Argument supporting god...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
"Better safe than sorry."
I have seen this in two posts on this thread and can't ignore that. I felt the same way when I first began to question god's existence and if he exists if he is truely as "good" as people believe. Anyway, I wasn't sure if what I was being told was right, but at the same time I had been told how I will rot in hell if I so much as think god may be a myth (slightly exagerated).
If you are a taking a "better safe than sorry" stance on the issue of god, than you can't really believe in him. You can know there is a god in your heart, but other than that, there isn't much argument for the existence of god. Believers try and come up with scientific counter points to a "fact" an athiest or agnostic may give. The truth is we have facts, not facts about everything, but scientific evidence about some things. Belief in god has none of that. Now I am not saying belief in god is idiotic, but stop trying to give proof. If you believe in your heart he exists and it is improving your life than wonderful. However anyone that can make the statement "better safe than sorry" isn't a true believer. It appears to me it is just praying to something your not sure about just in case.
your right. people need to prove to them self. if not it's all but blind faith
Argument supporting god...?
You guys keep asking for proof. I already told you that the proof is in me. Just because you think I don't have proof, doesn't mean I don't. It's not that I don't have proof of him, cause I do, it's that you don't believe me. Cause the proof is in the pudding!!!!!
By the way, the bible doesn't say that the earth is 6 thousand years old. It says that the big bang theory happened 6 thousand years ago. For the big bang theory to take place, the substance was already present. How can you prove that the Earth did not evolve six thousand years ago? What machine will tell you that it didn't happen? Can you measure evolution? Do you know when and how much it evolves? Why has it not evolved since his word?
Argument supporting god...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
"Better safe than sorry."
I have seen this in two posts on this thread and can't ignore that. I felt the same way when I first began to question god's existence and if he exists if he is truely as "good" as people believe. Anyway, I wasn't sure if what I was being told was right, but at the same time I had been told how I will rot in hell if I so much as think god may be a myth (slightly exagerated).
If you are a taking a "better safe than sorry" stance on the issue of god, than you can't really believe in him. You can know there is a god in your heart, but other than that, there isn't much argument for the existence of god. Believers try and come up with scientific counter points to a "fact" an athiest or agnostic may give. The truth is we have facts, not facts about everything, but scientific evidence about some things. Belief in god has none of that. Now I am not saying belief in god is idiotic, but stop trying to give proof. If you believe in your heart he exists and it is improving your life than wonderful. However anyone that can make the statement "better safe than sorry" isn't a true believer. It appears to me it is just praying to something your not sure about just in case.
SInce you don't know me, you are taking a giant leap there JE. I don't need to prove my belief in anything, nor would I even try to prove that God exists, I was saying that "better safe than sorry " merely to assuage the nonbelievers. I'm not here to convert anybody. I know what's in my heart and in my head, you don't. Don't tar me with any brush. :)
Now, if someone wants me to try and convert them, Ill be happy to :D
Argument supporting god...?
Damn can't you delete a message on this board or am I just blind?
Argument supporting god...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mud Dauber
SInce you don't know me, you are taking a giant leap there JE. I don't need to prove my belief in anything, nor would I even try to prove that God exists, I was saying that "better safe than sorry " merely to assuage the nonbelievers. I'm not here to convert anybody. I know what's in my heart and in my head, you don't. Don't tar me with any brush. :)
Now, if someone wants me to try and convert them, Ill be happy to :D
I'm guessing you are one of the people who said it. I didn't mean it as an attack on you, the only point I'm trying to make is by saying "better safe than sorry" it appears to an outsider like me that ones faith isn't as strong as anyone elses.
Also by what I wrote, your argument for god is the only real one. You know in your heart, that is great, I'm not going to argue against that. My problem is with those who simply revert everything back to the bible. I guess that has to do with faith as well though just now in a book...
I think you can only delete a post from a tread you started.
Argument supporting god...?
The "better safe than sorry" argument is known as "Pascal's Wager" and is a position postulated by the philosopher Pascal as a way of solving Descarte's dualism. It's not a new position. He says that one ought to believe because you have everything to gain, and nothing to lose by doing so. A rather cynical position in my view, but there you go. Kolgirth there is no point in you quoting the Bible to advance your argument. Unless one is a believer in the first place it's nothing but a story. It's like me producing the Q'uran or the Tibetan Book Of The Dead as evidence that Christianity is wrong. Unless you have faith in that particular text then it means nothing. It means everything to you as a believer, and nothing to me as an atheist. Instead of posting links to various scripture why not join in the debate yourself? I'm not interested in anything the Bible has to say except from a historical viewpoint. Athiesm gives me great strength. We're alone in the world, and you know what? It doesn't scare me one bit, it excites me, and I'm glad to be alive.
Argument supporting god...?
im going to give you one very good reason to believe in god, followed by another one which flakey new age developmentally deprived flakes will counter with some shit about transgressing the laws of the universe.
1. if there is no god, okay. there's no god. what does that mean? absolutley nothing. but if there is a god, and you've chosen to live an unethical life style and denounced your faith... well, isnt that just a bitch. it's a win-win situation really.
