Saggy Leaves

DJ - Just looking at the big picture of what you are doing, you start having problems when you start adjusting your nutes and changing your reservoir more frequently. Might I suggest that you go buy a gallon of CNS17 Bloom and use that and only that for a week or two and see what happens. CNS17 is a STAND ALONE nute. It comes in Grow and Bloom. So far, I have only used it on vegging plants, but I am really impressed with how well it is working. I've got a scrog going that I will flip tomorrow and I plan to use CNS17 all the way through flower. (I may supplement with PK13/14 for weeks 5/6 (6/7?), but that's it.)

If you think about this logically, you either have a problem with your bloom nutes, a problem with the way you are mixing the bloom nutes, some kind of toxic contamination in your system, or a mean spirited poltergeist. There aren't a whole lot of other variables.

It seems like you get a problem then adjust things to try to correct and then your problems just seem to multiply and diversify. If you use the CNS17, you don't need to add anything. It has all the micros and macros and basics all in one. I really don't know for sure if CNS17 is a panacea that will grow huge buds all on its own, however, at this point, it would seem more important to first get a trouble-free grow and then worry about maximizing bud size.

PC :smokin:

Pro Bloom is also a stand alone nute....the problem isn't in his not having the nutes available....its something to do with the plants inability to uptake them correctly after a certain stage. The fact that all the plants are showing DIFFERENT problems tells me there is a basic answer somewhere in the uptake of the nutrients and all the plants are reacting differently to it.

Ph is my first thought.....but he checks and double checks it. So the issue has to be in the roots and something to do with basic uptake.....roots change as they get older....they grow. I'm not a soil grower but if Stinky EVER COMES BACK I'd ask her if those plants look rootbound.

They go in a certain order from the corners in. There's a REASON for that. i'm dying to see the system up close and personal which will never happen. But figure this.....that 17 liter container those four plants are in equal about 1 gallon each for their roots. Sound like enough room to you for plants that size? i'm REALLY starting to wonder......

I have thought about the roots as well. They are in 4" net pots, but it seems like eventually they just stop growing. Most of my roots are huge solid masses of thick white roots while others are longer and stringy but still a very dense mass. The roots from each plant don't touch because like I said, it seems like they stop growing after a point. For example, I decided to switch my best plant into the middle spot since it was in a corner, but the roots were so big that they plugged my drain so I had to switch back to the other one that the roots were sticking down maybe a half inch below the net pot. Also, the roots don't appear to be trying to grow up the side of the bin or constricted in any way that I can tell, but I will take a picture of the root zone when the lights come on in a half hour and we can further the brainstorm.

As for switching nutes, I will probably just wait until next grow. Overall, I have 4 pretty nice looking plants (in my opinion), two that aren't *too* terrible, and then two that are pretty much shot, so I think I'm just going to ride out the last two weeks before flush with the nutes I have and just keep them solely on the plain bloom nute. I was actually going to look into changing nutes anyways because of this problem, so I'll have to see if my store carries that special CNS17 stuff. If they DON'T have it, what is another one I should look into?

Botanicare is the only stuff I've ever used so can't say if anything else is good or bad. Hopefully others will chime in with some thoughts.

How much empty space would you say you have left with all the roots in there? I wonder about enough oxygen for the roots. Honestly Deja.....I just dont' know so I'm throwing stuff out.

It also would seem to me that if your roots stop growing....wouldn't your plant stop growing as well?

These pictures look worse than they do in real life, but here they are. The tips are slimy because the bins don't drain 100% and there is about a little less than 1/4" of water in there.

DJ Check out the roots in the photo below. (That photo is from RacerX's grow log here.) Now look at your roots. Your roots just don't look as healthy or as big as they should be. The tips of your roots all appear to be rotted off. I would opine that they just don't like living in the ooze in the bottom of your tray. Why don't you get a deeper tray, purposely leave a few inches of solution in the bottom and put airstones in the solution. Then your roots would have a real nice environment to live in.

As far as one part nutes go - CNS17 is the only one I've researched and the only one I've tried. Other companies make stand-alone nutes, but, when you read how people are using them, it seems they are always adding calmag or some other darn thing. With CNS17, you don't need anything else; it has the Ca and Mg and all those other little goodies already in it.

PC :smokin:

Here's my Master Kush roots.....that plant was about 3 feet tall.

I agree wholeheartedly with PC's PONTIFICATION that the roots are rotting and I'm guessing that is what's causing your problems.

Do you have a photo of the roots of the plants in the corner?

It appears y'all may have found the root of the problem. :lol5:

PC :smokin:

Well here's what I don't get Pc....my roots sit in water...but mine IS oxygenated and changed frequently.

Is that nute solution that has built UP and perhaps burned the roots? And I'd wonder what the ph of that last 1/4 inch of water is....

I've checked the pH and PPM of the bin water and it reads the same as the rest of the res. I am going to see what I can do about getting a deeper bin and putting some air stones in there before I start my next flowering cycle. Thanks for all the help guys and gals!