Chistians=FEAR Jesus=LOVE

It is difficult to imagine Jesus being afraid of anything, including God. In Old Testament times, the Jews had created an image of God as being an angry and judgmental God who was ready to punish people for the slightest transgression of his laws. Jesus brought a distinctly different view of God, namely that of a loving Father figure.

After the time of Jesus, some Christian churches, especially during the Middle Ages, reverted back to a frightening image of God. Yet if this image is out of touch with Jesus' teachings on God, why should modern Christians continue to hold on to it?

It is also difficult to see Jesus having a fear-based approach to religion. He clearly was not afraid of the orthodox Jewish authorities. In fact, one might argue that it was his open independence and defiance that got him killed. So why should modern Christians have a fear-based approach to religion? Why should they fear a particular church or the authorities of a church? Why should they fear that by thinking about ideas outside orthodox doctrine, they will go to Hell? Jesus clearly did not believe that his followers would go to Hell for accepting ideas that went far beyond Jewish doctrine.

Jesus clearly was not afraid to question the authorities, the scriptures or the official interpretation of the scriptures. So why should modern Christians be afraid to ask questions that go beyond orthodox doctrines? Jesus told us to seek, and he clearly was not afraid to seek beyond the orthodox doctrines of his time. Why should we be afraid to seek beyond the doctrines and dogmas of our time?

Jesus clearly loved God, and he told us to love God with all of our hearts, minds and souls. Fear and love are incompatible emotions. You want to get close to what you love, and you want to get away from what you fear. So if Jesus told us to love God, then he clearly wanted us to overcome all fear related to God and religion. In fact, he talked about the perfect love that casts out all fear.

If we want to truly follow Jesus, should we not seek and accept that perfect love and stop living in fear?

i would like to point out that the jewish faith had changed not too long after jesus was born, that jesus was acting on the roots of judiasm.

jesus was the last TRUE jew of his time.

Although the title of the thread is a bit misleading, you do make a very good point.

Jesus was a rebel, and he got crucified for it. What is the suffering that he asked us to endure when he told us to pick up our own crosses and follow him? I don't think it is the suffering of atonement for our sins; especially assuming that Jesus has already absolved those when he died on the cross. "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven". How could one attain the kingdom of heaven, rejecting materialism and all the stipulations thereof, without dissenting to authority and it's laws?

It is just the suffering of following a different path than everyone else. Our "own crosses" is another way of saying our own higher being or higher state of consiousness.

jesus was the last TRUE jew of his time.


I agree. He was also the first TRUE jew of his time.
:pimp:

of his time anyways... lol before he was born, what he became was the avarage jew, minus the miracles :P


they held the same beliefs and stuff, but many of the higher ups decided to use the religion to seize more power and instilled fear in the faith, which is the work not of god, but of a devil.

Belial... not Lucifer.

Lucifer rules hell, but is not evil. lucifer wants power, but hates Satan. satan. who tricked lucifer into falling.


i hate talking about christian things like that, i feel like a nut :P

I love Satan, therefore he cannot touch me.

dont lose respect for his ability to trick you, be wary that it is possible he can touch you. there is no universal defense against illusions and trickery.

Stoner, we may be on the same track here..both of us fighting pride, but I am definatly a bit farther ahead than you, I already know this. Satan is not real, it is just the absence of God.

acctually sorry, with the information I gave, that was acctually a very wise thing to say. If you recieved a good feeling from that comment remember, that feeling is negative, this is what we are fighting..we must remain uncomfortable with ourselves.

1: huh? lol further ahead in what sense?

"satan" as far as i have heard merely means "enemy".

although there are spiritual influences out there. they influence thoughts, and there is a being who influences greed, and hatred, and i have heard this being referred to by two names, perhaps they are separate, perhaps one and the same; Belial, and Demurge.

influences like this go against free will, so we are, in a sense, at odds, as most spirits look down upon interfering with free will.

2: why need we remain uncomfertable with ourselves? what purpose does this serve?


i've heard of humility and being humble, but to be uncomfertable with one's self seems arbitrary to me.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." â??Matthew 10:28

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." â??Luke 12:5

Read your Bible before you go off saying that Jesus portrayed a God we should not fear. Remember that Jesus and the New Testament introduced one critical new element that was absent in Jewish theology: eternal hellfire. Jews don't believe in hell. That's a New Testament thing. Jews fear God for reasons other than the idea that he'll kick your ass after you're dead if you don't play nice.

It's no surprise lots of Christians who later wanted to manipulate the masses latched onto this idea of a God we should fear because he'll send you to hell if you don't beg him for forgiveness. Fear is an excellent way to manipulate people, and when they fear the almighty creator of the universe, they will play right into your hands so long as you appear to represent that being.

The teachings of Jesus are so effective at trapping people into fear precisely because on the surface the ideology he promotes seems so nice and peaceful. Love thy neighbor, love thy enemy, turn the other cheek, give to the poor and forgive people...yeah, these are good ideas, we say. This Jesus guy sure must know what he's talking about. He tells us he is the only way to salvation, and he seems like a charming enough fellow, so why not trust him? Oh, then he mentions that if he doesn't forgive you for every sin you commit you face everlasting punishment.

Everlasting fucking punishment. From a God who is supposed to be loving and forgiving. But hey, the Lord works in mysterious ways. We can't possibly understand why eternal torture is really merciful. Besides, if you don't believe in this God and you're wrong, well, you're pretty fucked, so you might as well err on the side of caution and do what the priest and the holy book say God wants you to do. Such was the thinking for millennia.

But the influence of Christianity is waning. Christians themselves are slowly starting to abandon a lot of the core ideas that drove their ideology for all this time, especially the concept of hell. I've seen lots of Christians totally ignore those passages about Jesus promising everlasting punishment, and just not believe in hell anymore. Their concept of morality is becoming more and more nebulous. For most Christians, it has seemed to dwindle down to one line by Jesus about loving your neighbor. Be nice, basically. Which is the morality most people have anyways, so the Christian doctrine no longer plays a significant impact on most people's everyday moral judgments.

And God himself is becoming more and more nebulous. No longer is he Yahweh the sky god who lives above the firmament upon which the celestial bodies are affixed. He is a vague energy that permeates the cosmos, or maybe he's the entire cosmos itself. He is still intelligent and self-aware in these people's minds, but he is something you can't understand, can't communicate with, can't detect in any way shape or form, and is just there, subtly influencing events in ways we can't directly observe. He's just a mysterious force field that's "out there" and generally making sure there's a certain amount of goodness in the world in some vague sense.

Hopefully these ideas will become more and more nebulous to the point where Christianity is totally irrelevant. I am happy to report that it is well on its way, at least here in the blue states, and apparently over in Europe too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

1: huh? lol further ahead in what sense?

"satan" as far as i have heard merely means "enemy".

although there are spiritual influences out there. they influence thoughts, and there is a being who influences greed, and hatred, and i have heard this being referred to by two names, perhaps they are separate, perhaps one and the same; Belial, and Demurge.

influences like this go against free will, so we are, in a sense, at odds, as most spirits look down upon interfering with free will.

2: why need we remain uncomfertable with ourselves? what purpose does this serve?


i've heard of humility and being humble, but to be uncomfertable with one's self seems arbitrary to me.

---

Being in a state of confusion weakens the ego and makes spiritual experiences closer to your reach. So u see, when I said that shit to u a long time ago and u dissapeared for awhile, I was only trying to plunge you into a state of confusion.

Oneir, I dont believe in the bible ESPECIALLY not the litteral translations lol..I only believe in the Living Word, which is jesus's words being recorded today.

I don't belive in the bible, let alone christianity or any other religion. I only believe in God. Man made religion, not God

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PureEvil760

Being in a state of confusion weakens the ego and makes spiritual experiences closer to your reach. So u see, when I said that shit to u a long time ago and u dissapeared for awhile, I was only trying to plunge you into a state of confusion.

---

how coy...



isnt trickery the tool of the devil? hehehe im just givin ya shit :p

mysterious double post.

I totally agree man. I am a theology major actually, so I do have credibility in this area.

According to the Gospels of Matthew (70-80 AD), Mark (60-70 AD), and Luke (75-80 AD), Jesus is killed because he cleansed the temple. In the Gospel of John, which is the latest (90-100 AD) and most Gnostic canonical gospel, Jesus is killed because he raises Lazarus. The raising was his last "sign" which seemed to piss off the Jews.

Also, there are errors in the gospels themselves and the rest of the Bible as most people are probably aware of. Most fundamental Christian preachers will say that the Bible is the infallible word of God but they are at a loss to explain it when they see it.

The Christianity that you know of today was entirely different than what was in the 1st century AD. There was no Trinity doctrine, or Jesus is God.

Religion in itself is not really a bad thing, but unfortunately it had a tendency to go toward misuse if control is on the agenda. Religion really is a control method. All cultures and religions have experienced this.

From my studies and own interpretation of Scripture, Jesus never intended to have an actual religion. The Kingdom of God is within you. It seems that you have to come to know your own definition of God as Jesus did, because reality in the end is really your own interpretation. Ye are gods!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

how coy...



isnt trickery the tool of the devil? hehehe im just givin ya shit :p

---

That is a way of putting it..but the "devil" is only a tool so that we may see what is false and move beyond it, anyone that does not see god everywhere is under control of the devil, so just about everyone is.

real good stuff here... i was raised a christian and now just consider myself a traveller of the spiritual journey, though i do follow the principle teachings of jesus (essentially love).

amazing how jesus came to set people free from the old testament laws... so after he does that... everyone gathers together the ideas that brought the freedom, set up new laws using them, and enter right back into bondage...

i think organized religion is a bit of a necessary evil. most people cannot handle the "insecurity" brought from the absence of absolutes. they are like "sheep" and just want someone to follow to feel safe, purposeful, etc.

the beauty of life is balance. those stuck in the dogma are kept on their toes by liberal thinkers. tradition which most liberal thinkers use as a springboard is kept alive through the dogma. balance...

really? I thought u were a sceptic hazet..u can ignore this, just a comment.

purevil

no, im not a skeptic at all about spirituality. i have always had interest in spirituality, first in the form of organized religion and now in a personal journey, but never athiest or skeptic or anything.

what made you think that i am a skeptic? just curious...