US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
Russia to equip Iran with 'game changer'?
Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:31:40 GMT
Russia plans to equip Iran with advanced antiaircraft defense systems amid reports that Israel will soon acquire advanced smart bombs.
Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport has disclosed that despite US opposition, Moscow intends to empower Iran by supplying the country additional air defense systems.
Moscow has already delivered 29 Tor-M1 missile systems to Iran under a $700 million (£386 million) contract signed in 2005.
Reports, however, began to surface as early as 2005 on the possibility of another deal - the delivery to Iran of S-300 surface-to-air missile systems that can complicate any aerial strike on Iranian nuclear facilities.
"If Tehran obtained the S-300, it would be a game-changer in military thinking for tackling Iran. That could be a catalyst for Israeli air attacks before it is operational," said Dan Goure, a long-time Pentagon advisor, in late August.
"This is a system that scares every Western air force," he continued.
Israeli officials themselves have also commented on the issue, confirming that the system, once acquired by Iran, would complicate a potential attack on the 'numerous, distant, and fortified' nuclear sites in the country.
Tel Aviv and its ally, the United States, have threatened to launch air strikes against Iranian nuclear facilities under the pretext that Tehran, a signatory to the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), has plans to develop nuclear weapons.
This is while the UN nuclear watchdog in its latest report on Iran announced that it could not find any 'components of a nuclear weapon' or 'related nuclear physics studies' in Iran.
According to the September 15 report, Iran enriches uranium-235 to a level of below 5 percent - a rate consistent with the construction of a nuclear power plant. Nuclear arms production requires an enrichment level of above 90 percent.
News of the possible Tehran-Moscow S-300 deal came just days after the Pentagon notified Congress of plans to sell 1,000 GBU-39 smart bombs to Israel.
The 'bunker-buster' bombs, the Guided Bomb Unit-39 (GBU-39), have been developed to penetrate fortified facilities located deep underground - such as Iran's nuclear facilities.
Despite US and Israeli threats, however, Iran has declared that it will not halt uranium enrichment and has begun intense defense preparations.
On Monday, dozens of Iranian fighter jets, surveillance planes, interceptor aircraft and radar drones took to the skies in a joint three-day military exercise.
The maneuvers also involved testing a surveillance network equipped with state-of-the-art systems for identifying enemy aircraft.
In mid-August, Iran's Air Force chief, Brigadier General Ahmad Miqani, announced that the country had revamped its fighter jet fleet to fly distances of 3,000 kilometers without refueling.
The upgrade allows Iranian aircraft to fly to Israel and back without needing to refuel.
Iranian military officials have also warned that Iran would not hesitate in taking the necessary measures to protect its sovereignty - including the closure of the Strait of Hormuz - in case the country comes under attack.
The strategically vital waterway, between Iran and Oman, connects the oil-rich region to high seas. As much as 40 percent of the world's sea-transited crude oil passes through the strait.
In further preparations, the IRGC has recently equipped its navy fleet with high-tech weapons systems capable of targeting any vessel within a range of 300 km (185 miles) from its shores.
Should the S-300 system become operational in Iran, it would effectively rule out Israeli air raids and seriously complicate any US aerial bombings, according to George Friedman - the director of leading US private intelligence agency Stratfor.
"Back Georgia and Ukraine for NATO membership and you'll see the S-300 to Iran. It is a very powerful bargaining chip and a major deterrent to US actions in the region. Moscow is playing very strategically on America's obsession with Iran," he said in late August.
Press TV - Russia to equip Iran with 'game changer'?
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perhaps its time to put off the damn precondition to "exhaust" the diplomatic efforts... other than that I see it as an intention by US for the diplomatic process not to succeed.
