Honestly I really don't know about Buddhism, besides that Buddha cleary enjoys food and thai sticks.
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Honestly I really don't know about Buddhism, besides that Buddha cleary enjoys food and thai sticks.
my proof is simple. The signs of the last days are here. thoses who are awake can see it. All that we see happening today has been prophecy. All this is fortold to us. I keep on the watch. I see the signs around us and i know the hour draws near. Something big will happen to False religion Soon. The political beast is ready to Kill babylon the grate Harlot, who has misslead the nations with false prophets and false teachings. This WILL HAPPEN. Jehovah God's Judgement by means of Jesus Christ Will Happen. If you can not see that the political beast is controlled by satan and will die with this system. Woe to you Earth, for you will be held to account for you Deeds.
Its funny to hear people say things like this and it sounds like you are quite a negative person about the future of your supposed "non believers" At the end of the day I am amazed to see how a probably otherwise normal person such as you can be so consumed with this religious non-sense. No sensible thing was said there just your ramblings of an outdated thought process, the worst part of it all is, is that you probably discrimate against non believers such as myself and probably only associate with religious people. Then again I don't know you and can't say that for fact so I hope I'm not offending you if your not like that, but most heavily religious people I've known are. Honestly I just want people like yourself to maybe realize the flaws in your beliefs and if not change at least stop preaching it to people like this because you sound foolish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogith
Actually buddha only ate 1 meal a day, whatever was given to him as charity while he did his work. The obesity portrayed in buddha statues is a symbole which makes him appear as a "kingly" figure.Quote:
Originally Posted by FireyBudBurner
"Better safe than sorry."
I have seen this in two posts on this thread and can't ignore that. I felt the same way when I first began to question god's existence and if he exists if he is truely as "good" as people believe. Anyway, I wasn't sure if what I was being told was right, but at the same time I had been told how I will rot in hell if I so much as think god may be a myth (slightly exagerated).
If you are a taking a "better safe than sorry" stance on the issue of god, than you can't really believe in him. You can know there is a god in your heart, but other than that, there isn't much argument for the existence of god. Believers try and come up with scientific counter points to a "fact" an athiest or agnostic may give. The truth is we have facts, not facts about everything, but scientific evidence about some things. Belief in god has none of that. Now I am not saying belief in god is idiotic, but stop trying to give proof. If you believe in your heart he exists and it is improving your life than wonderful. However anyone that can make the statement "better safe than sorry" isn't a true believer. It appears to me it is just praying to something your not sure about just in case.
Yea I actually know sadartha was actually a skinny man and ate little, but the the fat golden Buhhda Buddha Buddha at chinese resturants that Americans are familar with is what I was talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdevious
have you read the bible ? do you know what jesus fortold for the last days? i'm saying thoses who have read can look at the world today and see the signs.
Remember Y2K? Point made. Same situation here.
people are wrong. god is right. y2k was retarted
I don't mean to go off on rants on you religious folk but I know a lot of people who to me just seem brainwashed by it and even though they lead good normal lifes, they go on there little rants every now and then and it can sometimes look really non-sensical especially in front of atheists/people.
your right. people need to prove to them self. if not it's all but blind faithQuote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
You guys keep asking for proof. I already told you that the proof is in me. Just because you think I don't have proof, doesn't mean I don't. It's not that I don't have proof of him, cause I do, it's that you don't believe me. Cause the proof is in the pudding!!!!!
By the way, the bible doesn't say that the earth is 6 thousand years old. It says that the big bang theory happened 6 thousand years ago. For the big bang theory to take place, the substance was already present. How can you prove that the Earth did not evolve six thousand years ago? What machine will tell you that it didn't happen? Can you measure evolution? Do you know when and how much it evolves? Why has it not evolved since his word?
