i am a 16 year old black person that smokes weed all day who is going to listen to me
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i am a 16 year old black person that smokes weed all day who is going to listen to me
Smart thinking. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by greenmanondeck
Serj from SOAD?! I thought he had long hair? I like it short. He is so good looking. *sigh*
This is true, the Sudan Government issues Russian made AK-47 rifles, 7.62 Chinese ammo and Chinese made "knock offs" of the BHP PistolQuote:
Originally Posted by BlueCat
Lack of perfection is a reality on this planet, if you can not accept that fact you are going to be greatly disappointed thru live. The difference in America is "if" you get caught you will be held accountable, unlike the majority of the rest of the world, Thats one thing America does right.Quote:
Next was this statement: And it's going to continue until people have non-corrupt Governments that at least acknowledge the human being as such, and have a functioning economies.
We ARE corrupt, there are no non corrupt governments. It is a beautiful idealogical thought and it would be great if it worked that way. It doesn't. OH then it was also the rude conspiracy theory crack.
If you really think Corporations "control" Government arms sales, How come Congress votes "no" on a large percentage of the proposed sales ? If they can't buy off Congress they can't have much control.Quote:
Corporate control and arm sells ARE NOT conspiracy theories. Anything anyone does not know about seems to be labeled conspiracy now a days.
You protect your interests everyday, by the decisions you make just like business, thats what I meant. Someday I going meet someone on the INTERNET who has actually read 1984.Quote:
Or how about this brilliant Orwellian thought: yes, companies defend their interests/investments just like people do. Who would have thought that the people who run them big bad evil corporations would let human emotion enter into their judgments on business matters.
No one I know behaves like this. Maybe you have a habit of making your neighbors fight and kill each other so you can buy their houses. I don't know.
Drink Pepsi help save the world.Quote:
You might want to read up on the Coca Cola plant in Columbia too. They are doing such fine humanitarian things these days.
http://www.killercoke.org/
That was generalization aimed at no one person, you choose to put yourself on that list.Quote:
then you said: All the "it's America's fault, corporate greed/conspiracy" Bla-bla-bla is just background noise.
I never said it was all America's fault a fact I have repeated more than once and I don't like having my opinion dismissed as background noise.
How aboutQuote:
next you said: I'm proud that America always tries to do the right thing, we're not always successful but we are committed to trying. There will always be people that can not be honest enough with themselves to admit all that's right with my country. .
America does not always try to do the right thing. show me. Make me a list. what did they do right in El Salvador, anywhere in Central America or even south America. What have they done right in Iraq?
BILLIONS we send to Africa for Aids
BILLIONS sent world wide to fight hunger,poverty and sickness
BILLIONS given to Governments to help their people and they stand up and talk bad about us and we keep on "trying" to do the right thing.
There was a Tsunami a couple years back we gave BILLIONS & flew our choppers to deliver it.
We are always at the head of line to try and do the right thing.
No point beating a dead horse, I can't believe you asked such dumb question but I won't beat you over the head with it to hard:p
In Iraq we are "trying" to do the right thing, and we're in a mess.
I don't want to debate my honesty,so let's just leave this at, Thank-you for all your family has done.Quote:
NO YOU are not committed to doing anything. The young people of the arms forces are the ones that are committed. Have you or your children served their country? You are so ready to put "boots on the ground" in Africa are you or your children prepared to go?
Your judgment is so blinded by partisan hate that a good man (Bolton) can't help. Maybe someday you'll love the people of Darfur more than you Hate Bush.Quote:
BTW I am a very honest person I know exactly what is right with my country its called the Constitution it sure as hell isn't Michael Bolton or any other member of the bush administration.
For me great, I make money either way. For the people of Darfur our election results were their death sentence.Quote:
What's right with my country? Oh well I don't know... I think the elections went rather well don't you?
I'm not "flaming" you, we're debating, toughen up, listen up. I'm not going to hurt you :DQuote:
I don't want to get in a flaming war with you. You have your opinion and I have mine.
Vast government subsidies are sought after in the pursuit of arms trading.
US and European corporations receive enormous tax breaks and even lend money to other countries to purchase weapons from them. Therefore tax payers from these countries end up often unknowingly subsidizing arms sales.
While there are countless examples, a recent one that made a few news headlines was how Lockheed managed to get US subsidies to help sell a lot of fighter planes to Poland at the end of 2002/beginning of 2003. This was described as the biggest deal ever in Europe at that time.
