The thing about God: He doesn't exist (you do)

As far as being an atheist, I doubt I'd adopt the philosophy with any certainty; maybe one day, but I doubt it. But one thing I have been pretty set on over the last few fews years is being an Adeist (lacking belief in a diety).


The way I see it, whether you be Christian, Buddhist, or just a God-goin' type of fella: if you believe in an omni-present God, it just doesn't seem logical for it to have any type of singular consciousness, central mind, a separate and distinct being in and of itself.


You see in Buddhist philosophy (and I'm just using this particular system as the perspective I'm most familiar with), to attain enlightenment is known as the "extinction of self". That doesn't mean you cease to exist, but you're ego does. The ego is what gives that distinct feeling of "you"; that you are a somehow in a separate and independant state of existence from the rest of the universe.
Living in a body that provides considerably supperior and more intimate sensory input to the brain, the undeveloped mind convinces itself that it's existence extends only from your mind to the limits of your physical form. Even upon developing the intellectual understanding that others exist outside of yourself, with their own thoughts, feelings, and beliefs, you're mind ultimately believes that your existence is the truly real existence. So long as an individual puts their own hapiness, pleasures, and needs in general before that of others, actually placing their importance at a higher level for the self, I believe this delusion persists. Such action and belief is the product of a being still trapped in the delusion that their own reality is in fact the most real of all.

When Buddha attained enlightenment, he brought this delusion to it's final extinction. With the ego dead, he could see the equal importance of relieving the sufferings of all other beings as much as relieving his own. And hence with one individual's needs as real and important as his own, the few-hundred million (at the time of Sidhartha) people on the planet's needs, were a few-hundred million times more important as well. And thus, such self-sacrificing behavior, prophets and great folk like Jesus, also display such an understanding; that their own sacrifice is an incredibly small price to pay for the greater good of humanity, even under such horrid circumstances as crucifixion.



Now getting back to God: many of you believe that God is omni-present, right? Well an omni-present being would touch and be aware of all areas of existence, at all points in time. But if God does in fact permeate all areas of existence, his consciousness must entend likewise. With a consciousness aware of everything in perfect clarity, why would it be aware of it's own existence to some greater extent? Omniscience, in itself, is the very height of ego extinction. It completely destroys the walls that separate you from the rest of existence, just as the omni-present God is viewed.

So really, I can't believe that when it comes to God, "he" exists. Not in gender, entity, or any sort of independant force. To me God is a force that permeates every corner of the universe, and the only conscious God is the one that is created in our minds when we tap into this force. When looking at the rock, God is in the rock. When looking at the tree, God is in the tree. And when looking in our minds, God becomes a conscious being with thoughts and emotions, because the God that we worship is you; and the you that you believe in, is just a drop in the ocean that is God.


All thoughts and perspectives welcome. :jointsmile:



- The author would like to thank the Cannabis Sativa plant for material provided.

"...it is simply not possible to define an outer doctrine which accurately describes the reality of God. You can only know the reality of God through a direct inner experience." -Sananda

The only way to truely understand that God is real is to experience it for yourself.

"that their own sacrifice is an incredibly small price to pay for the greater good of humanity, even under such horrid circumstances as crucifixion. "

its a small price to pay but its equally an enormous sacrafice, a miracle. there is no scale...no better or worse

other than that u are completely right....

God is everything, and its always here whether we percieve it all in different ways or not...we've always got the underlying truth..."the world is awake for somebodys sake"- jack johnson

man, the world...the universe...everything in existance is one. Think about it...

just as our hearts are a part of us...we are only a part of the universe.

My heart and your heart are not existant seperately....our hearts both exist in the BIG PICTURE simultaneously...along with everything and everyone else in the universe

but buddhism is a trap man....its so real, but if you start to understand the trueness of it, but continue to live your life for the sake of your own wants and needs...it will make you miserable....at least it made me miserable....

I had to stop reading the books, and completely rid it from my mind...at times it can make you feel optimistic about the world in such a real understanding manor. but at other times it can take your actions, and thoughts, and make it to where you can see right through yourself....thats when you start to feel miserable....you notice that almost everything you do is for the sake of urself....when you are only a PART of the universe.....

with buddhism its all or nothing....

ive managed to step back and approach the world in a different manor....

the earth as we know has gone way beyond where it should have and I personally believe theres no way to help everyone with buddhism....though a real buddhist would not mind because he would realize that the rest of the world IS himself....

thats the problem with the world...everyone has been raised under the influence and illusion that they do exist independently from everyone else...many people have got the idea that humans are unexplainable, but we kind of stand above the rest of the animal and plant kingdoms....its unbelievable that we can question our existance, but its also a poison....purely living is the goal...purely existing

Thankyou for the very productive post Acouwaila. Your experiences with Buddhism seem not too far off of mine. I also abandoned being an kind of "buddhist", as I realized I still need to determine my ego's form before I can bring it to extinction. To bring to extinction an ego I can't define, to me, loudly says I would be embracing death. I don't mean any kind of varried metaphysical interpretation of death, I just mean: DEATH. With all the blackness entailed therein.
But It's also been the most invaluable philosophy I've learned to date, and I'll always keep it as a part of my life and my education.

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"that their own sacrifice is an incredibly small price to pay for the greater good of humanity, even under such horrid circumstances as crucifixion. "

its a small price to pay but its equally an enormous sacrafice, a miracle. there is no scale...no better or worse

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I agree 100%; that's actually what I was going for. You phrased it a lot better than I though. When I say a "small sacrifice" I only mean to put it into perspective. The implications are of course huge. I also think it's quite possible that, historically, there was no crucifixion of Christ, but it would be a moot point. Similar self-sacrifice has been present throughout all history, and equally great has been shown by Christians themselves who allowed punishments just as great by the hands of Roman authorities; all thanks to the example led by the story of Jesus.