SInce you don't know me, you are taking a giant leap there JE. I don't need to prove my belief in anything, nor would I even try to prove that God exists, I was saying that "better safe than sorry " merely to assuage the nonbelievers. I'm not here to convert anybody. I know what's in my heart and in my head, you don't. Don't tar me with any brush. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
Now, if someone wants me to try and convert them, Ill be happy to :D
Damn can't you delete a message on this board or am I just blind?
I'm guessing you are one of the people who said it. I didn't mean it as an attack on you, the only point I'm trying to make is by saying "better safe than sorry" it appears to an outsider like me that ones faith isn't as strong as anyone elses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mud Dauber
Also by what I wrote, your argument for god is the only real one. You know in your heart, that is great, I'm not going to argue against that. My problem is with those who simply revert everything back to the bible. I guess that has to do with faith as well though just now in a book...
I think you can only delete a post from a tread you started.
The "better safe than sorry" argument is known as "Pascal's Wager" and is a position postulated by the philosopher Pascal as a way of solving Descarte's dualism. It's not a new position. He says that one ought to believe because you have everything to gain, and nothing to lose by doing so. A rather cynical position in my view, but there you go. Kolgirth there is no point in you quoting the Bible to advance your argument. Unless one is a believer in the first place it's nothing but a story. It's like me producing the Q'uran or the Tibetan Book Of The Dead as evidence that Christianity is wrong. Unless you have faith in that particular text then it means nothing. It means everything to you as a believer, and nothing to me as an atheist. Instead of posting links to various scripture why not join in the debate yourself? I'm not interested in anything the Bible has to say except from a historical viewpoint. Athiesm gives me great strength. We're alone in the world, and you know what? It doesn't scare me one bit, it excites me, and I'm glad to be alive.
im going to give you one very good reason to believe in god, followed by another one which flakey new age developmentally deprived flakes will counter with some shit about transgressing the laws of the universe.
1. if there is no god, okay. there's no god. what does that mean? absolutley nothing. but if there is a god, and you've chosen to live an unethical life style and denounced your faith... well, isnt that just a bitch. it's a win-win situation really.
2. cause and effect. god is the cause of all causes. but what caused god to exsist? let me ask you this: what causes possobilities to exsist?
NOTHING. because they dont really exsist. theyre just possobilities. there is no cause, because it isnt an effect.
what's the possobility of possobility not being possobility, but instead trasngressing possobility to be exsistence.
when you look at the logic of that, it goes hand in hand with cause and effect.
i'll try and rephrase in simpler terms. if there is a ball floating in mid air, not moving. just still in motion floating. it could still move if something moved it. not that it would, because its surrounded by nothing. but the thought of it happening is fathomable, because of chance in itself. not that it ever would or anything.
there is no cause for possobility, because possobility is already there.
on a personal note, ive found most atheists are atheists because they are deprived in some way or another and cant fathom that god would leave them in the corner. so they start looking to outside answers like, how is it possible for there to be a god and there are countless hypothesis floating around out there about god and his non exsistence. the bottom line is, nothing, i mean NOTHING transgresses cause and effect. thermodynamics, string theory, none of that transgresses an original cause. god is the cause of all cause and effect, to say the least.
All of this is either basic philosophy or doesn't even translate into a sensical commentary. It sounds like you trying to put as many big words as you can into one sentence to validate a point that you cannot make on your side of the arguement, proof of exsistence or even a decent theory. This is a blob of nothing and the way you take a shot at atheists at the end is a little sad. I mean are you that furasted that people think outside the box and don't worship an outdated book of fictional stories. I am an athiest for one reason, organized religion and almost all religion relies and nothing more than faith, no fact, no substance just someone else telling you, "hey I believe this plus be got a book that says its true, where the hell have you been"Quote:
Originally Posted by idontgivenames
Also the Big Bang theory deffinately does not apply within the last 6000 years, if you have ever read it you know that the big bang theory implies that the world was created millions of years ago by a random sequence of events that rendered a planet capable of holding lifeforms. Along with the right conditions somewhere along the line a tiny random carbon based bacterium was created that could sustain life through photosynthesis. That theory completely negates the chance that the Bible is the real deal.
