cannabis and out-of-body experiences

i am looking for some input from people with out-of-body experiences (OBE)...

earlier i filled a hot bath and had a smoke of some mid's, nothing special. as i got stoned i felt very focused in my concentration. i heard a ringing in my ears. as i focused on the ringing it brought me to an even deeper sense of relaxation and concentration. i started hearing a buzzing in my ears.

it reminded me of some things i had read about OBE's earlier though i have no practical experience with it. so i pictured my 'astral' legs lifting out, then my arms, then my torso. i felt no different. as i pictured my 'astral' head coming free i started feeling tingling all over my skin especially in my face. it was like 'whoa!' i then pictured/willed my astral body to lean backwards and as i did that i felt my 'mind' peel away from my physical senses.

i then found 'my mind' floating several feet behind where i sensed my physical body. i couldn't see anything and there was no sound.. not that it was quiet but there seemed to be an absense of sound.

i am not sure how to process all that... any insight from experienced people. does that sound like a true OBE or what? any dangers in having cannabis initiated OBE's?

Man... all i can say its that i envy you! Ive tried OOBE during several years, and hadnt any sucess... like... im very lazy so most of times i just felt asleep. Anyway, ive felt a lot of weird things... this ringing in the ears and the tingling you described... (some books calls it "vibrational state")... the feeling of being floating... the feeling of being somewhere else... well... now that i stop to think, i think i already felt everything you described... also i had a lot of experiences which i couldnt classify... for me they felt like very vivid conscious dreams... like i could even doubt if i were dreaming or awake... but i could do things i wouldnt when awake (like to fly... my preferred one...) I could regard them as OOBE's, but my skeptic side doesnt allow... only because some minor details... like... most times i "dream" im in my home, but there is somethings that are a bit different, like furniture, the surrounding houses, etc... so im inclined to think they were only vivid and lucid dreams, instead OOBEs... but i would like very much to learn how to diferentiate a lucid dream from a real OOBE...
And i dont think there is any danger to OOBE with weed... in fact, not much time ago there was a thread about weed-induced OOBEs... and several people reported their experiences... so i think its an almost "usual" thing... look at:
http://boards.cannabis.com/experienc...rson-veiw.html
I hope someone give us answers... cause im almost as full of questions as you... :thumbsup:

Please! Anyone else could enlighten us? :abduct:

Hey, whats up everyone? Coelho, I wanted to share my experience. I had a very vivid OOBE a couple of years ago. None since then. I didn't know until recently that there are books that are all about astral projections and how to do induce them and I plan on checking some of them out soon. I thought my OOBE was just a freak dream or something, even though at the time it occured I knew I wasn't asleep. It was totally unexpected and I was totally confused afterwards but it was not scary at all. I am going to try and describe it in the best detail I can. Here is what I can remember:

At the time it of my projection, I was resting on my couch in my apartment on a Sunday afternoon. The night before, my younger brother, who was my roomate at the time, threw a party and trashed the place. I came home in the morning after staying a friends house to a super trashed apartment that smelled horrible with people passed out on the floor, couches, chairs, etc, and even my bed which really pissed me off. So, to say the least, I wasn't in a very pleasant state of mind. After I kicked everyone out, I layed down on the couch alone in the apartment to try and clear my mind before I started to clean up. As I was laying there, the wind started to blow very hard outside my window on a calm day so I tried to open my eyes to see what was going on and that was when it happened. The next thing I remember is feeling my "self" or "inner being" leaving my body and floating above my apartment looking down on the entire apartment. I could see myself laying on my couch from above. It was totally trippy. After roughly 10-15 seconds, I must have gotten scared about what was happening and my "self" returned to my body. The feeling that went over my body during the reunion was unreal. It was like a wave of electricity through every single cell in my body. I felt "new". It was crazy. All I knew afterwards was that I experienced something that was totally "out of this world". The only thing I can say brought on this experience was the reading of books by Robert A. Wilson. The man is a genius. He never mentions that you would experience something like this as you are reading his books and I now understand why he does this. He wants the reader to view their experience without any previous knowledge of what may or may not happen or what you may or may not feel. No pre-judgements. I hope this helps. Feel free to ask any questions.

