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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
im not even answering a BS post anymore...
This thread was addressed to scientists... not athiest theorists.
you arent even addressing the important point here...
just chiming in on small details here and there in an attempt to impress someone with your theoretical BS on how biochemistry must involve chance...
well your not impressin me...
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NextLineIsMine
Anyways what made god?
a good and hard question, i believe god exists, ouside of time and space, but I AM ADMITTING that this is a BELIEF, i can't prove it to you, obviously
but everyone, please consider the harder question, and this is it: EITHER you have an infinite creator, OR you have infinite MATTER
big bang is clever because you give everyone a picture of "nothing" exploding, but it's not supposed to be nothing, it's supposed to be an incredibly small, incredible massive singularity of matter, and it exploded; the theory works for people because it puts matter into such a small amount that you're allowed to forget about it, but what happened BEFORE the singularity???? why did it happen the way it did?
so, for there to be existance, you've got to have something infinite, either matter or a "god"
now why is god the way he is? where did he come from? why are things teh way they are? these are questions that i just have no answer for
i believe certain things, but i have the humility (yes i'm arrogant enough to claim to have humility :) ) enough to entertain doubt, to REALIZE WITHOUT A DOUBT, that i don't know everything, in fact i know so little it's practically nothign
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderbear
i believe in a god, but i also will admit that i cannot prove that god exists; i do look around the world and think "this looks like design", the beauty of it, beyond the biological i see things in human nature that to me echo the bible
now, given infinate chance it's understandable that "anything" could happen, atleast anything that is possible; whether it's actually possible to create a living thing from nonliving molecules is not for sure; the law of biogenesis says it's not possible, but again that's just a "law" trying to define what we see
i respect the humility of realizing that one cannot truly imagine god completely when we comprehend so little about our own world; i do believe god has reached out to us though, personally
I'm not trying to preach God... believe what you want, you know? :stoned:
All im saying is that we had to have been designed... were just too intricate to just one day become us all of a sudden in a big bang...
I'm just giving that "designer" his props because he must obviously be a "genius" (God or not ;) ) and a master chemist.
Who knows. i know the possibilities are endless. God could be a group of beings from an alien civilization across the universe... i dont know... no one knows.
ALL I SAID IS HE MUSTA BEEN ONE HELL OF A CHEMIST.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
i wasn't trying to say what you were trying to preach one way or the other, i was stating my own standpoint
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
First of all, I'd like to say once and for all that the Watchbox analogy is bogus. You even earlier described it as "shaking a trillion pieces in the box" to compare it to life. There's no part in evolutionary theory that suggests we took the billions of parts of our genetic code and shook them all in a "box" till it just magically fell together.
Now I believe the reason Polymerize was questioning your "scientific method" is because you're making mass leaps in logic, which essentially are:
Life is amazingly complex
we can't explain how it could be that complex
therefor god did it
All you have is a mystery, the knowledge that some process (even the work of god) created the complexity that exists in life today. Then, rather than exploring some possible ideas about these processes, or excepting that you don't have an explanation, you just give the credit to god by default. "can't explain it? god did it!". The idea of an intelligence creating complexity is only a hypothesis, a proposed explanation for the mystery. Just because you lack other explanations, just because humanity can't yet explain everything that happens in the universe and how every process works and exists, doesn't mean your "intelligent designer" hypothesis is suddenly proven right just because we don't know of a better one yet.
Intelligent design doesn't work. All it does is say "I don't know how to explain it", then takes the old theistic texts that claim a god did it, and say "well that proves it". But it proves nothing, just because the explanation fits doesn't mean it's right. I could explain life as existing because some unknown trans-dimensional fluctuation works through processes that affect molecules in a way so as to create the beginnings of life, which could then grow in complexity through evolutionary processes, meanwhile being assisted by these random yet beneficial fluctuations. But I can't say that's proven right, I can only propose it as a hypothesis.
People are obviously mislead, and in this respect ignorant, when they think a non-god universe means nothing but trillions and trillions of accidents all mistakenly happened so as to coincidentally lead to the same end product.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantFUEGO
same with large numbers... If you shook the box for a trillian billion years straight, doesnt mean that the watch is going to assemble itself.