Sorry, but that's not a very good reason because it just opens another kettle of worms. So you decide ya might as well not chance it and become a good baptist, then get to the Perily gates and find out they're only letting Church of Christ in. ..or God really was down with the Catholics so you're a heretic because you took up with the Mormons....well, isn't that just a bitch.Quote:
1. if there is no god, okay. there's no god. what does that mean? absolutley nothing. but if there is a god, and you've chosen to live an unethical life style and denounced your faith... well, isnt that just a bitch. it's a win-win situation really.
Two thousand protestant religions and growing, not even counting the thousands of others, and you can see that playing the win-win odds game suddenly becomes a theological lottery.
The way I figure it there seems to be only two answers to this question. Either there is a God and he could care less if you believe in him or not;(because if he did it's only logical that he would straighten all this mess out himself)... or, there isn't a God and it really doesn't matter.
The balloon moving stuff when right over my head...sorry about that.
"I'm guessing you are one of the people who said it. I didn't mean it as an attack on you, the only point I'm trying to make is by saying "better safe than sorry" it appears to an outsider like me that ones faith isn't as strong as anyone elses."
That's why I use this in my defense when I'm asked to consider logic in a "Does God Exist" debate. Where is the logic in choosing death over life? If what I'm saying is true, why risk it? You must be VERY confident to go against logic in this case. You guys could keep preaching, cause it's comforting to hear that if I'm wrong, I'll end up with you. I'm glad to hear that you believe everyone is going to a place where there is no pain. Oh really, then why does everyone fear death? I'm gonna use some logic here. I'm gonna put myself in a win win situation and believe in God. And do you know the way there? Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. To each his own. Peace
Yea the whole better safe than sorry thing isn't even worth me typing anymore about it, sillyness.
I agree that it would be great to spend an eternity in complete bliss, but if that isn't the case I've come to except the possibility of just cease to exist. I'm not worried one way or another, if I die and there is a divine entity that is responsible for all this, I'm not worried about eternal damnation. I'm what a good "christian" should be, minus the belief in god. I'm not worried if there is a god and I'm wrong. I don't think he his so self centered he needs me some peon (sp) of his creation bowing down before him. If there is something that intelligent and that divine, it makes no sense to me it would be that egotistical or even concerned. I'm agnostic, I don't have enough facts to make a final decision, but I'm not going to spend a life time worshiping something I'm not sure exists. From my stand point I can lead a good life as I see fit. No need to worry about masterbation or premarital sex, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pass That Shit
Honestly, if there is a god, and he feels he needs to be worshiped and is going to "punish" me for lack of faith than I don't care to ever meet him.
Nice final sentence JE, very true, blunt a too the point.
I couldn't follow the strange logic of your argument "Idontgivenames" However, your cheap shot at atheists leads me to believe there probably isn't anything worth finding. As an atheist I take exception to your assertion that I must have led a deprived existence. I certainly don't feel left in the corner, I'm out there looking for answers. The answers to life's questions are to be found (for my part anyway) in scientific reasoning, and not in some dusty old book appropriated by people who wished to exercise control over the populace. That's all religion is to me, a way of controlling people. Having said that I accept that religious faith offers great comfort to people, and I will not begrudge that. Please, respect my view as an atheist as I respect your faith (whatever it may be) I don't ask you to become an atheist as it matters not at all to me, why is it so important that I follow your faith? There is no evidence that God exists, none whatsoever. The only evidence is The Bible, and that really doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's a matter of faith, and I have none in God. I believe in humanity and science. That is what drives the wheel of progress, not God. I agree with Jagged Edge here. If God exists then why is he so keen for me to worhip him? All this guff about a "jealous God" is so obviously a ruse to keep people frightened of thinking for themselves. Can't you see that? I guess not...