We talked to Nuclear Soviet Union for god's sake! this is still non-nuclear Iran!!!!
why i say this? because I hear in the media that diplomatic efforts are failing... well, to me thats the same as calling stoners criminals cuz we have criminalized marijuana! u know, its an oxymoron loop!
these are just 2 examples: Washington Times - MCINERNEY: Don't kowtow to Iran
FOXNews.com - Iran Warns Against Attacks on Nuke Facilities - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News
we say we dont talk to them and yet claim diplomacy is failing and its time for yet another war... this one WILL BE BLOODY,i just have a feeling, all sides will suffer quite a bit and it wont matter who will suffer more, cuz such a war will definitely result in a worldwide crisis that can cripple us in current economic situation... speaking of backlash on America
lets truly exhaust the diplomacy so at least this time we won't be the warmongers! at least we will have backup that we did EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY COULD to prevent a disaster b4 jumping into the ring!
sure the iranian regime is NUTS, but they have a military and i really dont see how we can target them in a way to destroy all of them idiots and prevent the atomic bomb, such an attack can only guarantee they will get atomic bomb and use it in self defense and u get the idea we will use it too perhaps and there we go WW3: Nukes Arise... I already see the game titles released in the next year or two (C&C generals + Zero Hour was released just as iraq war started and it so realistically had terrorists favorite weapons: suicide bombers, etc) we're still stuck in iraq for Christ's sake! and that place is a flat desert which had 0 military capacity in 2003 compared to what iran possesses... we are talking a country almost twice the size of iraq with one of the strongest militaries in mideast region! i mean u probably wanna call me out on it, true, but read this b4 u do it
and thats where the disaster element lies locally!
MILNET Brief - Iranian Conventional Forces
and lets not forget, they do have quite a bit of potential to hit israel from multiple fronts, they maintain very warm relations with Hizballah of Lebanon and Hamas and Islamic Jihad (same Palestinian groups who have been buggin israel for too long now)
plus they have 1 official and major ally as well!
AFP: Iran-Syria sign defence pact
again dont get me wrong, I for one hate those mullahs and their regime, but we gotta be realistic, unless all the talk about our military's stretching thing is bullshit and we still maintain full capacity to wipe their defense/military/nuclear/infrastructure capacity within days or weeks
cuz these bastards are not gonna hide in a ditch like saddam! thats for sure, they got enough people brainwashed and signed up on suicide bomb volunteers and hey, we claim most weapons and IEDs n stuff in iraq and afghanistan is from iran and we are gonna be going to walk right into the source of those things?!?!
idk, all i know is i certainly want to see our diplomats do something for once instead of our military... how come all the heroes and down to heart patriots must be from military... are our diplomats not patriots to save the nation another war?! they better get into serious action b4 time is lost
we cant afford nuclear armed iran but we cant afford another full blown war either, not at the current situation... even thought of a military draft is crazy even if we get the financing for our war
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
UPDATE:
I donno if this ever got any coverage in our media or not but it is apparently a deal!
Asia Times Online :: Middle East News - Attack Iran and you attack Russia
also on another note
China, Russia, India Blocking Iran Attack? | ForeignPolicy | AlterNet
Quote:
U.S. condemnation of Russia's military action to defend the breakaway region of South Ossetia, combined with the determination of the Bush administration to install missile systems in Poland and the Czech Republic, virtually guarantee that Russia will not do anything to help the United States foment more violence in its neighborhood.
Beijing owns much of the U.S. debt, continues to be one of Tehran's largest trade partners, and is not about to be dictated to by Washington. India has defied the United States by entering into a pipeline deal with Iran. Exhaustive three-year nuclear treaty negotiations between the United States and India are utterly stalled. If the treaty is not presented to Congress in September, it will be dead.
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
UPDATE 3:
It may a lil late! or may not... I just have heard "rumors" they already own a number of these systems and they are just looking for more...
Website: Croatia has sold S300 to Iran | Iran news | Jerusalem Post
what is all the fuss about and why the war will not reach its targets fully and become a failure?
check this page out to find out that Russians also have some superior tech that are apprently falling in Iranian's hands and will be a grave threat to any aerial/missile campaign performed by US, Israel & allies
S-300 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
perhaps this can show it better and simpler
[YOUTUBE]p8-zpuDlRUo[/YOUTUBE]
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
sorry for multiple posts but this just turned into a spontaneous research project for me since my school thanks to Ike will be clsoed 2moro as well!!! :D:thumbsup:
Israel, Iran, and the US: Nuclear War, Here We Come - by Jorge Hirsch
read this article once u read the above posts 1st, and verify and see how many of these predictions have already come true
this is the scary part @ the end, btw the article totally makes sense to me in the light of developments after this article has been written some 3 years ago
Quote:
Otherwise? Welcome to the new world order, where the U.S. can nuke any non-nuclear country at will. Refrain from having a nuclear deterrent at your own risk. All nations that can will become nuclear, others on their way will be nuked, and all-out nuclear war will become an absolute certainty. Bye-bye, world.
