9/11 US government conspiracy question

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Originally Posted by Perp

Plus the way the buildings collapsed so perfectly, no one can argue that it didn't look like a controlled demolition. I mean, a building fell down perfectly in its own footprint, that wasn't hit by a plane. And so when I saw the video of the firemen saying they heard a series of "pops" immediately before collapse, I couldn't accept there weren't explosives in the buildings.

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I was very close to the scene when it happened, and it was total mayhem.

I was told the "truth" on 9/11, by an architect, as I was leaving lower NYC on the subway. He told me that the buildings were going to collapse straight down - and this is exactly what happened a short time later.

Many of the original claims of explosions and "pops" have since been explained.


http://www.debunking911.com/
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch5.htm
http://thatsjuststupid.com/911.htm

I’ve seen the videos and have seen the bursts coming out of the windows of the two towers and tower 7.
To be honest I don’t have the education to Know what did it. I also think too many people put their trust in the authorities. Most Americans see some “expert” on Fox news saying the explosions were from hot air. It might not make sense to them, actually I’m pretty sure their thought process doesn’t get that far. They just accept and believe.

But, everyone on here should hunt down the video of tower 7 falling. Its quite troubling, for 1 the explosions move upward seconds b4 it falls. If it was from hot air of anything due to the explosion the bursts would move downward.

What is the most powerful information, IMO, is that the 3 world trade towers are the first 3 towers to EVER fall from fire. We all must realize that towers are build to survive being hit by planes. And that’s why several towers have survived a plane hit in the past.

The most troublesome is tower 7. It didn’t get hit by a plane and was bearly on fire, yet it fell. And guess what no official story as to why. They just tried to forget about that tower and left it out of the report;

without a doubt, criminal elements of our government made 9/11 happen, and for bigger motives than "they hate our freedom..."...patriot act that gives us a parallel unconstitutional legal system naming all 'crimes' as terrorism, homeland security and police state dictatorship and economy at home, selling weapons and endless war abroad, getting more of the world under a fiat currency system, it's endless...

here's a relatively small 9/11 archive compared to other, but it's a start if anyone seriously wants to look into this stuff...all links to mainstream articles, LOC, government documents, et.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

and here are a couple videos to put things in a bigger perspective:
Aaron Russo's America, From Freedom to Fascism
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+fascism&hl=en

Alex Jones' Terror Storm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rorstorm&hl=en

Alex Jones' Martial Law
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...tial+law&hl=en

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Originally Posted by xblackdogx

1)i don't even know what you're trying to get across

2)if YOU have a problem with me typing in CAPS when saying they believe the government because they won't look into the FACTS is me trying to "scare people", then that's still you're problem, not mine.

3)and It wasn't George's Dad who helped Jr. with his oil companies (which he bankrupt..) it was his Saudi Arabian friends!!! The truth is out there, go fucking find it!

anyone who ISNT or DOESNT WANT TO look for the truth is a slave to the creators of money!

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or they just dont give a god damn about politics they arent involved in like me

Here is IMO a very important video. This is a video of a scholarly forum last year on 9/11. They start from square 1 with no assumptions, only the possible explanations. They move through the evidence, observations and reports; They often compare the data to the “official account” and find many interesting things. They also treat the demolition of tower 7 as a very real possibility, As you’ll see in the video its collapse is strikingly similar to a controlled demolition. In so very important ways that are very hard or impossible to account for by any other means.

This is a very unbiased video,

Please check it out.

http://filmstripinternational.com/fi...lmstrip=jones2

I don't think Bush planned 9/11, but I definitely think it was an inside job. Creating controversy and pain like 9/11 did was the perfect way to bring a fractured country back together...and put their faith 100% into the government- hence allowing the gov't to do whatever the hell they wanted to.

Bush is a dumbass. It wasn't him specifically who did the plan it was his administration. Every day I believe it more and more theres just so much evidence out there.

why is it so hard to believe it was a terrorist attack? if i recall, there was an attempted detonation of the world trade centers by al quaeda in 1993. wow. the fact of the matter is that a plane did crash into the building, and even if the government supposedly detonated it later on, the fact that a group of people took control of 4 planes and crashed them is alone enough justification for calling 9/11 a terrorist attack.