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"...it is simply not possible to define an outer doctrine which accurately describes the reality of God. You can only know the reality of God through a direct inner experience." -Sananda

The only way to truely understand that God is real is to experience it for yourself.

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I agree wholeheartedly. I also think this is why God doesn't exist, or doens't have to, as much as "he" does. The Buddhists and the Christians both acknowledged a great force that links the whole of existence. The Christians called it "God", the Buddhists called it "reality"; but both were immaterial, lacking in physical substance, yet of profound significance to those who dwell in the physical world. God only becomes God when we name it as such. I hold to the belief that it is not at all necessary to call it God, and such is not an insult or a rejection of those who do call it God.

Yet I try to explain that to my deity-worshipping friend here in the physical world, and he calls me "ignorant" and a "stubborn atheist". *sigh*

I know exactly what you mean...the ego has so many layers of false judgements and illusory thoughts that we cant even begin to see . its the goggles on our eyes that we rarely take off....when people work independently they seek comfort....out of fear...when we take the goggles off were presented with such a huge confusion because our minds have been traveling west with the world turned upside down, so then we think we should travel east when the west leads us nowhere but back to the same place...but that aint the answer either...the answer is inside out....all of life shrinks to one point and then at the core of that point...the universe expands infinately inward...the answer is in the question....

it really is impossible to put things into perspective with language...it actually probably distorts it more. only because when things are defined thats adding one more layer of perception into a mind thats already clouded....and we know perception is nothing

theres one thing i dont understand about buddhism...

what was buddhas life about after he became enlightened....I know he continued to teach the ways and practice meditation the remainder of his life....but

what is the ultimate goal of buddhism? what is the ultimate final product supposed to produce...maybe there isnt supposed to be one....

the ultimate appreciation for life?

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Originally Posted by Acouwaila

theres one thing i dont understand about buddhism...

what was buddhas life about after he became enlightened....I know he continued to teach the ways and practice meditation the remainder of his life....but

what is the ultimate goal of buddhism? what is the ultimate final product supposed to produce...maybe there isnt supposed to be one....

the ultimate appreciation for life?

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The goal of Buddhism is to end all suffering for yourself and all those your affect. Extinction of self is the path to extinction of suffering. It is the goal and duty of a Buddhist to help liberate all beings from samsara (the cycle of suffering). This is done carefully, though, as telling people that your way is the right way leads to conflict, and inevitably more suffering. It's like always leaving the offer of liberation open to all for the taking, but never trying to give it to them.

Thats a nice thread, Gandalf! It will take me some time to think about it and reply properly (cause i DO believe in God).
Meanwhile, (and completly off topic BTW) you can get my email in my profile page... let me know when you get it, cause i dont wish to let it there for long... and you can ask anything you wish. If i were able to answer, i will. :thumbsup:

good thoughts...

i believe the more abstract you get in your definition of god, the more accurate you probably are since the language of finite minds is so inadequate to describe the infinite.

man has created god in his own image... god has been shaped and boxed through humankind's attempt to label, like we label everything we come in contact with. god has been "human-a-fied."

i love the journey and search to know more and understand more about the infinite but there is only one conclusion (opinion) of truth that i believe we can truly come to in this existence...

"GOD IS."

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Originally Posted by hazetwostep

i believe the more abstract you get in your definition of god, the more accurate you probably are since the language of finite minds is so inadequate to describe the infinite.

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Exactly what i think... and i think that its why the "usual" notion of God, held by "simpler" people, ("a man sitting in the sky") may be somehow "offensive" to some more "educated" people... while in fact God is far beyond any human notion, no matter how complex it can be, and never anything fathomable, predictable, nothing that can be molded in human parameters, nothing that be so simple to be ever comprehended by any human.

EDIT: Oh damnit! Some of my posts were deleted, so now this post is my 2012th again... :eek:

That's trippy.

i hope that it is not offensive to (using your words) the "more educated" people because it is nothing more than ignorance.

ignorance: the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

ignorance doesn't offend me because i am ignorant too... anyone who is not omniscient is in the same boat.

How could I despise others when my eyes are veiled as well to the true reality of god and our existence?

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Originally Posted by hazetwostep

i hope that it is not offensive to (using your words) the "more educated" people because it is nothing more than ignorance.

ignorance: the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

ignorance doesn't offend me because i am ignorant too... anyone who is not omniscient is in the same boat.

How could I despise others when my eyes are veiled as well to the true reality of god and our existence?

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Well... what i meant with "offensive" is that some people reacts so fiercily against the idea of God, that it seems they were offended by it... much like people used to be offended by the evolution theory ("WHO do you think youre calling a monkey???").
But I personally dont think there is anything offensive about it, even cause i do believe in God.

See this movie for help on more accurate notation and how corrupt the world probably is.....

Zeitgeist - The Movie

Its a big as trip if you haven't seen it

i hear what you are saying coelho

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Originally Posted by lve2smk

See this movie for help on more accurate notation and how corrupt the world probably is.....

Zeitgeist - The Movie

Its a big as trip if you haven't seen it

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We've all seen Zeigeist (excellent movie), and it's irrelevent to this topic.

Well I can understand WHY you may not.For 2,000 years realy we hadn't had anyone to say what is right and wrong like prophets for example.I believe Christianty has gotten far off track and we in America has dadly apotted Pagan worshipping example Christamas and the Easter Bunny in Easter.Jesus wasn't even born December modern day astronomy proves it was somewere near the Autumn!So thus we have lost our ways,so many differant churchs,so many differant ways one can't be right!God's way is ONLY right so find him while you seek you must know the TRUE ways.

