HID Time factor manipulation
Black lights are the only incandescent light bulbs that are as close to the 730nm (only) spectrum you can get.
Incandescent black lights are actually a form of Standard Outdoor Darkness (SOD). So yes they can be used as a flowering night light.. BUT inc black lights (only) during your 12/12 flowering darkness will cause unwanted stretch for sure. After the stretch phase is over however then black lights (only) can be used for some SPEED, but not very efficiently IMO...Inc black lights have a time factor of aprox .9 and are very fast as far as spectrums go because they give off mostly 730nm.
IMO you need to be careful about adding speed to your normal 12/12 flowering (dark time)..To much speed will cause your lighting schedule to go from a 12/12 to a 10/14 type of flowering in a heartbeat especially if your using HID. So a little goes a long way..It's ok to do it at the end of a normal 12/12 type of flower, maybe for the last two or three weeks. But again it's not the most efficient way of adding speed to the flowering time IMO unless your doing a 24/12 type of flowering. For every hour of black lights (only) used during your normal flowering (dark time) you will get aprox 1.1 hours worth of SID darkness. So using black lights for let's say 5 hours will give you aprox 5.5 hours of SID. And using them for 12 hours will give you aprox 13.3 hours of SID darkness. So ya they work in a normal 12/12 flower if you know what your doing with them... Hope that helps ya...
The funny thing about green inc's is.. They will make your girls come out of flowering unless you use a filter with them. The only spectrums that work for the dark phase of a flowering cycle is 530nm and above. If I'm not mistaken green inc's fall below this range. So they can be used but I think you will need to use a filter with them.. Again not worth it..
Is that the answer you were looking for or no..:thumbsup:
HID Time factor manipulation
Alright, I'm gonna have to change some plans. B&Hphoto shipped me the wrong bulbs. On the other hand the ones the sent are much more expensive than what I ordered. Actually, Desmar B&H's supplier sent German made Osram L58W60 five red and one blue. Very hard to get in the US if you actually try. Us equivalent that I've found are from Wildfire, Inc. - F60T8/B - Lamp, FL T8, Blue, 60W At $80 each. I'm thinking Osram might be the actual manufacturer. I paid for Desisti brand tubes $18 each. Problem is these are 60" long. Therefore, I must modify everything. You must always pay for good fortune. Specs: red 3800Lm 658nm peak blue 1600lm 421nm peak. Not a ton of actual lumens, I know but they should all be usable. I still have 2 4' HO 625nm red. 2 4' HO 420nm blue & 2 4' HO 450nm blue all Kinoflo brand unsure of lumen output but they be bright. All together 810watts Flouropower. Guessing about 40,000 lumens at the abusolute minimum (Assuming the KinoFlowBLues are comparable to the Osram). I think they are much brighter that 1600lm though. Adding all this up I might have been better off with LED's.lol. I got the gearbox, gear motor and bearings to turn the tables which all has to change now.:mad:
HID Time factor manipulation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
Black lights are the only incandescent light bulbs that are as close to the 730nm (only) spectrum you can get.
Incandescent black lights are actually a form of Standard Outdoor Darkness (SOD). So yes they can be used as a flowering night light.. BUT inc black lights (only) during your 12/12 flowering darkness will cause unwanted stretch for sure. After the stretch phase is over however then black lights (only) can be used for some SPEED, but not very efficiently IMO...Inc black lights have a time factor of aprox .9 and are very fast as far as spectrums go because they give off mostly 730nm.
IMO you need to be careful about adding speed to your normal 12/12 flowering (dark time)..To much speed will cause your lighting schedule to go from a 12/12 to a 10/14 type of flowering in a heartbeat especially if your using HID. So a little goes a long way..It's ok to do it at the end of a normal 12/12 type of flower, maybe for the last two or three weeks. But again it's not the most efficient way of adding speed to the flowering time IMO unless your doing a 24/12 type of flowering. For every hour of black lights (only) used during your normal flowering (dark time) you will get aprox 1.1 hours worth of SID darkness. So using black lights for let's say 5 hours will give you aprox 5.5 hours of SID. And using them for 12 hours will give you aprox 13.3 hours of SID darkness. So ya they work in a normal 12/12 flower if you know what your doing with them... Hope that helps ya...
