Argument supporting god...?

[JaggedEdge]

I'm rather annoyed with the logic of Catholics. I attended a catholic school from 5th - 12th grade and I remember in religion class when I would debate with my teachers about their teachings (in 10-12 grade) an argument they used. I don't remember the question asked but the teacher replied with this logic.

Teacher - Look at that flower, where did it come from?

Me - Umm a seed.

T - Where did that seed come from?

Me - the dirt.

T - Where did that dirt come from?


Blah, blah, blah. This went on a few steps longer until he concluded that everything has to date back to on central point. In other words everything is caused by something else. Hence there is a god.

I have heard many Catholics use this same logic. I just really pisses me off that they consider this an argument. So everything most come from something else yet once you trace it back to god the pattern suddenly ends. Look if your going to argue that everything must come from something else, you can't convienently end this logic once you reach god as the answer.


Anyway, just something that pissed me off. I was having a little debate with this guy on campus and he used this same argument. The ignorance found within Christianity scares me. I suppose because I was around it for so long and believed in it so strongly and blindly when I was younger.

JaggedEdge Reviewed by JaggedEdge on 10-03-2006. Argument supporting god...? I'm rather annoyed with the logic of Catholics. I attended a catholic school from 5th - 12th grade and I remember in religion class when I would debate with my teachers about their teachings (in 10-12 grade) an argument they used. I don't remember the question asked but the teacher replied with this logic. Teacher - Look at that flower, where did it come from? Me - Umm a seed. T - Where did that seed come from? Me - the dirt. Rating: 5

[Krogith]

so where did the atoms come from and what caused the laws of the universe? where did this order of things we now can call life start from? your beliveing in a law of distruction and nothing would exsist in that state. you know that humans have tryed to put all the right atoms near eachother and have never been able to make life? and that still doesn't explain how the atoms got there to start with.

[Krogith]

there are tons of exsamples of how the bible is god inspired. the bible says the earth is a sphear heald apon nothing. the common teaching of the time ranged from earth being flat to it sitting apon elephants backs.

the bible says the stars number as the sands of the sea. compare thoses two things, stars and the sand of the sea. if you counted the stars on the clearest night you will come to about 3000-5000. thats a mear handful of sand. but in fact today we know that 1/2 of the stars we see is a galaxy full of billions of stars and in fact they do number as the sand of the sea.

these are just 2 exsamples of countless teaching that are right and prophecy that have and WILL come true.

[JaggedEdge]

So by this logic it had to have come from god? Why should this system end once you reach the conclusion of god. Oh yes because he has always existed? How is that anymore logical or any different really than one atom having alway's existed. My point is this, the argument shows nothing. It doesn't explain how their must be a god nor does it explain there isn't one. It's simply flawed logic that you suddenly change at the end to "explain" what you believe."

Again why does this questioning suddenly end when you reach the point of "well god must have created it." If it is possible God has alway's been, isn't it also possible the universe has always been, in one form or another? I understand people want answers, but I don't think our minds are advanced enough to truely grasp this universe and it's laws, much less why they are the way they are. God is simply a convienent answer to these questions.

But again, I have no problem with the belief in God assuming the faith is based on something personal. That is true faith. Being told there is a god all ones life and assuming it is ture isn't faith. It's ignorance. In order to have faith you have to give a personal reason for it.

If you tell me you believe in god because of this that happened to you than great... maybe you are right. I don't know, known of us do. I simply can't stand the people who argue so strongly that there is a god without ever truely thinking about it.

In Catholic school they taught us it was a sin to ever question god, yet you can never truely believe in him unless you question him at one point.

Now I'm not saying this is the kind of person you are, but that is the kind of person that pisses me off.

I don't try and disprove god, I simply want to encourage people to question his existence and come up with a personal answer to the question. Quit simply accepting it as fact because it has been shoved down your throat and been told for so long it is sacralige to question the truth about what your tought. In my opinion organized religion is a form of brainwashing. I can say this because I have lived it.

[Krogith]

i agree we have to ask and think for our self. Blind faith will not save you. you have to know and belive and unless you do then your still looking. I suport you asking why, how, WHAT?!?! this is life we have to find our path and choose it.

[JaggedEdge]

Good than essentially we agree, we just have come to different conclusions. I can respect someone even if they believe in a rock assuming they have truely thought on it and believe it to be true.

[Krogith]

1 corinthians 6:9-10 what! do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit god's kingdom? do not be misled. neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adultors, nor men kept for unnatural purposers, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionbers will inherit God's kingdom.

[FireyBudBurner]

Keep in mind the Bible is just a religous text for one of many sects of religion and it had to be written by a human. As we all know humans have a tendency toward corrupt thought processes, as shown in the very book we worship and the story of Adam and Eve. I think the biggest problem with the Christianity is that many of the teachings are out dated and veiwed as very conservative now days(anti-gay, non-marriage, drugs ect). At the end of the day Darwin had way to many counterpoints against organized religion for many of us to ever believe again. Theres too many people that are too opinionated about religion, just think there are at least 5 major religions in the world that means at the end of the day if there is an outside force that created us 4/5 of us picked the wrong damn side to begin with. Not to mention the far fetched stories like Noahs Ark and a guy in a whale...? Why oh why would u believe that crap.

[FireyBudBurner]

I shouldn't say crap I know it means a lot to people, I would just really love to know why.

[Krogith]

what are your counter points? just that you do not belive the storys? the hebrew scriptures (all your storys you do not belive) are prophecy of Jesus being born and the life he lived. all was writen so people would know that he was God's son here to die for all mankinds sin (wich atom started). the greek scriptures are writen so we know about jesus and his father and how he is going to distroy this system of things. god made adom and eve to live forever and in peace, with FREE WILL. wich they decided to lose by disobaying him.

from just looking at prophecy and what happend then compareing whats going on today to prophecy we can see the will of god is soon to be fullfilled. do not allow your FREE WILL to blind you in chooseing to disobay.

your right most of this world has fallen short of what god wants and it is sad. Woe to the earth