YES! I had my first true out of body experience while stoned. It all started very strangely. I was doing a lot of Kripalu yoga at the time so I think that had something to do with it. I had just begun reading Robert Monroes book "Journey's out of the body" which I highly reccomend if your into OOBE's. He described his experiences in detail and it was exactly like mine, except he wasn't stoned when his happened. It was very strange. Whenever I got stoned, I would "vibrate", literally I would feel as if I was vibrating. Sometimes very violently and I would have to sit up to stop it. He described that as the first step towards leaving the body. So I would practice that almost every night. Get stoned, lay down and let those relaxing vibrations come on. This went on for about three or so weeks when I finally was able to see some real results. I had just gotten done meditating (stilling your mind is a very important skill to learn if you're going to get into this) and was still stoned so I decided to lay down and try to leave my body. I was determined this time and was going to do it. I entered into a "waking sleep" state and just thought myself out of my body. Opening your eyes in this state is extremely difficult. You cannot think your eyes open, you just have to believe that they are already open. So I thought myself out of my body and felt the ceiling of my room. I felt my back against something hard and bumpy and "believed" my eyes open and I was staring back at the couch I was on. Strangely, I couldn't see my body for some reason, but I was there floating. So I floated around my room and in the nearby room, then I decided it was time to go back.

One other thing that was strange was when I was in that "waking sleep" state, I heard a female voice say "Are you ready?" before I left my body. To this day I am sure that was my guarding angel or spirit guide or whatever asking me if I was ready to see this world. I was at the time, but I have no desire to go back there again. It's not that I was scared. Far from that, but it's just that right after that experience I had a Satori, or glimpse into enlightenment and ever since that, I just don't desire any siddhis, which is what Astral projection is, a siddhis or spirtual power. It was very strange, I was obsed with OOBE's and other Siddhis, but after that night I just don't care about them anymore.

Word of advice, don't go into that world unless you are 100% ready and 100% protected. I for one believe in spirits and also malevolent spirits which can be harmful to you if you don't protect yourself. Just simply keep your thoughts on positive things and before you do this, mediate and imagine a sheet of white light coming over you, filling all your chakras and evey cell of your body. It also helps to have a skeptical attidude.


Oh, and to the poster, yes you are well on your way to having a full on OBE. Buzzing in your ear is a very common spiritual experience. I've actually heard what sounded like Bee's right near my ear and Robert Monroe describes that as well. As far as dangers, there aren't that many, but I wouldn't stay in that world to long. I believe it's the spirit world and there are things that can happen to you if you are not careful. Monroe describes certain very frightening things that have happened to him, but remember you cannot die from it. If things get too bad, just think yourself back to your body. Another thing is I said skill in meditating is very useful because just as your thoughts slightly control this universe, it most defiently controls every aspect of tha

that universe. Just keep your thoughts clear because you'll end up all over the place if you don't.

Sorry, I guess there's an edit limit.

I've had several out of body experiences while in the past six months I have smoked cannabis. Yesterday for example i closed my eyes and felt (what I described as my soul) leave my body and go into the universe which seemed to last forever. I then fell back into earth and hovered over my body and jumped back into it. I remember this very intense feeling as I jumped back into my body...I yelled out WOOOOOH right when it happened. It was an incredible experience.

I believe marijuana is a shamanistic drug. Anyone interested in astral travel check out the book, Astral Travel for Beginners. Astral Travel is a skill you can develop with practice. The two most important things if you want to do it are, don't give up, and try different methods.

Astral Travel is completely safe, no one has ever died doing it. Your astral self is connected to your body by an unbreakable silver cord.

I would talk more about it, but you might think I am crazy....

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Originally Posted by angry nomad

I would talk more about it, but you might think I am crazy....

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We all are... so please, talk more! :stoned::madnoel:

Oh my god, i know what you mean, i had the starting of a similar expirience except i wasn't stoned.