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
If they go..they will go with the big dawg...:cool:...not F-18 Hornets.
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
Economy is fucked up and there's only one way out. Lets go to war. America loves a good war and its so good for the economy. And we're going to have to stop kicking the illegals back to Mexico. We're going to need them to help build bigger bombs.
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerweed420
And we're going to have to stop kicking the illegals back to Mexico. We're going to need them to help build bigger bombs.
um i donno how this last part helps/works, we already have thousands of atomic/nuclear bombs! we dont need more or bigger ones:cool:
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingimam
I for one hate those mullahs and their regime
Why do you hate them?
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelho
Why do you hate them?
DO U REALLY WANT TO KNOW?
ok i tell u why, and no its not cuz im afraid they will or will not nuke Israel, cuz i know they dont got the balls to do such a thing
here it goes
*** WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT ***
my fault i could not find any video with english version
[YOUTUBE]jhlbTsVDtjM[/YOUTUBE]
i was among the crowd u see in the beginning of the film a few years back.
my best friend died that night. they threw him alive from his 3rd story dorm room. he was like my brother.:(:mad: and many more of my friends have been slashed or punished in different ways for having a girlfriend or holding a party and drinking alcohol, from since i remember, this was goin on, since 7th or 8th grade
and there are thousands of examples like this
its no secret they do these things... just do a couple searches on google or youtube... plenty of evidence out there
however, this needs something more useful than military action to fix... there are brainwashed idiots in hundreds of thousands there and u just cant kill them all in a war... all the war will do is to line up more people behind them in the name of defending the soil of Iran and legitimize these bastards even more
these are people who are smart enough to make a deal with US if US wants to sit down and talk without preconditions... they are different than al-qaeda's type of extremists... they are opportunists as well and like to hold their power, so im quite certain a deal can force them far better than a war
just look @ what we did with Libya & al-Gaddafi
we turned an enemy into a non-enemy
same can be done with the mullahs, i strongly believe
i suggest if u really wanna know the pain of Iranian people and why they are stuck in inaction u watch the movie Persepolis
it explains it to a good extent with a few flaws tho...
they got cheated out of their revolution... the voted for a "democratic republic" instead of a dictatorship monarchy and their feelings were sharp and hot cuz it would be their beloved religion @ work.... until they figured that their religious leaders had a different view...
i still think, its better and really better if we can push sanctions on them, that will only increase the internal pressure of the pot and it has to explode from inside at some point.... it will be far cheaper than wars and far far more effective... but with US attitude towards russia and only pursuing iran after the nukes threat it only shows that our pressure goes up only for our interest not for iranians' interest and freedom
its time to get them on the table and do some str8 talks and i know for fact these bastards are more than willing to avoid a war and make a deal, but they dont like to look weak accepting preconditioned talks and if they gotta deal with a war they will do it in such a situation, and will portray themselves (also according to international law) that they were attacked pre-emptively and unprovoked and certainly if we use nukes on them, that will only help them and their ideas to survive longer and gain more popularity
its a nightmare when u think how easily people of all countries whether Iran or US get brainwashed so easily... hence my signature
it is happening on both sides, right now! US needs a threat to justify its military presence in oil region and guarantee the oil interest
Iran needs an enemy & threat to push hard on reformists and opposition and to keep the military draft active and the ideas of martyrdom and that kinda crap alive
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingimam
these are people who are smart enough to make a deal with US if US wants to sit down and talk without preconditions... they are different than al-qaeda's type of extremists... they are opportunists as well and like to hold their power, so im quite certain a deal can force them far better than a war
just look @ what we did with Libya & al-Gaddafi
we turned an enemy into a non-enemy
same can be done with the mullahs, i strongly believe
its time to get them on the table and do some str8 talks and i know for fact these bastards are more than willing to avoid a war and make a deal, but they dont like to look weak accepting preconditioned talks and if they gotta deal with a war they will do it in such a situation, and will portray themselves (also according to international law) that they were attacked pre-emptively and unprovoked and certainly if we use nukes on them, that will only help them and their ideas to survive longer and gain more popularity
in support of this argument, i cite (perhaps) the most hated president in the world
Iranian President Sounds Off On Israel : NPR
Quote:
Ahmadinejad said that diplomatic relations between Iran and the United States should continue to open up, citing a willingness to cooperate to uphold security in Iraq.