The funny thing about green inc's is.. They will make your girls come out of flowering unless you use a filter with them. The only spectrums that work for the dark phase of a flowering cycle is 530nm and above. If I'm not mistaken green inc's fall below this range. So they can be used but I think you will need to use a filter with them.. Again not worth it..
Is that the answer you were looking for or no..:thumbsup:
yes , thats the info.....and than some...Thank You
HID Time factor manipulation
Sal and Dogs. What kind of Light intensity levels are you running? PAD manual has everything listed in watts per sqmeter based on canopy depth. For my little 14-18" plants I'd assume around 200w per sqmeter going by the manual. Is this based on LED lumens per watt? What about HPS and halogens? Is there another way to calculate this: Chlorophyll Absorbance Spectra CAS, Action Spectra for Photosynthesis ASP, Quantum Yield Curve, PPF, PPFD? Just trying to find the best way to setup my LED wannabe Fluoro tubes. I find the PAD manual a little vague in this area. Total combined input watts versus actual light intensity varies in a huge way even between different LED's. I assume Rauber must use a meter to actually calculate this but doesn't specify the scale that he uses. I know, I know experimentation but like most humans I'm inherently lazy and hate to repeat work that has already been done, especially by someone smarter than myself.:upsidedow
HID Time factor manipulation
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott9116
Sal and Dogs. What kind of Light intensity levels are you running? PAD manual has everything listed in watts per sqmeter based on canopy depth. For my little 14-18" plants I'd assume around 200w per sqmeter going by the manual. Is this based on LED lumens per watt? What about HPS and halogens? Is there another way to calculate this: Chlorophyll Absorbance Spectra CAS, Action Spectra for Photosynthesis ASP, Quantum Yield Curve, PPF, PPFD? Just trying to find the best way to setup my LED wannabe Fluoro tubes. I find the PAD manual a little vague in this area. Total combined input watts versus actual light intensity varies in a huge way even between different LED's. I assume Rauber must use a meter to actually calculate this but doesn't specify the scale that he uses. I know, I know experimentation but like most humans I'm inherently lazy and hate to repeat work that has already been done, especially by someone smarter than myself.:upsidedow
It's vague because the manual tries to eliminate any source of need for calculation, but it's basically for floro's or better output efficiencies based one INPUT WATTAGE at the ballast, or better efficiency systems (HID/LED).
Remember though, that it's a minimum wattage for General Plant Growth.
For a Photophyle, Nitrophyle and highly photodynamic plant like ours, I use 4 times the minimum as general target.
Hope this helps, but yes their is an attempt to evergeneralize on this one, and any feedback suck as yours is used to gauge the demand for further needed detail, so thank you.
Take care, Sal.
HID Time factor manipulation
Thanks, Sal. I tend to go a bit overboard when it comes to light myself. Whenever someone asks "Should I add _____?" I always think the more the merrier.
Any thoughts on red or blue tinted reflectors? A lot of lights CFLs and tubes even my highdollar colored tubes have a green spike in their output. My understanding is that if the said spike is too low in the spectrum could keep PAD from working. A red or blue (depending on the application) anodized or tinted reflector could eat up half of the green spike of the offending bulb and still reflect most of the red or blue light that you want to keep.
Been thinking about this for HID lights. Hence, the title of the thread. During daytime lighting it shouldn't matter any. It could still apply to say, vegging under HPS with a blue reflector.
I'm also considering coating reflectors and maybe walls with titanium dioxide for odor control. It's the stuff they use on "Odor Eating" CFL's. $5 a pound for this stuff from make-up/soap suppliers on the net. It's apparently safe enough to use in hippie soap and that powdered mineral make up.