I was just getting into bed, about 2 years ago. as i started to settle down i glanced up at my wardrobe at the end of my bed and my neck clicked, it didnt hurt it was just on odd sensasion so i froze, compeletly still, eyes open staring at the top of my wardrobe, within seconds i become aware of a tingling in my neck, where it had clicked, at first i contributed this to the fact that it had clicked and i hadnt moved, but then it started to spread to my eyes, then my ears, which then turned into a vibration. a kind of peace came over me, but with it a sense of urgency, as if i needed to continue to staring, and still, as if it would grant me somekind of...i dunno some kind of power, or understanding that would enpower me beoynd my understanding. i continued to stare for what seemed like an age, the tingling had spread to a few more places. i had a kind of feeling, as if it was a biuld up to something (the only way i can describe it is when you know your about to cum, you can kind of feel it coming) i got a kinda warmness in my heart (not the soppy kind actaul heat) i took the smallest of breaths and i was sure it was about to happen, what ever 'it' was.
and then
my sister opened my door and it shattered like a pane of glass
i could have criedm, i could have hit her.
she got a book ( i have a huge book pile in my room) and left, i then felt very light needed and realised i hadn't taken a decent breath in about 10 mins. so i sat there, breathing, my eyes wondering, coming back to that spot every now and agin.
i was on the verge of something i could feel it, i knew it.
its a damn waste, what if i could have gained somekind of understanding, or somekind of power that enabled to me make that discorvery. i was gutted and i still am
ah well i hope that helped someone
Love n Stuff:hippy:

yes please tell us more

love n stuff (hippy type thingy that isnt on quick reply)

The other day really felt that an angel was sitting right next to me listening to me talk, and I felt extremely close to God. It was amazing

can you explain more fully about this cos i'm into all that stuff at the moment, Stigmarta and the like
Love n Stuffxxx

I'm not too sure if it's counted as an OBE
but:

had smoked a considerable amount in hyde park, jumped on a train
was pretty baked, so all i could do was stare at my jeans
i started blinking rapidly while looking at the lines in my jeans, patterns started emerging
i started seeing what appeared to be a cave of some sort, that crumbled, and up came a small log cabin sorta thing, that again crumbled and more and more advanced housing forms came and went - like i was going through the stages of civilisations. Ended with some fucking skull castle thing, hope that isnt the future o.0

told my mates about this, and when they tried it; worked for them too, albeit different effects. One saw images of the US Presidents

try it, if its like mine; it wont be proper images, more like white dots coming together to form it

Not quite the same thing.

You can't try to have an OBE most of the time. It has to just happen without you even noticing it. And for me it will only happen if I am alone. And being outside late at night under the stars always helps alot

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Originally Posted by zeitgeist

You can't try to have an OBE most of the time. It has to just happen without you even noticing it. And for me it will only happen if I am alone. And being outside late at night under the stars always helps alot

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Well... there is a lot of books, sites, and etc that teaches lots of techniques for achieving OOBEs... and they require hard work... so... how cant people try to have an OOBE? :confused: Maybe thats why i didnt suceed until today?

And Im sure the books will tell you to relax. When you are trying hard to have an OOBE its kinda hard for it to happen. Even when you dont think about it, it doesnt mean it's gonna happen. It's just random. But whatever this is me and the majority of people I know. I hope it works for you though

I get OBE's VERY frequently. All I have to do is smoke a bit, and close my eyes and feel my "energy" moving left and right really fast. Soon, the visuals come in and I can see myself and do whatever.

Bottom line: the more you can do it, the easier it is. ;)

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Originally Posted by zeitgeist

You can't try to have an OBE most of the time. It has to just happen without you even noticing it. And for me it will only happen if I am alone. And being outside late at night under the stars always helps alot

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Of course you can try man!! The more you try, the more successful you'll be. As previously stated, there are many techniques that can be utilised to project. Different ones work differently for different people. Maybe you should do some more reading on the subject so you can take a bit more control over your experiences. It is WELL worth the effort!

Happy travellings!!

Out of Body Experiences: Keywords: OOBE, Astral Projection

Check this link out. This guy (Robert Peterson) knows his shit!

Loads more info here for those who want it!

Astral Workings

Learn, experiment, and have fun, i do!

DMT(in ayahuasca) and Salvinorum A (in salvia divinorum) are the fastest ways to get what you guys are describing. That said, I do NOT advise anyone who is not experienced with similar substances to try them without lots of proper research.

I was the first to give a personal experience to the original poster months ago when this thread was started. I havn't visited this thread in awhile and was pleasantly suprised to see it is still going with lots of good info and others experiences. Anyway, I want to add some more insight as to what I believe may have induced my OOBE. My life was in total chaos when I had my OOBE. A series of negative events (not just the ones on that day) that occured in my life around that time was really taking its toll on my spiritual, mental, and physical health. It seemed like every thought that entered my mind was negative even though I have had maintained a positive view about life until those series of events. Now, when I read this advice from Dream of the Iris, "stilling your mind is a very important skill to learn if you're going to get into this" I was reminded and/or brought back to my state of mind on the couch that day. I remembered that I was so tired of the negative thoughts in my head that I forced myself into a stilled state where no thoughts were going through my mind at all. It was in that moment that the OOBE began. Did the OOBE happen because of this? I'm not sure but imho yes my stilled or completely thoughtless mind had something to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Bizzle2008

I remembered that I was so tired of the negative thoughts in my head that I forced myself into a stilled state where no thoughts were going through my mind at all. It was in that moment that the OOBE began. Did the OOBE happen because of this? I'm not sure but imho yes my stilled or completely thoughtless mind had something to do with it.

