cannabis and out-of-body experiences
THE enlightenment doesn't really exist. If it did, then you wouldn't be able to experience it because it would be something so remarkable that you would constantly try to live up to these false expections. This is the illusion that so many people have fallen into. That state is very achievable in this lifetime and you had a true glimpse of it. The fact that you even glimpsed it is proof enough that it is not something remarkable and something that has to be "achieved". If you think this, you will always be chasing an imaginary dream that doesn't really exist. Remember, it is in the NOW that "enlightenment" exist. I know, I'm pluggging Tolle's words here, but I can't stress how much truth there is in those words.
You stated that you cannot comprehend what you experienced, because the mind cannot comprehend "enlightenment" or the NOW. And you're absolutely right. It is the most simple and obvious thing in the world, and yet we cannot comprehend it because we are too stuck in our minds. We identify with these things called thoughts and we say, "This is real. This is how I feel, so it must be real." "Enlightenment" IS pure awareness, without thoughts. It is NOT something mystical, something to be "obtained". When people are working on themselves they may be trying to achieve it, but they are ultimately fooling themselves when they think they are "achieving" something. It is not about achieving. It is about realizing that what they "wanted" they already had. So when you meditate, that's great. Because ultimately, you need to work on yourself, not in order to "acheive" anything. But in order to practice stilling the mind so that your natural state can come out. In reality, you never achieved anything, but you actually "downgraded" back to your natural state. Achieving something implies ego and that is exactly what you want to avoid.
Ramana Marashi said it like this. "Enlightenment is an unlearning".
cannabis and out-of-body experiences
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
THE enlightenment doesn't really exist. If it did, then you wouldn't be able to experience it because it would be something so remarkable that you would constantly try to live up to these false expections. This is the illusion that so many people have fallen into. That state is very achievable in this lifetime and you had a true glimpse of it. The fact that you even glimpsed it is proof enough that it is not something remarkable and something that has to be "achieved". If you think this, you will always be chasing an imaginary dream that doesn't really exist.
Man... while i understand it, i cant help of being a bit disappointed... since long ago i wished to be enlightened, thinking it would be a great thing, like angels coming from the sky (lol :D), something "mystic" indeed... and now i learn that i was already enlightened... not that it diminishes the experience itself, as it keeps being uncomprehensible and mind staggering, but i somehow feel like if i had lost a goal i was chasing since long. And it brings the question: and now? What to do from now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
When people are working on themselves they may be trying to achieve it, but they are ultimately fooling themselves when they think they are "achieving" something. It is not about achieving. It is about realizing that what they "wanted" they already had.
Thats SO true... i remember when i was in this state i would feel completly peaceful, complete, indeed like if i had everything i would wish... i can say in that moments i was as happy and contented as one can be, for just being alive and breathing... it seemed like if breathing was the only thing that really mattered, and i could breath as much as i wished... so in that moments i was really satisfied, and it was amazing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
So when you meditate, that's great. Because ultimately, you need to work on yourself, not in order to "acheive" anything. But in order to practice stilling the mind so that your natural state can come out. In reality, you never achieved anything, but you actually "downgraded" back to your natural state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
Ramana Marashi said it like this. "Enlightenment is an unlearning".
Indeed... during this states i would also feel like if i had remembered something forgotten LONG ago, something buried very very deep, something very primitive,very basic... but i cant say or even figure out what it was...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
Achieving something implies ego and that is exactly what you want to avoid.
The ego... the damned ego... even if its a very enjoyable experience, i (my ego maybe?) always am afraid to enter this states... even if just after ive been there i always say to myself "i SHOULD do it more often", there is something that stops me... i always find an excuse to only enjoy the high of weed, without using the unnameable and reaching this "enlightened" state... is my ego fearing its death? Is it who is trying to avoid me reaching the enlightenment? I would like to know, and how to ovecome it...
cannabis and out-of-body experiences
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelho
And it brings the question: and now? What to do from now?
Whatever it is you do, do that. If you feel you need to do more, then do that. The point is, whatever you are doing, you are there.
Quote:
Thats SO true... i remember when i was in this state i would feel completely peaceful, complete, indeed like if i had everything i would wish... i can say in that moments i was as happy and contented as one can be, for just being alive and breathing... it seemed like if breathing was the only thing that really mattered, and i could breath as much as i wished... so in that moments i was really satisfied, and it was amazing...