Theres a chance... but it doesnt mean that chance is definate..
oh no, its definate
you forget, time doesnt end (or at least i hope not)
if you have the ability to shake that box till the end of time, its definate
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
You have been making a solid point throughout, Fuego. And I've been following this thread since earlier. I'm very tired tonight and very emotionally exhausted, which means I'm not really even smart enough to reply with any skill. But what speaks to me--and don't anyone feel the need to argue here; this is just me expressing what I've been thinking as I've been pondering the miracles of biochem and life and molecules and DNA Fuego referenced--is that it makes me very happy to think about the mysteries of the scientific/biochemical universe having had a designer. I'm fully aware that this is likely just me wanting to make sense of something I can't understand. It's also me struggling spiritually right now because of life-and-death circumstances in my life. But I find the idea of a grand design a comforting and pleasing thought. I who was raised to be a doubter and a questioner, a don't-believe-it-till-it's-proven empiricist, and, essentially, a heathen.
When I look at cells and cell division. When I look at how genetic information makes us into what we are. When I look at adenine, guanine, cytosine and thymine and how they work together to build people. When I consider human reproduction from haploid and diploid chromosomes to conception to birth. It pleases me to think of these wonderful things as being part of a grand plan, whether I truly buy that intellectually or not. On an emotional/spiritual level, it gives me peace right now.
I've followed you well, Fuego, and I'm glad you had the nerve to stay with this. I'll probably get flamed clear out into next month by the hard-shell scientists. But I know why you think this way about biochem because I do the same thing. Whether we're right or not isn't going to be something we'll ever figure out. I'm sure of that. But I still like thinking about it all.
Keep up the science study, Fuego. I'm glad you wrote this thread. I've enjoyed it.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderbear
i wasn't trying to say what you were trying to preach one way or the other, i was stating my own standpoint
I wasnt attacking you bro i agree with what your saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdevious
First of all, I'd like to say once and for all that the Watchbox analogy is bogus. You even earlier described it as "shaking a trillion pieces in the box" to compare it to life. There's no part in evolutionary theory that suggests we took the billions of parts of our genetic code and shook them all in a "box" till it just magically fell together.
Now I believe the reason Polymerize was questioning your "scientific method" is because you're making mass leaps in logic, which essentially are:
Life is amazingly complex
we can't explain how it could be that complex
therefor god did it
All you have is a mystery, the knowledge that some process (even the work of god) created the complexity that exists in life today. Then, rather than exploring some possible ideas about these processes, or excepting that you don't have an explanation, you just give the credit to god by default. "can't explain it? god did it!". The idea of an intelligence creating complexity is only a hypothesis, a proposed explanation for the mystery. Just because you lack other explanations, just because humanity can't yet explain everything that happens in the universe and how every process works and exists, doesn't mean your "intelligent designer" hypothesis is suddenly proven right just because we don't know of a better one yet.
Intelligent design doesn't work. All it does is say "I don't know how to explain it", then takes the old theistic texts that claim a god did it, and say "well that proves it". But it proves nothing, just because the explanation fits doesn't mean it's right. I could explain life as existing because some unknown trans-dimensional fluctuation works through processes that affect molecules in a way so as to create the beginnings of life, which could then grow in complexity through evolutionary processes, meanwhile being assisted by these random yet beneficial fluctuations. But I can't say that's proven right, I can only propose it as a hypothesis.
People are obviously mislead, and in this respect ignorant, when they think a non-god universe means nothing but trillions and trillions of accidents all mistakenly happened so as to coincidentally lead to the same end product.
You make a good point... only I'm not trying to explain how life came together.
No one knows this.
All we can do is observe and study our surrounding and learn as much about it as we can... which is what humans have been doing for thousands of years.
I reiterate... im not preaching god... just a designer of life on earth..... and he/she/it is an incredible chemist.
Thats all
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdevious
First of all, I'd like to say once and for all that the Watchbox analogy is bogus. You even earlier described it as "shaking a trillion pieces in the box" to compare it to life. There's no part in evolutionary theory that suggests we took the billions of parts of our genetic code and shook them all in a "box" till it just magically fell together.
Now I believe the reason Polymerize was questioning your "scientific method" is because you're making mass leaps in logic, which essentially are:
Life is amazingly complex
we can't explain how it could be that complex
therefor god did it
All you have is a mystery, the knowledge that some process (even the work of god) created the complexity that exists in life today. Then, rather than exploring some possible ideas about these processes, or excepting that you don't have an explanation, you just give the credit to god by default. "can't explain it? god did it!". The idea of an intelligence creating complexity is only a hypothesis, a proposed explanation for the mystery. Just because you lack other explanations, just because humanity can't yet explain everything that happens in the universe and how every process works and exists, doesn't mean your "intelligent designer" hypothesis is suddenly proven right just because we don't know of a better one yet.
