Christians Beware: Jesus Kills Babies And Supports Genocide

If you don't think about anything until you see it, or place , HAH HAH HAH

Forget that.

You wouldn't believe that as I was lost, a book slid on my toe from underneath the computer table, and it was this bible.

So, I was thinking of how to explain what I was gonna say (which I've forgotten), so I, in a mocking manner, which is to say that I didn't expect results, I opened up the Bible for direction.

I came directly to Nehemiah. 4:1,2, Sanballat was very angry when he learned that we were rebuilding the wall. He flew into a rage and mocked the Jews, saying in front of his friends and the Samarian army officers, "What does this bunch of poor, feeble Jews think they are doing? Do they think they can build a wall in a day if they offer enough sacrifices? Look at those charred stones they are pulling out of the rubbish and using again!"

i have yet to recieve a response based on facts and logic, instead i have been answered with things like "i believe". Until the christian world can answer such questions like the ones i posed, i dont think that they can be expected to be taken seriously by any free thinking intellectual person.

Now im not saying that Christians are stupid, but what i am saying is that people should try to analyze things from an 'outside the box' perspective instead of listening to everything they are taught by their parents, or else they would become like Prussian Blue (twins that create pop songs praising Hitler and Nazis).

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Originally Posted by Vampiero

i have yet to recieve a response based on facts and logic,

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Because it was too long, I didn't know you were expecting responses based on your "reply".

Oh, yeah, I read it. Maybe, that's where I was getting at, but I got stoned.

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Originally Posted by Vampiero

well the way i see it is that arguing over the existance of god is difficult, and the only way to do it is through logic.

Now i ask this:
-Isn't it ironic that when Jesus was alive he never tried to create a NEW religion.....he only wanted Judaism to be open to everyone.
-How do you explain that according to the bible, the world is only 6,000 thousand years old or so....science claims its more like 4 billion.....is it a conspiracy? wink wink
-I dont quite understand the fact that the bible is made up of the JEWISH RELIGION + A COLLECTION OF SCROLLS (several of which, named the dead sea scrolls, weren't accepted into the final EDITED version because certains events didn't match)
-Can someone try to explain the fact that the bible indirectly condemns sex (for a reason i am unaware of) and then in the vatican there are beatiful paintings of Popes with their children from MISTRESSES!!!!

Personally i believe there are too many inconcistancies throughout history to prove the existance of a GOD, Robespierre himself understood that 'religion is the opium of the masses' (-Marx) and he tried to replace it by creating the 'cult of reason' hoping that people might educate themselves and use logic instead of listening to what corrupt religious officials comand them to do.........did i mention the fact that it is possible to buy ones way into heaven by donating substantial amounts of money to the church to be forgiven for all our sins.

Truthfully, i dispise the christian church for taking away more than 500 years of potential progess in human history, instead, we had the Middle Age otherwise known as the Dark Ages.

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Jesus spoke of "the scriptures", however, I don't know enough about him to say that every single one of them was a Jewish scripture.

I'm not gonna back the fact that the world is 6,000 years old. I just realized that I'm not gonna be able to answer questions intended for a Jew.

still i dont have an descent answer

Well, you asked a couple questions.

Explaining Jesus doesn't explain God. Religion trying to explain God is worship, in a greater form or less. Judaism wasn't "Judaism" when Moses, et al, started writing, or chalking, whatever they did.

To me, the Bible has nothing to do with Judaism.

1. As a response towards christians, Jesus=God according to the idea of the Holy Trinity which is considered as ONE thing (by my count, its 3).

2. Judaism was Judaism before Moses, and the people were known as Jews. Its not like moses invented the religion, u should reread the bible if you think he did.

3. I never claimed that the bible was Judaism, i said (and this is a historical fact) that HALF of the christian bible is the Jewish bible, copied WORD for WORD.