Yes, that's it! It takes an incredible about of focus to stay in that state continuously. For most people, it is much too hard to even glimpse. For myself, it is incredibly difficult. I'd say I can enter that state once or twice a day, but it never last more then a half-hour, at least not yet. Some days are better then others and some days I can be in that state for most of the day, but it is still very difficult and those days are rare. Especially if you haven't dealt with past pain that keeps coming up.
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The ego... the damned ego... even if its a very enjoyable experience, i (my ego maybe?) always am afraid to enter this states... even if just after ive been there i always say to myself "i SHOULD do it more often", there is something that stops me... i always find an excuse to only enjoy the high of weed, without using the unnameable and reaching this "enlightened" state... is my ego fearing its death? Is it who is trying to avoid me reaching the enlightenment? I would like to know, and how to overcome it...
That is most definitely your ego. ANY fear is ego and any sort of pain is also your ego. I, too, was afraid of the state. That I'd go crazy if I entered it more often and sometimes I felt I was crazy, but ultimately this is illusion and it is not real. There is nothing to fear there, as that is your natural state. It's like being afraid of the naked body behind the clothes you wear. That is your natural state, so it is useless to fear it. I'm not advocating running around naked here, but the point is that your natural state is nothing to be afraid of, to run away from. You should embrace it.
In order to overcome the ego, you must watch it. Learn from it. You can only overcome it once you know what it is. I myself need to learn more from it, so I am where you are. Past pain keeps coming up and hindering my progress and it is sometimes very difficult to focus on the present moment.
Oh, and a sidenote, astral projection won't get you there any quicker. Think of that as a result of spiritual development, but it will not get you there any quicker. In fact, if you don't know what you are doing in the astral realm you can attract some pretty nasty spirits who would love nothing more then to see you suffer. I don't mean to scare you, but to warn you. I would stay away from that stuff until you've progressed spiritually.
cannabis and out-of-body experiences
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
Whatever it is you do, do that. If you feel you need to do more, then do that. The point is, whatever you are doing, you are there.
Yes... there is even a Zen (or something like) quote, that says:
"If youre hungry, do eat, if youre sleepy, do sleep."
It seems obvious, but in fact its very hard to do this... we always do what we dont want or need and do not what we want or need...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
Yes, that's it! It takes an incredible about of focus to stay in that state continuously. For most people, it is much too hard to even glimpse. For myself, it is incredibly difficult. I'd say I can enter that state once or twice a day, but it never last more then a half-hour, at least not yet. Some days are better then others and some days I can be in that state for most of the day, but it is still very difficult and those days are rare. Especially if you haven't dealt with past pain that keeps coming up.
HALF-HOUR!!! Damn, man... i only can stay in that state for 5-10 minutes at most, and only while the unmentionable's effect lasts... without it, only meditating with help of weed, i only got some glimpses which lasted only seconds... and they were very weaker, and not enough for making a lasting impression... i could only recognize that i was in the same "enlightened" state i knew, but it was way too fleeting... so i surely admire greatly that monks that sit and meditate for long hours, even days, until reach this state, only by use of the mind, without even some weed to help them... THAT is determination and persistence... only we, who know how hard it is, can recognize and admire properly this feats of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
That is most definitely your ego. ANY fear is ego and any sort of pain is also your ego. I, too, was afraid of the state. That I'd go crazy if I entered it more often and sometimes I felt I was crazy, but ultimately this is illusion and it is not real. There is nothing to fear there, as that is your natural state. It's like being afraid of the naked body behind the clothes you wear. That is your natural state, so it is useless to fear it. I'm not advocating running around naked here, but the point is that your natural state is nothing to be afraid of, to run away from. You should embrace it.
In order to overcome the ego, you must watch it. Learn from it. You can only overcome it once you know what it is. I myself need to learn more from it, so I am where you are. Past pain keeps coming up and hindering my progress and it is sometimes very difficult to focus on the present moment.
And not only pain hinders us from reaching the enlightenment... for me sometimes its fear, or desires, or any tricks the ego does to get my attention for it and distract me from my goal... and, unfortunately, most time the ego succeed... as it knows us very well (in fact, better than anyone else), as it was grown up and feeded and taken care by us during all its life... damn it!
Sometimes i think the "original sin", when supposedly Adam and Eve learned the good and the evil is a parable for the introduction of the ego in the human minds. Because good and evil are classifications of acts (or thoughts or whatever) of someone. Someone does good or bad things. But only if someone has the notion of self, of "me", it can classify its own acts as being good or evil. "I" did something, and this something is good or bad. But if there were not "I", this something would just happened, no one would be able to say "I" did it, because there would not be an "I" to be said that it did something.
