ATTENTION: Irish "Tomato" Growers!

Thanks for the RESPONSE! i think you have satisfied many like me who sat staring at this whole proposal bewildered. And for those *nerds* out there, who, as me... is enjoying all of this info as i am. i think the real purpose of this soil is being seen now..small labs, rarity plants. lets hear some results..im waiting!!lol
in the meantime..forget arguing about techniques lets just enjoy the opportunity to visualize this power of organics! But what does one Now consider to satisfy/optimize the happyness of the plant roots AND the hypae(right?-fungus part) do you tell people who use your products on different plants to mix the soil to treat THEIR plants and adjust your soil to their plant species needs?(aeration wise or otherwise) or must your soil retain it's certain "micro-spacyness" or wtvr maybe even something simple like perilite
i feel like weed roots are really well..weed like.. this is similiar to real tomatoe plants so how do you go on deciding the final qualitys of the soil?

dmahny88,


The thing you have to remember about soil is that most of it is an erosion byproduct.

Abiotic processes (weathering) and biotic processes (via living organisms) have been powdering and oxidizing the Earth's crust for a billion years. This powdered stone provides raw materials which are then processed into complex organic molecules by bacteria... it's the bacteria that provide the substrates for the growing plants. The raw chemicals (the eroded stones) aren't biologically availabe to the plants, the plants live off the work of the bacteria: spongers.

Remember, plants aren't cannibals... they dont consume other dead plants (compost). Soil bacteria (rhizobacteria) convert the inorganic (stone residue) and organic (plant waste) materials into the substrates the plants absorb. Bacteria were converting eroded stone into a nutritious slime for millions of years before plants evolved to take advantage of it.

So large fractions of your soil are completely unproductive:

-the stone residue is unproductive.

-all the organic material in excess of what the rhizobacteria can process is unproductive.

-all the perlite (and other aerating material) is unproductive.



Why not do what I do?

Make a soil that is only productive fractions: just enough organic material to support elevated levels of rhizobacteria and a nutrient base.


-PayDirt

But this still doesn't consider the plant's specific roots..a tree has a symbiotic relation with bacteria just as a cannabis plant does and both would prosper well in a soil with a maximizing amount of the "productive" elements(like yours) but STILL a plant's roots enjoy their own type/feel of soil depending on their root-type/DNA(pot plants have much different roots than other plants) so isn't there a big area of adjustment(so many different factors here) one could be messing around with to create a better product when using your soil as the base ingredient(drainage, water absorbance..basically anything that wouldn't really affect the microscopic bacterial growth part but would affect actual plant root growth)?..Just saying, are you trying to make the focus of your soil it's organic properties so that any plant with roots weed-like or tree-like will grow ok in your soil either way but will both have that same great bacterial potential??


so you make a soil that boosts soil metabolism. but for a plant to establish it's roots quickly and with strength like we want for these plants..shouldn't the soil's root growth potential be considered just as equally to it's levels of rhizobacteria?

dmahny88,

This is actually a common misconception... soil texture has no real effect on root growth.

Growers think/assume soil texture has an effect because certain plants prefer certain soil conditions in the wild. But remember, in the wild (or when using regular soils under controlled conditions) the absorbable nutritious substrates are a very small fraction of the total; soil drainage and aeration are serious considerations when roots are struggling to grow.

When nutrients are available in gross excess, root growth is uninhibited... only aeration and water levels can limit it.


It doesn't matter what texture a soil has if it absorbs and holds water well as drainage becomes a moot point.

It doesn't matter what texture a soil has, or if that texture allows access to the exact specific nutrients the roots require... not if ALL the nutrients are present in gross excess... the roots simply take what they need.

...it's sort of like making dinner for your family reunion, nothing you prepare will satisfy carnivores; vegetarians; celiacs and vegans. But if you laid on a huge buffet spread with thousands of calories and dozens of courses for each guest: everyone can just help themselves.


With all that said, my soil does require worms for aeration... lest it solidify and smother the roots. My volunteer grower from this forum had this very problem because he forgot to add worms.