HID Time factor manipulation
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott9116
Any thoughts on red or blue tinted reflectors? A lot of lights CFLs and tubes even my highdollar colored tubes have a green spike in their output. My understanding is that if the said spike is too low in the spectrum could keep PAD from working. A red or blue (depending on the application) anodized or tinted reflector could eat up half of the green spike of the offending bulb and still reflect most of the red or blue light that you want to keep.
Been thinking about this for HID lights. Hence, the title of the thread. During daytime lighting it shouldn't matter any. It could still apply to say, vegging under HPS with a blue reflector.
I'm also considering coating reflectors and maybe walls with titanium dioxide for odor control. It's the stuff they use on "Odor Eating" CFL's. $5 a pound for this stuff from make-up/soap suppliers on the net. It's apparently safe enough to use in hippie soap and that powdered mineral make up.
I think the TiO2 thing has had bad reviews, but I haven't tried it so I can't really say.
Dichroic filters seems the best but way too pricey for average use.
The Blue Green / Green Blue sensitivity of the Blue "DAY" receptor seems sensitive up from 500nm to about 520nm and we tried all last year to test out higher transmission Yellow rather than lower transmission Red filters and had some real headachs that turned out to be more ballast related than we anticipate (???!!!...), live and learn. So now we're just doing Red filters for standardized units that work.
The best results come from pairing reflector/filter reflection/transmission curves to the light source for maximized reflection/transmission.
You're on the right page and those are excellent ideas on reflectors, but we're sticking with a straight filter set up right now for standardization (the 282 lamp).
Gotta run...
Take care, Sal.
HID Time factor manipulation
Quote:
Originally Posted by salmayo
The Blue Green / Green Blue sensitivity of the Blue "DAY" receptor seems sensitive up from 500nm to about 520nm and we tried all last year to test out higher transmission Yellow rather than lower transmission Red filters and had some real headachs that turned out to be more ballast related than we anticipate (???!!!...), live and learn. So now we're just doing Red filters for standardized units that work.
I recently read about much different ballasts can affect the actual color output of bulbs. The film industry and aquarium geeks have had issue with this. I'm hoping that my cheap Walmart and Sunpark ballasts don't change the specs of the tubes I'm getting too much. I really don't have the cash to lay out on the killer DMX color controllers that studios use.
HID Time factor manipulation
The difference we see in the fluorescent radio frequency ballasts, is that they product more of a High Pressure Mercury discharge spectrum in addition to the usual Low Pressure Mercury discharge spectrum. This is especially true for DC output ballasts such as IS (Insta-Start) ballast, as compared to the usual cheapper RS (Rapid Start) magnetic ballasts.
I'm using IS ballasts on all my fluorescents (T12, T10, T8 and T5HO ), but I also use outter Red Safety filters to eliminate stray 520nm and lower wavelengths (they don't cut out much more than the original Yellow Safety filters we hoped would work and are espectially good when combined with Red and/or Far Red phosphors to begin with).
Take care, Sal.
HID Time factor manipulation
Sal, what transmission rates do the filters your using have? I'm assuming Rosco brand? Them things can really eat up some light! I'm still debating the efficacy between filters and colored reflectors in my head.
I'm almost to the point of building the fixtures for the 5' tubes. Been a hard road getting everything else going. Soon, I'll have pics of the "Mar's Lander" I'm tinkering with.
Judging from Pf/Pfr response graphs. A ton response in near UV 300-400nm range is noted. Would flouro blacklights timed opposite from 730nm lighting increase the switch between Pr/Pfr? I wonder. Seems to me that in a HPS system that has almost nothing in that range could use those in between far red cycles. Certainly 420-460nm blue grows plants better but I cant help but to think that 300-400nm might increase potency and flavor without getting too deep into actual UV-B.
Oh, is there a time factor for fluorescent blacklights?
