is a picture of a lower leaf, It's like neon green, with rust looking spots, I think it is probably a high ppm of my water and or chlorine in the water. I just transplanted tuesday, wed, into 3 gallon pots, I wish I had flushed before I transplanted them a lot less water to waste (lessen learned that will go in my notebook I also have a accurate calender of maintance). I watered until I had run off and the Ph was 6.2 and ppm unstrained was 1080. but if you subtract the ppm of water only that should be about right for ferts. Tonight I also mixed in some tea with the feeding, I let them dry out pretty good after the transplant, before watering them. What are your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

Those are rootbound. Transplanting was a good idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozzyleven

Those are rootbound. Transplanting was a good idea.

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Aloha Nuggiespl

When you use R/O water be sure to add a tsp. of Cal/mag per gallon.
R/O and distilled will work for a while, then your leaves will look like that.
I was having the same problem when using rainwater in coco.
Thought the nutes would supply enough Calcium and Magnesium.
Nope!:(
Stinky Attic got me back on track.:)

Best of luck.
Weezard

Also I have read a lot of different techniques regarding watering, Water till runoff, or water less twice a day, what are your thoughts. Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nuggiespl

Also I have read a lot of different techniques regarding watering, Water till runoff, or water less twice a day, what are your thoughts. Thanks

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Hmm, thoughts?
That could take years:D.

So, I'll jus' try to focus and share a few hydration opinions.

Lazy guy here. I use the "kick-it" method for dirt. (Yes I still have a couple mudfoots).
For a beeg pot just kick it, you can feel and hear if she needs a drink.
For the young-uns, lift.
Once you know what a dry pot weighs you can easily guage when to water.

The amount, really depends on the grow media.
Good drainage? go for runoff.
Bad drainage? Fix that!
Very dry and crusted soil? Shame on ya. Add a couple drops of detergent to break surface tension
Hydrotron? Keep it wet.
Rockwool/coco? Don't soak.

Don't forget to aerate your water just before you pour.
That's how roots "breathe".
Surround a root with air and it will dry and die.
Surround roots with stagnant airless water they will drown, die and rot.
Basically, it's common sense.

You sound like you've done this before:jointsmile:
I've been around for quite a while too.
Been growing since '67, but I still learned plenty from reading the stickys here.
Hint hint, nudge nudge, ;);). :D

Regards
Weezard

Well thanks for the complement, I have done tons of research but this is actually my first go. Thanks

im a little curious to see how they are doing

I now think I have a Cal Mag def and proaly iron since they all go hand in hand, And thanks to some fellow members, I thought this thread was dead I also have a post Neon green with rust spots, u can check it out. I started that one cause no-one was helping me in this thread. Let me know what you think, these are a little overwatered but that was yesterday, am going to feed them with cal mag plus and nutes.

Does anyone know the effect of adding cal mag with a tea (benificials) and also Ph. I think if I remember right, you don't want to adjust the ph when adding in Tea cause the ph down will kill the beni's. I am using RO water, Thanks in advance

Did you read the application instructions for superthrive? One drop per gallon. I took a dropper and a scale at my lab and figured out how many drops are in 1 mL and you gave ST at FORTY TIMES the recommended application rate. Nooooooes!!!

Read the flushing sticky at the top of the troubleshooting section and flush to get your soil cleared out and the runoff up to 6.7, then feed with 1/2 strength base fert only, NOTHING ELSE, and let the pots dry out significantly before watering again.

Mixing different media and all kinds of fertilizers causes problems. Just stick with the basics until you have a better sense of what the plants need. You should never use a supplement until you understand WHY you need it and HOW it works.

guess I'm not the only one who gets irritated by folks doing things without really thinking them out in advance, hmmmm?

Also noticed that changing the ph fixed the problem and too much crap in the pots was also indeed part of the issue....hmmmm......not a bad guess was it?

Nuggle, what upsets me is someone who obviously has NO experience with growing arguing to someone who has SOME experience with growing. I'm here to help folks.....I think your issue could have been solved quite a while back.....if you were willing to listen but you weren't. THAT's the kind of thing I don't have time or desire for. I want to help people who are willing to learn....not argue about how much they really don't know.