My friends reading this Yahweh(God)while reviel himself by 2015 I promise you things are GOING TO HAPPEN shortly more and more then the apearance of a very evil man full of sins,lies,and deceit will arise and he will be the propechied Anti-Christ,Never More Horror!!This is no fairy tell becuase Yahweh promised the Jews there Messiah which was Jesus,it was pophecied THAT Jesus was coming a few hundreds year(or mabye thousand)before he came AND the date!!!

This will come to pass has far has the rapture I know it may be soon because in 2015 there will be a MAJOR astronamical event will be taken place!Scripture refers to this day to the Day of the Lord!!!there will be 2 Solar Eclipses with Lunar!!!In the Bible it says "The moon will be has blood and the sun will be darkened!!A Day in the bible isn't like our days becuase I believe a week is 7 1/2 years!But the day of the Lord isThe 2nd coming of Jesus!!!!Jesus comes back to rule the world with the saints for a 1,000 years!But sadly there won't much left of the world due to famine,drought,war,chemical warfare,the anti-christ makes you worship him and deslotes the 3rd temple that is about to be built in Jerusalem!You have to take a RFID tracking chip to come into the "New Age."The Anti-Christ will work WONDERS and make statues talk,shot fire balls from his fingers,induce plages,he'll be a PAGAN GOD in human form i.e.Satan's son!

The mark of the beast is the real i.d. act so they plan on inforcing it in 2010!Or you can't buy sell or eat,you can't do anything!Then anti-christ will break his 3 1/2 yr. peace treaty w/Isreal/Muslims and kill pepole for religon,rebels,or don't have the chip!

All of this was Propchied 1,000s of years ago!Bush furfilled some Prophetcies in Daniel!You will believe soon!Don't be decieved by false illusions and Churchs do often preach away from Scripture,he responses to the rightous if you have a good heart then are already halfway there.

This is a very interesting post you have here Readytoride, I'll try to comment where my knowledge is available:

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Originally Posted by Readytoride08

For 2,000 years realy we hadn't had anyone to say what is right and wrong like prophets for example.

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This isn't really true, it's just happened with other faiths. Mohammad did, after all, found Islam about 800 years ago (I'm probably way off, but it's much new than Christianity). Then in the 1860's, Baha'ula founded the Bah'ai religion with wisdom that actually impressed me more than any monotheistic religion I've seen yet. Really worth reading up on, and I think if any prophet sounds legit, he does.

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I believe Christianty has gotten far off track and we in America ha[ve] [gl]adly apotted Pagan worshipping. Example; Christmas and the Easter Bunny in Easter.Jesus wasn't even born December modern day astronomy proves it was somewere near the Autumn!So thus we have lost our ways,so many differant churchs,so many differant ways one can't be right! God's way is ONLY right so find him while you seek you must know the TRUE ways.

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You're absolutely right that Christianity has been re-shaped since it's inception; in fact all the written and orally-passed stories weren't collected into a single text 'till some 600 years after Jesus. Christmas is indeed not Jesus's birthday, but I think most Christians are aware of this and don't really consider it too substantial. It is, after all, about the honoring of his sacrifice. December 25th has been passed down through many, many religions (probably seeing as it's the last day of the winter solstice), and for the Romans it stood long as a day of partying, drugs, and orgies. Now that's my kind of Christmas! :D
God's way is the only right one? I think that leaves open a very subjective philosophy, and who's faith constitutes an "accurate" following of God's word?
Many people believe that the Buddha's teachings are absolutely a message of God, but one that tries to put more emphasis on defining the human psyche, soul, and what we call consciousness. Many Buddhists even believe that Buddha was God, in a sense, much like Jesus is claimed to be a manifestation of God (though his actual literal deification is completely anti-Christian). In Buddhist philosophy, to attain enlightenment one would achieve what's known as "the extinction of self". Not the actual death of you, but the death or your ego. In achieving ego extinction, one separates the barriers from themself and the rest of the universe, thereby being liberated from all ignorance, evil, and suffering. Coming from a Buddhist perspective myself, to attain enlightenment is to become God; because even as Christians believe, God is an omni-present force. Thereby, by removing the barriers between yourself and all other existence, you take on the very nature that is God and become a part of "him".

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My friends reading this Yahweh(God)while reviel himself by 2015 I promise you things are GOING TO HAPPEN shortly more and more then the apearance of a very evil man full of sins,lies,and deceit will arise and he will be the propechied Anti-Christ,Never More Horror!!This is no fairy tell becuase Yahweh promised the Jews there Messiah which was Jesus,it was pophecied THAT Jesus was coming a few hundreds year(or mabye thousand)before he came AND the date!!!

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You might want to be more careful about proof-reading; 'cause I honestly can't make out some of that... :wtf:

The popular date these days seems to be December 22nd, 2012. Originally made popular by the Mayan calender showing that this date marks a great shift for humanity, many other cultures seem to mark 2012 as the next stage in human "evolution" (not biologically).
I think it may be worthy of credence, but I'm highly suspicious that this is all fortold by various cultures because of astological consistencies. December 22nd is, after, the beginning of the winter Soltice (mythologically important), and the new Eon (which happens every 2,500 years or so) is due around this time.

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This will come to pass has far has the rapture I know it may be soon because in 2015 there will be a MAJOR astronamical event will be taken place!Scripture refers to this day to the Day of the Lord!!!there will be 2 Solar Eclipses with Lunar!!!In the Bible it says "The moon will be has blood and the sun will be darkened!!

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Giving strength to the argument that these dates are based on ancient astrology, and not actual proven prophecies to be relied on.

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A Day in the bible isn't like our days becuase I believe a week is 7 1/2 years!

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Based on what? And why would God use such confusing measurements, calling something a "day" when it's not, and knowing this would confuse us?

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But the day of the Lord isThe 2nd coming of Jesus!!!!Jesus comes back to rule the world with the saints for a 1,000 years!But sadly there won't much left of the world due to famine,drought,war,chemical warfare,the anti-christ makes you worship him and deslotes the 3rd temple that is about to be built in Jerusalem!

