has the clay pot said there is no potter?

[CheebaHawk]

interesting, iv read alot here and im not surprised to hear what i'v heard. why when god's name enters the mind people are more prone to reject his being? has the clay pot said to itself i have no potter? has the human body said i know where to put my heart? has the DNA code said i wrote this myself? why dosent the ear smell and the nose hears? has the bones placed themself on a drawing board and said this is how man should be put together? tell me, has man put together the earth? if so make another one. send sun to shine in the day and light up the sky and at night stars to decorate it. how did you know that sun rays can grow trees and effect the earth in many ways then put yourself here to live. was the womans birth your idea or did you get lazy on how to bring new human being to life with out your help? and how did you make the human mind so men can live in the true sence of free will? and why did you take so long to learn how to travel on land and sea and air? why not bring that to being too when you made the earth? why didnt you teach the egyptions how to make guns? and why pyramids and not sky scrappers? but then you loose faith in yourself and use science to research something that you did. then you cause people to round up the knowledge you used to make the earth as religeon. tell me, have you heard god's vioce walkin in the dew of the day and hid yourself? has the knowledge of good and evil opened your mind to your own death? are you mad that the way to life everlasting is beyond your reach and the works of your hands, are you mad that the way is not of your creation but from a path you know not? but like a woman at labor about to give birth, theres nothing she can do at that piont, its out of her control, her body WILL give birth to that child, so is your own death. at that hour your thoughts do perish and it is this out of your control thing that makes you reject god. you have control over your own flesh but not the life in it. now that instructions has bin giving to you concerning this matter you accept it not but instead divide it and call it religeon, so that it has no power and everything remains in your control. "so you think" your emagination has hid nothing from you, the works of your hands has increased and has spawned from your own mind. so why have you created evil inventions to kill rather than sustain life? or is war just your plessure? you created the earth to live forever but not yourself. that was stupid as smart as you are. basically my piont is, if we reject the only record of god on this earth then there is no understanding, we beleive what we want and die that way. that is a sad exsistance. so tell me has the clay pot said i have no potter?

CheebaHawk Reviewed by CheebaHawk on 08-25-2006. has the clay pot said there is no potter? interesting, iv read alot here and im not surprised to hear what i'v heard. why when god's name enters the mind people are more prone to reject his being? has the clay pot said to itself i have no potter? has the human body said i know where to put my heart? has the DNA code said i wrote this myself? why dosent the ear smell and the nose hears? has the bones placed themself on a drawing board and said this is how man should be put together? tell me, has man put together the earth? if so make Rating: 5

[Hamlet]

That's a lot of questions for sure. But clay pots don't ask questions and men do. And a really big question is "the only record of god on this earth". That's a question ya gotta ask yourself. So you read the book for yourself (without some bullshit preacher twisting it around to suit him) and the reasonable answer is 'not bloody likely'.

The second part of that sentence "there is no understanding" kinda falls off when you think that man didn't really gain much understanding (like all the examples about DNA n' such in your speech) until he decided that these self-appointed prophets were feeding him a bunch of crapola.

Sorry man, the flowery talk doesn't work on us any more. We've been sold snake oil too many times and we've got our eyes open now.

[mrdevious]

Ah that old monotheistic nutshell; "we're designed, so that proves there's a designer". Men go around proclaiming that the existence of a designed being can only be the result of a designer, it only makes sense after all. A pot cannot mold itself, a cellphone cannot construct itself, and so obviously a human being cannot build itself. The only problem here is that the claypot-to-human analogoy conveniently ignores the built in biological mechanism that's been proven to exist in all organisms, that being genetic mutation. Whether or not you believe in evolution, genetic mutation causes environmental adaptation as is shown in all natural systems, showing that indeed a designer is not a necessary prerequisite to design. Really all this "god" concept is, is a piece that can fit into any part of the puzzle. But until we see this god, he's only a concept, a nice little idea that proposes a possible explanation to our current situation in existence. and until pots start developing a genetic code prone to occasional mutation, I'm not considering any such comparrision logically admissable.

oh, here's a guy proving there's a god as well...

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...q=proof+of+god

[CheebaHawk]

[quote=Hamlet]That's a lot of questions for sure. But clay pots don't ask questions and men do. And a really big question is "the only record of god on this earth". That's a question ya gotta ask yourself. So you read the book for yourself (without some bullshit preacher twisting it around to suit him) and the reasonable answer is 'not bloody likely'.

The second part of that sentence "there is no understanding" kinda falls off when you think that man didn't really gain much understanding (like all the examples about DNA n' such in your speech) until he decided that these self-appointed prophets were feeding him a bunch of crapola.

Sorry man, the flowery talk doesn't work on us any more. We've been sold snake oil too many times and we've got our eyes open now.[/QUOTE

exactly what mean. you miss the piont of the parable and took it literally. i know pots dont talk but can anything made with intellegence have no intellegent creator? you went with something more easy for you to handle. the emagination has brought forth many things and in this man has understanding. we know the works of the flesh but not the life in it. when i say no understanding i mean we dont know our position here on earth related to god. we rather beleive in something that keeps us in control and all knowledge in our hands "so we think" if what i ask is wrong then bring back your life after your death and show me that man has brought himself forth from nothing. so my question still stands " has the clay pot said it has no potter or maker?"