-PayDirt

Here's my latest post on the sister thread over at RollItUp, copied here for anyone interested:
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ATTENTION: Irish "Tomato" Growers! - Page 6 - Marijuana Growing
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As I explained to the last person who emailed me:

I only had enough substrate and ingredients to make 10 or 11 grow bags. But during the processing I (accidently) burnt out part of the drive shaft in my milling machine, with only 9 bags finished.

So I divided up the bags as best I could:
2 bags to a grower from RollItUp.org
2 bags to a grower from Cannabis.com
3 bags to an acquaintance of an acquaintance

...and two bags just sat in my garage, unwanted.

After a couple of months of no further interest I gifted these last two bags to a botanist friend for whom I have done some soil work in the past. Sort of a thank you present (he pays very well).

If he hasn't used them, and I can get them back... I'll give them to the last guy who inquired about joining the experiment.



To be honest, I think this entire endeavour has been a waste of time.

The grower from Cannabis.com forgot to add worms or moss peat to aerate the soil and somewhat stifled the roots of his plants... haven't heard from him since, so I don't know how the plants are doing.

The grower from this forum (he's posted in this thread, but I won't name anyone without their permission) made the mistake of growing two separate strains, which effectively defeats the purpose of the control group entirely... also, he was unable to water the plants for a few weeks as he was out of the country. Again, I haven't heard from him in a couple of months (he should be harvesting now) so I don't know whats going on with him either.


That's not a criticism of anyone involved, I'm still very grateful for the work put in by the volunteers, who, after all, are only amateur growers doing their best.


I just wish I had better results for my 1,200 euros of ingrediets and broken milling machine.


The acquaintance of an acquaintance (shady character whom I have never met) won't tell me how he got on at all... no pictures; no yield results; nothing. Bastard.

The only thing I know is that he wants a price quote on some sort of bulk discount on more bags... I've passed on word that the cost price is 115euro a bag, so I can't really sell bags for less than say 135euro (20 quid a bag for my work seems fair to me considering the to week processing time)... but at that price he's apparently considering a second grow with the sample bags to see how long the soil lasts.

I did offer him a deal: a set amount of bags; maybe 50 or 100 bags; at COST (115euro) in exchange for him buying me a new (or reconditioned milling machine). But he hasn't responded yet (which he will only do through a friend of a friend).



My current plan, is to get some better results (maybe even some customers) via some industrial (legal) growers in mainland Europe.

But this will be a much more expensive process:
-new milling machine
-Fed-Ex free samples to industrial growers who can do proper comparative grows against a control group

...thats gonna cost me several thousand straight off.

So if I go that route I'll probably opt for a heavy-duty industrial milling machine (which should bring down the manufacturing cost somewhat and better stabilise the product) , put up a discreet website and see if my magic dirt is a viable business in it's own right.

I certainly won't get any venure capital or investment for such a business (imagine that pitch on Dragon's Den!), so it'll probably have to be 6 or maybe 7 grand of my own money... risky.

Will keep you guys posted either way.

Let's hope for some results.


-PayDirt
PS... will gladly answer any further questions as time allows.

Just finished reading your thread now, great read! Must admit alot
went over my head (never did Biology). Sorry to hear it didn't go
so smoothly!

I'd love to test it against my normal recipe (peat moss + sand ,
organic fertilisers) using clones for the closest possible start in
life to see their differences. I understand if you're nearing your
wits with pot farmers, but I would love to know more! If there was
any possibility of getting a miniscule sample even, I could maybe
flower early to save time and see which yields more.

I'd normally do outdoors, but could use my 'lab' to keep it
contained, less variables that way.

I also have some auto flowering strains to try too. I have a goal
of trying to reduce these from their normal 9 weeks from
germination to harvest by any means possible (through
experimentation). I reckon a faster turnaround in that area would
be a huge achievement in the Tomatoe society, worldwide.

Misty.


P.S. I've heard alot of hype about UVB rays, which are lacking with
indoor ops (no real replacement for natural light). They increase
mainly just cannibinoids, or so I hear!

P.P.S. Your HM account is now closed down!

i would be very interested in trying out some of your super soil! [email protected] mail me