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OkyDoky.

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You have to take a RFID tracking chip to come into the "New Age."The Anti-Christ will work WONDERS and make statues talk,shot fire balls from his fingers,induce plages,he'll be a PAGAN GOD in human form i.e.Satan's son!

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Pagan's are not Satanists. The Catholic church indoctrinated the public with a lot of information that wasn't originally taught by Jesus, this included. Pagans, for the most part these days, are about nature worship in one form or another. To appreciate and revere God's creation doesn't seem all that terrible to me; better than our new religion or media pop culture and instant gratification.

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The mark of the beast is the real i.d. act so they plan on inforcing it in 2010!Or you can't buy sell or eat,you can't do anything!Then anti-christ will break his 3 1/2 yr. peace treaty w/Isreal/Muslims and kill pepole for religon,rebels,or don't have the chip!

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The ID chip is indeed bullshit, though you seem to be greatly exagerating the situation based on any currently available information. Or are you assuming this because it fly's with your preconceptions well?

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All of this was Propchied 1,000s of years ago!Bush furfilled some Prophetcies in Daniel!You will believe soon!Don't be decieved by false illusions and Churchs do often preach away from Scripture,he responses to the rightous if you have a good heart then are already halfway there.

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People have been matching up scriptural prophecies since they were made; and every generation was sure they all matched up, so the rapture was any day now. The last biggest movement of the imminant final battle was during the Korean war, which occured right after World War 2, which was right after the Great Depression, Right after World War 1. The prophecies were even more accurately fulfilled then and the bad shit going down was WAY bigger than what we're seeing today. Yet, they all insisted the big world-change was going to happen only a few years from then, just like they're saying today.


BTW, stating things very excitedly with exclamation marks doesn't really help your argument. People respond to evidence these days, so just saying...
And for God's sake man, wait 'till you're down on whatever you're on and write semi-coherently!

theres a higher power

dont know who it is or what

we are supposed to unload our so called problems to

the higher power



I wish theyd send me a cash flow from the bank of jesus

wtf

why do people have so much dam money????

shell oil is so not doing us right ((((


save us moses !

If you've always been using ego as far as you can remember..how can you come to an intelligent decision that God is'nt real when that decision was made within an illusion that will vanish if the truth is discovered. Your ego thinks it will die if God is discovered therefore it will do anything to distract you to keep you focused on it, of course its going to say God's not real God itself is its greatest fear.

I laugh to myself when I think about how some people think thier the shit like thier human body is some sort of wonderful thing up on a pedestal. It's hilarious acctually but hard to explain..

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Originally Posted by PureEvil760

If you've always been using ego as far as you can remember..how can you come to an intelligent decision that God is'nt real when that decision was made within an illusion that will vanish if the truth is discovered. Your ego thinks it will die if God is discovered therefore it will do anything to distract you to keep you focused on it, of course its going to say God's not real God itself is its greatest fear.

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Good one, man... :thumbsup: Very good indeed... :thumbsup::thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey

This is a very interesting post you have here Readytoride, I'll try to comment where my knowledge is available:



This isn't really true, it's just happened with other faiths. Mohammad did, after all, found Islam about 800 years ago (I'm probably way off, but it's much new than Christianity). Then in the 1860's, Baha'ula founded the Bah'ai religion with wisdom that actually impressed me more than any monotheistic religion I've seen yet. Really worth reading up on, and I think if any prophet sounds legit, he does.



You're absolutely right that Christianity has been re-shaped since it's inception; in fact all the written and orally-passed stories weren't collected into a single text 'till some 600 years after Jesus. Christmas is indeed not Jesus's birthday, but I think most Christians are aware of this and don't really consider it too substantial. It is, after all, about the honoring of his sacrifice. December 25th has been passed down through many, many religions (probably seeing as it's the last day of the winter solstice), and for the Romans it stood long as a day of partying, drugs, and orgies. Now that's my kind of Christmas! :D
God's way is the only right one? I think that leaves open a very subjective philosophy, and who's faith constitutes an "accurate" following of God's word?
Many people believe that the Buddha's teachings are absolutely a message of God, but one that tries to put more emphasis on defining the human psyche, soul, and what we call consciousness. Many Buddhists even believe that Buddha was God, in a sense, much like Jesus is claimed to be a manifestation of God (though his actual literal deification is completely anti-Christian). In Buddhist philosophy, to attain enlightenment one would achieve what's known as "the extinction of self". Not the actual death of you, but the death or your ego. In achieving ego extinction, one separates the barriers from themself and the rest of the universe, thereby being liberated from all ignorance, evil, and suffering. Coming from a Buddhist perspective myself, to attain enlightenment is to become God; because even as Christians believe, God is an omni-present force. Thereby, by removing the barriers between yourself and all other existence, you take on the very nature that is God and become a part of "him".



You might want to be more careful about proof-reading; 'cause I honestly can't make out some of that... :wtf:

The popular date these days seems to be December 22nd, 2012. Originally made popular by the Mayan calender showing that this date marks a great shift for humanity, many other cultures seem to mark 2012 as the next stage in human "evolution" (not biologically).
I think it may be worthy of credence, but I'm highly suspicious that this is all fortold by various cultures because of astological consistencies. December 22nd is, after, the beginning of the winter Soltice (mythologically important), and the new Eon (which happens every 2,500 years or so) is due around this time.



Giving strength to the argument that these dates are based on ancient astrology, and not actual proven prophecies to be relied on.




Based on what? And why would God use such confusing measurements, calling something a "day" when it's not, and knowing this would confuse us?



OkyDoky.