2. cause and effect. god is the cause of all causes. but what caused god to exsist? let me ask you this: what causes possobilities to exsist?
NOTHING. because they dont really exsist. theyre just possobilities. there is no cause, because it isnt an effect.
what's the possobility of possobility not being possobility, but instead trasngressing possobility to be exsistence.
when you look at the logic of that, it goes hand in hand with cause and effect.
i'll try and rephrase in simpler terms. if there is a ball floating in mid air, not moving. just still in motion floating. it could still move if something moved it. not that it would, because its surrounded by nothing. but the thought of it happening is fathomable, because of chance in itself. not that it ever would or anything.
there is no cause for possobility, because possobility is already there.
on a personal note, ive found most atheists are atheists because they are deprived in some way or another and cant fathom that god would leave them in the corner. so they start looking to outside answers like, how is it possible for there to be a god and there are countless hypothesis floating around out there about god and his non exsistence. the bottom line is, nothing, i mean NOTHING transgresses cause and effect. thermodynamics, string theory, none of that transgresses an original cause. god is the cause of all cause and effect, to say the least.
Argument supporting god...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by idontgivenames
im going to give you one very good reason to believe in god, followed by another one which flakey new age developmentally deprived flakes will counter with some shit about transgressing the laws of the universe.
1. if there is no god, okay. there's no god. what does that mean? absolutley nothing. but if there is a god, and you've chosen to live an unethical life style and denounced your faith... well, isnt that just a bitch. it's a win-win situation really.
2. cause and effect. god is the cause of all causes. but what caused god to exsist? let me ask you this: what causes possobilities to exsist?
NOTHING. because they dont really exsist. theyre just possobilities. there is no cause, because it isnt an effect.
what's the possobility of possobility not being possobility, but instead trasngressing possobility to be exsistence.
when you look at the logic of that, it goes hand in hand with cause and effect.
i'll try and rephrase in simpler terms. if there is a ball floating in mid air, not moving. just still in motion floating. it could still move if something moved it. not that it would, because its surrounded by nothing. but the thought of it happening is fathomable, because of chance in itself. not that it ever would or anything.
there is no cause for possobility, because possobility is already there.
on a personal note, ive found most atheists are atheists because they are deprived in some way or another and cant fathom that god would leave them in the corner. so they start looking to outside answers like, how is it possible for there to be a god and there are countless hypothesis floating around out there about god and his non exsistence. the bottom line is, nothing, i mean NOTHING transgresses cause and effect. thermodynamics, string theory, none of that transgresses an original cause. god is the cause of all cause and effect, to say the least.
All of this is either basic philosophy or doesn't even translate into a sensical commentary. It sounds like you trying to put as many big words as you can into one sentence to validate a point that you cannot make on your side of the arguement, proof of exsistence or even a decent theory. This is a blob of nothing and the way you take a shot at atheists at the end is a little sad. I mean are you that furasted that people think outside the box and don't worship an outdated book of fictional stories. I am an athiest for one reason, organized religion and almost all religion relies and nothing more than faith, no fact, no substance just someone else telling you, "hey I believe this plus be got a book that says its true, where the hell have you been"
Also the Big Bang theory deffinately does not apply within the last 6000 years, if you have ever read it you know that the big bang theory implies that the world was created millions of years ago by a random sequence of events that rendered a planet capable of holding lifeforms. Along with the right conditions somewhere along the line a tiny random carbon based bacterium was created that could sustain life through photosynthesis. That theory completely negates the chance that the Bible is the real deal.
Argument supporting god...?
Quote:
1. if there is no god, okay. there's no god. what does that mean? absolutley nothing. but if there is a god, and you've chosen to live an unethical life style and denounced your faith... well, isnt that just a bitch. it's a win-win situation really.
Sorry, but that's not a very good reason because it just opens another kettle of worms. So you decide ya might as well not chance it and become a good baptist, then get to the Perily gates and find out they're only letting Church of Christ in. ..or God really was down with the Catholics so you're a heretic because you took up with the Mormons....well, isn't that just a bitch.
Two thousand protestant religions and growing, not even counting the thousands of others, and you can see that playing the win-win odds game suddenly becomes a theological lottery.
The way I figure it there seems to be only two answers to this question. Either there is a God and he could care less if you believe in him or not;(because if he did it's only logical that he would straighten all this mess out himself)... or, there isn't a God and it really doesn't matter.
The balloon moving stuff when right over my head...sorry about that.
Argument supporting god...?
"I'm guessing you are one of the people who said it. I didn't mean it as an attack on you, the only point I'm trying to make is by saying "better safe than sorry" it appears to an outsider like me that ones faith isn't as strong as anyone elses."
That's why I use this in my defense when I'm asked to consider logic in a "Does God Exist" debate. Where is the logic in choosing death over life? If what I'm saying is true, why risk it? You must be VERY confident to go against logic in this case. You guys could keep preaching, cause it's comforting to hear that if I'm wrong, I'll end up with you. I'm glad to hear that you believe everyone is going to a place where there is no pain. Oh really, then why does everyone fear death? I'm gonna use some logic here. I'm gonna put myself in a win win situation and believe in God. And do you know the way there? Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. To each his own. Peace