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Originally Posted by Mr Rodgers

or they just dont give a god damn about politics they arent involved in like me

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you're an idiot. if you live in america you are "involved" in these politics, whether you like it or not. USA Patriot Act is ONE example.

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Originally Posted by wrasler

why is it so hard to believe it was a terrorist attack? if i recall, there was an attempted detonation of the world trade centers by al quaeda in 1993. wow. the fact of the matter is that a plane did crash into the building, and even if the government supposedly detonated it later on, the fact that a group of people took control of 4 planes and crashed them is alone enough justification for calling 9/11 a terrorist attack.

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i want to believe that it was a terrorist attack. I WISH THE PROBLEM WAS simply 4 planes were hijacked by dumbasses that hate us. But the dumbasses that did this were those who are supposed to be "keeping us safe".

Get your FACTS to explain these photos. it is IMPOSSIBLE for a plane to cause this damage!

thanks for the pictures

the simple truth is, that if the US gov. wanted to prove all us nut-jobs wrong. they could just release the 4 video tapes of a "plane" hitting the pentagon. They only released 4 frames from one. hmmm why would they do that?

Man today I just came across some very interesting thoughts on American politics. It’s in a book, I’ll type em out and post them. I think everyone will find them interesting

By Richard Heinberg, From Power Down 2004

Neo-conservatism is the intellectual offspring of Leo Strauss (1899-1973), a Jewish scholar who fled Hitler’s Germany and taught political science at the University of Chicago. According to Shadia Drury in LeoStrauss and the American Right, (Grifin 1999), Strauss advocated an essentially Machiavellian approach to governance.

He believed that:
-A leader must perpetually deceive those being ruled. Those who lead are accountable to no overarching system of morals, only to the right of the superior to rule in inferior.

-Religion is the force that binds society together, and is therefore the tool by which the ruler can manipulate the masses (any religion will do)

- Secularism in society is to be suppressed, because it leads to critical thinking and dissent.

- A political system can be stable only if it is united against an external threat, and that if no read threat exists, one should be manufactured

mmm mmm, lovin the the neo-cons

Remember that George W. Bush is a minion and is not in full control, despite him believing that he is. Thats what daddy's cocaine will do.

I do believe that 9/11 was orchestrated by entities inside the US government. There were many reports of explosions going off in the WTC complex and there are bright flashes seen just right before the planes make impact. The planes that were "hijacked" going to NYC were said to be military craft. You can also see what looks like controlled demolitions going off as the buildings are crumbling down. The plane that was supposed to have crashed in Pennsylvania was supposedly shot down by an F-15 which explains the wreckage for miles and the supposed plane that hit the Pentagon was probably rerouted while a missile hit the Pentagon. It only created a 16 foot hole and there was hardly any fire on the ground from it. If it had all of that jet fuel, then the whole area should have been on fire for days, yet it was not. I have seen the video of the Pentagon wall crumbling down 20 minutes AFTER the impact! A plane could definitely have not hit the Pentagon. There were reports that people saw what looked like a cruise missile and not a plane. It would be very hard for a pilot to hit the Pentagon at that speed and that altitude.

Now if the government lied about the Pentagon, why should we believe them that Muslim hijackers used boxcutters and hijacked airplanes? Sounds more like propaganda to me.

Now I am not saying I hate America or that it is evil. Far from it. Most people in government and public service are good people. It's like having one or two bad members in a family. The US government just has a small sect (neo-cons aka "the crazies") that want to rule the world and impose US policy all over using US military power. Just read the Project For A New American Century's pamphlet and you will clearly see that they needed another Pearl Harbor to implement their policies and 9/11 was the "miracle" they needed.

I hate to admit it, but I am convinced that a small certain group of people rule the world. I know David Icke gets into this a lot. Alex Jones is more on the rational side, with David being more on the New Age spiritual side, but both pretty much believe in the same core principles that the world is headed for a one world fascist New World Order government.