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Well... keeping the mind clear of thoughts is the first step to a lot of alterated states of consciousness, as OOBEs, meditative trances, lucid dreaming, "stopping the world", etc... i wouldnt say that your OOBE happened because of only this, but surely it was one crucial step to it happen.

haha awesome to see this thread still going!!! good stuff too.. since i posted this thread i had very little success with OBE's and kind of gave up. Some of the stuff i have read has reinspired my desire to explore!

I had a couple when I was about 10. We used to play wrestle a lot, and at one point I was underneath this other guy, totally unable to move and struggling as much as I could. Suddenly I was looking at the side of my own head (not much more than the side of my face gong back to my ear). It only lasted a few seconds, but it was long enough to recognise myself. I could still see myself struggling and I knew I was separate from my body, but it didn't feel odd at all, quite calm and normal somehow.

I read a lot about them during my teens and it seems that all the stuff about people seeing silver cords connecting you to your body is made up. Interesting experience.

MelT

I've got stoned and drifted from a thought onto a journey to far away known places thanks to those thoughts ... but i believe it's possible to achieve all of these states even without the use of a psychedelic ! Psychedelics can however enhance the experience to a large extent !

Love & Light

:)

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Originally Posted by Bizzle2008

I remembered that I was so tired of the negative thoughts in my head that I forced myself into a stilled state where no thoughts were going through my mind at all. It was in that moment that the OOBE began. Did the OOBE happen because of this? I'm not sure but imho yes my stilled or completely thoughtless mind had something to do with it.

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Congratulations! You've just had your first Satori! This is truly special, more so then the OOBE. I would suggest using that experience to help you along your path and to read more about achieving that state continuesly. That thoughtless mind is what enlightenment is. Now that you've glimpsed it, I would suggest you work on yourself. A good place to start is reading related books, such as The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle or join a yoga/meditation class.

As Cohelo said, your OOBE did not happen as a result of that, but it did aid in the process. The thoughtless mind is more important then the OOBE, however.

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

Congratulations! You've just had your first Satori! This is truly special, more so then the OOBE. I would suggest using that experience to help you along your path and to read more about achieving that state continuesly. That thoughtless mind is what enlightenment is.

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The so-called Satori is just this? Being thoughtless? If it is so, im sure i had several ones... whenever i use weed + (some unnameable), during some seconds my consciousness enters in a state of pure awareness. I can only percieve the world around (or even stop to percieve it) and dont think absolutely anything. In fact, i cant even comprehend very well what im percieving. The only thing im aware is i feel like if i had realized some very deep thing, if i had a glimpse of "the meaning of the life", "the secret of the universe", whataver... i feel the same sudden realization we feel at the moment we understand a joke, and that is what makes us laugh... and so i laugh and laugh continuously because i figured the deepest and yet the simplest and most obvious thing in the world... but it is beyond words. I cant explain (nor even remember rightly) what is this thing i always realize whenever i reach this state of consciousness. After several repetitions, i could figure that its something that resembles itself, or rather, this is the only concept defined by words that i could notice that has anything to do with whatever i realized.
Then, after some moments in this state, my mind slowly re-starts to think, but the thoughts are scattered and with some intervals of not thinking between them, and it makes the sequence of thoughts very crazy, as it consists of completly unrelated thoughts...
And when all this craziness ends, im back to the "normal" world. Feeling very happy, at peace with everything, and relaxed... (far more than if i had only smoked).
So is it the so-called enlightenment? While it is a very remarkable experience indeed, and maybe even life-changing, as after i had it i could see the world in a different way, i still am not sure if what i experienced was THE enlightenment. So, what do you think?