U.S. arms corporations assiduously promote exports to maintain their profits. (Publicly, of course, they talk about the need to maintain jobs and the "defense industrial base.") These corporations are among the largest in the world, and they have tremendous political influence. Arms industry executives sit on federal advisory commissions at the Commerce, Defense and State Departments dealing with arms export policy issues, ensuring that their preferences are well known to administration policymakers. In addition, the industry provides hundreds of thousands of dollars annually to Congressional campaigns, ensuring that their lobbyists have access to Members of the House and Senate. They also pump cash into Presidential campaigns (usually to both sides, just to be safe), ensuring access at the very highest levels.
Using this clout, arms exporters have arranged it so that the American public pays $6-7 billion annually to market and finance sales of their product. On top of that, the public bears the costs of researching and developing the weapons in the first place. One of the corporate lobbyists' top priorities in past years was to have Congress repeal a statute which mandated that foreign customers be charged a fee to refund U.S. taxpayers for some of the R&D costs. The arms industry claimed that this feeâ??which has returned several hundred million dollars annually to the Treasuryâ??raises the price of the weapons and makes them less competitive.
The Clinton administration and the Republican 104th Congress both supported the repeal of this "recoupment" fee. The ASM Project fostered citizen and Congressional opposition to this plan by publicizing it widely through the media. However, in 1996, Congress effectively abolished the requirement that Foreign Military Sales include "recoupment fees" on weapons systems being exported around the world. More information on Recoupment.
The arms industry lobby continues to press for new financing (or easing of the regulations for current financing programs) to underwrite arms sales. Information we obtained from the Pentagon allowed us to expose the massive amount of outstanding military loans for which the U.S. government is liable, and the amount of these loans which are currently in default. More information on the recently created Defense Export Loan Guarantee program.
Industry has (effectively, thus far) sought to paint these subsidies as a matter of national security: If taxpayers don't subsidize arms sales, the industry might lose a deal to a foreign competitor; this would lead to the shutdown of a production line, thereby endangering America's very security. Never explained is why America needs to maintain surplus arms production lines in the first place. (If U.S. forces were still buying the weapon system, loss of foreign sales would not affect the continuation of the production line.)
What is it you like about Bolton? I am willing to listen I never saw him as appropriate for the job.
toughen up, listen up. I'm not going to hurt you
Oh yeah I'm afraid thats it. :rolleyes:
you never answered. Have you served in the military? How is answering that question debating your honesty? It is a fair question because everyone one I meet that supports the war either is not willing to serve or does not have a family member serving. SO I always ask. Why do you have a problem with answering?
You should not be willing to put other people children in harms way and not your own.
You know my son served and if he had to go back because of "issues" I sure the hell wouldn't be impressed if it were Somalia. It's one thing to take care of matters that need to be dealt with as apposed to those created by another "Western" country. Somalia is going to be a REAL shithole when/if they send troops.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCat
I find it ironic that people want Rumsfeld held accountable in front of a world court in Germany for acts at Abu Ghraib prison and other U.S.-run facilities but yet NOBODY calls for any French official for the actions in Algeria, Rwanda, and Sudan. A handfull of tortured victims VS. 800,000 dead Rwandans. UNREAL!
Have a good one!:jointsmile:
I don't want my son there either! No way.
I think anyone guilty of war crimes should be help accountable in the World court including the French.
I like Bolton Because he actually produced positive results and moved the program forward on 3 very important issuesQuote:
Originally Posted by BlueCat
I didn't want to debate me but yes I have served in the militaryQuote:
Have you served in the military? How is answering that question debating your honesty?
No its not, it the latest game by the left to silence the free speech rights of anyone they disagree with. I have never been on the Space Shuttle, but I have the RIGHT to an opinion about it.Quote:
It is a fair question
It is the Right of every American to support/oppose the war, it is their duty as citizens to be informed. The idea that any American can't support/oppose the war unless they/family served is a insulting dodge to the free speech rights of ALL Americans and a personal insult to EVERY veteran who served in defense of America and her Constitutional principles, by the left who only supports the 1A when they are being told what they want to hear.Quote:
because everyone one I meet that supports the war either is not willing to serve or does not have a family member serving. SO I always ask. Why do you have a problem with answering?
More nonsense from the left, free Americans can't have voice an opinion until they pass a test or meet some requirement,and only then can they exercise their rights, only then does their view count.Quote:
You should not be willing to put other people children in harms way and not your own.
You claimed in a previous post to "support" the Constitution, supporting it sometimes for some people isn't what its about.
Next time you read it, try to remember its talking about ALL Americans.
it seems any question that does not set right with you is a PLOY from the left. Fuck the left right shit. We are Americans first. I am not left or right. I am a mom caught in the middle, YOu can support any war you want just don't start talking about sending my kid to anymore wars so you can feel "like you are doing your patriotic duty.
It is very understandable not to trust ANYONE that is not willing to put themselves in the same situations you want to put our troops in. Its YOUR right to wage war with other people children?