[Hamlet]

What you're steering towards is straight to good ol' King James. Yeah, I sang the Potter/Clay song back in Sunday School too.

Now comes the 'catch'. Since no one hears a peep out of 'the Designer' and everybody that buys into the designer pottery gig feels a little uptight about that fact; it makes things really easy for someone to come along and proclaim they're hooked up.

The next thing ya know they're telling you how to vote, to send money, to go to war, or drink poison Koolade. Thanks but no thanks.

If some cosmic Designer wants credit for his work he's going to have to speak up for himself from now on. We've been bullshited long enough.

[CheebaHawk]

Ah that old monotheistic nutshell; "we're designed, so that proves there's a designer". Men go around proclaiming that the existence of a designed being can only be the result of a designer, it only makes sense after all. A pot cannot mold itself, a cellphone cannot construct itself, and so obviously a human being cannot build itself. The only problem here is that the claypot-to-human analogoy conveniently ignores the built in biological mechanism that's been proven to exist in all organisms, that being genetic mutation. Whether or not you believe in evolution, genetic mutation causes environmental adaptation as is shown in all natural systems, showing that indeed a designer is not a necessary prerequisite to design. Really all this "god" concept is, is a piece that can fit into any part of the puzzle. But until we see this god, he's only a concept, a nice little idea that proposes a possible explanation to our current situation in existence. and until pots start developing a genetic code prone to occasional mutation, I'm not considering any such comparrision logically admissable.

oh, here's a guy proving there's a god as well...

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...q=proof+of+god

if you had understanding you wouldnt be looking for god as you call concept. the god you speak of "like you and me" has likes and dislikes, a personality and even changes his mind and make changes. now when i said that life is in a path man knows not, i was reffering to the rightiousness that god loves. but yet we would prefer him to prove himself to us, when we are against everything hes about. i dont know one person who could take their life for another, nobody loves anybody that mush. even i dont understand love like that yet that level of love keeps god from wiping out man kind that discrases everything hes about. instead you have free will and a chioce. to kill everthing in site with out a chance would not be rightious. but yet he said that man would seek him and not find him because our hearts is desprately sinnfull and has no place with him. thats where understanding comes in, if i know that he wont prove himself to me why would i try to prove his exsistance? like
our forfarthers and our children's children we never going to get a answer. so i ask myself, what is sin that god has appionted death unto man because of its nature and caused him to have a back turned towards us? people ask why god let this and god let that happen but really we let it happen, that thing we was born in causes this. the very thing that speaks against his rightiousness. people expect him to be man like, like when provoked gota prove himself or when under pressure gota make something happen. the mind that put man kind together gota be so dam wise because to create a life that can reproduce itself just like itself yet not like itself is beyond brilliant. but im just saying, life couldnt be..........just by chance or evolution

[CheebaHawk]

What you're steering towards is straight to good ol' King James. Yeah, I sang the Potter/Clay song back in Sunday School too.

Now comes the 'catch'. Since no one hears a peep out of 'the Designer' and everybody that buys into the designer pottery gig feels a little uptight about that fact; it makes things really easy for someone to come along and proclaim they're hooked up.

The next thing ya know they're telling you how to vote, to send money, to go to war, or drink poison Koolade. Thanks but no thanks.

If some cosmic Designer wants credit for his work he's going to have to speak up for himself from now on. We've been bullshited long enough.

im not trying to tell you how to vote are anything, but you still didnt answer the question. can you bring yourself back from the dead? can you show that life is just by chance? make me a new earth. then make me animals to rule over and make me a wife from your hands. better yet give me this knowledge so i can do it myself.

[FAllout]

no its not like the kid denied his parents...

The kid jsut denied the superman figure dremt up thousnads of years ago to explain what is easy to see any way if you just open your mind a little.



:thumbsup:

[FAllout]

no its not like the kid denied his parents...

The kid jsut denied the superman figure dremt up thousnads of years ago to explain what is easy to see any way if you just open your mind a little.



:thumbsup:

Its not that the teachings of the bible are wrong in any way...
But forcing people to belive in somehting that can't be proven by telling them to just have faith in absence of reason is wrong...

the same as a politicion telling you how you will have a better life if you vote for them.

Its obvisuly a lie, no matter how much you want to belive them.

sorry if this hurt any ones fellings, thats to bad go throw a frisby or something.

[Hamlet]

you still didnt answer the question. can you bring yourself back from the dead? can you show that life is just by chance? make me a new earth. then make me animals to rule over and make me a wife from your hands. better yet give me this knowledge so i can do it myself.

Answer? No to the first question, yes to the second, the third is 'maybe' depending on how it's interpreted. But just because I can or can't do something doesn't mean all those groovy things came about the way a Hebrew mythology said they did. Do you believe the Earth rests on the back of a great turtle? That's one culture's mythology. How about many gods? The Old Testament acknowledged the existence of more than one god if you read it closely. El and Baal were originally brothers in the old myths. Moses just happened to take up with El.

But really, if you want to believe in a Designer you're prefectly free to do so. As for me I'll go with what is most rational to the best of mankinds knowledge. Ya see I'm big on 'Truth'...and if the truth is that there is an Original Designer, I have no problems changing my mind. Could you say the same if the Truth is that there is no Designer? Because the rational facts are all pointing in that direction.