THE enlightenment doesn't really exist. If it did, then you wouldn't be able to experience it because it would be something so remarkable that you would constantly try to live up to these false expections. This is the illusion that so many people have fallen into. That state is very achievable in this lifetime and you had a true glimpse of it. The fact that you even glimpsed it is proof enough that it is not something remarkable and something that has to be "achieved". If you think this, you will always be chasing an imaginary dream that doesn't really exist. Remember, it is in the NOW that "enlightenment" exist. I know, I'm pluggging Tolle's words here, but I can't stress how much truth there is in those words.

You stated that you cannot comprehend what you experienced, because the mind cannot comprehend "enlightenment" or the NOW. And you're absolutely right. It is the most simple and obvious thing in the world, and yet we cannot comprehend it because we are too stuck in our minds. We identify with these things called thoughts and we say, "This is real. This is how I feel, so it must be real." "Enlightenment" IS pure awareness, without thoughts. It is NOT something mystical, something to be "obtained". When people are working on themselves they may be trying to achieve it, but they are ultimately fooling themselves when they think they are "achieving" something. It is not about achieving. It is about realizing that what they "wanted" they already had. So when you meditate, that's great. Because ultimately, you need to work on yourself, not in order to "acheive" anything. But in order to practice stilling the mind so that your natural state can come out. In reality, you never achieved anything, but you actually "downgraded" back to your natural state. Achieving something implies ego and that is exactly what you want to avoid.

Ramana Marashi said it like this. "Enlightenment is an unlearning".

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

THE enlightenment doesn't really exist. If it did, then you wouldn't be able to experience it because it would be something so remarkable that you would constantly try to live up to these false expections. This is the illusion that so many people have fallen into. That state is very achievable in this lifetime and you had a true glimpse of it. The fact that you even glimpsed it is proof enough that it is not something remarkable and something that has to be "achieved". If you think this, you will always be chasing an imaginary dream that doesn't really exist.

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Man... while i understand it, i cant help of being a bit disappointed... since long ago i wished to be enlightened, thinking it would be a great thing, like angels coming from the sky (lol :D), something "mystic" indeed... and now i learn that i was already enlightened... not that it diminishes the experience itself, as it keeps being uncomprehensible and mind staggering, but i somehow feel like if i had lost a goal i was chasing since long. And it brings the question: and now? What to do from now?

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

When people are working on themselves they may be trying to achieve it, but they are ultimately fooling themselves when they think they are "achieving" something. It is not about achieving. It is about realizing that what they "wanted" they already had.

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Thats SO true... i remember when i was in this state i would feel completly peaceful, complete, indeed like if i had everything i would wish... i can say in that moments i was as happy and contented as one can be, for just being alive and breathing... it seemed like if breathing was the only thing that really mattered, and i could breath as much as i wished... so in that moments i was really satisfied, and it was amazing...

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

So when you meditate, that's great. Because ultimately, you need to work on yourself, not in order to "acheive" anything. But in order to practice stilling the mind so that your natural state can come out. In reality, you never achieved anything, but you actually "downgraded" back to your natural state.

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

Ramana Marashi said it like this. "Enlightenment is an unlearning".

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Indeed... during this states i would also feel like if i had remembered something forgotten LONG ago, something buried very very deep, something very primitive,very basic... but i cant say or even figure out what it was...

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

Achieving something implies ego and that is exactly what you want to avoid.

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The ego... the damned ego... even if its a very enjoyable experience, i (my ego maybe?) always am afraid to enter this states... even if just after ive been there i always say to myself "i SHOULD do it more often", there is something that stops me... i always find an excuse to only enjoy the high of weed, without using the unnameable and reaching this "enlightened" state... is my ego fearing its death? Is it who is trying to avoid me reaching the enlightenment? I would like to know, and how to ovecome it...

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Originally Posted by Coelho

And it brings the question: and now? What to do from now?

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Whatever it is you do, do that. If you feel you need to do more, then do that. The point is, whatever you are doing, you are there.

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Thats SO true... i remember when i was in this state i would feel completely peaceful, complete, indeed like if i had everything i would wish... i can say in that moments i was as happy and contented as one can be, for just being alive and breathing... it seemed like if breathing was the only thing that really mattered, and i could breath as much as i wished... so in that moments i was really satisfied, and it was amazing...

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Yes, that's it! It takes an incredible about of focus to stay in that state continuously. For most people, it is much too hard to even glimpse. For myself, it is incredibly difficult. I'd say I can enter that state once or twice a day, but it never last more then a half-hour, at least not yet. Some days are better then others and some days I can be in that state for most of the day, but it is still very difficult and those days are rare. Especially if you haven't dealt with past pain that keeps coming up.