Your plants look much better and I wish you the best of luck with growing. But again, I won't be back .

Good luck.

The instructions say 1/4 teaspoon per gallon or 1ml per gallon for reduceing stress. Or 1 drop per gallon for daily use, I have used it twice in 3 weeks, is that wrong, Should I use the 1 drop daily per gallon, or no.

Does it look like a cal mag def, I have read that people using the Ro water need to add cal mag with every watering, most people say the base nutes will cover this and this what I thought. However the base nutes manufacture base recommened feeding on regular water not RO. My Tap water is 390 so I elected to use Ro.

Weedhound Thanks and sorry for being stubborn, I want to learn but as I said .I will not just take what someone says and run especcialy when said unfamilar with coco, I have read alot and based on the grow bible and other post I have read 6.5 seemed high for a soiless grow, or basically hydro, but I will listen to the almighty stinky attic cause she is the master.

Also stinky will you look at my other post Neon green with rust spots and tell me what you think.

Thanks in advance.

I have to agree with you there nuggie....I too believe Stinky is the master.

Good luck. :)

I'm merging that thread with this one since they are on the same basic set of problems.

Lose the ST entirely. That higher dosage can be applied ONCE and once only- you can't keep at it. You are causing more problems than you are solving with that stuff.

You MUST run calmag on RO water. There's even a sticky about it in hydro because calmag and ro water are major contributors to my carpal tunnel syndrome... :wtf:

It looks like a multi-nute lockout from some combination of N overdose, soil pH, or whatever, and soil pH drops off fast when you aren't running your calmag in your RO water...

Dood.
You're in COCO?!!!!! Oh holy hell, no wonder your calcium is such a problem, if you run coco you have to run a coco nute that has added calcium in it, or calmag. Coco scavenges calcium wicked bad, and leaches out potassium salts if it isn't rinsed right.

You are going to have to flush those plants according to the sticky, if you haven't yet, and start feeding with RO water that has calmag added up to 250ppm and THEN your base nute.
Meanwhile, go grab yourself a bottle of GH Micro and put ~5-10 mL in a quart sprayer with one drop dish soap and do a light foliar mist 1-3x per day until you see some color returning to the leaves.

no, only part coco. Part rockwool and/or something else. Also some Fox Farm light warrior.

amazing that a hydrdo grower might know what the symptoms oh ph lockout look like.........:D

Rockwool bleh. I'd never mix RW and dirt... had some problems in the past doing that.
Light warrior is coco based too I think. Even with some LW in there, if there was raw coco added, it could be causing Ca/K problems.

But Calcium deficiency fo' sho' and pH lockout fo' prob'ly. Or fo' pretty sho'. Or... ow my wrists hurt :(

Clones were rooted in rockwool I had to cut them out. So as far as ph what do u think 6.5-6.7 a lil high sounded like u just realized I was in coco thanks

Weedhound, look guy I'm tired of your insults, or trying to make someone feel stupid. With exception to your first 8-11 post everything else has been neg. I respect constructive criticism but enough from you, you definitely aren't making things better here. I have researched, off and on for over a year before I decided to grow anything. Unfortunately it was on soil, and not soilless mix but thatâ??s beside the point. I told my hydro guy what I wanted to do, and he told me how to do it. So please either back off or don't come back like you have said twice already. Maybe we got off to the wrong foot, I have apologized multiple times so no more.

Stinky Iâ??m grateful for u taking time to help me with my problems you rock, Thanks. PS I wasnâ??t questioning your recommended Ph level, just wanted to make sure u were referring to soilless mix and not soil. Cause it sounded like originally, u were unaware I was In coco.

Well, I didn't actually see you were in coco but my previous advice stands, but yeah your pH can be a touch lower in soilless. Even so, with that mish-mash you have going, especially the FF stuff, personally I would aim to have it on the higher end of the soilless range for sure.

Thanks again stinky

Are you familiar with Teas and Ph I would assume you are ( please don't take as n insult). When you add tea to your nutes, is Ph that critical since the Beneficialâ??s process the nutes to make it easier for the plants to use. If I remember right Ph up and down can kill the beni's, and also will the cal mag plus, kill the beni's. When I mix everything up when using tea the ph is like 5.7-6.2, will I be fine or should I add ph up. A friend of mine (Aquarium guy) said that R/O water doesn't really have a ph, I know it has very low ppm but not sure if there is any truth in the first part.

