The thing about God: He doesn't exist (you do)

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

As far as being an atheist, I doubt I'd adopt the philosophy with any certainty; maybe one day, but I doubt it. But one thing I have been pretty set on over the last few fews years is being an Adeist (lacking belief in a diety).


The way I see it, whether you be Christian, Buddhist, or just a God-goin' type of fella: if you believe in an omni-present God, it just doesn't seem logical for it to have any type of singular consciousness, central mind, a separate and distinct being in and of itself.


You see in Buddhist philosophy (and I'm just using this particular system as the perspective I'm most familiar with), to attain enlightenment is known as the "extinction of self". That doesn't mean you cease to exist, but you're ego does. The ego is what gives that distinct feeling of "you"; that you are a somehow in a separate and independant state of existence from the rest of the universe.
Living in a body that provides considerably supperior and more intimate sensory input to the brain, the undeveloped mind convinces itself that it's existence extends only from your mind to the limits of your physical form. Even upon developing the intellectual understanding that others exist outside of yourself, with their own thoughts, feelings, and beliefs, you're mind ultimately believes that your existence is the truly real existence. So long as an individual puts their own hapiness, pleasures, and needs in general before that of others, actually placing their importance at a higher level for the self, I believe this delusion persists. Such action and belief is the product of a being still trapped in the delusion that their own reality is in fact the most real of all.

When Buddha attained enlightenment, he brought this delusion to it's final extinction. With the ego dead, he could see the equal importance of relieving the sufferings of all other beings as much as relieving his own. And hence with one individual's needs as real and important as his own, the few-hundred million (at the time of Sidhartha) people on the planet's needs, were a few-hundred million times more important as well. And thus, such self-sacrificing behavior, prophets and great folk like Jesus, also display such an understanding; that their own sacrifice is an incredibly small price to pay for the greater good of humanity, even under such horrid circumstances as crucifixion.



Now getting back to God: many of you believe that God is omni-present, right? Well an omni-present being would touch and be aware of all areas of existence, at all points in time. But if God does in fact permeate all areas of existence, his consciousness must entend likewise. With a consciousness aware of everything in perfect clarity, why would it be aware of it's own existence to some greater extent? Omniscience, in itself, is the very height of ego extinction. It completely destroys the walls that separate you from the rest of existence, just as the omni-present God is viewed.

So really, I can't believe that when it comes to God, "he" exists. Not in gender, entity, or any sort of independant force. To me God is a force that permeates every corner of the universe, and the only conscious God is the one that is created in our minds when we tap into this force. When looking at the rock, God is in the rock. When looking at the tree, God is in the tree. And when looking in our minds, God becomes a conscious being with thoughts and emotions, because the God that we worship is you; and the you that you believe in, is just a drop in the ocean that is God.


All thoughts and perspectives welcome. :jointsmile:



- The author would like to thank the Cannabis Sativa plant for material provided.

Gandalf_The_Grey Reviewed by Gandalf_The_Grey on 05-12-2008. The thing about God: He doesn't exist (you do) As far as being an atheist, I doubt I'd adopt the philosophy with any certainty; maybe one day, but I doubt it. But one thing I have been pretty set on over the last few fews years is being an Adeist (lacking belief in a diety). The way I see it, whether you be Christian, Buddhist, or just a God-goin' type of fella: if you believe in an omni-present God, it just doesn't seem logical for it to have any type of singular consciousness, central mind, a separate and distinct being in and of Rating: 5

[PureEvil760]

"...it is simply not possible to define an outer doctrine which accurately describes the reality of God. You can only know the reality of God through a direct inner experience." -Sananda

The only way to truely understand that God is real is to experience it for yourself.

[Acouwaila]

"that their own sacrifice is an incredibly small price to pay for the greater good of humanity, even under such horrid circumstances as crucifixion. "

its a small price to pay but its equally an enormous sacrafice, a miracle. there is no scale...no better or worse

other than that u are completely right....

God is everything, and its always here whether we percieve it all in different ways or not...we've always got the underlying truth..."the world is awake for somebodys sake"- jack johnson

man, the world...the universe...everything in existance is one. Think about it...

just as our hearts are a part of us...we are only a part of the universe.

My heart and your heart are not existant seperately....our hearts both exist in the BIG PICTURE simultaneously...along with everything and everyone else in the universe

but buddhism is a trap man....its so real, but if you start to understand the trueness of it, but continue to live your life for the sake of your own wants and needs...it will make you miserable....at least it made me miserable....

I had to stop reading the books, and completely rid it from my mind...at times it can make you feel optimistic about the world in such a real understanding manor. but at other times it can take your actions, and thoughts, and make it to where you can see right through yourself....thats when you start to feel miserable....you notice that almost everything you do is for the sake of urself....when you are only a PART of the universe.....

with buddhism its all or nothing....

ive managed to step back and approach the world in a different manor....

the earth as we know has gone way beyond where it should have and I personally believe theres no way to help everyone with buddhism....though a real buddhist would not mind because he would realize that the rest of the world IS himself....

thats the problem with the world...everyone has been raised under the influence and illusion that they do exist independently from everyone else...many people have got the idea that humans are unexplainable, but we kind of stand above the rest of the animal and plant kingdoms....its unbelievable that we can question our existance, but its also a poison....purely living is the goal...purely existing

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Thankyou for the very productive post Acouwaila. Your experiences with Buddhism seem not too far off of mine. I also abandoned being an kind of "buddhist", as I realized I still need to determine my ego's form before I can bring it to extinction. To bring to extinction an ego I can't define, to me, loudly says I would be embracing death. I don't mean any kind of varried metaphysical interpretation of death, I just mean: DEATH. With all the blackness entailed therein.
But It's also been the most invaluable philosophy I've learned to date, and I'll always keep it as a part of my life and my education.

