Problem mechanical timers (not shutting off) & lighting on seedlings Q?

I've now had two timers "go bad" on me. This is a problem because obviously I can't be constantly worrying if my shit is working. :mad:

I got a mechanical electric timer (you know, the push the little knobby bits up or down on a dial kind) and it worked for a day but then decided it didn't want to go off when it was in the off section. Nothing would override that. Now I have a second one (different brand) which is doing the same thing, except if you push the override button it does shut off. WTF? Anyone else have this? Am I really just that unlucky to get two different duds? I thought maybe it just didn't like somewhat short increments of being turned off and on but that's dumb, that's its job!

What an annoying and stupid problem to have.

So, I just got a digital timer one in hopes there is something inherently wrong with mechanical ones or me or 3rd time's the charm or something. Bloody hell!


See, I was using it to keep my seedlings warm in this british "summer" by having my HPS turn on every couple hours for a half hour. (they were well protected under a dark coloured water catchment tray and a towel around the edges to keep light leaks out) It worked brilliantly for keeping it warm in there (have a thermometer/humidity probe in there) but then yet again the POS timer failed and the light was on for over an hour and it got to 33.4ºc (92ºf). :( I hope they're OK. They're just babies, in that white/yellow sprout cotyledon stage (thread with a photo but I need to update that since I've got 3 sprouted now) just waiting for them to be ready for light. I'm sort of confused on when they should be put under light. (?) Now, or do I wait for tiny little green leaves? I keep thinking that if this was in nature and not an indoor grow that they'd already be exposed to light so maybe they should, but I've read otherwise too. :confused: Anyone have any insight to give to the newbie?

Thanks, if you made it this far. :hippy:

It sounds like the first true set of leaves hasn't even come in yet. Keep them under the flouros. I usually wait till they have about 4 sets of leaves and a nice little root system, sometimes 2-3 weeks. I've always had more problems than good things come from rushing mother nature. In the mean time you might want to get a cheap heating pad instead so you can set the dail and keep it constant since you are throwing your money away on hydro costs using your hps, in the long run the heating pad would save you money. As for the temp spike just ride it out and make sure it doesn't happen again, that's all you can do.

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Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy

It sounds like the first true set of leaves hasn't even come in yet. Keep them under the flouros. I usually wait till they have about 4 sets of leaves and a nice little root system, sometimes 2-3 weeks. I've always had more problems than good things come from rushing mother nature. In the mean time you might want to get a cheap heating pad instead so you can set the dail and keep it constant since you are throwing your money away on hydro costs using your hps, in the long run the heating pad would save you money. As for the temp spike just ride it out and make sure it doesn't happen again, that's all you can do.

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I only have an HPS. I know it's not the ideal and that I should have more of the blueish spectrum via Metal Halide or CFLs but I had to budget a bit and am under the impression this is acceptable enough.

Maybe should I put them by the window? Sort of ease them into the light? I have a discreet place to do that.
Is it the norm to put them under the light at this stage? I couldn't quite work out if I should wait for leaves to appear or if they appear once they are under light.

It's not costing me much in power ("hydro", I had to think what you meant and then I saw you were from Canada and realised) to have the HPS turn on for a short time. My costs will run about 20p per day when I'm on 18/6 and I don't think I'll find a heating pad for that little. It's just an additional cost and I'd like to avoid that when possible.

Thanks for your response. :)

Dont keep changing your lighting patterns around.....nature doesn't turn the lights on and off so you shouldn't either.

you CAN leave the light on 24/0 for seedlings if you're not worried about the cost of electrical but constrantly going back and forth is bad for your plants. Give them a night and a daytime......one each in a 24 hour period.

So you have only the hsp turning on every few hours for half an hour, and no flouros? this is your only light source? Just to let you know my power in Can is a whole lot cheaper than the US. Also the power up phase of a light is when it draws the most power and puts a load on the ballast and bulb. That means alot of wear and tear on your system.