Weedhound you were right, I have no problem admitting you were right. I wish you would have left out the part about being unfamiliar with coco. This would have been fixed a week ago. But appreciate your honesty. Thanks again you guys. I will medicate for all 3 of us and wish one day to thank u in person. Until then keepem green. ps working on that last part.
:hippy:

Your aquarium guy is 100% right on the money, read the chemistry link in my sig. RO by definition has almost no ionic strength and therefore its pH is of no consequence.

Tea is a broad term. There are beneficials packaged for hydro use- SubCulture comes to mind- that are quite happy in a solution containing calmag and pH adjusters. It's all about how MUCH is in there. Like, in the ocean, it's really salty but microorganisms of all sorts have adapted. Teas are useful for more than just the bennies too. Organic acids especially humic are found in compost teas, and those are great for stabilizing pH and making nutes available. If you have any doubts as to whether your bennies are suffering from addition of up/down, use a hydro beneifical product that you know will not be damaged. I can't tell you too much more than that because I don't run teas per se and haven't bothered to do much experimenting with them. But after you mix your nute solution I would still bump the pH up just a hair to get it closer to where the coco-based soil/soilless mix you are running needs.
I gotta run... sorry... :(

Stinky, how long until i can flip them, I have height restrictions kinda, like 65 inches or 5ft 5 in. They are like 18-22 in now, I only wanted to veg for like 2 weeks but, newb problems, and thought getting them healthy was a better idea. They are 23 days in veg, I would like to do Sea of green single cola plants, I have used the search feature and didn't find anything, as far how to cut or trim for a single cola.

Thanks again, By the way they look much happier and green, the foliar feed has helped 10 fold.

Flower them pretty soon if you have a height restriction- even if there is like another 3 feet before you acutally HIT the light, you get heat burn well below that.
A good SOG depends upon growing from clones, but if you are doing it with seed plants, flower them as soon as you see the nodes go alternating, and arrange them like this:
-Put the tall ones around the edges of the room, and the short ones under the light's hot spots
-Strip any scruffy, thin growth that gets no light, up to about 3" off the top of the soil, and remove any side branches that are lanky and pathetic. Leave 4-5 very strong leads per square foot.
-Never cut or remove the tallest branch on the plant. This turns into your main cola

Should I flower and wait 2 weeks till after stretch is over, and did u mean 3 in or 3 feet. I already arranged the tall ones on the edge. Or trim them now I would think after flower. Also do u think I would lose much yeild by flowering the first 2 weeks with 1200 watts to reduce stretch and then turn the other 2 bulbs after stretch is over. I have 2 growzillas on a light mover. Thanks

Here is the method to my maddness, check out this post if you have time.
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Unofficial Coco Coir Growers Thread

Stinky thanks for all your help,

Three INCHES. This is not necessary unless the undergrowth is very dense or your humidity is high enough to cause mold worries.
You can start with MH to reduce stretch then switch to HPS after 2 weeks, but if all you have is HPS, and you have appropriate watts for your space, stretch is going to be mostly determined by genetics, although controlling night temps so the day/night difference is 10'F or less will help too.

Whats up with (picture 269) what causes the leaf to do that, and also what causes the stem to get barcky like that is that (pic 276)anything to be concearned with. They look much better thanks to stinky. Day 6 of flower.
Will they stretch much in the 3rd week, I'm starting to get concearned about height issues? I have alot of dense growth at the base of the plant and was thinking about cutting for clones.

Any one heard of water cloning thinking about giving it a shot. Takes a little longer but check it out. International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Cloning in plain water under fluoros

Can't wait till 8 more days to turn the other 2 lights on, 2400w = 6785.7 lumesn per square foot. I might even be able to increase the Lumens psft, by attaching polly to my lights, and pulling it down at angle. I know the lights get hot but would come up with something. The growzilla doesn't really get that hot since I'm sucking air from underneath the house through lights and out the attic. Any ways thank again everyone that stops to help, happy T-day, I'm full as a tick.