Pagan's are not Satanists. The Catholic church indoctrinated the public with a lot of information that wasn't originally taught by Jesus, this included. Pagans, for the most part these days, are about nature worship in one form or another. To appreciate and revere God's creation doesn't seem all that terrible to me; better than our new religion or media pop culture and instant gratification.



The ID chip is indeed bullshit, though you seem to be greatly exagerating the situation based on any currently available information. Or are you assuming this because it fly's with your preconceptions well?




People have been matching up scriptural prophecies since they were made; and every generation was sure they all matched up, so the rapture was any day now. The last biggest movement of the imminant final battle was during the Korean war, which occured right after World War 2, which was right after the Great Depression, Right after World War 1. The prophecies were even more accurately fulfilled then and the bad shit going down was WAY bigger than what we're seeing today. Yet, they all insisted the big world-change was going to happen only a few years from then, just like they're saying today.


BTW, stating things very excitedly with exclamation marks doesn't really help your argument. People respond to evidence these days, so just saying...
And for God's sake man, wait 'till you're down on whatever you're on and write semi-coherently!

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1.)Muhummad killed and disacrated lots of pepole,he was twisted and to me NOT a Prophet of Holiness,now what defines a Prophet in your eyes may not in mine.A Prophet is a teacher,TRUE-he did oppose his enamies and bring 'dicipline'to them(by death and terror to those who oppose him).And true Islam was created 800 years ago.If Allah is the correct God and Islam is correct,sorry I guess I am going to hell becuase I would NEVER want to share a piece of paradise and live forever with a ruthless deity such has Allah,I mean come on when I was in Isreal I heard reports of Islam-Jihadist storming houses and tearing a Jewish family limb for limb and carrying them out by there bodies parts and MURDERED a 3 year old boy who siad 'Allah is hate'.And no I didn't hear this from T.V. I heard this from my cousin who fight in the Isreali Amry,I am well aware what both sides do AND I denouce BOTH of there tatics,I am not a man of killing over land!Isreal is just has guilty has them,so is our Government over 9/11!In my mind we picked a fight with pepole who didn't care about us(honestly).Has far has the Crusades,it turned the Jews off from Jesus becuase of the constant ridicual and mass murders(The Roman Catholics and followers carried out the Vacticans plans of killing Jews)when the pepole didn't stop and think King Harold choose the highest priest and they opposed Jesus.I can see why pepole are turned off by relgion when most are dirty of crimes,not just Islam.

2.)I can agree with Budha,look let me this clear my perception of God isn't like most pepole,I have stuided many relgions and I believe a key element lies in EVERY single one of them.Example.)I believe Islam when they say "God can never be seen or touched."this is true becuase in God's true form we can't see his face,we'd die it states it several times in the Bible,if you want I can refer,find it and p.m. it too you.

3.)Proof reading-I did kinda type that fast also I had my son in my ear distracting me sorry to confuse you man.The early times(b.c.)was based on sun-up to sun-down that defined a day.After Rome fell alot of Eureopeon colonies adopted the Roman Calender and time such has Great Britian(who was heavly infulanced by the Catholic Church),were did we come from?Great Britian!To us a day beguins a 12 and ends at 12.Also has far has the Bible begin confusing I can see were you are coming from also,I believe it was kinda mis-translated,Hewbrew is hard to translate becuase HELL is Haides,Haides means grave for example.

4.)Yes the Mayans did very good work,it's MIND BLOWING the 'Mass shift of conuisnuss' is happening now and I believe will 'peak'in 2012 when EVERYONE accepts the fact,we have been lied to BAD for years,HELL mabye not since the beguining,goes back to my perception of Yahweh i'll cover that below.

5.)I can prove that Danile predicted alot of things Bush did,the information I have even matchs the Bible verses with dates read my reply below I have proof and i'll post it.Tell me what you think after I post it.

6.)I can't put my takes on Pagainsm YET I am still studying,but if the goat head of mendes is in Pagan then to me that is Satanism like I siad our ideas differ we are human :-)


7.)'The Mark of the Beast'was predicted in the Bible here is the verse:And he causeth all, both small and great,
Rich and poor, free and bond,
To receive a mark on their right hand,
Or on their forehead.
And that no man might buy or sell,
Save that he had the mark,
Or the name of the beast,
Or the number of his name.*
Revelation 13:16,17


Know how in the hell would they know this so long ago?When pepole lived in mud houses or tents?There is pepole already taking this chip in there hand and forehead RIGHT NOW,even in there animals!!The chances of that Propchey beging furfilled 1,000,000 to .1 I did the odds,either 2 things is happening the Bible is correct(which I believe the Prophcies are)OR our government is playing a end-time game....which wouldn't surpise me conlcuding Bush's RETARDED desicions.


8.)The differance is Propchies only furfilled to the extant 150-200 years,to the T.Now they have skyrocketted if you wish to see the scriptures with the events i'll p.m. it you I have been studying Propchy since I was little,i'll tell you Daniel,Ezeckiel,and Revlations tie in to each other and to me,I believe someone tampered with Relations and switched it up so no one would know so it wouldn't fall into wrong hands,refer to Nostradamus quadtrains you have to read it a certain way.

I am posting the PROOF before your eyes of how Bush furfilled Propchies.I am glad to be apart of your thread I hope you achieve what you are looking for(answers),like I siad when the anti-christ apears ALOT of athiest will see the hell that is coming.NOW you must be wondering "If God is such a great person why is he putting the Earth tru this 'Tribulation Period'I keep hearing about?"

2 Reasons-
The Jews denied Christ
The jews lost 7 years,they were soppose to go and preach the world and it hasn't been furfilled yet,God held 7 years.

Daniels Mystery Revieled!

"Count the numbers of the Beast!!!!!"
DANIEL PREDICTS THE FALL OF AMERICA BELOW IS YOUR PROOF,ARE YOU READY FOR THE MAJOR BREAK THROUGH?!THE TRUTH SAY SET YOU FREE!!!