You still havent answered my question, Iggy :)
Im actually one of the Society of Friends, Quakers to you all :thumbsup: I'm not here to argue or convert, unless you want me to :D I will say this, though, as it is my opinion, even though its probably setting me up for massive abuse (ha ha ) - I believe that the opposite of faith is disbelief. Faith is natural, disbelief is willful. The spiritual state of faith is love and acceptance. The spiritual state of disbelief is desperation.
But, to each his own, it doesnt matter to me what other people think.
God created the Earth and heavens in six days.
Science says it took a fair bit longer than that.
There's something for you to be chewing over for the time being whilst I think of something else.
I can counter that by saying what is a day to God ? Is it 24 hours ? Is it a million years ? Who knows ?
I prefer to think of time as an abstract notion ;)
Keep putting your faith and trust in science for answers. The unbeliever puts his faith in man (science) and the believer puts his faith in God. We'll all have to wait to see what's to come. Keep in mind that science will not help us "if" there is a judgment to come.
By the way, God is outside of time. He created time. By creating the Sun and the Moon he gave us the two lights that we use to calculate time. Science DOES NOT disprove the timing and manner in which things were created. Soon time will be a thing of the past, the day will come when the sun will NEVER go down. There shall be no night there.
Let's stop the non-sense about the christian being the one who wants to convert the unbeliever. The unbeliever feels the same exact way about the christian, so let's not kid ourselves. We are all in the same boat here. Just because we're not in spiritual agreement, we don't have to judge who is the better person. I think this forum is for us to "share" our "beliefs", and to ask and answer questions others may have.
amen to that :rasta:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pass That Shit
Here's the rub, it seems as if Christians will happily quote sections of The Bible at folk all day long to back up a belief system. Yet when I ask about the six days to build heaven and earth it becomes an abstract concept, free to be interpreted in any way that suits?
It's either the word of God, or it isn't. iI it is the word of God then the Earth is only six thousand years old, Adam and Eve lived side by side with dinosaurs, Jesus walked on water, and that trumpet really did make those walls fall down that time in Jericho. On the other hand if it is a book that is open to interpretations then we might see how that very same book could be interpreted by all kinds of people, for all kinds of reasons.
It's not such a big leap to take.
I don't know about anyone else, I'm happy to let people be whatever they want to be with regard to religion. It doesn't stop me thinking it's a load of old hooey. I didn't say that I didn't like the people, I'm just saying the belief system is a system based on faith alone. There's nothing rational or reasonable about it. It has no logical basis in fact.
Mr. Spock you do sound angry today !Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignatius
About the points you make not making sense, I could point out that dinosaurs roamed the earth millions of years ago, and if, as you say, Adam and Eve only lived 6000 years ago, then how did they walk side by side with them ?
I believe the Bible is the Word of God, and I also believe that it is open to interpretation. I don't speak Hebrew, ancient or otherwise, or Aramaic, or Latin, or Greek, and have never studied the Bible in the languages in which it was written. How do you know they meant days as in 24 hours ? You don't. I don't either. And I don't have any problems with the concept of Jesus walking on water or with trumpets bringing down walls.
Yes, I interpret it in my way, the same as you do. Why is it ok for you but not for me ?
You could take any book in the world and read it, and I could read it too, and we would probably not see it in the same way, because we are not the same person.
I'm not angry at all. Neither am I stating that Adam and Eve walked the Earth with dinosaurs, merely postulating the idea that they must have if we believe The Bible. According to The Bible the world is only six thousand years old, so therefore dinosaurs must have been here at the same time as Adam and Eve if you believe The Bible. Once again, I am displaying no anger here whatsoever. Why do religious people bow up when their belief system is questioned? It's just a discussion, if my atheiesm is to be questioned (not by you personally Mud Dauber, but in general) then surely we can debate the irrationality of a belief in God. You either have faith, or you don't, but The Bible cannot be brought in as evidence. It's just a book to me, I don't accept that evidence. Prove the existence of God to me..go on, I dare you. If there is a God..where is he? Why did he let the Holocaust happen? The Tsunami, the war in Iraq, the WTC, WW1 and WW2... he's not doing much of a job is he? All he's saying is believe in me, don't doubt. Oh, and by the way I'm a jealous God..have no others. Not much evidence as far as I can see.
no the bible never claims the world is only 6000 years old i do not know what scripture your getting that from. it talks of the earth being a red hot molten planet and him formming the sea and land masses. it also talks of the giant beast wich roamed back then befor he created mankind.