The Bible continues, and says that only after eating it they realized they were naked. But if there were not an ego, they wouldnt be able to separate their bodies from the outside world. For them, it would be the same thing, or at least, parts of the same thing, and not one "me, here" and "everything else, there". And so their nakedness would be only more one part of the nature, and not something important, as it become when they know that their "mes" were naked.
And after having an ego they would inavoidably trasmit it for their children, as it would be impossible for a person be raised by parents having an ego without also developing a ego. It would explain the fact that "all men were made sinners by Adam".
Of course i can be quite wrong. I dont know. But for me it makes all the sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
Oh, and a sidenote, astral projection won't get you there any quicker. Think of that as a result of spiritual development, but it will not get you there any quicker. In fact, if you don't know what you are doing in the astral realm you can attract some pretty nasty spirits who would love nothing more then to see you suffer. I don't mean to scare you, but to warn you. I would stay away from that stuff until you've progressed spiritually.
Well... while i stopped to deliberately try to astral project, i still do it during my dreams. If i were to use the correct naming, i would have to call what i do of etheric projection, instead astral projection, cause i never entered (consciously) the astral plane, but only remained in the physical (or etherical) plane, the one which more resembles the "real" (physical) world. And fortunately i dont remember being bothered by any spirits, entities or whatever... anyway, i never meant to do it as means of reaching enlightenment, but mainly for curiosity, for the desire of see the hidden things beyond the physical plane we see and live on... but until today i didnt succeed in being anywhere "beyond" the physical plane, or rather, i dont remember of anything about it, even if probably i (as all of us) already have been "there" a lot.
cannabis and out-of-body experiences
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelho
HALF-HOUR!!! Damn, man... i only can stay in that state for 5-10 minutes at most, and only while the unmentionable's effect lasts... without it, only meditating with help of weed, i only got some glimpses which lasted only seconds... and they were very weaker, and not enough for making a lasting impression... i could only recognize that i was in the same "enlightened" state i knew, but it was way too fleeting...
It is still incredibly difficult to stay in that state for more then a half-hour. And even that is truly rare for me. It happened more often when I smoked more, but I don't really like smoking too much as I find it doesn't help my spiritual development. It's a great tool and helped to jump start my "unlearning", but too much of anything is a hindrance in my book. A great way to stay in that state for longer periods is to accept where you are at the present moment. That means accept your present circumstances wherever you may be and whatever you may be feeling. If you long for enlightenment, then accept that, don't resist it saying in your mind, "I shouldn't be feeling this way". Accept that you feel that way and surrender to it. I also find noticing the space between things a great way to stay in that state. What I mean is, look at anything, a book, a statue, a tree, a sound even. Notice that whatever it is came from nothing and will return to nothing eventually. Sound is a better example because it comes into existence from nothing and exist for a moment in nothing and returns to nothing almost as fast as it came into existence. I find it helpful to notice this and to try and feel that space as best as possible. That means not thinking about it, but letting the space be and whatever is in that space be as well.
Quote:
so i surely admire greatly that monks that sit and meditate for long hours, even days, until reach this state, only by use of the mind, without even some weed to help them... THAT is determination and persistence... only we, who know how hard it is, can recognize and admire properly this feats of them.
True, I agree. It is truly amazing, but they are really no different then you are deep down.
Quote:
The Bible continues, and says that only after eating it they realized they were naked. But if there were not an ego, they wouldnt be able to separate their bodies from the outside world. For them, it would be the same thing, or at least, parts of the same thing, and not one "me, here" and "everything else, there". And so their nakedness would be only more one part of the nature, and not something important, as it become when they know that their "mes" were naked.
And after having an ego they would inavoidably trasmit it for their children, as it would be impossible for a person be raised by parents having an ego without also developing a ego. It would explain the fact that "all men were made sinners by Adam".
Of course i can be quite wrong. I dont know. But for me it makes all the sense.
I agree as well. It makes sense.
Quote:
Well... while i stopped to deliberately try to astral project, i still do it during my dreams. If i were to use the correct naming, i would have to call what i do of etheric projection, instead astral projection, cause i never entered (consciously) the astral plane, but only remained in the physical (or etherical) plane, the one which more resembles the "real" (physical) world. And fortunately i dont remember being bothered by any spirits, entities or whatever... anyway, i never meant to do it as means of reaching enlightenment, but mainly for curiosity, for the desire of see the hidden things beyond the physical plane we see and live on... but until today i didnt succeed in being anywhere "beyond" the physical plane, or rather, i dont remember of anything about it, even if probably i (as all of us) already have been "there" a lot.