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Originally Posted by HinduKush83

It only created a 16 foot hole and there was hardly any fire on the ground from it. If it had all of that jet fuel, then the whole area should have been on fire for days, yet it was not. I have seen the video of the Pentagon wall crumbling down 20 minutes AFTER the impact! A plane could definitely have not hit the Pentagon. There were reports that people saw what looked like a cruise missile and not a plane. It would be very hard for a pilot to hit the Pentagon at that speed and that altitude.

Now if the government lied about the Pentagon, why should we believe them that Muslim hijackers used boxcutters and hijacked airplanes? Sounds more like propaganda to me..

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I know man, i agree. There is some very strong evidence that contradicts the story that a plane hit the pentagon. As well, as i said b4 if the government wanted to greatly impact the credibility of the conspiracy theorists all they need to do is release one of the tapes they have of a "plane" hitting the building. But they dont.
Why?
Well with over 50% of New York city believing that the Gov. had a hand to play in 9/11 it would be greatly in their interest to release the tape. Yet they dont, i guess releasing the tape wouldn't help their situationâ?¦ wonder why that could be


:rasta:

What is to be gained? hmm

9/11 in effect granted Bush with more executive power than any President before him, with legislations such as Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act. It allowed him to get away with violating Foreign Intelligence Survellence Act of 1978.

There is no doubt that the Iraq War Resolution would not have passed pre-9/11. Where has all the money gone? WEAPONS CONTRACTS! To whom? Halliburton!

Larry Silverstein also signed an enormous insurance agreement specifically for terrorism in the weeks leading up to 9/11.

Put options on Boeing, Am Airlines, and United were 3-5 times the daily average in the week before 9/11.

Is there proof that it was an inside job? Probably not. Was there anything to gain from it? Certainly.

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Originally Posted by GotWake88

What is to be gained? hmm

9/11 in effect granted Bush with more executive power than any President before him, with legislations such as Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act. It allowed him to get away with violating Foreign Intelligence Survellence Act of 1978.

There is no doubt that the Iraq War Resolution would not have passed pre-9/11. Where has all the money gone? WEAPONS CONTRACTS! To whom? Halliburton!

Larry Silverstein also signed an enormous insurance agreement specifically for terrorism in the weeks leading up to 9/11.

Put options on Boeing, Am Airlines, and United were 3-5 times the daily average in the week before 9/11.

Is there proof that it was an inside job? Probably not. Was there anything to gain from it? Certainly.

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People forget the Reichstag fire incident which gave Adolf Hitler dictatorial powers in the name of "security". Hmmm...why does this sound so familiar?

One approach to look at the events of 9/11 would be to treat it like any other crime scene.
This is what the author of “crossing the rubicon” did. His first question is, “who benefited”. Strongly enough the US gov. probably benefited more than any other party involved. Very strange. Same with the owner of the towers, with his huge insurance policy. Wow, how often are the victims the largest beneficiary.
Anyways, I actually haven’t read the book, my father has. And he was very very skeptical of US gov. involvement b4 he read it and now he is “open to anything” because there is just so much evidence of their involvement.

If anyone seriously wants to learn about this topic. Or learn were us ”nut-jobs” are coming from, you should check out this book.


Link:
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/item/books-978086571540/0865715408/Crossing+the+Rubicon+The+Decline+of+the+American+E mpire+at+t?ref=Search+Books%3a+'Crossing+the+Rubic on'

9/11 wasn't totally geared for gaining oil in the middle east. The real reason was for real estate, ladies and gentlemen. Think about it. What better way to set up permanent military bases in "that region" than to have terrorists from "that region" attack your home land? You don't believe me? Didn't you know that the gov't. found their (terrorists) PAPER passports in the rubble that was hot enough to melt steel and retain a substantially high heat signature for almost 3 weeks?

As far as who to believe, I believe the men and women of the police departments, fire departments, port authority, rescue services, and employees in the towers. If these people say there were bombs going off, then I believe them. They have no reason to embelish the truth nor do they gain anything from their stories.

Sorry for the rant, just my $0.02. Have a great day y'all!

When i first saw the conspiracy video i believed it, but then i realized that it was retarded for the US to do that, but i'm sceptacle that an airplane hit the pentagon.