4. Science is based on the idea that theories are accepted until proven wrong....well i have asked several questions about christianity that no one is able to answer with any logical response. Now i dont mean to target anyone personally or anything, and i realize that my post sounds a bit aggressive (which is not my intention but i dont know how to reword it differently) but you cannot expect me to take religion seriously if it does not answer some questions that i have.

Oh, well, vampiero. The only reason why I have a Bible is because my temp. agency sent me to C.B.N. to do data entry, for a couple months, and they gave all the temp's Bibles when they didn't need us, anymore. Plus, my supervisor gave me one when she gave me a ride home, one time, but I think I left that one in my CRX, and then sold it.

I was confirmed catholic up in Amsterdam, NY and the first time I ever opened a Bible was in my twenties in Virginia.

Vampiero:

"religion" is a business. Spirituality is faith based, and there don't have to be facts. How bought, I believe in GOD, because I know him. I can't prove it to you, and I don't care if you beilieve me.

I don't care what you believe either, I don't push my beliefs on anyone. I can talk about it rationally, but to ask for facts isn't totally fair. So don't expect them.

This is funny kind of, you are like the opposite of the jehovahs, knocking on our virtual doors, trying to say "see, looky here!!!! Your wrong, god doesn't exsit!" Don't believe, just shut up and quit buggin about it.

Eva

Also, I don't live on a pot message board, so excuse me if it takes a few days for me to answer a question you have posed.

why isn't asking for facts fair, i think giving a reasonable explation is quite appropriate, most people i think would agree.

and the reason i dont 'shut up' about it is because i enjoy debating, and this is a fair debate. It is just a simple challenge, can someone give any reasonable explation for the questions i have.

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Originally Posted by Vampiero

-Can someone try to explain the fact that the bible indirectly condemns sex (for a reason i am unaware of) and then in the vatican there are beatiful paintings of Popes with their children from MISTRESSES!!!!

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Thats because
1. The church is a corrupted system of population control/evil corporate buisness
2. not even a pope can seriously abide by the impossible christian morals

Post your exact questions and I'd be most happy to oblige :) Just be warned that reasonable explainations don't always include facts.

And you weren't debating, you were prodding. If people ignore your post that doesn't mean "your right and you win" like it did when you were 5. It means they simply didn't find anything you had to say worth responding too :)

Eva

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Originally Posted by Euphoric

Thats because
1. The church is a corrupted system of population control/evil corporate buisness
2. not even a pope can seriously abide by the impossible christian morals

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As I recall the catholic priests were molesting a bunch of little boys. So I am sure they were also tampering with GOD word while they were at it. Religion doesn't always include GOD. Sometimes it is about making money off of GOD. Just like sometimes the car salesman is whoever he has to be to make that sale, footballer, golfer, Rancher. There are 2 ends to every spectrum, good and bad, positive and negative.

The idea of a GOD has been around since the beginning of time, LONG before Jesus, and the bible. GOD should not be doubted just because of all the human corruption.

Anyways, I am agreeing with you, and then ranting, in case it didn't sound like it :)

Eva

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Originally Posted by Vampiero

well the way i see it is that arguing over the existance of god is difficult, and the only way to do it is through logic.

Now i ask this:
-Isn't it ironic that when Jesus was alive he never tried to create a NEW religion.....he only wanted Judaism to be open to everyone.
-How do you explain that according to the bible, the world is only 6,000 thousand years old or so....science claims its more like 4 billion.....is it a conspiracy? wink wink
-I dont quite understand the fact that the bible is made up of the JEWISH RELIGION + A COLLECTION OF SCROLLS (several of which, named the dead sea scrolls, weren't accepted into the final EDITED version because certains events didn't match)
-Can someone try to explain the fact that the bible indirectly condemns sex (for a reason i am unaware of) and then in the vatican there are beatiful paintings of Popes with their children from MISTRESSES!!!!

