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why isn't asking for facts fair, i think giving a reasonable explation is quite appropriate, most people i think would agree.
and the reason i dont 'shut up' about it is because i enjoy debating, and this is a fair debate. It is just a simple challenge, can someone give any reasonable explation for the questions i have.
Thats becauseQuote:
Originally Posted by Vampiero
1. The church is a corrupted system of population control/evil corporate buisness
2. not even a pope can seriously abide by the impossible christian morals
Post your exact questions and I'd be most happy to oblige :) Just be warned that reasonable explainations don't always include facts.
And you weren't debating, you were prodding. If people ignore your post that doesn't mean "your right and you win" like it did when you were 5. It means they simply didn't find anything you had to say worth responding too :)
Eva
As I recall the catholic priests were molesting a bunch of little boys. So I am sure they were also tampering with GOD word while they were at it. Religion doesn't always include GOD. Sometimes it is about making money off of GOD. Just like sometimes the car salesman is whoever he has to be to make that sale, footballer, golfer, Rancher. There are 2 ends to every spectrum, good and bad, positive and negative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoric
The idea of a GOD has been around since the beginning of time, LONG before Jesus, and the bible. GOD should not be doubted just because of all the human corruption.
Anyways, I am agreeing with you, and then ranting, in case it didn't sound like it :)
Eva
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampiero
OKay, so I found the questions.
-Isn't it ironic that when Jesus was alive he never tried to create a NEW religion.....he only wanted Judaism to be open to everyone.
So Jesus loved and accepted everyone. He knew that there was a light of god in them, no matter how small the flame. And?? I don't really get the question.
-How do you explain that according to the bible, the world is only 6,000 thousand years old or so....science claims its more like 4 billion.....is it a conspiracy? wink wink
Yes, and the book of Enoch, and the most recently found writing from Mary Mangdalene (I dont' spell check because I don't want to so expect errors). GOD existing has nothing to do with this, the Roman Catholic Church did it. They began so long ago, they have build such an empire, and lies have been passed on from generation to generation. Such as the importance of the feminine aspect of GOD. Polarity is science. GOD is not male or female, GOD is not human. Therefore there doesn't have to be a sex. While we are talking about books excluded from the bible, we can discuss the lost teachings of Jesus in general.
-I dont quite understand the fact that the bible is made up of the JEWISH RELIGION + A COLLECTION OF SCROLLS (several of which, named the dead sea scrolls, weren't accepted into the final EDITED version because certains events didn't match)
Don't get the question, I haven't the slightest clue about the Jewish religion or ethnicity. I know there are both, and they aren't always the same. And I know they have Barmitzvas.
-Can someone try to explain the fact that the bible indirectly condemns sex (for a reason i am unaware of) and then in the vatican there are beatiful paintings of Popes with their children from MISTRESSES!!!!
Yeah, and their priest has to be celebate. But they can molest little boys. But again, this all goes back to humans, and greed, and control, and business. NONE of that is GOD.
My debate with you is your statment that the exsistance of GOD is a difficult subject, and needs logic. But GOD existing has nothing to do with the corruption of humans. I did read your profile, I now know your age, and your still young and learning.
You know gut instinct, intuition, a "feeling". Forget the fact that you are jewish, and forget every other thing you have ever been told about GOD, Jesus, the bible, or any of that. Ask your soul if god exists, and try not to let your body interrupt what your soul is craving to say to you.
Eva
i trully dont think that god exists......before socrates there were several greek philosophers (whose name i dont remember and are too hard to spell lol) who thought that everything was made out of the four elements, water, wind, fire, earth......today we understand the concept of atoms and such......so isn't GOD just another way of explaining things that happen around us which until now were unexplainable.
For example: i remember reading an article that when people actually pray (not necissarily to god) for a family member who is sick in the hospital that there is a higher chance of success. Is it due to god??? or perhaps because there are connections between us (telepathic or UV or such) that could affect this......a more precise example is when a scientist (forgot his name too, he invented peniscillin) took a sample of bacteria and seperated it into two different parts of the room. he noticed that exactly when one died, the others did too and for the longest time the connection was unknown, everntually they noticed that U.V. rays were connecting the two groups and they were more or less communicating through it.
[QUOTE= i remember reading an article that when people actually pray (not necissarily to god) for a family member who is sick in the hospital that there is a higher chance of success. Is it due to god??? or perhaps because there are connections between us (telepathic or UV or such) that could affect this......a more precise example is when a scientist (forgot his name too, he invented peniscillin) took a sample of bacteria and seperated it into two different parts of the room. he noticed that exactly when one died, the others did too and for the longest time the connection was unknown, everntually they noticed that U.V. rays were connecting the two groups and they were more or less communicating through it.[/QUOTE]
I think your biggest misconception in this whole debate is the fact that you are basing all your info off text book religion. Look at the bible like a book BASED on the true story. Could it all be as simple as a little handbook for life straight from god? There is a lot more to it than that. A Miricle can be many more things than just simply GOD, and praying. We do have a timeline, that we are in charge of, and we also have free will. This free will is where karma comes in. Sometimes things happen that just weren't suppose to happen, and "whoever" intervines. There is a dark side, and a light side. You might be on the light side and not even know it. I think the dark always know they are dark.