"that their own sacrifice is an incredibly small price to pay for the greater good of humanity, even under such horrid circumstances as crucifixion. "

its a small price to pay but its equally an enormous sacrafice, a miracle. there is no scale...no better or worse

I agree 100%; that's actually what I was going for. You phrased it a lot better than I though. When I say a "small sacrifice" I only mean to put it into perspective. The implications are of course huge. I also think it's quite possible that, historically, there was no crucifixion of Christ, but it would be a moot point. Similar self-sacrifice has been present throughout all history, and equally great has been shown by Christians themselves who allowed punishments just as great by the hands of Roman authorities; all thanks to the example led by the story of Jesus.

"...it is simply not possible to define an outer doctrine which accurately describes the reality of God. You can only know the reality of God through a direct inner experience." -Sananda

The only way to truely understand that God is real is to experience it for yourself.

I agree wholeheartedly. I also think this is why God doesn't exist, or doens't have to, as much as "he" does. The Buddhists and the Christians both acknowledged a great force that links the whole of existence. The Christians called it "God", the Buddhists called it "reality"; but both were immaterial, lacking in physical substance, yet of profound significance to those who dwell in the physical world. God only becomes God when we name it as such. I hold to the belief that it is not at all necessary to call it God, and such is not an insult or a rejection of those who do call it God.

Yet I try to explain that to my deity-worshipping friend here in the physical world, and he calls me "ignorant" and a "stubborn atheist". *sigh*

[Acouwaila]

I know exactly what you mean...the ego has so many layers of false judgements and illusory thoughts that we cant even begin to see . its the goggles on our eyes that we rarely take off....when people work independently they seek comfort....out of fear...when we take the goggles off were presented with such a huge confusion because our minds have been traveling west with the world turned upside down, so then we think we should travel east when the west leads us nowhere but back to the same place...but that aint the answer either...the answer is inside out....all of life shrinks to one point and then at the core of that point...the universe expands infinately inward...the answer is in the question....

it really is impossible to put things into perspective with language...it actually probably distorts it more. only because when things are defined thats adding one more layer of perception into a mind thats already clouded....and we know perception is nothing

theres one thing i dont understand about buddhism...

what was buddhas life about after he became enlightened....I know he continued to teach the ways and practice meditation the remainder of his life....but

what is the ultimate goal of buddhism? what is the ultimate final product supposed to produce...maybe there isnt supposed to be one....

the ultimate appreciation for life?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

theres one thing i dont understand about buddhism...

what was buddhas life about after he became enlightened....I know he continued to teach the ways and practice meditation the remainder of his life....but

what is the ultimate goal of buddhism? what is the ultimate final product supposed to produce...maybe there isnt supposed to be one....

the ultimate appreciation for life?

The goal of Buddhism is to end all suffering for yourself and all those your affect. Extinction of self is the path to extinction of suffering. It is the goal and duty of a Buddhist to help liberate all beings from samsara (the cycle of suffering). This is done carefully, though, as telling people that your way is the right way leads to conflict, and inevitably more suffering. It's like always leaving the offer of liberation open to all for the taking, but never trying to give it to them.

[Coelho]

Thats a nice thread, Gandalf! It will take me some time to think about it and reply properly (cause i DO believe in God).
Meanwhile, (and completly off topic BTW) you can get my email in my profile page... let me know when you get it, cause i dont wish to let it there for long... and you can ask anything you wish. If i were able to answer, i will. :thumbsup:

[hazetwostep]

good thoughts...

i believe the more abstract you get in your definition of god, the more accurate you probably are since the language of finite minds is so inadequate to describe the infinite.

man has created god in his own image... god has been shaped and boxed through humankind's attempt to label, like we label everything we come in contact with. god has been "human-a-fied."

i love the journey and search to know more and understand more about the infinite but there is only one conclusion (opinion) of truth that i believe we can truly come to in this existence...

"GOD IS."

[Coelho]

i believe the more abstract you get in your definition of god, the more accurate you probably are since the language of finite minds is so inadequate to describe the infinite.

Exactly what i think... and i think that its why the "usual" notion of God, held by "simpler" people, ("a man sitting in the sky") may be somehow "offensive" to some more "educated" people... while in fact God is far beyond any human notion, no matter how complex it can be, and never anything fathomable, predictable, nothing that can be molded in human parameters, nothing that be so simple to be ever comprehended by any human.

EDIT: Oh damnit! Some of my posts were deleted, so now this post is my 2012th again...

[Innominate]

That's trippy.