Pentagon eyewitnesses Hundreds of eyewitness accounts of the pentagon. Most saw a large airliner hit it. This link is from a 9/11 research web site.

I too would like to see some CCTV footage of the impact. One reason I can think of of them not releasing any is that maybe there cameras were not working or recording at the time. Dummy cameras perhaps? To admit this would be a breach of security. And a reason to not show what they may not have. If it wasnt for people with cameras we probly would not have seen the first plane impact the first WTC tower. The time between both WTC buildings being hit was enough time for media outlets to set up shop with there cameras and better catch the impact of building two.

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Originally Posted by Zimzum

Pentagon eyewitnesses Hundreds of eyewitness accounts of the pentagon. Most saw a large airliner hit it. This link is from a 9/11 research web site.

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did you look at the pictures i put up of the pentagon?
that puts ANY eyewitness account of a large airliner
in question!

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Originally Posted by Zimzum

I too would like to see some CCTV footage of the impact. One reason I can think of of them not releasing any is that maybe there cameras were not working or recording at the time. Dummy cameras perhaps? two.

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acctually there were 4 cameras viewing the building. 1 traffic camera, 1 gas station camera and two from a hotel. The FBI were at the locations within 5 min to remove all the tapes. There may have been more cameras owned by the pentagon

one of my biggest doubts about 9/11 was how someone hijacked that shit with box cutters and utility knives.

must have been 200 6 year old girls on both of those flights cause no real american man would puss out so much. fucking box cutters! hah.

Terrorist with a box cutter meets my fist:
my 1" stab wound at the most; 10% fatality.
me and 4 other guys stomping terrorists head until its 2D; 99.995% fatality.

I guess if they had hostages it would be a little different. but wtf who hijacks a plane in the air then kills the pilot when they plan on landing it and demanding money or something. so retarded.

Why do you people keep saying there is no profit. War=Profit and bolstered economy. Guess who got the defense contracts for the Iraq war: Haliburton. A company on par with Enron in my eyes. Guess who used to be the VP of this wonderful enterprise: Dick Cheney.

Must just be a coincidence huh?

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Originally Posted by SwirlyMass

one of my biggest doubts about 9/11 was how someone hijacked that shit with box cutters and utility knives.

must have been 200 6 year old girls on both of those flights cause no real american man would puss out so much. fucking box cutters! hah.

Terrorist with a box cutter meets my fist:
my 1" stab wound at the most; 10% fatality.
me and 4 other guys stomping terrorists head until its 2D; 99.995% fatality.

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Plenty of planes have been hijacked in the past, with no resistance, simply because the passengers and crew thought that they would safer just landing wherever the hijackers wanted. Had the passengers known that it was a jihad suicide mission, there definitely would have been people trying to stop it - as they did on the plane that crashed in Somerset County, Pennsylvania

It never should have happened simply because the pilots' cabins should have been locked, Israeli-style.


http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html
http://www.debunking911.com/
http://wtc.nist.gov
http://thatsjuststupid.com/911.htm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+and+teller%22

And if you haven't seen Bullshit! Episode on the War on Drugs, it's on Google Video as well....good stuff. Besides the Global Warming episode, I tend to agree with these guys.

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Originally Posted by harris7

There may have been more cameras owned by the pentagon

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may have been more cameras???

WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PENTAGON!! THE MOST SECURE BUILDING ON EARTH!

IF YOU LOOK AT THE PENTAGON PICS I POSTED UP ON THIS THREAD YOU CAN SEE ALL THE CAMERAS ON TOP OF THE PENTAGON ROOF. THERE'S TOO MANY TO COUNT!

Conspiracy theorists take a bunch of random, speculative facts and weave their web with them. Then they make a documentary or website that seems plausible based on these facts.

"There were reports of this and that"
"Explosions were heard at the base"
"I read on the internet that blah blah blah"

You tell us not to believe our own government and yet you believe stuff on the internet. There are a thousand other facts you are ignoring, and that's just faulty reasoning.

lol this is funny, i think that bush knew it was going to happen but didnt care so he didnt tell any one. ( my fav presiendt is bill clinton, u kno the one that had an affai and said "he didnt inhale lol) just like back on dec 7, 1941 they knew pearl harbor was going to happen 3 hours before it happend and just dint give a fuck. or i dunno if i making sense or what

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Originally Posted by xblackdogx

WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PENTAGON!! THE MOST SECURE BUILDING ON EARTH!