Intelligent design doesn't work. All it does is say "I don't know how to explain it", then takes the old theistic texts that claim a god did it, and say "well that proves it". But it proves nothing, just because the explanation fits doesn't mean it's right. I could explain life as existing because some unknown trans-dimensional fluctuation works through processes that affect molecules in a way so as to create the beginnings of life, which could then grow in complexity through evolutionary processes, meanwhile being assisted by these random yet beneficial fluctuations. But I can't say that's proven right, I can only propose it as a hypothesis.
People are obviously mislead, and in this respect ignorant, when they think a non-god universe means nothing but trillions and trillions of accidents all mistakenly happened so as to coincidentally lead to the same end product.
good points; what you're saying is really what i'm saying when i say "i can't prove what i believe"
i respect y'all's other viewpoints very much, and am interested hearing them; i've found that as i've grown older, though i still believe what i believe, i recognize more and more my own ignorance
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
You have been making a solid point throughout, Fuego. And I've been following this thread since earlier. I'm very tired tonight and very emotionally exhausted, which means I'm not really even smart enough to reply with any skill. But what speaks to me--and don't anyone feel the need to argue here; this is just me expressing what I've been thinking as I've been pondering the miracles of biochem and life and molecules and DNA Fuego referenced--is that it makes me very happy to think about the mysteries of the scientific/biochemical universe having had a designer. I'm fully aware that this is likely just me wanting to make sense of something I can't understand. It's also me struggling spiritually right now because of life-and-death circumstances in my life. But I find the idea of a grand design a comforting and pleasing thought. I who was raised to be a doubter and a questioner, a don't-believe-it-till-it's-proven empiricist, and, essentially, a heathen.
When I look at cells and cell division. When I look at how genetic information makes us into what we are. When I look at adenine, guanine, cytosine and thymine and how they work together to build people. When I consider human reproduction from haploid and diploid chromosomes to conception to birth. It pleases me to think of these wonderful things as being part of a grand plan, whether I truly buy that intellectually or not. On an emotional/spiritual level, it gives me peace right now.
I've followed you well, Fuego, and I'm glad you had the nerve to stay with this. I'll probably get flamed clear out into next month by the hard-shell scientists. But I know why you think this way about biochem because I do the same thing. Whether we're right or not isn't going to be something we'll ever figure out. I'm sure of that. But I still like thinking about it all.
Keep up the science study, Fuego. I'm glad you wrote this thread. I've enjoyed it.
I love you.
Thats exactly what im trying to say.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
all this thinking is hurting my little brain
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingskullballs
oh no, its definate
you forget, time doesnt end (or at least i hope not)
if you have the ability to shake that box till the end of time, its definate
Yeah its definate mathematically... ;)
How are you gonna say time is infinite? Time isnt even an actual physical thing. This is like those mathematicians that claim that time travel is possible just because you can measure time in a few physics equations.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
i thought time was physical, a matter of space and gravity, or some such thing......or somethin
btw: i've no idea what i'm talking about, anyone know what i'm trying to say?
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Time is a method of measuring our days so humans can keep relative track of their lives.
Time can't exist... its just a measurement of elapsed sunrises and sunsets.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
i heard different........that you could actually measure time
like if you send someone around the universe and back and they don't age???
......................anyone have an answer to that?
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time
wiki on time, since wikipedia is the great bastion of all eternal knowledge and wisdom :)
i guess it's all debatable like everything else, big surprise
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderbear
i heard different........that you could actually measure time
like if you send someone around the universe and back and they don't age???
......................anyone have an answer to that?
thats a pretty crazy theory...
Figure out a way to go to the end and back and prove it...
you'll be the next age bill gates... a total billionaire/genius.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
well, i do believe that time is a created aspect, not infinite, but finite; but yeah, i'm not going to be PROVING anythign anytime soon :)
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantFUEGO
Maybe you can explain how we on earth see 6 billion year old light.
6 billion year old light would be 6 billion lightyears away.
No, it would have been 6 billion lightyears away 6 billion years ago. Not a complex concept, we see light which is coming to us, not going away.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
what's the whole thing with the "old light" is it that the light we're getting is of a certain wavelength that we know that it came from a long ways away?
or the light reflected from far away planets?