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The ego... the damned ego... even if its a very enjoyable experience, i (my ego maybe?) always am afraid to enter this states... even if just after ive been there i always say to myself "i SHOULD do it more often", there is something that stops me... i always find an excuse to only enjoy the high of weed, without using the unnameable and reaching this "enlightened" state... is my ego fearing its death? Is it who is trying to avoid me reaching the enlightenment? I would like to know, and how to overcome it...

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That is most definitely your ego. ANY fear is ego and any sort of pain is also your ego. I, too, was afraid of the state. That I'd go crazy if I entered it more often and sometimes I felt I was crazy, but ultimately this is illusion and it is not real. There is nothing to fear there, as that is your natural state. It's like being afraid of the naked body behind the clothes you wear. That is your natural state, so it is useless to fear it. I'm not advocating running around naked here, but the point is that your natural state is nothing to be afraid of, to run away from. You should embrace it.

In order to overcome the ego, you must watch it. Learn from it. You can only overcome it once you know what it is. I myself need to learn more from it, so I am where you are. Past pain keeps coming up and hindering my progress and it is sometimes very difficult to focus on the present moment.

Oh, and a sidenote, astral projection won't get you there any quicker. Think of that as a result of spiritual development, but it will not get you there any quicker. In fact, if you don't know what you are doing in the astral realm you can attract some pretty nasty spirits who would love nothing more then to see you suffer. I don't mean to scare you, but to warn you. I would stay away from that stuff until you've progressed spiritually.

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

Whatever it is you do, do that. If you feel you need to do more, then do that. The point is, whatever you are doing, you are there.

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Yes... there is even a Zen (or something like) quote, that says:
"If youre hungry, do eat, if youre sleepy, do sleep."
It seems obvious, but in fact its very hard to do this... we always do what we dont want or need and do not what we want or need...

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

Yes, that's it! It takes an incredible about of focus to stay in that state continuously. For most people, it is much too hard to even glimpse. For myself, it is incredibly difficult. I'd say I can enter that state once or twice a day, but it never last more then a half-hour, at least not yet. Some days are better then others and some days I can be in that state for most of the day, but it is still very difficult and those days are rare. Especially if you haven't dealt with past pain that keeps coming up.

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HALF-HOUR!!! Damn, man... i only can stay in that state for 5-10 minutes at most, and only while the unmentionable's effect lasts... without it, only meditating with help of weed, i only got some glimpses which lasted only seconds... and they were very weaker, and not enough for making a lasting impression... i could only recognize that i was in the same "enlightened" state i knew, but it was way too fleeting... so i surely admire greatly that monks that sit and meditate for long hours, even days, until reach this state, only by use of the mind, without even some weed to help them... THAT is determination and persistence... only we, who know how hard it is, can recognize and admire properly this feats of them.

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

That is most definitely your ego. ANY fear is ego and any sort of pain is also your ego. I, too, was afraid of the state. That I'd go crazy if I entered it more often and sometimes I felt I was crazy, but ultimately this is illusion and it is not real. There is nothing to fear there, as that is your natural state. It's like being afraid of the naked body behind the clothes you wear. That is your natural state, so it is useless to fear it. I'm not advocating running around naked here, but the point is that your natural state is nothing to be afraid of, to run away from. You should embrace it.

In order to overcome the ego, you must watch it. Learn from it. You can only overcome it once you know what it is. I myself need to learn more from it, so I am where you are. Past pain keeps coming up and hindering my progress and it is sometimes very difficult to focus on the present moment.

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And not only pain hinders us from reaching the enlightenment... for me sometimes its fear, or desires, or any tricks the ego does to get my attention for it and distract me from my goal... and, unfortunately, most time the ego succeed... as it knows us very well (in fact, better than anyone else), as it was grown up and feeded and taken care by us during all its life... damn it!
Sometimes i think the "original sin", when supposedly Adam and Eve learned the good and the evil is a parable for the introduction of the ego in the human minds. Because good and evil are classifications of acts (or thoughts or whatever) of someone. Someone does good or bad things. But only if someone has the notion of self, of "me", it can classify its own acts as being good or evil. "I" did something, and this something is good or bad. But if there were not "I", this something would just happened, no one would be able to say "I" did it, because there would not be an "I" to be said that it did something.
The Bible continues, and says that only after eating it they realized they were naked. But if there were not an ego, they wouldnt be able to separate their bodies from the outside world. For them, it would be the same thing, or at least, parts of the same thing, and not one "me, here" and "everything else, there". And so their nakedness would be only more one part of the nature, and not something important, as it become when they know that their "mes" were naked.
And after having an ego they would inavoidably trasmit it for their children, as it would be impossible for a person be raised by parents having an ego without also developing a ego. It would explain the fact that "all men were made sinners by Adam".
Of course i can be quite wrong. I dont know. But for me it makes all the sense.