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Good point. They Clearly could prove it was a plane from 43 different angles if they wanted to.

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Originally Posted by trem0lo

Conspiracy theorists take a bunch of random, speculative facts and weave their web with them. Then they make a documentary or website that seems plausible based on these facts.

You tell us not to believe our own government and yet you believe stuff on the internet. There are a thousand other facts you are ignoring, and that's just faulty reasoning.

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You make a good point. You should realize that 95% of conspiracy theorists donâ??t believe what is proposed in loose change!
My view is rather simple, I donâ??t know what happened, but what I do know is that it isnâ??t what the Gov says happened. If you take the time to do some research youâ??ll find gaping flaws in the story, Flaws that no other information could explain (so donâ??t say were just selectively forgetting facts.).

Personally my biggest problems with the 9/11 story is the â??planeâ?� hitting the pentagon and tower 7 collapsing. More so, no tall building in history has fallen from fire! The first 3 ever happened on the same day, WOW what are the chances. Other buildings, for example the empire state building, have been hit by planes and didnâ??t fall.

Put a little faith in your abilities and a little time to research. Look at the pictures of the pentagon, Look at the small localized hole; look at the lack of debris in the area (remember how large a plane is). Then look at the â??official storyâ?� that the plane â??vaporizedâ?�. Vaporized means evaporated. The official story is that the fire was so hot that the metal evaporated!!! I know a lot about chemistry and even if this occurred the metal wouldnâ??t travel far, it would precipitate out of the air very very quickly at a short distance.
So if the plane did vaporize then molten metal would be found everywhere on the site. None was found. Ever heard of conservation of mass. Hmmm. Now what â??factâ?� that I forgot explains thisâ?¦

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle3995.htm

They have a Gain in this war.^^^^^^^^^^^^^

krogith, i dont have time to watch that video.

but i've seen the one in your sig. What do you think of it, I thought they took a pretty unbiased approach at it. i posted it on here b4

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Originally Posted by harris7

krogith, i dont have time to watch that video.

but i've seen the one in your sig. What do you think of it, I thought they took a pretty unbiased approach at it. i posted it on here b4

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I put it there because I think it is one of the most FACT driven Arguments on the subject.

Try and get some time to watch the one i posted
http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle3995.htm (it's in english after a min)

mmm, here is a very short 4min long video that points out very very important things.

it is all about tower 7. The tower no one seems to care much about.
the thrid tower that fell on 911.
Why did WTC buildings 1, 2 and 7 collapse?: Were there explosives planted? - Google Video

Just a video of a jet flying 500 mph into a fortified wall for a nuclear reactor. Atomization? While the pentagon wall wasn't as thick the same could be possible.

WKJO: Who Killed John O'Neill? - Google Video

one of the best video's made about 9-11, about a part most americans have no ideal about.

meet the best evidence we got


who killed john o'neil

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Originally Posted by Zimzum

Just a video of a jet flying 500 mph into a fortified wall for a nuclear reactor. Atomization? While the pentagon wall wasn't as thick the same could be possible.

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thanks for showing us a plane about 1/10th the size of an airline plane.




i researched 9-11 for 8 months, 6 hours a day.


yes, the government did have something to do with it.


research the 2.3 trillion that rummy went on tv on 9-10-01 and said we lost.

notice how the pentagon plane "hit" in the exact place where all those files where the money went were kept?

notice how most of the personal in the pentagon that was killed that day were accountants working on where that money went?

notice in pics days before 9-11, how there is a line in the grass that is almost the exact path the plane took comming in?




notice how over 200 israeli spies have been arrested in the us since 9-11?



notice how the pentagon fire burned for 20 mins, vaporized the plane, but left everyone's dna intact?



notice how the terrorists checked onto the plane under a fake id, but yet kept there real id on them or in there bags?



notice how the night before they meet there maker, they were out commiting not one, but 2 unforgiveable sins, by drinking and womanizing at a bar, which they left there koran and a bizz card at?


yeah, that dont sound like a set-up


hahahahaha

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thanks for showing us a plane about 1/10th the size of an airline plane

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1/10th the size? Try about half to a third of the size. All a bigger 757 would do is transfer more energy on impact. Reason why it blew threw 3 rings of the pentagon?