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Wavelength of light determines it's color, not it's age. I think maybe you're refering to light which comes from distant stars having a downshift in wave length do to the fact those stars are moving away from us more rapidly than close (in relative terms) stars. The same affect can be observed listening to the sound of a car as it approachs and then passes you. This is called the doppler affect.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
the light thing is lightyears. its how far light travels in a year. i dont know how far it is but light travels at 300000000 m/s or somethin around there. so if we were seeing 6 billion light year old light, that means that it was emitted 6 billion years ago or you could say there was a real big bang about 6 billion years ago. and you are asking everyone for "scientific evidence" because youre a scientist, but wheres your scientific evidence? so you told us how dna works or whatever. that doesnt prove what youre sayin. and if you think, if there was really that big of a bang, how many little pieces would come flyin out of there just like earth. and all of those little pieces have been around for 6 billion years. id say theres a good chance that on at least one of those little pieces, everything just happened to fall in order. cause the probability is pretty small. but is it really smaller than 1/(# of pieces from big bang) and evolution is pretty amazing too.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Light travels 186,000 miles per second.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue
Agnosticism ftw.
hell yes.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
You have been making a solid point throughout, Fuego. And I've been following this thread since earlier. I'm very tired tonight and very emotionally exhausted, which means I'm not really even smart enough to reply with any skill. But what speaks to me--and don't anyone feel the need to argue here; this is just me expressing what I've been thinking as I've been pondering the miracles of biochem and life and molecules and DNA Fuego referenced--is that it makes me very happy to think about the mysteries of the scientific/biochemical universe having had a designer. I'm fully aware that this is likely just me wanting to make sense of something I can't understand. It's also me struggling spiritually right now because of life-and-death circumstances in my life. But I find the idea of a grand design a comforting and pleasing thought. I who was raised to be a doubter and a questioner, a don't-believe-it-till-it's-proven empiricist, and, essentially, a heathen.
When I look at cells and cell division. When I look at how genetic information makes us into what we are. When I look at adenine, guanine, cytosine and thymine and how they work together to build people. When I consider human reproduction from haploid and diploid chromosomes to conception to birth. It pleases me to think of these wonderful things as being part of a grand plan, whether I truly buy that intellectually or not. On an emotional/spiritual level, it gives me peace right now.
I've followed you well, Fuego, and I'm glad you had the nerve to stay with this. I'll probably get flamed clear out into next month by the hard-shell scientists. But I know why you think this way about biochem because I do the same thing. Whether we're right or not isn't going to be something we'll ever figure out. I'm sure of that. But I still like thinking about it all.
Keep up the science study, Fuego. I'm glad you wrote this thread. I've enjoyed it.
straight from the most intelligent, logical, and well educated person on this site. im laughing my ass off. im so highh.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
I am certain of one thing :
Those that believe they have all the answers are simply deluding themselves and to never question is to die.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
This is crazy...
i should have never posted this... people are jumping down my throat accusing me of saying things i didnt.
your attempts to shut me down by placing words in my mouth isnt working.
Im not trying to PROVE anything... anyone who read all my posts would know that very clearly.
Ive reiterated myself almost 7 times throughout the whole thread and im not going to do it again.
Oh and if there was a bing bang.... explain to me... mr genius.... how light is traveling towards us? That was a ridiculous statement that wasnt thought out, because, if everything flew out of one point...then light would only be traveling out.
What we see is the light traveling towards us from distants stars that are traveling in all different directions for whatever reason (explosions, gravity....since theres no matter to cause friction in space).
Birdgirl is very educated you are right... laugh all you want the truth is you know very little about biology or else I am positive that you would atleast accept what is being said here.
What makes us so special?? why arent there organisms that have adapted to survive on mars or even saturn?? they've been around for "billions of years" also... they've had plenty of time also.
This was never meant to be an arguement.... or i woulda posted it in a different forum..
You all need to really take a moment and think about what im trying to say. Read a little about genetics if you have to. Learn a couple things about microbiology and then youll realize that a cell (which is composed of ONLY atoms and no brain) performs all its cellular functions because of one reason.. The PHYSICS of what is made out of.
Now your trying to me tell that you think that our matter wasnt designed to work this way?
It just happened by chance??? =\
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue
Agnosticism ftw.
I am not agnostic at all... Thats a perfect example of someone who cant think outside the box
it doesnt have to be either or... possibilities are endless as ive been explaining.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantFUEGO
I am not agnostic at all... Thats a perfect example of someone who cant think outside the box
it doesnt have to be either or... possibilities are endless as ive been explaining.
It's pretty obvious you're not agnostic =/
I can think outside the box plenty.
You know what else is endless? The debate on whether god exists, it can't be proven, so why dwell. You obviously posted your original post for a reason, what that may be, only you know. I think you posted it to at least try and convince someone, or else what's the point? You're not convincing me though. Learn all the microbiology you want, preach it to whomever you choose, but if people don't agree with you, then you should just accept it.
Now, back to cannabis smoking :)
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue
It's pretty obvious you're not agnostic =/
I can think outside the box plenty.