If you can keep the temp right I would just put them in the window for now, that's what I do. If you don't I would get a cheap socket and put an incandesent bulb for heat, and a cfl for light. Save you HSP because you're wasting it right now and the plants are barely using the light it's providing.

:hippy:

I completely agree with Chrissy....you need to use the right tool for the right job. You may think you have good reasons for your methods.....but I seriously doubt your plants will see it the same and you are already lining up for some problems.

Good luck.....hope you work it out. :)

The timer thing is a sort of a separate problem, by the way. I just seem to get duds and wondered if I was alone there. That's an annoying problem but not my biggest question.

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Dont keep changing your lighting patterns around.....nature doesn't turn the lights on and off so you shouldn't either.

you CAN leave the light on 24/0 for seedlings if you're not worried about the cost of electrical but constrantly going back and forth is bad for your plants. Give them a night and a daytime......one each in a 24 hour period.

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I am only using the HPS for its HEAT, the seedlings are in total darkness underneath a dark coloured catchment tray. I suppose I might not have made that very clear with my questions.
I am just unsure when I am supposed to expose them to light.

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Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy

So you have only the hsp turning on every few hours for half an hour, and no flouros? this is your only light source? Just to let you know my power in Can is a whole lot cheaper than the US. Also the power up phase of a light is when it draws the most power and puts a load on the ballast and bulb. That means alot of wear and tear on your system.

If you can keep the temp right I would just put them in the window for now, that's what I do. If you don't I would get a cheap socket and put an incandesent bulb for heat, and a cfl for light. Save you HSP because you're wasting it right now and the plants are barely using the light it's providing.

:hippy:

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I'm in the UK, as with everything here our power is horribly overpriced, but even still to run my HPS is only 20p per day, so I chose that as my heating option instead of a heating pad. (that's a good idea about just using an incandescent for heat though, can't believe I didn't think of it) They are in the dark 100% of the time right now, the HPS is only being used for its heat to maintain a temp for the seedings, which are under a dark tray seeing NONE of that light.

Yes, the HPS is my only light source for the plants. It would have cost me considerably more to buy a ballast which could switch to Metal Halide and then the additional cost of the MH bulb. I thought of fluorescents on a separate thing but ended up deciding the HPS was enough, perhaps this was a mistake but I am trying to keep costs down where I can. This is just where I am at currently.

I'll take a photo of them and post it. I am just trying to work out if they should be in any light at this stage. The wording I keep finding about it is unclear.
Will leaves form in total darkness or do I need to expose them to light in order to get green leaves and begin photosynthesis?

Sorry for the dumb question, it sucks being a n00b. :o

I stick mine under lighting when they crack and you can see that the seed is going to hatch. You can leave light on them even when you first germinate.....just don't get it too close or the heat of the hps will fry your new opening leaves. A couple of feet (like 3) is good.....closer and its too much for young seedlings whiich I have discovered firsthand. :)

Ps.....I DO use flouros.....but start my hydro babies right off under mh 250w.......they do fine......just watch the heat issue. ;)

edit: I HAVE discovered that using HID lighting vs flouros for seedlings may slow your geminating down a bit.......that's a lot of light for a youngster.....but be patient and don't get the light too close.

Oh good, thank you! I can give them about 3 feet of space between the HPS (250w) no problem.

here is that photo:

[attachment=o200404] <- click me!

So you think they are OK for light at this stage? Like a simulated day-night cycle? Seemed logical since if they were outdoors they would be getting light but I keep second-guessing everything since this is all new to me and I don't want to screw it up.

If they're better off being eased into it by a window or something I can do that too.

It's time to give them light for sure. You don't need an MH but a cfl with screw right into any extra lamp you have and will be perfect for what you need and cheap. After that just throw it into your most used light fixture in the house and save money till you need it for your plants again. My comment about the start up wasn't so much about all the power it uses but more about the fact that bulbs and ballasts don't last forever and the more you turn it on and off the quicker and more likely it is to burn out or fail, which will cost you more money to replace.

The leaves will only turn green once they get some light on them. If you can keep a plastic dome on them of even a pop bottle top with the bottom cut off for a humidity dome, just remove it a few times a day to changew the air. If you wrap a white peice of paper around it it should filter the light just enough.