Well, the creationists say that the world is only six thousand years old.
Are you not a creationist?
Don't quote any scripture at me, just a simple yes or no will do thanks.
do i belive the bible? YES! that does not mean that you can lob me into some catorgory of creationest or what ever. God's days in wich he created the earth are on his time table. the 7th day he rested is most of mankinds exsistance up to the present time. whats your point?
I'm sorry, but you do sound angry to me, like a dog straining on a leash - bad analogy probably but i'm high on cough syrup ! Maybe a horse chomping at the bit ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignatius
You are asking these questions like you think I have all the answers. I don't have all the answers. I don't pretend to have all the answers. You don't have the answers either. Humans have free will, and many of us choose the wrong path. I myself have done so quite a few times. In my experience it sometimes takes a big knock on the head to get people to wake up. When I make mistakes, or when bad things happen to me, I learn. And because I learn, I can teach others. You may say what could people learn from these wars and natural disasters ? Many things. And yes, people do suffer when bad things happen, but this body is only temporary. I believe that with all my heart. It doesn't take away the suffering of people, but it makes life a lot more bearable for me, at least. :)
Why don't you prove that God doesn't exist, instead of me proving he does ? Go on, I dare you. :D
how can anyone put there faith in mankind? All mankind has done is waist a bunch of time proveing that we can't do it our self. War, Hate and most of all GREED will allways lead to distruction.
The wage of sin is Death.
The burden of proof isn't on me Mud Dauber, it's on you.
There is no proof for a God, only faith.
That's the point I'm making, and I'm doing it without showing any anger. Perhaps you think if you keep saying it I'll lose my temper? I don't know how else to put it. I'm maybe being forceful in my opinion, but it's an opinion that I wholeheartedly believe in. All I ask is that my atheism is afforded the same weight as your faith. I'm not missing out, there is beauty all around us, just that I choose to ascribe it to something other than God.
I stand by what I say about The Bible and the various interpretations of it. Each religious group uses it to justify their own position. The same people use it as a justification for killing one another. I see it as an argument between various groups of people as to who has the best imaginary friend.
Just out of interest, I wonder how many wars have been fought in order to promote atheism. We all know the answer to that one..it's zero. As for God sending thse bad things so that we can learn from them... how about he sends us a bit of peace and goodness in his name instead? I think I'd learn a lot more from that. I think we all would.
There is no God, just people. It's up to us how we deal with that fact.
I'm not asking you to believe it though...
I'm afraid I fail to see how the burden of proof lies solely on me, and not you. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignatius
You say you aren't "an angry young man" and that you see beauty all around you, and then you ask why doesn't God send a bit of peace and goodness in his name instead. That tells me that you have never seen or experienced peace or goodness. If that is true, then what a sad life you have had so far :(
In talking about wars fought for atheism, I confess I dont know of any right offhand. But look at people like Stalin, and Hitler, and Mao, and many others like them. They too killed people for thinking differently. And I don't think they did it in the name of religion :)
I've experienced much beauty in my life, and I see it every day when I look at my daughter for instance. I put that down to biology, and you can put that to the test anytime you have a willing partner. You don't need to stoop to insults Mud Dauber, or maybe you do, it's your choice I guess.
Here's why I think the proof is on you. Suppose you and I were sitting in a room together, and I say to you "hey, look at this" and show you something in my hands. I have nothing there, so you can't see it. Let's say I keep saying I can see it. Is the burden of proof on me to produce it, or on you to believe it's right there even if you can't see it.
Take your time.. :)