Asked what steps might help ease those relations, Ahmadinejad said, "We've never entered the United States and caused problems for the people here, but the American government has done that to us. So, our first proposal is that the government has to stop doing that."
this is only to show that they rather have their power and relations with US just like many others such s Saudi Arabia and most other arab nations who enjoy the highest level of relationship with the US and yet fail to have much of any kind of freedom.
They are not too eager to have a war that will perhaps be apocalyptic at least for the region.
i still dont know why we refuse to talk to them, thats just stupid. thats asking for trouble for us and for the rest of the world by bullying against a loony but weaker bully
boycotting your enemy will never get u peace, negotiations do, and we as the main objector to Iran's nuclear program have yet to hold 1 direct session of talks with them. only citing invalid excuses that Europeans are talking and getting nowhere, well thats cuz we want the talks to fail by not directly participating and plus, when did iran have any problems with europe? their fear is the US not germany which used to be their largest business partner in europe till a short time ago
if we dont talk it means we dont want to talk and it means we are willing to take the next option which is conflict. thats why i really want OUR diplomats to do something on this issue, not europeans not mediators, we must talk to them directly even if it has to be in secret... this problem has a non-violent solution cuz the military option will only deepen the current crisis and perhaps lengthen it as well
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingimam
Some things to be worried about in that abstract: "India defied the US". The Canadians (as much as some of them here embarrass themselves), are very much in terms equal to Iran with regards to fossil fuel supply to Canada if we take into consideration trade partnering.
Canada supplies a large chunk of our crude, would we actually jeopardize that over ideological difference? I think not, and we should IMHO think hard about the ramifications of a middle eastern power other than Israel posessing a nuclear device. The question remains, does an Islamic state's posession of a nuclear device (such as a weapon) create instability? Just ask India, and then wonder why they are supportive of a trading partner (India) having one...
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
Some things to be worried about in that abstract: "India defied the US". The Canadians (as much as some of them here embarrass themselves), are very much in terms equal to Iran with regards to fossil fuel supply to Canada if we take into consideration trade partnering.
Canada supplies a large chunk of our crude, would we actually jeopardize that over ideological difference? I think not, and we should IMHO think hard about the ramifications of a middle eastern power other than Israel posessing a nuclear device. The question remains, does an Islamic state's posession of a nuclear device (such as a weapon) create instability? Just ask India, and then wonder why they are supportive of a trading partner (India) having one...
my problem is not that i deny or believe a so called Islamic government's possession of nuclear technology or weapons for that matter can be tolerated.... my problem is that we have the key to peacefully solve this and yet we refuse to even sit down and talk with the enemy
problem with India vs Pakistan is far more complicated and imo irrelvant to the subject of iran, if u have read the history u know that india and pakistan were originally one country, there were clashes between muslims and hindus and under rule of britian on that land Britain decided that we massively move all muslims to one side and keep hindus on the other thus creating pakistan and india
to best of my knowledge nationalism of iranians of all religions and races and tribes has appealed over their differences in the past, check the history and u will find that people vs people has not taken place until the islamic revolution.
and pakistani indian relations have deep roots amongst their people
India and Pakistan have had wars, Iran and Israel have not! and i know the frustration with world powers over irans stance regarding israel but u gotta understand if we dont at least let true & fair negotiations proceed we are choosing Armageddon.