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Originally Posted by PlainJane

Oh good, thank you! I can give them about 3 feet of space between the HPS (250w) no problem.

here is that photo:

[attachment=o200404] <- click me!

So you think they are OK for light at this stage? Like a simulated day-night cycle? Seemed logical since if they were outdoors they would be getting light but I keep second-guessing everything since this is all new to me and I don't want to screw it up.

If they're better off being eased into it by a window or something I can do that too.

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I don't cover my seedlings from light at all the dirt will keep them dark and when they pop up the light it waiting for them. I would just put them on a warm window sill under a pop bottol dome till the get a few sets of true leaves then move them under the hps.

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Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy

It's time to give them light for sure. You don't need an MH but a cfl with screw right into any extra lamp you have and will be perfect for what you need and cheap. After that just throw it into your most used light fixture in the house and save money till you need it for your plants again. My comment about the start up wasn't so much about all the power it uses but more about the fact that bulbs and ballasts don't last forever and the more you turn it on and off the quicker and more likely it is to burn out or fail, which will cost you more money to replace.

The leaves will only turn green once they get some light on them. If you can keep a plastic dome on them of even a pop bottle top with the bottom cut off for a humidity dome, just remove it a few times a day to changew the air. If you wrap a white peice of paper around it it should filter the light just enough.

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Oooooh, I see what you mean. Yeah I definitely don't want to wear out my HPS and ballast.


Thank you so much for the help and the ideas. Very appreciated.

The white piece of paper as a light filter is inspired genius. :thumbsup: I'm going to do that. I will use a small clear tub of tupperware for the humidity dome and tape the paper on top of that. Fortunately things stay pretty humid here so that shouldn't be a problem but it keeps them from being hammered by the HPS and fans at this early stage.
I think this plan instead of the window sill may be better because I worry about temp control by the window.


*gulp* going to get those starter cubes and little sprouts into soil and ready for light. :)

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Originally Posted by PlainJane

Oooooh, I see what you mean. Yeah I definitely don't want to wear out my HPS and ballast.


Thank you so much for the help and the ideas. Very appreciated.

The white piece of paper as a light filter is inspired genius. :thumbsup: I'm going to do that. I will use a small clear tub of tupperware for the humidity dome and tape the paper on top of that. Fortunately things stay pretty humid here so that shouldn't be a problem but it keeps them from being hammered by the HPS and fans at this early stage.
I think this plan instead of the window sill may be better because I worry about temp control by the window.


*gulp* going to get those starter cubes and little sprouts into soil and ready for light. :)

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Leave the cubes the way they are they don't need more soil yet. Your better off to leave them in the miffin cups and to wait till some roots poke out the bottom and sides. If your place is already humid then instead of a humidity dome just find some way to let the air flow but still suspend the paper above it some how. If ssedlings are too moist they sometimes suffer dampening off and the stem gets mushy at the soil line and they flop over. You spent the money on feminized seeds so you don't want that to happen.

If you look at your picture you'll see the stems are a little curvy, that's because if they would have been under the light they would have grown towards it strait up, with no light they only had gravity to help them guess where to grow. You'll also see that they are just a little stretched but that to is because when there isn't enough light they need to stetch to find some.
Don't worry about it, I'm just telling you so you understand a bit better. Once they are under the light they should straiten out pretty well and even if they don't once they get bigger you'll never notice.

Just don't over love them or over water them(#1 cause of dead seedlings) the cube should be evenly moist and only watered once the very top starts to dry out. A seedling in soaking wet cube will drown and damped off. If you really want to help just gently breath on it and give them some CO2 and a slight breeze. but don't worry you'll get sick of that quick.;)

Thank you Chrissy, very good info and it makes a lot of sense. Now I wish I'd read that post earlier. I already put the cubes into soil. :o It felt like a slightly bad idea as I was doing it (just for the sake of doing two different things and shocking the babies) but like a dummy I did it anyway. My brain has an acute case of the farts today. I am hoping they will be OK since they're still in their cubes just with soil around them. *nervous*

Here are photos of what's going on:

[attachment=o200410] [attachment=o200411]

Good temp, good humidity and decent circulation and light breeze in there. I have my fingers crossed.