You know what else is endless? The debate on whether god exists, it can't be proven, so why dwell. You obviously posted your original post for a reason, what that may be, only you know. I think you posted it to at least try and convince someone, or else what's the point? You're not convincing me though. Learn all the microbiology you want, preach it to whomever you choose, but if people don't agree with you, then you should just accept it.
Now, back to cannabis smoking :)
your absolutely right about convincing others... which is not my intention...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantFUEGO
i was sitting in my genetics class today and i realized...
God (or whatever creator you believe in) must have been one hell of a chemist.
Is anyone else as fascinated as I am by how life works?
I was merely sharing my fascinations...
Unfortunately... some people decided to chime in with their little factoids trying to prove ME wrong, and this led to everyting but a discussion on what was originally proposed.
It just upsets me when all im trying to do is share a fascination of mine and then people refute me with statements that are TOTALLY irrelevant to what were talking about here.
I mean, its obvious that im not just babbling out a bunch of bullshit... so if you want to debate it (which i love doing :) ), atleast come up with something that has some relevance to the topic... and dont put words in my mouth in an attempt to make me look like a dumbass...
Not saying you did that, rogue...;)
Peace
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Good shit man, life is fascinating.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
I agree, I think life is too complex to be a coincidence.
After all... we all know that life tends towards chaos (principle of entropy) -
But we also know that there are all kinds of complex forms of life everywhere disobeying the law of entropy every second to stay alive (including humans)
So how does that fit together? I say God made us. Who knows which type of god that is, or if any of those religious texts are for real, but I think there are too many beautiful and complicated things in the world to have been just some random freak accident under nobody's control.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
some say that life arrived here in comets shorty after the earth cooled. tiny microscopic single celled organisims piggybacked in the ice of a comet Land into the ocean.
another theroy is that some of the basic needs for life were here. At the time most of the solar system was still chaotic, and a piece of mars that had broke off in another event slammed into the earth witch caused a catalismic(sp) explosion. Releasing new compounds into the air and water.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Hume: "Thus, although God may have made man in his own image, the concept of God is made in man's own image."
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
*come closerrrr*...
*cough-weeze*
*closeerrrr*
the secret to life...is....
*cough weeze*
*death rattle, slump*
WHAT IS IT?!
GOD DAMN IT!
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantFUEGO
Oh and if there was a bing bang.... explain to me... mr genius.... how light is traveling towards us? That was a ridiculous statement that wasnt thought out, because, if everything flew out of one point...then light would only be traveling out. .
What makes us so special?? why arent there organisms that have adapted to survive on mars or even saturn?? they've been around for "billions of years" also... they've had plenty of time also.
I assume that's aimed at me, so I'll try to use small words for you, light from distant stars has nothing to do with the big bang, except to show that the universe must be old enough to allow it to travel to us. On the other hand the universe shows very uniform background x-ray radiation, no matter where you point a radio telescope. Where do you suggest this radiation comes from, if not from the big bang? As for the second question, it appears likely there was life on mars, back when it had an atmosphere. Have you not at some point in your biology education learned life, at least as we understand it, requires liquid water? And that complex, multicellular life requires oxygen? Your argument is often called the "strong anthropomorphic principal" (sorry, big words, but unavoidable). That is to say that because we see a universe in which we can exist, it must therefore have been created for our benefit. The counter argument is simply that we should not be surpized to see around us conditions which allow our existence, to the contrary, it would be very odd indeed should we see otherwise.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Just cause I like it I have to reference Monty Python.
Galaxy Song Lyrics
Artist: Monty Python
Album: The Meaning Of Life
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.
The last 2 lines require an honest response and from what I've seen I couldn't agree more.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantFUEGO
Unfortunately... some people decided to chime in with their little factoids trying to prove ME wrong...
I mean, its obvious that im not just babbling out a bunch of bullshit... so if you want to debate it (which i love doing :) ), atleast come up with something that has some relevance to the topic...
and dont put words in my mouth in an attempt to make me look like a dumbass...
"You know what I hate? When people try to join conversations, as opposed to just sitting there passively and listening. I mean, whenever I go to church do you see me challenging the pastor on issues? Hell no.
We can debate, sure. But you're not allowed to point out the flaws in my argument, that's just unfair. And if you do so, I'll ignore your points by claiming their not even relevant."
I don't think anyone else has contributed to making you look like a dumbass man. Take a little personal responsibility.
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To the science majors/scientists/science geeks out there...
Clearly he wasn't looking for debate, but for a bunch of people to say "Yeah, man, I'll bet you're right."