has the clay pot said there is no potter?

actually since abiogenisis is not proven (yet but I hope lol) I dont hold any opinion on the matter, Other than that those who claim to know are either delusional or insane (and im dry so pass that over dammit ;) ).

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Originally Posted by weirdo79

actually since abiogenisis is not proven (yet but I hope lol) I dont hold any opinion on the matter, Other than that those who claim to know are either delusional or insane (and im dry so pass that over dammit ;) ).

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..lol..caugh!! caugh!! here man, its the high grade so dont hold it in too long..caugh! caugh!!

(cough's uncontrollably) I've never been able to hold smoke in , weak lil lungs but ill try again (almost cough's up a lung) daaaaaaaaamn ;).

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Originally Posted by weirdo79

By the way devious I know we've had words on this issue before (and I like your stance and buddhism in general to be perfectly frank) But I dont feel the need to respect someones belief's when they tell me to close my eyes put my fingers in my ears and just go "lalalalalala" and believe everything some random monotheistic based "group" says is true. To me faith is just another word for ignorance coupled with fear.

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I wasn't really talking about respecting the belief weirdo79, but respecting the person. I've never been a proponent of the general societal belief that if a theory is called a faith it warrants automatic respect. The type of respect I'm talking about is between people, because whether or not my opponent's logic is inferior to my logic, it's more productive to set up a situation where the two debators analyse and consider each others opinions, which is done through rational scrutiny of your opponent's train of thought.

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

At least we can both agree on one thing cheebahawk, everybody needs to start respecting each other and understanding, rather than arguing. And I think I too fell into the trap that most do, that being turning a conversation into an argument, the difference being working at a victory rather than an exchange of ideas. That being said, I'll try to communicate instead of argue.

On the matter of evolution, I can tell you that nobody has ever witnessed evolution. Evolutionists themselves do not believe that anybody has ever witnessed it, because it is not something that happens to any living organism during their life. I think the movie "X-men" (while an enjoyable movie) has done a great disservice to evolution in this respect, portraying the idea that it's just something that happens to organisms every so many years. The point is, evolution is something that happens over millions (even billions) of years at microscopic levels, at our genetic code.
An antalope turning into a bird just can't happen, and has no reason to since antalope are already the finished product of a species which has adapted to its environment. I'm not an expert in evolution, but I'll make up a little imaginary piece just for the sake of example (A bit long, but I'd appreciate it if you read it, it'll give you a much better idea where I'm coming from):

under the ocean there's a group of these little squishy creatures about the size of my thumbnail. Every one of these creatures has a genetic code, and as is known, every so often one will eventually give birth to an offspring with a genetic mutation. One may mutate so as to a have growth on its back, and this will not have offspring because such a growth is unattractive to potential mates, hence leaving the genetic pool. Another may mutate so as to be born with a weaker immune system, and so it'll die and not pass on its genes.

But one luckly little creature will be born with a calcium deposit on its back. no big deal really, except this little calcium deposit poses as no disadvantage and so it goes on to breed, adding to the gene pool. Soon many of these creatures are born with the little calcium deposit that has been passed on, and it has in fact protected them from injury over the area it grows on. Since these little guys have a bit of an extra edge in being protected, they survive more than the rest and continue to pass on their genes more than the rest. These genes, which are already programmed to grow calcium deposits on their backs, will be more prone to mutate in a way causes more buildup of calcium on their back. So, every generation after the last that has a mutation will be more likely to mutate so as to have bigger calcium deposits, and thus more external protection. Eventually, this process will continue over a few million years until their entire race is completely covered in a calcium shell protecting them from enemies. And so, the squishy little creatures a few million years ago have evolved into what we call today a clam. Yet, nobody once saw one of these little guy suddenly turning into a clam.