We get caught up in being humans, what about our soul? Say there is no GOD, then what is that thing that leaves your body at some point, all ages included, and you are then dead. There is the physical body, and the energy body. Whatever this invisible piece of you is has to go somewhere. And why wouldn't there be a hiarchy to wherever we do go? A hiarchy doesn't have to mean power, it is just a system, those who do this, and those who do that.
I have some questions for you, fair?
Do you believe in life on any other planet than earth? Why?
Do you believe in reincarnation? Why?
Do you believe in "Spirits" or "ghosts"? Why?
Do you believe there is more dimensions than the 3D? please explain....
What do you believe will happen to you when you die?
Each one of us is a piece of GOD, a creation. We have power over our own lives.
Eva
I think you're misrepresenting the pre-socratics there. Before Socrates the elements were largely accepted but the debate was over what was the most fundamental. Thales concluded that everything was water. Heraclitus thought that which is most essential is the logos, "the word", the primordial fire within... The thing to realise is the Pre-socratics weren't trying to say that everything is just water persay, as much as to say the element of the divine in nature resided there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampiero
Today we have our atoms and still don't understand virtually anything about the universe they are scattered into...
I think "god" or "the divine" or "the sacred" is just a way of refering to that which we understand, but could never explain.
I think that is the biggest problem amongst the spiritual "debate". We are just humans. We can never understand, much less explain GOD. We use terms like He/She. That is all a HUMAN thing. Feminine and masculane exist, don't get me wrong, but we all have BOTH inside. As does GOD, but no body.
This Socrates thing is a perfect example of the ego, which your soul doesn't have. Ego is a human thing. I am not picking on Vampiero when I say that either. He is 16, yet he seems to think he has figured it out, and is willing to debate about it. That is fine, and all. But my friend, you only know the tip of the ice burg. Just as you knew PART of the Socrates thing. Not very many humans actually KNOW anything, ever. That is where faith comes in, and any faith is fine as long as it makes you happy, instead of scared like you damed to hell for lusting.
When we return home, where our spirit was before this body, and after this body, then we will remember and KNOW. Until then go ahead and be stead fast in the fact that GOD doesn't exist. I just think it is ignorant to be stead fast in anything these days. Scientists don't even stick with their own ideas. One day this is bad for you the next it cures cancer.
Just remember, every person and every place, and every event had something secret. Something the general public didn't know. These secrets have leaked over the years proving that you just never ever KNOW anything.
(BEWARE! this next paragraph is VERY sptupid)
Did you know, that some people are even saying that Nick and Jessica, of the Newlyweds, were never even a REAL couple? Supposedly Joe Simpson new Jessicas career was crashing, devised a long plan that I won't bore everyone with here. He wanted Nick Carter to be the Nick in Jessicas life, but Carter said no way. Anyways, It came down to one of the 98 degrees band members because they were managed by the same people (At that time). Anyways, supposedly Nick Lachey was picked because his voice sounded the best out of the group with Jesssica.
It is a very long story and VERY detailed. It just goes to show you how far things are taken. Think about how far back, and deep seated the current religious system is. MOST religions today were branched off the roman catholics, and then off of whatever they became. But the Roman Catholics are the ones who destroyed a lot of ancient writings. I would much rather read what an ancient has to say than the congregation that made woman enter the door on the side because they weren't as good as men. And the stake burning, cause someone is a witch. Now the Mayans, they knew some shit!
Eva
-u understand the point u guys are making, and if ur beliefs are that GOD isn't a guy in a grey beard (for a lack of a better stereotype) but just THE SYSTEM that more or less makes up what we see (a Spinozian kinda view) then i can fully understand that. But then i dont understand why people route their lives around it, waste time in church, or do otherthings that arn't going to have an effect, especially with all these fanatics, what im arguing against is mostly the Churchs and their versions of GOD.
-what i meant by the pre-socratics part is different, there are 3 different philosophers, all of their names are like Xanothrop..... and things like that, they start with X's and they believed in the four elements.
-I dont believe in spirits or ghosts or reincarnation, i think that when i die nothing too special will happen, i'm have more of a scientific mindset i must say. I do think there are more dimensions than 3, perhaps time is the fourth as Einstein claimed, but im not sure about the string theory just because i have yet to really look into it yet. And i do believe life on other planets is possible although unlickely.