Yeah, I've heard that when we dream we enter the astral realm. What's beyond the etherical plane? I know there are other planes, but I'm not sure what they are called.
cannabis and out-of-body experiences
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
It is still incredibly difficult to stay in that state for more then a half-hour. And even that is truly rare for me. It happened more often when I smoked more, but I don't really like smoking too much as I find it doesn't help my spiritual development. It's a great tool and helped to jump start my "unlearning", but too much of anything is a hindrance in my book. A great way to stay in that state for longer periods is to accept where you are at the present moment. That means accept your present circumstances wherever you may be and whatever you may be feeling. If you long for enlightenment, then accept that, don't resist it saying in your mind, "I shouldn't be feeling this way". Accept that you feel that way and surrender to it. I also find noticing the space between things a great way to stay in that state. What I mean is, look at anything, a book, a statue, a tree, a sound even. Notice that whatever it is came from nothing and will return to nothing eventually. Sound is a better example because it comes into existence from nothing and exist for a moment in nothing and returns to nothing almost as fast as it came into existence. I find it helpful to notice this and to try and feel that space as best as possible. That means not thinking about it, but letting the space be and whatever is in that space be as well.
Well... after some thought, i noticed my greatest problem. My intent is weak. I dont really care about being enlightened or not. Its VERY hard for me to admit it even for myself, but unfortunately its the crude truth... And so im easily distracted, cause i dont put enough effort on in. Thats the same thing that happened when i tried to astral project. I never suceeded doing it consciously because i didnt really cared about it, it was only a "passtime", or something like this, and so i never put the necessary effort to actually succeed in it.
I only reach this enlightened states when im under the effect of the unmentionable, that throws my consciousness at this state without any effort of my part... but when i try to do it myself, my ego always find an way to distract me, and as my intent is weak, i end by accepting the egos interference, instead to keep trying.
I hope someday my intent grew stronger enough to overcome this problems, though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
Yeah, I've heard that when we dream we enter the astral realm. What's beyond the etherical plane? I know there are other planes, but I'm not sure what they are called.
Well... the usual occult description says that there is the physical plane, the etheric plane (which is the "higher" part of the physical plane, and which is responsible by the physical sensations), the astral plane (where there are the emotions, desires and feelings), the mental plane (where there are the thoughts), the buddhic plane (where there are the spiritual insight), and other higher planes unacessible to normal humans in their usual levels of evolution.
A very good description of this planes can be read here.
(BTW, this entire book is VERY interesting and a MUST read for anyone who have interest in this subjects).
cannabis and out-of-body experiences
Well, find your intent! Lol, we need more enlightened souls in this world.
cannabis and out-of-body experiences
So I smoked medicinal marijuana from Cali for the first time yesterday.
(I live in New York by the way)
& I could honestly say I have never experienced anything like this in my life.
I got high after just 1 hit, & I was high within 10 seconds.
After my hit (which was a really strong hit), I began to sweat like crazy.
After about 5-10 minutes, I was beyond fucked up.
I began to hear my heart beating, & it was beating SO loudly.
We decided to go to the mall, which at the time seemed like a great idea.
I could barely walk. I was just so numb.
But the best part of all this was that about 20 minutes after initially smoking, I began to feel like I was having this like almost out of body experience.
I felt like a cartoon character or like I was in a video game.
When I would pick up my arm to move hair out of my face, my reaction was so delayed that I didn't even realize that I was picking up my arm.
I felt like I was sort of in a dream, looking in through my eyes.
It's so hard to explain.
But I knew that I was high, & I knew that this wasn't a regular high, & that I was having an experience that I might never have again.
Dodging people in the mall became almost like a game to me.
Just wanted to share this with you guys.
Any thoughts?
cannabis and out-of-body experiences
THOUGHTS?!? ;D HELL YEAH! I'm thinkin "where can i get me somma that???"
Never been that high before, but the best high i ever had was the first high (and a few tiems that were just like it), where it felt like oxygen was an ocean and i was at the bottom of it, the sheer volume of pressure was simply uncanny.
It is the nicest feeling i have ever experienced.
cannabis and out-of-body experiences
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of the iris
Well, find your intent! Lol, we need more enlightened souls in this world.
Life is good.
Gilbert
