I did google it. I was just curious to your personal thoughts because I believe this to be a personal issue. Thanks!
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I did google it. I was just curious to your personal thoughts because I believe this to be a personal issue. Thanks!
If you have a particular question about MY beliefs I would be happy to answer you. If that helps. I just think that there is always 2 sides, and a middle to every label, subject, everything. So I try really hard to stay away from labels, unless a particular person has already chosen one themselves. I have also been married very young, for a long time, so I know a LOT about communication, and I TRY really hard not to say always and never. I have learned that I am not always right, sometimes neither one of the parties in a conversation is right. I do have a 99% accuracy rate though ;)
Eva
lol as long as you're humble ;-P just teasing I am married too and have 4 sons the oldest is 12 and the youngest is 2. I have an idea what busy is. lol
Labels are wrong, I agree. I was just trying to understand your view agnostic and Christian don't seem to go together very well. That is if we draw a hardline on the definition of Christian.
Agnostics basically know something is out there, but don't know what is is. Christians come in all types. There are the really great people who love god, and will tell you about it if you want to hear, but don't knock on peoples doors 3 times a week for months. There are the hard core christians who act like they have done something horrible in a past life and are trying to repent on it in this one, and part of that "repent" is to take as many people with them as possible by any means. And then everyone in between including the priest molesting the little boy, yet being a "model" citezen.Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
They can blend very nicely if neither of them are given a box to reside in.
And I am wrong more than 1% when it comes to my hubby. I was joking. But I am very hard to argue with, because I will never tell you that your wrong. And I might agree with you, but.......
Eva
ahhh you just enjoy the discussion sometimes. ;-P It's ok, I do too. I play the devils advocate sometimes just to have have a conversation. However I don't like discussing hard issues with people that just say what they think and don't have an idea why they think what they think. lol Did that make sense? It's like arguing about politics with someone who just sets their opinion based on 30 second soundbites on the news without actually researching the issues for themselves.
I try to be in that first group. I am annoyed with hardcore Bible thumpers because they do more harm than good. I am also annoyed by people that claim to be Christian but really have no idea. (hence my comment in the first paragraph).
I would define a Christian as someone striving to be Christ-like. Oversimplified I know, but I can expand on that thought later.
From where "we've" been to where we are, you are absolutely in the first group you mentioned. You are mature enough to come and say, okay, so what about this? And even if you don't believe, any of it. You are behaving christ-like by being accepting, and non-judgmental.
My argument with FLESH was the existance in god period. That is a sad thing I feel. I don't really care about anything else, as long as it is something that makes you happy, and not scared. I believe in re-incarnation, but I don't care if anyone else does. That isn't something that matters, we will all find out the truth by experience when that time comes.
God's existance is worth defending, I am sure you agree :)
Eva
I am married to a confirmed Catholic, from a whole family of catholics. And he believes in reincarnation. He had that belief before me, which was a long time ago. He just didn't have a name for it :)
I have seen far too much evidence in my own life for me to think that there is no God.
BTW, thanks for the compliment.
Jay
Someone (I think it was flesh but maybe not) even suggested that Jesus didn't even exist. I had so much material to wade through, but I think that claim was missed.
Saying that Jesus didn't exist truley prove how ignorant, as a person the author of that post is. Jesus existed just like his mother mary, Buddah, Mahatma Gandi, The list goes on and on. Jesus get's picked on because he is the celebrity of the many "masters" we have had along the way. All I mean by masters is that they had mastered the illusion duality. They knew that God was accessable to everyone, but through him was a short cut basically. We all have the power to connect with god directly. But people like Jesus were like a doorway to god. You could feel god in there energy field even if you weren't sensitive to it.
Anyway, just wanted to also defend jesus's existance. Scientist doen't even refute that one, they just think he was crazy.
Eva
There's too much historical evidence to prove he walked the earth. Even Pilate, the Roman that oversaw His trial, has writings about the case.
I have also heard people say Jesus was just a great teacher. How can they claim Him to be a great teacher and then turn around and say what he taught was false? I don't understand that argument.
I do believe the Bible in its entirety. However, I do reserach the original text so I know what was originally intended. I don't believe I can pick and choose what I want to believe in this. It's all or nothing for me.
And I respect your belief. And thank you for being able to respect mine. I just wish that the churches hadn't burnt up all the original stuff. I also really with I could read the whole books from the bible, again, originals that are gone forever. I can give you a link to the lost teachings of jesus, but I am doubting you would accept how this information was obtained. Which is fine. But if you are interested I would be happy to let you know. There are about 4 books in a set called the lost teachings of Jesus.
Eva
I'm familiar with them. but thanks!
No problem. My hubby found them very interesting because they really hash out the differences in bible versions. Plus of course the authors "information".