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hmm, good piont. i see where your coming from. truthfully theres alot of wierd shit in the sea. a friend of mine e-mailed me a pic of some wierd fish, i have no idea what it is but it looks like some mutated monster fish, kinda hard to beleive. honestly the clam is one in amillion, but simplely life here on earth is too complicated for my common sence to just leave as it all just happend. to me it seems that everything has it own identity, like a tree produces trees, a ant spawns ants and so forth. but nothing has ever mixed like a half tree half elephant because everything is just randomly happening. everything has its own genetic code for what that thing is. a spider can only give birth to a spider, yet it may give birth to a new kind of spider, it is still a spider. there is a interesting story line from a video game called " the legacy of kain" you may or may not have heard of it but in the game vampires lived for many years till one of them named "razeal" is born with wings. this came from the farther of vamps named " kain" it came from his genetic pool and came through razeal witch bypassed kain himself. now because razeal was born with wings his fellow brethers and kain damned him and threw him in some pit. anyway when razeal was givin life again he comes back to find his brethers all morphed to hideious monster vampiers in witch he had to kill to get their genes and allso face kain his own farther. anyway razeal becomes the mightiest of all vamps cause of his own genes and his brethers, now iv played this game (high outa my mind let me add) and wondered if man will ever do the same as razeal did. like evolve into a new kind of man. iv done reading on nano technology, and it says they can interject this nano thing in you and they can program its basic use like if the heart gose bad the nano chips will repair your heart. its real purpose though is for astronaunts who they plan to send to mars. the nano chips is what they plan to use to make them beat the conditions on mars. then they said they plan on using this on the average person on earth in witch they glorified that soon man will run and never get tiered, maintain a body like a wieght lifter and never lift a wieght in their lives. they went on and on about the advances this nano chip can do. so i wonder if this is to be, what happens to the child that is born from one of these men. because in the same reading it says that a baby boy from russia was used for the test for the nano and they reported him at four years old lifting a empty 4X4 truck, and they show pics of him lifting it pionting out how abnormally developed his calfs was and upper turso. so i dont know..anything is possible...hey my weed outed on me!!!

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

I wasn't really talking about respecting the belief weirdo79, but respecting the person. I've never been a proponent of the general societal belief that if a theory is called a faith it warrants automatic respect. The type of respect I'm talking about is between people, because whether or not my opponent's logic is inferior to my logic, it's more productive to set up a situation where the two debators analyse and consider each others opinions, which is done through rational scrutiny of your opponent's train of thought.

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i respect that to the fullest mam!!!

oops i ment man!!

"On the matter of evolution, I can tell you that nobody has ever witnessed evolution. Evolutionists themselves do not believe that anybody has ever witnessed it, because it is not something that happens to any living organism during their life....The point is, evolution is something that happens over millions (even billions) of years at microscopic levels, at our genetic code.
"

Actually, on a small scale, that's not exactly true. There is a myth in the gulf of Japan that slain samuri warriors sometimes reincarnate as these little crabs. Some of the crabs shells resemble the face of a Samuri so the fishermen throw them back. Over the course of time only the crabs who's shells look like Samuri survive, so now all the crabs have little samuri faces on their backs. Natural selection in action.

They say it's happening with elephants and smaller tusks from poachers, and I've read a few examples of insects that only live a few days but go through several generations a summer. There's no lack of hard evidence if someone is willing to do just a little homework.

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Originally Posted by Hamlet

"On the matter of evolution, I can tell you that nobody has ever witnessed evolution. Evolutionists themselves do not believe that anybody has ever witnessed it, because it is not something that happens to any living organism during their life....The point is, evolution is something that happens over millions (even billions) of years at microscopic levels, at our genetic code.
"

Actually, on a small scale, that's not exactly true. There is a myth in the gulf of Japan that slain samuri warriors sometimes reincarnate as these little crabs. Some of the crabs shells resemble the face of a Samuri so the fishermen throw them back. Over the course of time only the crabs who's shells look like Samuri survive, so now all the crabs have little samuri faces on their backs. Natural selection in action.

They say it's happening with elephants and smaller tusks from poachers, and I've read a few examples of insects that only live a few days but go through several generations a summer. There's no lack of hard evidence if someone is willing to do just a little homework.

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lol lol lol lol..you serious!! crabs with samuri faces? them japs man, allways on another level!!

Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. I've seen all sorts of interesting characteristics on creatures, just look at that butterfly with the face of an owl for wings. Whether or not the japanese are correct about the reincarnation of samurai, selectively killing only those without the "faces" is going to cause a boost in that population. Also, if you really want to observe evolution just look at dogs. My border-collie is the result of thousands of years of selective breeding, as are many of the extreme varriations in dogs, all of which come from only 4 or 5 innitial canine species.