No you haven't been on a space shuttle but last time I checked 20 year old kids were not getting their legs blown off riding the space shuttle.
If you want to debate war and not get personal don't talk to me. It is personal for me. I live it every time the phone rings.
Heres the education I got from my last call: You want to know what the medics call the brain matter that is stuck on their shoes "OIF". damn I got OIF all over my friends cd player and it stinks. SO I ask what the heck is that? It stands for Operation IRAQI freedom. Just lovely, brain matter and bone is operation iraqi freedom and it is a common term they use everyday. Imagine being covered in blood and shit so much it has a vernacular expression.
I have very little to say to arm chair soldiers. Sure it is your right to vote but I think you'd give that vote a lot of thought if it was YOUR kid.
Now you are talking about boots on the ground in the Sudan? DO you think we could finish the Iraqi war 1st?
It sickens me how you people feed on war to make yourselves feel like you are doing something good and then call it an American right. Honestly do you have kids? What are their ages oh thats right that is PERSONAL we have to keep this war at a distance wouldn't want to get personal wouldn't want to attach REAL faces.
I really have nothing else to "debate" with you. We are never going to agree on anything
Your "kid" volunteered just like both of mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCat
I will try one more time it's EVERYBODY'S right to have an opinion even if their Kids aren't over there.Quote:
It is very understandable not to trust ANYONE that is not willing to put themselves in the same situations you want to put our troops in. Its YOUR right to wage war with other people children?
I hope you don't share that with your son, he has enough to worry about. Knowing this mom can't handle it, is only 1 more thing to take his off whats important,staying alive, and doing the job.Quote:
If you want to debate war and not get personal don't talk to me. It is personal for me. I live it every time the phone rings.
I don't have to imagine to hardQuote:
Heres the education I got from my last call: You want to know what the medics call the brain matter that is stuck on their shoes "OIF". damn I got OIF all over my friends cd player and it stinks. SO I ask what the heck is that? It stands for Operation IRAQI freedom. Just lovely, brain matter and bone is operation iraqi freedom and it is a common term they use everyday. Imagine being covered in blood and shit so much it has a vernacular expression.
again I tried to avoid this because it wasn't germane to "our" discussion but it is my kids, and me before that.Quote:
I have very little to say to arm chair soldiers. Sure it is your right to vote but I think you'd give that vote a lot of thought if it was YOUR kid.
We need to re-read my post about "boots on the ground" I think you are a little confused.Quote:
Now you are talking about boots on the ground in the Sudan? DO you think we could finish the Iraqi war 1st?
Voicing your option is an American right, one worth defending at any time.Quote:
It sickens me how you people feed on war to make yourselves feel like you are doing something good and then call it an American right. Honestly do you have kids? What are their ages oh thats right that is PERSONAL we have to keep this war at a distance wouldn't want to get personal wouldn't want to attach REAL faces.
It's personal to me.
Yes we are, it is my sincerest hope that your son returns to you safely.:)Quote:
We are never going to agree on anything
well thanks. I hope they all come home safely.
One question: we were discussing this on the military moms site:
When ever a comment is made on the pure shit that our guys are going though someone else (usually someone with no family in the military) makes the comment Well he volunteered or he enlisted.
THe statement makes no sense. SO I guess that means it is ok for our sons to be killed or maimed because they enlisted they deserve to get their legs blown off? No one knows or can prepare for what they are seeing over there. I guess it is more noble to wait until the country is attacked and then wait again while the goverment re instates a draft...thats going to work real well.
They enlist because they trusted the country and our government NOT TO LIE to them. Volunteering to serve is an honorable thing it should not be used as a way to excuse what is happening to our guys today.
IF you really do have children in this war AND they are down range then I really really don't understand your opinions but that is fine. I never said you could not have an opinion what I said was I don't have to agree nor accept your opinion.
We are BOTH here on the cannabis site so that much we have in common.
So pass the PEACE pipe. :) maybe it will work magic.
All I have to say is
War is a very profitable business for the western world and as long as the west keeps backing sides in the rest of the world they will always have customers for their advanced "defense" systems.
By keeping the developing countries at each others throats and stirring shit up in foreign climes the west makes sure that they don't develop enough to threaten the wests financial grip on the world.
That is why this shit is happening .
PS I love the Goering quote
Thanks Psychocat I agree, years ago I starting reading about arms sells and corporate lobby involvement and I have been following it ever since.
War is big business. Do you read CorpWatch? Its a great site. :)
http://www.corpwatch.org/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Cat
I say that because both of mine knew exactly what they were doing. Against my advice they both left collage, I told them both this mess would be going on for decades and it would still be here after they graduated. It looks like I was right.