Eva
Like what? I haven't heard of any real evidence for the existence of any god. It's not possible because itâ??s not testable.Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
Try testing prayer. No matter the outcome, it will be "answered" or it was "part of gods plan" and was meant to happen.
What makes you so sure your ideas are correct? What was wrong with the old Greek gods, Hinduism, Islam? What makes them wrong and yours right? I see no difference between any of them. Their all based on untestable and unobservable ideas. How do you know if it's reality if it's based on faith? It's much better to ask questions and understand than it is to be ignorant.
The fact I'm alive when I shouldn't be..many times over.
Watching birds fly South and how they shift positions for better aerodynamics and to adjust when lead birds get tired.
I don't believe in coincidence or chance and I don't believe instincts can be explained by evolution.
Well there is a difference between belief and reality, isn't there? I don't mean to attack you, but those are personal reasons and they don't prove very much to other people.Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
OK reality is monkeys are still here. Wouldn't they be gone if we evolved from them?
This seems like the big question. What is the difference between belief and reality? You mentioned that if it's not testable it's not possible. Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStarer420
Do you realise how many scientific, psychological, and philosophical concepts we take on "faith" everyday?
What do you believe to be reality? And what's really just belief?
First, we didn't evolve from monkeys, but we do share a common ansestor with them. They "branched off" millions of years ago. Our "side" then branched off into apes. Which we are. And the other side branched off into Monkeys. It dosen't just have to be 2 branches, some event might have happened to isolate a bunch of diffrent groups but many new species that arise will probally go extint if they cannot adapt to their enviorment.Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
I bet you've heard of the Phylogenetic tree It's the same idea. Thats why our DNA is somthing like 98% simular to that of Chimps, and thats why we are much closer to other Apes then we are to Monkeys.
[QUOTE=Polymirize] This seems like the big question. What is the difference between belief and reality? /QUOTE]
It's not that I know what reality is, it's just that science has the best explanations for what reality might be. Medicine is based on science not on religion, and what will work better penicillin or prayer if you have an infection? How many people would not be alive today if we werenâ??t able to build pacemakers, disinfectants, Anesthesia, Defibrillators, x-ray machines, I.V.'s, ect,.? We would still be riding on horseback if it werenâ??t for innovations in physics that let us develop engines. Science will never be 100% accurate, ever, but itâ??s our best tool to understand the world around us. Pseudoscienceâ??s and religion are nothing more then placebo's.
"All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike-and yet it is the most presious thing we have."-Albert Einstein
I didn't mean it in that context, just that it's impossable to prove God exists. Atleast I don't see how you could either directly observe him or design an experiment to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
Reality is the Universe in which we live; beliefs are how we think is. The problem is, some things will happen even if we don't believe in them or even acknowledge their existence. So I could be wrong. But I'd still rather trust science which is "belived" to work over somthing which seems like it's never worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
you want proof, Moon? learn how to project your consciousness to the astral plane. then ask your spirit guide(s) to visit god. chances are they will act in an odd manner and deny you such a right, and tell you that you arent ready.
chances are, no human alive today is ready to meet god face to face, let alone see the existance of god.
that which is god is so far beyond anything we've ever experianced, it is very possible that we will never experiance god ourselves, or at least live to tell about it.
Oh really? Your einstien quote says otherwise. It is primitive and childlike, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStarer420
What about homeopathy, Reiki, herbs? Hello, you act like all "religious" people use is prayer. Which, on the flip side is manifestation. Just because you haven't seen evidence of something doesn't mean other people haven't. Is your ego really that big?Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStarer420
Actually, I find my self my best tool for reseach. And science is mearly one catagory of the many ways to understand the world around us.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStarer420
There is a vibrational level to everything in existance, energy. Wouldn't it make sense for GOD to be energy also? Energy isn't something you can always see. Doesn't mean it isn't there ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStarer420
Glad your humble.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStarer420
Eva
HA HA HA, I love it don't you! The whole, we evolved from apes bit. We got AIDS from them to, did you hear?Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
Yeah, I believe in evolution, but not to that extent. I think it is more about adaption, than evalution.
Eva
I have a link for anyone willing to see the history of man's relationship with GOD. This is undeniably the most popular theory out there, and there was a day when GOD was not a theory, but fact. For the sake of argument I will call it a theory.
http://www.sacredsites.com/pages/explore.html
Science has checked these places out, you know. Vibrational levels are high, "miracles" are experienced.
Think what you want, but I say that GOD is provable, to anyone willing to go the distance in a debate. But as shown in this topic, it must be done person by person. And all narrow minded people need not apply, because it's a contradiction in itself to discuss something if your not open to changing your mind on it. That is just a power struggle, and I am above that. I don't wish to win. I just wish for people to read the whole conversation before making a huge ass out of themselves.
Eva
when your praying to god just who do you think your talking to?