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

Oh, and a sidenote, astral projection won't get you there any quicker. Think of that as a result of spiritual development, but it will not get you there any quicker. In fact, if you don't know what you are doing in the astral realm you can attract some pretty nasty spirits who would love nothing more then to see you suffer. I don't mean to scare you, but to warn you. I would stay away from that stuff until you've progressed spiritually.

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Well... while i stopped to deliberately try to astral project, i still do it during my dreams. If i were to use the correct naming, i would have to call what i do of etheric projection, instead astral projection, cause i never entered (consciously) the astral plane, but only remained in the physical (or etherical) plane, the one which more resembles the "real" (physical) world. And fortunately i dont remember being bothered by any spirits, entities or whatever... anyway, i never meant to do it as means of reaching enlightenment, but mainly for curiosity, for the desire of see the hidden things beyond the physical plane we see and live on... but until today i didnt succeed in being anywhere "beyond" the physical plane, or rather, i dont remember of anything about it, even if probably i (as all of us) already have been "there" a lot.

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Originally Posted by Coelho

HALF-HOUR!!! Damn, man... i only can stay in that state for 5-10 minutes at most, and only while the unmentionable's effect lasts... without it, only meditating with help of weed, i only got some glimpses which lasted only seconds... and they were very weaker, and not enough for making a lasting impression... i could only recognize that i was in the same "enlightened" state i knew, but it was way too fleeting...

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It is still incredibly difficult to stay in that state for more then a half-hour. And even that is truly rare for me. It happened more often when I smoked more, but I don't really like smoking too much as I find it doesn't help my spiritual development. It's a great tool and helped to jump start my "unlearning", but too much of anything is a hindrance in my book. A great way to stay in that state for longer periods is to accept where you are at the present moment. That means accept your present circumstances wherever you may be and whatever you may be feeling. If you long for enlightenment, then accept that, don't resist it saying in your mind, "I shouldn't be feeling this way". Accept that you feel that way and surrender to it. I also find noticing the space between things a great way to stay in that state. What I mean is, look at anything, a book, a statue, a tree, a sound even. Notice that whatever it is came from nothing and will return to nothing eventually. Sound is a better example because it comes into existence from nothing and exist for a moment in nothing and returns to nothing almost as fast as it came into existence. I find it helpful to notice this and to try and feel that space as best as possible. That means not thinking about it, but letting the space be and whatever is in that space be as well.

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so i surely admire greatly that monks that sit and meditate for long hours, even days, until reach this state, only by use of the mind, without even some weed to help them... THAT is determination and persistence... only we, who know how hard it is, can recognize and admire properly this feats of them.

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True, I agree. It is truly amazing, but they are really no different then you are deep down.

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The Bible continues, and says that only after eating it they realized they were naked. But if there were not an ego, they wouldnt be able to separate their bodies from the outside world. For them, it would be the same thing, or at least, parts of the same thing, and not one "me, here" and "everything else, there". And so their nakedness would be only more one part of the nature, and not something important, as it become when they know that their "mes" were naked.
And after having an ego they would inavoidably trasmit it for their children, as it would be impossible for a person be raised by parents having an ego without also developing a ego. It would explain the fact that "all men were made sinners by Adam".
Of course i can be quite wrong. I dont know. But for me it makes all the sense.

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I agree as well. It makes sense.

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Well... while i stopped to deliberately try to astral project, i still do it during my dreams. If i were to use the correct naming, i would have to call what i do of etheric projection, instead astral projection, cause i never entered (consciously) the astral plane, but only remained in the physical (or etherical) plane, the one which more resembles the "real" (physical) world. And fortunately i dont remember being bothered by any spirits, entities or whatever... anyway, i never meant to do it as means of reaching enlightenment, but mainly for curiosity, for the desire of see the hidden things beyond the physical plane we see and live on... but until today i didnt succeed in being anywhere "beyond" the physical plane, or rather, i dont remember of anything about it, even if probably i (as all of us) already have been "there" a lot.

