We don't need the government to invest in alternative fuels.

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Originally Posted by Coelho

... so i think we humans are the guests here, and not the owners...

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the essence of the matter is that humans are just another part of the natural order. we are not guests, we are not steward or wardens and we are not a plague. we merely seem to be the only creature here that feels guilty about placing our mark on the earth, something that every other species tries to do as best it can. we have the ability to see what damage we can do, but we do not always have the ability to stop or reverse the process.

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

the essence of the matter is that humans are just another part of the natural order. we are not guests, we are not steward or wardens and we are not a plague. we merely seem to be the only creature here that feels guilty about placing our mark on the earth, something that every other species tries to do as best it can. we have the ability to see what damage we can do, but we do not always have the ability to stop or reverse the process.

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What you are saying is a travesty. Other animals are simply doing what is natural to them, we on the other hand are a race of vile, evil, disgusting daemons who are hell bent on destroying everything beautiful and right in the world.

Did public school teach you nothing... ;)

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Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

Did public school teach you nothing... ;)

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i must a got stoned that day.

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Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

We are creatures, same as all the others. Beavers alter their enviornment... (sorry, it isn't theirs, they weren't first...) yet we should not be allowed to alter it.

So by your logic, the last born child should not be able to alter anything in their household? When the parents die, the first born shall inherit the entire estate?

Your logic is so ridiculous it is laughable.

Now that you mention it, we should surgically alter our brains. Our mere ability to build homes and clear forests is a travesty. It can't be tolerated. It simply isn't fair that we are superior to our animal kin!

You hippies need to make up your mind. Are we a part of the natural world or are we not. If we evolved from monkey's than we are. Does the natural world and the rest of it's inhabitants care if they effect our species negatively? I'm not saying we shouldn't protect some aspects of our environment and the lesser species, but you loose all credibility with these extremist environmental views.

By the way, as a new found liberal, I propose the eradication of all beavers. Their diverting rivers is horrible and most be prevented at all costs!

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laughable logic? i consider it laughable to compare a beaver dam to humans spewing manmade greenhouse gases into the environment at a pace never seen before

the majority of your posts in this thread are laughable...you can chalk to it to me believing the media or in lies made up by whomever but i have looked at the facts and you cant deny the effect were having on the environment is on a scale that this planet has never seen b4 in its history and you have posted nothing to convince me otherwise

you seem to think that politics and policy making or anything really is just one big philosophical argument that can be won simply by manipulating rhetoric and using your apparently elite lawyer skills to win on paper...there are empirical facts you cant just ignore because you want to

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Originally Posted by Stemis516

laughable logic? i consider it laughable to compare a beaver dam to humans spewing manmade greenhouse gases into the environment at a pace never seen before

the majority of your posts in this thread are laughable...you can chalk to it to me believing the media or in lies made up by whomever but i have looked at the facts and you cant deny the effect were having on the environment is on a scale that this planet has never seen b4 in its history and you have posted nothing to convince me otherwise

you seem to think that politics and policy making or anything really is just one big philosophical argument that can be won simply by manipulating rhetoric and using your apparently elite lawyer skills to win on paper...there are empirical facts you cant just ignore because you want to

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First of all, the most abundant green house gas is water vapor, the media, nor the politicians ever mention that however considering it would be difficult to reduce it. However, regardless of that fact, they still promoted cars which released water vapor as opposed to CO2. How exactly does that benefit the environment when water vapor is far worse according to nearly all sources.

The question is if any of these gases cause long term effects on our environment? As of yet they haven't, not in the form of planetary warming anyway.

The fact is, global warming is not being exacerbated by man, if it is occurring at all.

This is a chart from a top meteorologist.

Here is one chart of global temperatures.

Here is one regarding the ice caps getting thinker.

Here is one regarding what I was saying about DDT.
(This site matches mimics the information found in Michael Crichton's State of Fear. If you would like his bibliography to double check the sources, you can buy or borrow his book from someone.)

I can tell your mind won't change easily, so why should I do a lot of work?

For good measure, here is one regarding DDT found in a medical journal.

Another

Here is the EPA press release announcing the ban. (Assuming you automatically believe the government, you will accept this a proof they were right without doing further research.)

Here is one final link where children debunk global warming.(Scroll down to the first video.)

The fact is. They take a few anomalies and try and make a case for global warming despite opposite effects in other parts of the world. They claim the increase in natural disasters is proof when there isn't actually an increase. The number of hurricanes for instance has not risen at all.

One more. Here is a link from the National Hurricane Center.(For the U.S.)
(Do you notice more in recent years? I don't.)

I am trying to include a picture, I'm not sure if it will work though. If not here is the link.

You can see that yes, the number of hurricanes have increased, however they have spiked several times since we first started recording them. Can you honestly this this proves global warming? A lot of articles I come across believe it does.

Is that better, I will try and refrain from "lawyer talk."