Flip doller bill over below the pyramid is a "Nevous Ordo Seclorum"Meaning "New World Order"each one of the statues in the pillers of the pyramid represents the fallen Empires before America,with the all seegin eye of RA on top!


New World Order Agenda Revieled!

Let's go back to 1999 when G.W.BUSH was at the Florida debate and how he cheated his way into office.

Democric politicans tell pepole what they want to hear to win votes,30% is Christian!
Speaker "What major Philosohper changed your views?"
G.W.Bush-"Jesus Christ he changed my heart!"
Prophecy furfilled-Daniel 11:21 "He shall come to power peacefuly by use of fatteries."
Florida recount prochey furfilled-"He shall not obtain the kingdom in the usal way of sucession"-Daniel 11:21
Supreme Court ruleing-"The Magistrate(ruler)keeper of the 'constitution'(covenant)is swayed in his favor-Daniel 11:22
U.S. surpreme court sits for case 11/21/00(Bible verse)
Al Gore gives up Election
Daniel 11/22-"The opposing forces are swept away from before him,this resolve broken"
Court sat "20 days"before the start of the new year,the new Milliunium the start of the new year and the New Milliumin 2001 the 21 century.
Sworn in the 20th day of the New Milliunium.That's 20/20 vision hindsight(a 2nd second sign)

9/11 Revieled!
Exactly 7.8 lunar months(YHWH God deals in lunar and astrononical signs)Sept.11/2001 occured-9/11

Daniel 7:8-"...Is the final kingdom and also its the final leader rising to power"
On Day 78 of 2001 he turned exactly 666 lunar months old(55.5)Lunar years
Note the Cross Referance to Revalation 15:18 for the number 666 pointing to the beast(a 2nd sign)

The date he was sworn into office is 1/20/2001 in USA and is 21/1/01 at the internatinol dateline that's 21.1.01 remember it is Daniel 11:21 "He comes to power."(2nd sign)

With there always begin 2 dates worldwide as for the 20 'and'the 21 letters for 'Daniel'are found in the dateline with E.T. over = and in French 2nd sign.He furfills the verse Daniel 11:21 date 21.1.1(2nd sign,1st ruler of the 21st century'Verse 21')

9/11 attacks 7.8 Lunar Months after begin sworn in
9/11 has seconday sign pointing too a new Revlation
2nd sign points point to primary signs which point to prochey events begin furfilled!

Revlation 9:11 Is the destroyer from 5th Trumpet Prochey
Daniel 11:21 is "He comes to power."
11:21 as a key number sign time is 21:11 which is 9:11(Another 9/11 sign)
9/11 emergancy also another sign on 9/11/01

747 is a number which brings something to mind!
The Boeing 747 was the first Jet Plane!

George Bush =747 in Ascii Code
(2nd sign many coincidences)

"747 Signs"=9/11 Planes similer kinds
-George Bush=747
-First Impact is 7:41 A.M.
AlSO
First star of Geminic(Twin Constallation-Revlation)sets on Harizon in Bahgdad same minutes at first impact!
9/11 Concidences-9/11 Emergancy U/S/A
-9/11 date-Twin Tower&Twin Stars point to Bahgdad Iraq!!!!
-747 Planes&Bush&Time

-Reaction starts war on terror

The Illegal War and NWO Domination for Oil
-Forged Document fraud stated by Poland U.N. meeting in 11/23/05
Daniel 11:23-"After a Coalition is made with him he act deceitfully
-35 Nations in U.N. agreed to be known has "Colition of the willing!"
United Nations majority saw the war has 'Illegal Action'

Daniel 11:23-He gets colition
-He acts deceitfully
-He excercises power with the help of smaller group

555 days from 9/11/2001 till Iraq which furfills the 5th Trumpet 20/03/03
2003 Twice
20 03 2003
2+3=5(Twice)
Signs point to 5th Trumpet
-555 days after 9/11
-Revalation 9:11(Leader)
-20/03/2003 (2+3=5)
-4,445 days after Gulf War
-Iraq was peace with neighbors until America picked a fight

"In times of peace he enters into the richs part of the realm"-Daniel 11:24
-G.W. sneaks into Bahgdad on Thanksgiven 03
-Even "richest"from the 'Richest part of the realm'can have a double meaning as 'eating a rich dish' such has "Thanksgiven dinner!!!"
-Histroy of G.W.Senior as from G.W.B.J.
-His father could not get funding from Senate to get Suddam nor the booty or succes,contracts&oil to share with his friends!!!
-G.W. senior was put in Charge of parcelling out rebuilding contracts for Iraq in 2003!!
"....He shall achieve what his father was unable to achieve,more the establishment could,he shall parcel up,riches&booty,among them."Daniel 11:24

"He shall set his mind to come with the full power of his kingdom against the King of the south"Daniel 11:25

i would have to stick by Gandalf's opinion. EVERY generation since Jesus has "seen" the signs of the end times in their lifetime. I wouldn't expect this generation to be any different.

Just like we survived Y2K and the "probable" 2 millennial return of Jesus, i am sure we will be just fine after 2012. I think they are of similar threat... meaning none at all.

I would be more scared about the day when man creates artificial intelligence that is "smarter" than us making us no longer the most developed form of consciousness on the planet. This might very well be a possibility over the next 40 years with the current rate of technological advancements. Things could get hairy then. You can read more about it by googling "technology singularity." Yes, this is just a theory too, but at least it is based on observable facts and numbers of today as opposed to coming from an ancient religious text or beliefs with doubtful authenticity.

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Flip doller bill over below the pyramid is a "Nevous Ordo Seclorum"Meaning "New World Order"each one of the statues in the pillers of the pyramid represents the fallen Empires before America,with the all seegin eye of RA on top!