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Originally Posted by PlainJane

Thank you Chrissy, very good info and it makes a lot of sense. Now I wish I'd read that post earlier. I already put the cubes into soil. :o It felt like a slightly bad idea as I was doing it (just for the sake of doing two different things and shocking the babies) but like a dummy I did it anyway. My brain has an acute case of the farts today. I am hoping they will be OK since they're still in their cubes just with soil around them. *nervous*

Here are photos of what's going on:

[attachment=o200410] [attachment=o200411]

Good temp, good humidity and decent circulation and light breeze in there. I have my fingers crossed.

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There are no roots sticking out of the cubes so the transplant wouldn't have stressed them and neither will popping them out of the soild and just letting them be in cubes a bit longer. I've never really stressed a plant by transplanting so long as I've never damaged the roots. The set up looks good. and the two fans but you will need a fan to pull that air out of the room later on not just move it around the room but that's later.

I had a flick through the posts and it doesn't look like anyones answered your original question about the timer.

I had two timers that did the same thing they were the 3.99 ones from tesco.

In the end I went to my local growshop said to them what I was running (not something that's reccomended in tesco "hello I need a timer to run a 400w HID growlight" doesn't sound too smart. But the guys in the growshop sold me what I needed for 15 quid and I havn't had a problem since.

Oh yeah.....nope never had that problem. I think around here silence is taken as an "I don't know"......do you really want to read 20 posts saying no?

Thanks everyone. :thumbsup:

Chrissy, I do have an extractor fan/filter. I think you can see the passive intakes and part of the carbon filter in one of the photos but here's a better shot. I'm a n00b but I'm not a total 'tard. :p I can't be having dodgy odours going round. I think the cabinet the husband and I built is pretty decent, I just get in a muddle about the plant milestones, it seems. :o

[attachment=o200486]


Also the sprouts are looking a bit better (straighter) after having some light. They are on a normal day-night cycle now, with that filtered light via paper on a tupperware thing. Here is a photo without the "light filter" over them so you can see.

[attachment=o200487]

I used to have problems with those Intermatic timers not shutting-off, till I started doubling-up the red 'off' keys. I put 'em side by side, and if one fails to swithch off, the second catches it fine. No problems for a couple of years now. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

I used to have problems with those Intermatic timers not shutting-off, till I started doubling-up the red 'off' keys. I put 'em side by side, and if one fails to swithch off, the second catches it fine. No problems for a couple of years now. :thumbsup:

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That's a good idea, unfortunately the analog timers I was using weren't that sort. The digital is working OK thus far. *crossed fingers*




By the way, I just took off the light diffusion thing because they are getting really quite tall (I mean they grew over a centimetre since this morning!) and it seems like they're craving the light or something. The HPS is a good 3 feet away from them so I'm hoping they're OK with that. I took out the dark green water catchment tray too because I think it was just absorbing heat and I don't need it yet.

[attachment=o200544]

Bonus question (sorry) I have a seed that cracked and it has a visible tap root but it hasn't sprouted in its cube. Should I leave it in there or chance taking it out and planting it in soil without its cube? Photo of it:

[attachment=o200545]

How long has it been 'stuck' like that? Might just be a slow-poke. Could be a tough seed cover, and in need of assistance. If it doesn't pop the surface, and throw-off the cover within a couple of days of the other ones, assistance may be necessary.

You also might want to check this technique to help with seedling stretch. I use it for all of my seedlings. Keeps you from having to support a long weak stem. :thumbsup:

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...ml#post1879545

Good luck. :jointsmile:

Thanks, Rusty T!

Wouldn't you know it, that little bugger finally broke the surface last night. :thumbsup:

Good idea with the seedling stretch thing too.

Looks like you're well on your way to Dankiness. Good luck. :thumbsup: