Argument supporting god...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Here's the rub, it seems as if Christians will happily quote sections of The Bible at folk all day long to back up a belief system. Yet when I ask about the six days to build heaven and earth it becomes an abstract concept, free to be interpreted in any way that suits?
It's either the word of God, or it isn't. iI it is the word of God then the Earth is only six thousand years old, Adam and Eve lived side by side with dinosaurs, Jesus walked on water, and that trumpet really did make those walls fall down that time in Jericho. On the other hand if it is a book that is open to interpretations then we might see how that very same book could be interpreted by all kinds of people, for all kinds of reasons.
It's not such a big leap to take.
I don't know about anyone else, I'm happy to let people be whatever they want to be with regard to religion. It doesn't stop me thinking it's a load of old hooey. I didn't say that I didn't like the people, I'm just saying the belief system is a system based on faith alone. There's nothing rational or reasonable about it. It has no logical basis in fact.
Mr. Spock you do sound angry today !
About the points you make not making sense, I could point out that dinosaurs roamed the earth millions of years ago, and if, as you say, Adam and Eve only lived 6000 years ago, then how did they walk side by side with them ?
I believe the Bible is the Word of God, and I also believe that it is open to interpretation. I don't speak Hebrew, ancient or otherwise, or Aramaic, or Latin, or Greek, and have never studied the Bible in the languages in which it was written. How do you know they meant days as in 24 hours ? You don't. I don't either. And I don't have any problems with the concept of Jesus walking on water or with trumpets bringing down walls.
Yes, I interpret it in my way, the same as you do. Why is it ok for you but not for me ?
You could take any book in the world and read it, and I could read it too, and we would probably not see it in the same way, because we are not the same person.
Argument supporting god...?
I'm not angry at all. Neither am I stating that Adam and Eve walked the Earth with dinosaurs, merely postulating the idea that they must have if we believe The Bible. According to The Bible the world is only six thousand years old, so therefore dinosaurs must have been here at the same time as Adam and Eve if you believe The Bible. Once again, I am displaying no anger here whatsoever. Why do religious people bow up when their belief system is questioned? It's just a discussion, if my atheiesm is to be questioned (not by you personally Mud Dauber, but in general) then surely we can debate the irrationality of a belief in God. You either have faith, or you don't, but The Bible cannot be brought in as evidence. It's just a book to me, I don't accept that evidence. Prove the existence of God to me..go on, I dare you. If there is a God..where is he? Why did he let the Holocaust happen? The Tsunami, the war in Iraq, the WTC, WW1 and WW2... he's not doing much of a job is he? All he's saying is believe in me, don't doubt. Oh, and by the way I'm a jealous God..have no others. Not much evidence as far as I can see.
Argument supporting god...?
no the bible never claims the world is only 6000 years old i do not know what scripture your getting that from. it talks of the earth being a red hot molten planet and him formming the sea and land masses. it also talks of the giant beast wich roamed back then befor he created mankind.
Argument supporting god...?
Well, the creationists say that the world is only six thousand years old.
Are you not a creationist?
Don't quote any scripture at me, just a simple yes or no will do thanks.
Argument supporting god...?
do i belive the bible? YES! that does not mean that you can lob me into some catorgory of creationest or what ever. God's days in wich he created the earth are on his time table. the 7th day he rested is most of mankinds exsistance up to the present time. whats your point?
Argument supporting god...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignatius
I'm not angry at all. Neither am I stating that Adam and Eve walked the Earth with dinosaurs, merely postulating the idea that they must have if we believe The Bible. According to The Bible the world is only six thousand years old, so therefore dinosaurs must have been here at the same time as Adam and Eve if you believe The Bible. Once again, I am displaying no anger here whatsoever. Why do religious people bow up when their belief system is questioned? It's just a discussion, if my atheiesm is to be questioned (not by you personally Mud Dauber, but in general) then surely we can debate the irrationality of a belief in God. You either have faith, or you don't, but The Bible cannot be brought in as evidence. It's just a book to me, I don't accept that evidence. Prove the existence of God to me..go on, I dare you. If there is a God..where is he? Why did he let the Holocaust happen? The Tsunami, the war in Iraq, the WTC, WW1 and WW2... he's not doing much of a job is he? All he's saying is believe in me, don't doubt. Oh, and by the way I'm a jealous God..have no others. Not much evidence as far as I can see.
I'm sorry, but you do sound angry to me, like a dog straining on a leash - bad analogy probably but i'm high on cough syrup ! Maybe a horse chomping at the bit ?
You are asking these questions like you think I have all the answers. I don't have all the answers. I don't pretend to have all the answers. You don't have the answers either. Humans have free will, and many of us choose the wrong path. I myself have done so quite a few times. In my experience it sometimes takes a big knock on the head to get people to wake up. When I make mistakes, or when bad things happen to me, I learn. And because I learn, I can teach others. You may say what could people learn from these wars and natural disasters ? Many things. And yes, people do suffer when bad things happen, but this body is only temporary. I believe that with all my heart. It doesn't take away the suffering of people, but it makes life a lot more bearable for me, at least. :)
Why don't you prove that God doesn't exist, instead of me proving he does ? Go on, I dare you. :D
Argument supporting god...?
how can anyone put there faith in mankind? All mankind has done is waist a bunch of time proveing that we can't do it our self. War, Hate and most of all GREED will allways lead to distruction.
The wage of sin is Death.
Argument supporting god...?
The burden of proof isn't on me Mud Dauber, it's on you.
There is no proof for a God, only faith.
That's the point I'm making, and I'm doing it without showing any anger. Perhaps you think if you keep saying it I'll lose my temper? I don't know how else to put it. I'm maybe being forceful in my opinion, but it's an opinion that I wholeheartedly believe in. All I ask is that my atheism is afforded the same weight as your faith. I'm not missing out, there is beauty all around us, just that I choose to ascribe it to something other than God.
I stand by what I say about The Bible and the various interpretations of it. Each religious group uses it to justify their own position. The same people use it as a justification for killing one another. I see it as an argument between various groups of people as to who has the best imaginary friend.
Just out of interest, I wonder how many wars have been fought in order to promote atheism. We all know the answer to that one..it's zero. As for God sending thse bad things so that we can learn from them... how about he sends us a bit of peace and goodness in his name instead? I think I'd learn a lot more from that. I think we all would.
There is no God, just people. It's up to us how we deal with that fact.
I'm not asking you to believe it though...
Argument supporting god...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignatius
The burden of proof isn't on me Mud Dauber, it's on you.
There is no proof for a God, only faith.
That's the point I'm making, and I'm doing it without showing any anger. Perhaps you think if you keep saying it I'll lose my temper? I don't know how else to put it. I'm maybe being forceful in my opinion, but it's an opinion that I wholeheartedly believe in. All I ask is that my atheism is afforded the same weight as your faith. I'm not missing out, there is beauty all around us, just that I choose to ascribe it to something other than God.
I stand by what I say about The Bible and the various interpretations of it. Each religious group uses it to justify their own position. The same people use it as a justification for killing one another. I see it as an argument between various groups of people as to who has the best imaginary friend.
Just out of interest, I wonder how many wars have been fought in order to promote atheism. We all know the answer to that one..it's zero. As for God sending thse bad things so that we can learn from them... how about he sends us a bit of peace and goodness in his name instead? I think I'd learn a lot more from that. I think we all would.
There is no God, just people. It's up to us how we deal with that fact.
I'm not asking you to believe it though...
I'm afraid I fail to see how the burden of proof lies solely on me, and not you. :confused:
You say you aren't "an angry young man" and that you see beauty all around you, and then you ask why doesn't God send a bit of peace and goodness in his name instead. That tells me that you have never seen or experienced peace or goodness. If that is true, then what a sad life you have had so far :(
In talking about wars fought for atheism, I confess I dont know of any right offhand. But look at people like Stalin, and Hitler, and Mao, and many others like them. They too killed people for thinking differently. And I don't think they did it in the name of religion :)
Argument supporting god...?
I've experienced much beauty in my life, and I see it every day when I look at my daughter for instance. I put that down to biology, and you can put that to the test anytime you have a willing partner. You don't need to stoop to insults Mud Dauber, or maybe you do, it's your choice I guess.
Here's why I think the proof is on you. Suppose you and I were sitting in a room together, and I say to you "hey, look at this" and show you something in my hands. I have nothing there, so you can't see it. Let's say I keep saying I can see it. Is the burden of proof on me to produce it, or on you to believe it's right there even if you can't see it.
Take your time.. :)