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Actually, the Latin phrase "Novus Ordo Seclorum" translates to "New Order of the Ages". "New World Order" is a common mistranslation, but would have to be written as "Novus Ordo Mundi" for that to be the case. Considering that America was a revolutionary idea at the time, the creation of a state where the government fears it's people (at least that's what it was supposed to end up as), it was a new order for a new age.

New World Order Agenda Revieled!

Let's go back to 1999 when G.W.BUSH was at the Florida debate and how he cheated his way into office.

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Democric politicans tell pepole what they want to hear to win votes,30% is Christian!

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Actually 33% if Evangellicle Christian, and there are many more Christians in America besides. But yes, many Christians!

Quote:

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Speaker "What major Philosohper changed your views?"
G.W.Bush-"Jesus Christ he changed my heart!"
Prophecy furfilled-Daniel 11:21 "He shall come to power peacefuly by use of fatteries."

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Did you mean "fatteries" as "Flatteries"? This is hardly a fullfilment of prophecy when a Christian leader, of a Christian nation, calls himself Christian.

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Florida recount prochey furfilled-"He shall not obtain the kingdom in the usal way of sucession"-Daniel 11:21

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George Bush did attain power via the usual means of succession. All presidential victories are won by achieving the most votes by electoral colleges, not by the popular vote. Usually the popular vote coincides with the EC vote, but not always and not necessarily.

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Supreme Court ruleing-"The Magistrate(ruler)keeper of the 'constitution'(covenant)is swayed in his favor-Daniel 11:22

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Far as I know, a "covenant" is a contract of sorts between the people and God. The constitution is an important legal document, but it is not a holy one. Furthermore, George Bush as far from the first ruler or any nation to overthrow the constitution and give himself dictatorial rights.

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U.S. surpreme court sits for case 11/21/00(Bible verse)
Al Gore gives up Election

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Don't know to which case you are referring...

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Daniel 11/22-"The opposing forces are swept away from before him,this resolve broken"

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You mean he won an election? Yep, sounds vague enough to be applied to anything; elections included.

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Court sat "20 days"before the start of the new year,the new Milliunium the start of the new year and the New Milliumin 2001 the 21 century.
Sworn in the 20th day of the New Milliunium.That's 20/20 vision hindsight(a 2nd second sign)

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"20/20 hindsight" is a saying based on quality of vision. This is looking more and more like someone selectively picking out numbers to create equations that coincide with preconceptions.

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9/11 Revieled!
Exactly 7.8 lunar months(YHWH God deals in lunar and astrononical signs)Sept.11/2001 occured-9/11

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Daniel 7:8-"...Is the final kingdom and also its the final leader rising to power"

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lol, I think Obama or McCain will rise to power well before the fall of America.

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On Day 78 of 2001 he turned exactly 666 lunar months old(55.5)Lunar years
Note the Cross Referance to Revalation 15:18 for the number 666 pointing to the beast(a 2nd sign)

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Now you're cross-referrencing biblical chapters with biblical events, picking either at your convenience. Again, this is cherry-picking numbers and facts to match everything up nicely. You could do this at any point in history, finding all sorts of coinciding numbers of all sorts of leaders, dates, times, ect.

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The date he was sworn into office is 1/20/2001 in USA and is 21/1/01 at the internatinol dateline that's 21.1.01 remember it is Daniel 11:21 "He comes to power."(2nd sign)

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Same thing again. Why would section numbers in a book be considered part of it's prophecy in the first place? The numbers are already being mixed around to coincide as is. I could play the same number games and match the history of walmart to biblical prophecy.

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With there always begin 2 dates worldwide as for the 20 'and'the 21 letters for 'Daniel'are found in the dateline with E.T. over = and in French 2nd sign.He furfills the verse Daniel 11:21 date 21.1.1(2nd sign,1st ruler of the 21st century'Verse 21')

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Dude, sorry, but this is too jumbled for me to make sense of. But I get the feeling it holds the same issues that I remarked on above.

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9/11 attacks 7.8 Lunar Months after begin sworn in
9/11 has seconday sign pointing too a new Revlation
2nd sign points to primary signs which point to prochey events begin furfilled!

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Still cross-referrencing chapter numbers and events; it's a pretty mild coincidence. Do you think we can't find another 2 events, somewhere in history, that are 78 or 7.8 days, weeks, months, or whatever measurement you want apart?

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Revelation 9:11 Is the destroyer from 5th Trumpet Prochey
Daniel 11:21 is "He comes to power."
11:21 as a key number sign time is 21:11 which is 9:11(Another 9/11 sign)
9/11 emergancy also another sign on 9/11/01

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This is only a half-coherent math formula with no criterial basis for the methodology of how the numbers are switched around and added/subtracted/divided/multiplied accordingly.

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747 is a number which brings something to mind!
The Boeing 747 was the first Jet Plane!

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The planes used in 9/11 were Boeing 757's.

Quote:

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"747 Signs"=9/11 Planes similer kinds
-George Bush=747
-First Impact is 7:41 A.M.

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All lose affilliations, close to being similary but not, with at least the first bit of info being wrong.

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AlSO
First star of Geminic(Twin Constallation-Revlation)sets on Harizon in Bahgdad same minutes at first impact!
9/11 Concidences-9/11 Emergancy U/S/A
-9/11 date-Twin Tower&Twin Stars point to Bahgdad Iraq!!!!

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Two towers fall, and two stars at some point in the sky in Bahgdad. Do you actually find it that shocking that somewhere, somehow, you could find two related subjects and find two different things happening at once? This is the simplest and most common form of coincidence.