I know I already quoted this paragraph but DAMN, I missed something huge. Were do you think penicillin came from? And there are natural disinfectants, tea tree oil, clove oil......Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStarer420
Science makes meth, GOD made marijuana ;)
I am not discounting the things science have done for us as a race. But you are talking about apples and oranges here. You are putting a box around the label religion for one thing. And your acting like it's science OR "religion". Your talking about inventions, and we are talking about an existance outside of what everybody can SEE.
Eva
Eva, good point.
Jay
Yeah, where do all these big talkers disappear to? There have been a few who have gracfully bowed out, but there have been some mouthy ones who just disapear......
I think I found one of them ;) Steven Segal joined today, and already has 50 posts, all about how steven Segal is GOD.
Maybe it is the militant athiest, who seemed to have a thing for Magiever. Just a hunch......
Eva
It's all chemicals... so it doesn't really matter. Apples and Oranges? No, it's fruit. That's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by siSTARindigo
And that IS evolution, Methhead.Quote:
Originally Posted by siSTARindigo
Science is also the understanding of how the world works. Science can explain how penicillin works and how all the natural disinfectants work. It's not just about the creation of new technologies, its an understanding of how things work together. Using that knowlage you can learn what is possible and what is impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by siSTARindigo
I do admit science is a double edged sword when it comes to developing new technologies. it's given us the worst things ever created Hydrogen/atomic bombs. But it also teaches us why we should never use them.
Actually penicillin came from mold, which was here long before chemicals, or people. And adaptation is not evolution. They are both in the dictionary, therefore they both have different definitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by CocaCola
Methhead, I am in there telling people to stay away fromt the shit, and you bring it in here on another board. You are an immature, 17, and I am above your nasty attitude.
Peace out!:dance:
I didn't know you had used before I posted that, and I intended to make light of the subject with that. Not as an insult... not that I care as the making light was only for me. But I apolgize for calling you a methhead, regardless, because it was rude. I'm sorry.
And Evolution is adaptation... stop reading the dictionary, cause if you take a peek you might realize that all those definitions are bullshit. You make call it what you will... but regardless, Evolution IS adaptation. Go read on how evolution works but don't take things to literally and you'll be fine. Also, mold isn't chemical? Then what is it? Energy?
there's a diference between evolution and adaptation
I don't see how they are. Evolution describes the long term effects of small changes to DNA and what would happen if two groups of the same species were isolated from each other for a limited amount of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
This is becoming redundant; I'm done responding unless you can disprove evolution or at least come up with something new to add to the discussion.
If you could disprove evolution THAT would earn you a Nobel Prize. The Scientific community rewards its heretics if they can prove their ideas.
Your right, it was rude. And it hurt my feelings because I haven't touched the shit for almost 3 years, and have done it a handfull of times. And you come into the spiritual board, where I am in my life now, and spreed rumors. As I recall, a methhead does meth, which I don't do. I am 24 years old for your information, my partying years weren't that long ago. And again, I am 24, and have been married for 4 years. I went through that starge where I wanted to still be young. Then I grew up, got good jobs where I learned a lot about what it really is. Maybe that is why I feel so strongly about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CocaCola
I want nothing to do with you, or anything you have to say. You are blocked as of now. You can't come up with a point, you just go around and try to discredit people with rumors.
You said it yourself in the forum this should have stayed in. You don't know me, and you are being WAY judgemental when I opened up to tell you something to relate to you. And you use it against me, again, VERY juvenile (teenagish even). I am done with you.
Who cares what the definition is? We as humans learn to adapt to our land and cope just like fishes developed lungs to breathe on land. To cope with where they were being forced to move to... evolution kicked in and slowly had them develop a lung that could work on land. But it's still them adapting to the change. Even the predators adapted so that they could once again prey on the fishies. It's all the same thing... you're just taking one thing and calling it something else.
Evolution says apes can and will, with enough time become humans. That is an entire species change. Adaption says that humans were cavemen, but learned things, through trial and error, and adapted. Like black people adapted to the sun in africa by their skin darkening, protecting them more. Or penguins, who have stubbornly stayed after the ice age.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStarer420
Eva
I'm real hurt. I couldn't come up with something you could understand... I guess it's because you're too much smarter then my teenage self. I feel strongly as well... about people like you imposing on people and telling them what they should do, when you can't even figure out what YOU should do. Just because what I said flew over your fucking head, doesn't mean I didn't have a point. All you can focus on is the negative... did I break a few bones? Oh well, I apologized and explained myself. I'm not looking to relate to you, so bye.Quote:
Originally Posted by siSTARindigo
Yes, by definition... but aren't people evolving by adapting to their constantly changing life. I mean, if one person comes across this vital information that changes the world as we know it, isn't that evolving to the next level? I mean, when scientists came up with the evolutionary theory, that in itself started the next step in evolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by siSTARindigo