By the way, I don't see how a beaver dam is much different. Beavers divert entire rivers. I don't think the comparison is off base.

you gotta be kidding me right?

you should do a bit more research on cliff harris and randy mann before trying to post one of their graphs....turns out they arent who they say they are and they are more motivated by the bible than anything else


lol and that hurricane graph you posted if you were to take the average trend of that line it pretty clearly to me looks upward sloping

and i dont really care what you have to say about ddt...i asked for links concerning your position on global warming and you have yet to provide an adequate one....posting all those erroneous links about ddt to just try and take the argument by sheer force wont work here


this will be my last post here as i can no longer take anything you say seriously because apparently its YOU who will just search the internet and believe anything you read or any graph you see

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Originally Posted by Stemis516

you gotta be kidding me right?

you should do a bit more research on cliff harris and randy mann before trying to post one of their graphs....turns out they arent who they say they are and they are more motivated by the bible than anything else

this will be my last post here as i can no longer take anything you say seriously because apparently its YOU who will just search the internet and believe anything you read or any graph you see

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Actually, I know what I know from far more reliable sources. The problem is finding them is more difficult than typing a few words in google. Seeing as you are set in your ways, there was no point in wasting a lot of my time searching for actual sources, but than again, yours aren't reliable either. So no, I did not get my initial info in that way, however, you are not worth a great deal of time in look for the sources or photocopying the graphs I have in books.

You go off what Al Gore and Michael Moore say.

Do you have actual proof that particular graph is incorrect? More or less it correlates with actual facts.

As I said before, if you want a reliable source, go to a bookstore and pick up "State of Fear." I'm not going to do all the ground work for you. He has many graph in his book as well as a detailed bibliography. Although it is a work of fiction, the science behind it is based on fact and he documents it in his bibliography.

Data @ NASA GISS: GISS Surface Temperature Analysis (GISTEMP)

That is the site he got his info from, although in the bibliography he stats they changed the length in which they show data shortly after the hard cover publication. Meaning, they show a shorter time span in their graphs.

You wonder why it is hard to find accurate information, it's because nearly all sites you would consider reliable are extremely biased and misrepresent information.

If you want another book, read, The Chilling Stars.

I got my info from books, I suggest you read them sometimes. But be warned, not all information is accurate. Siletn Spring is a perfect example of that, yet the liberals still support the ban of DDT.

You still have yet to touch on that subject. (DDT)

Or is that to difficult for you to argue against?

Oh wait, you did touch on it simply by saying it is irrelevant. You are an idiot my friend. The ban on DDT has resulted in oodles of death's and that is unimportant to you.

Again if you would like the orginal books in which I got that information you can read: Hoodwinked and What's the matter with California.

Those links however represents the facts. Ignore them if you like, you are simply proving my point that finding actual sources is pointless when dealing with your kind.

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Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

So by your logic, the last born child should not be able to alter anything in their household?

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The problem is the last born child, that now is a 5 years old children, somehow got a gun and now is bullying and forcing everyone else in the house to do whatever it wants... a home controled by an armed 5-years-old isnt very right, is?

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

the essence of the matter is that humans are just another part of the natural order. we are not guests, we are not steward or wardens and we are not a plague. we merely seem to be the only creature here that feels guilty about placing our mark on the earth, something that every other species tries to do as best it can. we have the ability to see what damage we can do, but we do not always have the ability to stop or reverse the process.

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Yes, i agree, humans are another part of the natural order. The human industrial society isnt. The progress and industrialization gave humans power over the nature, which is what i meant with the gun at the paragraph above.

And having or not the ability to stop the damage is one thing, but closing the eyes for dont see the damage is another one...

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Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

First of all, the most abundant green house gas is water vapor, the media, nor the politicians ever mention that however considering it would be difficult to reduce it. However, regardless of that fact, they still promoted cars which released water vapor as opposed to CO2. How exactly does that benefit the environment when water vapor is far worse according to nearly all sources.

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Well... in this case, the media and the politicians actually has a good reason for dont talk about the water vapor causing global warming... the amount of water vapor in the air is self-regulating, if there is too much of it the air becames more wet and rains, sending the excess of water vapor to the surface of earth condensed as water... yet the same doesnt happen with CO2, which remains in the atmosphere for very long amounts of time and hardly can be "condensed" into a harmless form.

BTW, anything can be proven or disproven with internet informations... but i do have facts. In the southern region of my country, there wasnt never ever any registered hurricane... but, since 2004 there were two of them, what never had happened before... and hurricanes need warm oceans to be created, so the only possible explanation is that somehow the ocean got hotter than it was before... why its so, we dont know for sure, but surely the global warming is the best candidate.

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Originally Posted by Coelho

The problem is the last born child, that now is a 5 years old children, somehow got a gun and now is bullying and forcing everyone else in the house to do whatever it wants... a home controled by an armed 5-years-old isnt very right, is?

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And hunting is like the murdering of a 5 year old...

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Well... in this case, the media and the politicians actually has a good reason for dont talk about the water vapor causing global warming... the amount of water vapor in the air is self-regulating, if there is too much of it the air becames more wet and rains, sending the excess of water vapor to the surface of earth condensed as water... yet the same doesnt happen with CO2, which remains in the atmosphere for very long amounts of time and hardly can be "condensed" into a harmless form.

BTW, anything can be proven or disproven with internet informations... but i do have facts. In the southern region of my country, there wasnt never ever any registered hurricane... but, since 2004 there were two of them, what never had happened before... and hurricanes need warm oceans to be created, so the only possible explanation is that somehow the ocean got hotter than it was before... why its so, we dont know for sure, but surely the global warming is the best candidate.

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See here:

By that same logic, it never snows in Louisiana yet it took 3 days to melt this past winter. That supports global cooling right?

Also, the warmer temps are accounted for in the other post. Don't think the opposition doesn't have facts.

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/...tical-lie.html