I don't believe they see that way, if you are talking WMD's, the solders & parents I talk to think it was gross incompetence, on a world wide scale 15-20 countries Intelligence services were telling OUR Intel that their Intel was the same. I'm not making excuses or trying to justify it, but thats the truth. The voices telling Bush there was no MD were a very small minority in 2002.Quote:
the country and our government NOT TO LIE to them.
When you go down the Government lie/conspiracy road the evidence isn't there, on WMD was a "lie". As a matter of fact I have never heard any solder say the Government "lied" to them about anything. The only people I hear solders call liars is recruiters.
When I hear from my son, him and his over there think they be successful in the end. Given time, they seem almost has worried about the people back home bailing out as they do what they're facing. I tell him to focus on staying alive and doing the job.
We are going to have troops in Iraq for years and years to come (regardless of which party is in charge) Unfortunately I think I am going to be right and he doesn't believe me, again
I quit toking when the kids came along, I only post in the "politics" section, I enjoy having to defend what and why I believe something.Quote:
We are BOTH here on the cannabis site so that much we have in common.
So pass the PEACE pipe. :) maybe it will work magic.
I will gladly make "peace" with you, I was only debating and exchanging ideas, if I offended you I'm sorry I saw nothing between us as personal.
I will gladly make "peace" with you, I was only debating and exchanging ideas, if I offended you I'm sorry I saw nothing between us as personal. I offer you the same cordiality!
My son seems to worry the most about them pulling out and leaving people there. You know how they are talking about having them go out with the Iraqi police and want to pull a large group of soldiers out? That would be such a big mistake. It is such a mess. You know I can't help but have distain for anybody in the Bush administration because I blame this horrible mess on them. The way it stands now if we leave, soldiers die and if we stay they die. We never should have gone there in the first place.
My son use to talk about staying the course and making it work too. I have never supported the war so I am his pinko commie mom :D
He doesn't say any of that now though, and most of the medical people are now pinko commies too they have had enough and feel they were decieved.
He is not fighting though and he works between both places so he sees both sets of casualties maybe that is why it sounds worse.
I think different military groups see it differently. It makes sense that the Medical people are seeing the more of the result of fighting.
Maybe the ground troops are seeing a different picture. Except he talks to a lot of injured guys and they are not saying things are going well either.
All I know is I wish it was over and he was home for Christmas. This is Christmas number 2 for me. How about you? Wouldn't it be nice if war took a break for the holidays? :)
Anyone who advocates war should read this.
http://christmasspirit.wordpress.com...2%80%99-found/
I found it to be very touching and I'm a cold hearted mofo.
George Washington beat the English, and their Germans soldiers known as "Hessians", at Trenton on Xmas day because the enemy troops let their guard down.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCat
Washington, along with many other Founding Fathers, was a Deist - and they weren't into Christianity :D
Best of luck for your son. I hope he's safe and home ASAP.
http://www.strike-the-root.com/colum...h/smith33.html
http://www.deism.com/washington.htm
General George Washington crossing the Delaware at the
Battle of Trenton on Christmas night 1776 by Emmanuel Leutze
Thanks Breukelen....:) Hey do you really read Nietzsche? He was really a bad ass wasn't he?:D :D I agreed with a lot of his writings "Untimely Meditations" and "All too Human" are my favorites. I disagree with the "Antichrist" essay though. I think religion is a necessity for the world. I agree it has caused a lot of heart ache but at the same time it gives people hope and is a coping mechanism for those that need it in really difficult times. Without it many people would have abandoned hope, like the Jewish people and all they endured. It was their religious convictions that helped them to cope. That is why I respect the religious beliefs of others even though I am agnostic. Also I see how some people behave in the name of God and shutter to think how they would behave if they believed there was no judgment day. At the same time it is rather amusing that there are more Christians in prison than atheist yet atheist are suppose to be the ungodly sinning heathen monsters. :D
As far as the founding fathers I agree with you. It amazes me how many people talk about our nation's founders and how religious they were when it is not true. How many times have you heard the One nation under God statement? The founding fathers had the wisdom to know the importance of the separation of church and state. Jefferson even had all references to Christ's miracles removed from his bible and Franklin said church was just plain boring.
Thanks for this psychocat I enjoyed reading it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCat
Hi BlueCat,
Yes, I've read most of his stuff, and he's a great thinker and writer, but I have trouble with his theory of eternal recurrence. That's the thing to say when you want to impress philosophy majors, profs, etc., lol. :cool:
As far as his views on religion, he said in one of his writings that you have to really have been hurt by it to feel the way he did. I'd have to agree with that. As you probably know, his father was a minister, and he came from a long line of clergymen.