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notice how the pentagon plane "hit" in the exact place where all those files where the money went were kept?

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Bullshit. First I heard of that. And also there is no way for us to know what "filing cabinet" they were in. Most likely it was stored digitally. The building in question is a top secret facility. And I doubt even the director at the Pentagon has a clue, for the most part of whats stored in what filing cabinet and where.

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notice how most of the personal in the pentagon that was killed that day were accountants working on where that money went?

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Bullshit! Out of the 125 pentagon victims, not counting anyone who was on flight 77, only 11 of them were accountants or budget analysis.

Pentagon victims list

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notice in pics days before 9-11, how there is a line in the grass that is almost the exact path the plane took comming in?

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And there was also construction / renovations going on to that section. Possible its old tracks from whatever left those spools there? And if as allot of these theories claim the plane was remote controlled then there would be no need for any line or visual eye markers.

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notice how over 200 israeli spies have been arrested in the us since 9-11?

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The only places I've heard anything even remotely like this are people who link 9/11 to anti-semitic actions.

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notice how the pentagon fire burned for 20 mins, vaporized the plane, but left everyone's dna intact?

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DNA can be extracted from bone. Cremation is a very long process. Unless these people were running at 500 mph into concrete with the same mass of an aircraft, they wouldn't just vaporize.

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notice how the terrorists checked onto the plane under a fake id, but yet kept there real id on them or in there bags?

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You never given the police a fake name? Ever watch the show COPS when someone gets searched and they find like 5-10 stolen or fake IDs on them? Damn Ive gone threw airport security post 9/11 with weed, no questions asked.

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notice how the night before they meet there maker, they were out commiting not one, but 2 unforgiveable sins, by drinking and womanizing at a bar, which they left there koran and a bizz card at?

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Extremest do not follow the true calling of Islam. It is also a sin in there religion to commit Jihad against unarmed men, women, and children. Didn't we have some crazy christian cult that all drank the kool-aid to get on that UFO?

Zimzum.....we agree on something? LOL.....your wasting time with these folk but hell, nice effort. I've posted that vid on the jet many a time but hell, trying to convince the paranoid is a losing battle.;)

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by VisionaryUrbanTactic

notice how the pentagon fire burned for 20 mins, vaporized the plane, but left everyone's dna intact?aha

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This is the only piece of information I need to Know they are lying.
Itâ??s a horrible cover story anyone whos taken a reasonable amount of chemistry would know this. And I would hope most civilians would too.
Maybe itâ??s just the terms the used â??vaporizedâ?� not evaporated.

Its such a poor story it shows how much respect of the intelligence of their citizens the US gov has

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

Zimzum.....we agree on something? LOL.....your wasting time with these folk but hell, nice effort. I've posted that vid on the jet many a time but hell, trying to convince the paranoid is a losing battle.;)

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

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That is an impressive video of the jet.

We must keep in mind that almost every variable between that video and 911 are different

If you change every variable is it reasonable to expect the same result?

And BTW the Jet did not vaporize like they claim the 757 did.
The government wants us to believe that almost the entire plane vaporized and turned into the gas state (yes metal in the gas state) and then disappeared.

Although I can image the first happening, even though it is impossible as nothing could generate that amount of heat, I cannot believe the second. WE all know the law of conservation of matter.

Psycho, why I say it is impossible go look up how much energy (in kilojoules) it takes to heat up all that metal from 25 degrees C to vaporization.
Then find out how much fuel is in the plane and how much total energy that fuel has (again in kilojoules)

You will find that it is impossible

harris - how does the energy in the aircraft itself figure?

does an airliner pushing 500mph+ with all that mass make up some of the missing energy?

I'm on the fence on this one, but I don't buy the official story btw