and if u want to look @ it historically u should go back to the Persian Empire's time of Cyrus the great and find out what jews think of him. he literally rescued the Israelites in the land of Babel.
i dont want to shift the discussion to those subjects tho, so back to the point:
after all if we cant solve the problems with words and deals there will be wars.
time to bully our way thru is over.... britain, france, portugal, spain, netherlands, etc have all had their time of dominance in the history and most failed harshly because they failed to realize its time to change the policy and the game...
same will repeat if we dont "outsmart ourselves". we can be blinded with pride & the power we possess and thats what worries me cuz when those empires failed, there was no nuclear weapon to end the game but now there is and i highly doubt that will do any good in the long run for any human being
I'm not saying we gotta legitimize the mullahs or accept a nuclear armed iran... no, what im saying is that there are diplomatic ways and deals that can be made and compromises that can be made to achieve a peaceful resolution.
extremists on both sides will lead to nothing but war and conflict.
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
I do agree; diplomacy has been an after thought in current American foreign policy. Blowback has to be considered, as imperialist desires have created a hardheaded enemy.
This should not be considered sympathetic to the Pan-American POV currently supported by right wing extremists such as Rush, or McCain. India has done a decent job of contending with another nuclear power, one that is so close to their border.
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingimam
i was among the crowd u see in the beginning of the film a few years back.
my best friend died that night. they threw him alive from his 3rd story dorm room. he was like my brother.:(:mad: and many more of my friends have been slashed or punished in different ways for having a girlfriend or holding a party and drinking alcohol, from since i remember, this was goin on, since 7th or 8th grade
Well... thats indeed a very good reason to hate them... i didnt imagine you had actually suffered such things... so forgive me.
US & Israel vs Iran & Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelho
Well... thats indeed a very good reason to hate them... i didnt imagine you had actually suffered such things... so forgive me.
forgive u for what? u have not done anything wrong!!! u just asked me a question
it does not matter if I have suffered from these bastards or not... thousands more have indeed suffered far more than I personally have.
there is a reason to hate them, but look @ me, i hate them to my guts and i still dont war with them, cuz the war will not solve anything, certainly will not "liberate" and free Iranians from what is now their regime... its oppression in peace now, it will be double oppression in violence when war starts
Iraq is a textbook example, sure Saddam was a bad person and it was a good thing for the world to see him go... but when u do things with the wrong intent and with lies, this is the result: NO RESULT
Iraqis have died for lies, Americans have died for lies, British have died for lies, and according to the very American intelligence reports al-qaeda is nowhere close to its death and has become a worldwide cult that many idiots follow, thus America is no safer imo cuz of the war in Iraq, Bin laden and Zawaheri are still alive and on the run and working against us, Iranian regime has gotten its most dangerous enemy destroyed (Yes, believe it or not Saddam was far more of a threat to them than US or Israel ever were, he indeed imposed an 8 years of bloody war on that regime and the people-with west's aid) and thus now having much more power and influence in mideast, Iraqis are really not much better in means of material life than they were under sanctioned Saddam's Iraq and US is just now far more hated than it was on sep 12 2001. Al-qaeda gave US a very good opportunity by that stupid attack for it to fix its foreign policy, and what did we do? we just tripled the intensity of the same stupid foreign policy that had gotten us to that point.
The world was with America on toppling Taliban, even Iran was on US side.
Who was on our side regarding Iraq? and even few of those nobodies on our side, have since defected our side
so, in conclusion, another war will not make USA any safer at all nor will it free Iranians from their oppressive regime, it will be from muddy nasty ditch to a deep dark well type of move for everyone.
and thats why the USA and NO OTHER STATE should sit down and talk to these people and figure out a deal, or else my friends, our world will be over the way we know it today... yes the way we know it today, the post 9/11 world will turn into post iran invasion world which will be far more worse!!!! for everyone not just Americans or Iranians or Israelis, it will impact almost every nation on this planet.
this war is not going to be won conventionally, and i doubt it will ever be won by any party involved
at best it will become another vietnam