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The Illegal War and NWO Domination for Oil
-Forged Document fraud stated by Poland U.N. meeting in 11/23/05
Daniel 11:23-"After a Coalition is made with him he act deceitfully
-35 Nations in U.N. agreed to be known has "Colition of the willing!"
United Nations majority saw the war has 'Illegal Action'

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Probably the best coincidence so far. And still, a date and a chapter number matched up; which may or may not even be accurate seeing as websites purporting this stuff will gladly tweak things a little to solidify their case. Even if not, the coincidence is the first strong one so far, and not that amazing.

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Daniel 11:23-He gets colition
-He acts deceitfully
-He excercises power with the help of smaller group

555 days from 9/11/2001 till Iraq which furfills the 5th Trumpet 20/03/03
2003 Twice
20 03 2003
2+3=5(Twice)
Signs point to 5th Trumpet
-555 days after 9/11
-Revalation 9:11(Leader)
-20/03/2003 (2+3=5)
-4,445 days after Gulf War
-Iraq was peace with neighbors until America picked a fight

---

Reiteration, Gotcha.

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"In times of peace he enters into the richs part of the realm"-Daniel 11:24
-G.W. sneaks into Bahgdad on Thanksgiven 03
-Even "richest"from the 'Richest part of the realm'can have a double meaning as 'eating a rich dish' such has "Thanksgiven dinner!!!"

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"The richest part of the realm", not the "richest time when entering the realm". Come on now, this is the weakest link of all, turning a "rich realm" into thanksgiving dinner? I hope the Bible remembered to mention the cranberry sauce.

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-Histroy of G.W.Senior as from G.W.B.J.
-His father could not get funding from Senate to get Suddam nor the booty or succes,contracts&oil to share with his friends!!!
-G.W. senior was put in Charge of parcelling out rebuilding contracts for Iraq in 2003!!
"....He shall achieve what his father was unable to achieve,more the establishment could,he shall parcel up,riches&booty,among them."Daniel 11:24

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Another example of the Bible making predictions that are so vague, it is innevitable that somebody will fulfill them. Father starts a war, doesn't get the job done, next generation (son) takes over and finishes the job. This aint exactly a historically unique situation.

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"He shall set his mind to come with the full power of his kingdom against the King of the south"Daniel 11:25

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Unfortunately, he's fighting against the kingdom of the East.




Overal the entire substance of your arguments have depended on selectively picking out numbers, relevant or not, with scripturally-indicated significance or not, and applied whatever mathematical formula's most conveniently spell out prophecy.
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I can't respond to everything in your other post, because frankly my brain hurts now. But I will point out:

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1.)Muhummad killed and disacrated lots of pepole,he was twisted and to me NOT a Prophet of Holiness,now what defines a Prophet in your eyes may not in mine.A Prophet is a teacher,TRUE-he did oppose his enamies and bring 'dicipline'to them(by death and terror to those who oppose him).And true Islam was created 800 years ago.If Allah is the correct God and Islam is correct,sorry I guess I am going to hell becuase I would NEVER want to share a piece of paradise and live forever with a ruthless deity such has Allah,I mean come on when I was in Isreal I heard reports of Islam-Jihadist storming houses and tearing a Jewish family limb for limb and carrying them out by there bodies parts and MURDERED a 3 year old boy who siad 'Allah is hate'.

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1. The actions of some followers of Islam are not a valid argument against Islam itself. You can find a person from any religion who commits all sorts of insannities.

2. Allah is the same God of the Bible, old and new tesament. Muslims consider Jesus to be a holy prophet, but that his word was distorted and the bible edited by the church (and that's a pretty historically solid fact). Looking at the Old Testament, God was at least just as brutal as he is portrayed in the Koran.

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6.)I can't put my takes on Pagainsm YET I am still studying,but if the goat head of mendes is in Pagan then to me that is Satanism like I siad our ideas differ we are human :-)

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Paganism is not a single, identifiable religion with a founding member. The term has historically and modernly been applied to most polytheistic and any non-deistic religions stretching from Mayans, Aztecs, ancient Egypt, Buddhism, Taoists, Native Americans, and Shamanism. So this "goat head of mendes" is irrelevant, and sweeping statements about paganism are nonsensicle.

Well like I said we both share good points,I hope others find this thread useful.I did have a question in my mind that didn't seem [I]right[I]to me.If you will,flip to Exodus and you'll see right before the promise land,Moses's son and pepole goes and wipes all the kings in the Promise land.I am busy but when I get back i'll find the verse but basicly I understood that Yahweh gave them that land and told them wipe out the kings,families,and children.Also I was reading about a guy who was gathering the sticks on the Sabbath day and God said "The man must die."

So yes all relgions in some sort or the other have commited crimes,mabye Yahweh was displeased with how the pepole was not keeping(or honoring)the laws,or the land and gave it to other pepole.

Now has far has God floating around on a cloud and some old ass guy that gets mad when break his laws,I dis-agree!Call me crazy BUT I think Yahweh himself is some radiant energy field somewere in deepness of space that unifies his messengers to come to Earth,no one has seen his face.Matter of fact when he apears to Mosses on the summit of Mt.Sanai a bush was burning everything was siad to be a red color and when Mosses came down his hair was standing up and was white.The Bibles refers to him going up on a cloud,Eziekical(hope I spelled right)desricbed a ufo in my intrupatation,and there is more i'd have to find that I read that made me believe basicly God is either:
a.)a very inteligant lifeform or matter that won't die
b.)or very well a alien lifeform that made the universe and us

You must think back then they would see ufos or mabye aliens and thought they werte angels.

Angel enocunter-Bright lights that stunned pepole,super human looking apperance

Alien encounteries claim-They had 8-10 ft.tall rods with a lights emiting from the center,looked close to humans but had big eyes.

Look at the story of Atlantis,had a matter of fact,i'll post the link to a very interesting movie and if you have about a hour a half wacth it,i'd be interested in your thoughts on it.