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Yeah, I've heard that when we dream we enter the astral realm. What's beyond the etherical plane? I know there are other planes, but I'm not sure what they are called.

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

It is still incredibly difficult to stay in that state for more then a half-hour. And even that is truly rare for me. It happened more often when I smoked more, but I don't really like smoking too much as I find it doesn't help my spiritual development. It's a great tool and helped to jump start my "unlearning", but too much of anything is a hindrance in my book. A great way to stay in that state for longer periods is to accept where you are at the present moment. That means accept your present circumstances wherever you may be and whatever you may be feeling. If you long for enlightenment, then accept that, don't resist it saying in your mind, "I shouldn't be feeling this way". Accept that you feel that way and surrender to it. I also find noticing the space between things a great way to stay in that state. What I mean is, look at anything, a book, a statue, a tree, a sound even. Notice that whatever it is came from nothing and will return to nothing eventually. Sound is a better example because it comes into existence from nothing and exist for a moment in nothing and returns to nothing almost as fast as it came into existence. I find it helpful to notice this and to try and feel that space as best as possible. That means not thinking about it, but letting the space be and whatever is in that space be as well.

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Well... after some thought, i noticed my greatest problem. My intent is weak. I dont really care about being enlightened or not. Its VERY hard for me to admit it even for myself, but unfortunately its the crude truth... And so im easily distracted, cause i dont put enough effort on in. Thats the same thing that happened when i tried to astral project. I never suceeded doing it consciously because i didnt really cared about it, it was only a "passtime", or something like this, and so i never put the necessary effort to actually succeed in it.
I only reach this enlightened states when im under the effect of the unmentionable, that throws my consciousness at this state without any effort of my part... but when i try to do it myself, my ego always find an way to distract me, and as my intent is weak, i end by accepting the egos interference, instead to keep trying.
I hope someday my intent grew stronger enough to overcome this problems, though...

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

Yeah, I've heard that when we dream we enter the astral realm. What's beyond the etherical plane? I know there are other planes, but I'm not sure what they are called.

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Well... the usual occult description says that there is the physical plane, the etheric plane (which is the "higher" part of the physical plane, and which is responsible by the physical sensations), the astral plane (where there are the emotions, desires and feelings), the mental plane (where there are the thoughts), the buddhic plane (where there are the spiritual insight), and other higher planes unacessible to normal humans in their usual levels of evolution.
A very good description of this planes can be read here.
(BTW, this entire book is VERY interesting and a MUST read for anyone who have interest in this subjects).

Well, find your intent! Lol, we need more enlightened souls in this world.

So I smoked medicinal marijuana from Cali for the first time yesterday.
(I live in New York by the way)
& I could honestly say I have never experienced anything like this in my life.

I got high after just 1 hit, & I was high within 10 seconds.
After my hit (which was a really strong hit), I began to sweat like crazy.

After about 5-10 minutes, I was beyond fucked up.
I began to hear my heart beating, & it was beating SO loudly.
We decided to go to the mall, which at the time seemed like a great idea.
I could barely walk. I was just so numb.

But the best part of all this was that about 20 minutes after initially smoking, I began to feel like I was having this like almost out of body experience.
I felt like a cartoon character or like I was in a video game.
When I would pick up my arm to move hair out of my face, my reaction was so delayed that I didn't even realize that I was picking up my arm.
I felt like I was sort of in a dream, looking in through my eyes.
It's so hard to explain.
But I knew that I was high, & I knew that this wasn't a regular high, & that I was having an experience that I might never have again.
Dodging people in the mall became almost like a game to me.

Just wanted to share this with you guys.
Any thoughts?

THOUGHTS?!? ;D HELL YEAH! I'm thinkin "where can i get me somma that???"


Never been that high before, but the best high i ever had was the first high (and a few tiems that were just like it), where it felt like oxygen was an ocean and i was at the bottom of it, the sheer volume of pressure was simply uncanny.


It is the nicest feeling i have ever experienced.

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Originally Posted by Dream of the iris

Well, find your intent! Lol, we need more enlightened souls in this world.

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Life is good.

Gilbert