Personally i believe there are too many inconcistancies throughout history to prove the existance of a GOD, Robespierre himself understood that 'religion is the opium of the masses' (-Marx) and he tried to replace it by creating the 'cult of reason' hoping that people might educate themselves and use logic instead of listening to what corrupt religious officials comand them to do.........did i mention the fact that it is possible to buy ones way into heaven by donating substantial amounts of money to the church to be forgiven for all our sins.

Truthfully, i dispise the christian church for taking away more than 500 years of potential progess in human history, instead, we had the Middle Age otherwise known as the Dark Ages.

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OKay, so I found the questions.

-Isn't it ironic that when Jesus was alive he never tried to create a NEW religion.....he only wanted Judaism to be open to everyone.

So Jesus loved and accepted everyone. He knew that there was a light of god in them, no matter how small the flame. And?? I don't really get the question.

-How do you explain that according to the bible, the world is only 6,000 thousand years old or so....science claims its more like 4 billion.....is it a conspiracy? wink wink

Yes, and the book of Enoch, and the most recently found writing from Mary Mangdalene (I dont' spell check because I don't want to so expect errors). GOD existing has nothing to do with this, the Roman Catholic Church did it. They began so long ago, they have build such an empire, and lies have been passed on from generation to generation. Such as the importance of the feminine aspect of GOD. Polarity is science. GOD is not male or female, GOD is not human. Therefore there doesn't have to be a sex. While we are talking about books excluded from the bible, we can discuss the lost teachings of Jesus in general.

-I dont quite understand the fact that the bible is made up of the JEWISH RELIGION + A COLLECTION OF SCROLLS (several of which, named the dead sea scrolls, weren't accepted into the final EDITED version because certains events didn't match)

Don't get the question, I haven't the slightest clue about the Jewish religion or ethnicity. I know there are both, and they aren't always the same. And I know they have Barmitzvas.

-Can someone try to explain the fact that the bible indirectly condemns sex (for a reason i am unaware of) and then in the vatican there are beatiful paintings of Popes with their children from MISTRESSES!!!!

Yeah, and their priest has to be celebate. But they can molest little boys. But again, this all goes back to humans, and greed, and control, and business. NONE of that is GOD.

My debate with you is your statment that the exsistance of GOD is a difficult subject, and needs logic. But GOD existing has nothing to do with the corruption of humans. I did read your profile, I now know your age, and your still young and learning.

You know gut instinct, intuition, a "feeling". Forget the fact that you are jewish, and forget every other thing you have ever been told about GOD, Jesus, the bible, or any of that. Ask your soul if god exists, and try not to let your body interrupt what your soul is craving to say to you.

Eva

i trully dont think that god exists......before socrates there were several greek philosophers (whose name i dont remember and are too hard to spell lol) who thought that everything was made out of the four elements, water, wind, fire, earth......today we understand the concept of atoms and such......so isn't GOD just another way of explaining things that happen around us which until now were unexplainable.

For example: i remember reading an article that when people actually pray (not necissarily to god) for a family member who is sick in the hospital that there is a higher chance of success. Is it due to god??? or perhaps because there are connections between us (telepathic or UV or such) that could affect this......a more precise example is when a scientist (forgot his name too, he invented peniscillin) took a sample of bacteria and seperated it into two different parts of the room. he noticed that exactly when one died, the others did too and for the longest time the connection was unknown, everntually they noticed that U.V. rays were connecting the two groups and they were more or less communicating through it.

[QUOTE= i remember reading an article that when people actually pray (not necissarily to god) for a family member who is sick in the hospital that there is a higher chance of success. Is it due to god??? or perhaps because there are connections between us (telepathic or UV or such) that could affect this......a more precise example is when a scientist (forgot his name too, he invented peniscillin) took a sample of bacteria and seperated it into two different parts of the room. he noticed that exactly when one died, the others did too and for the longest time the connection was unknown, everntually they noticed that U.V. rays were connecting the two groups and they were more or less communicating through it.[/QUOTE]

I think your biggest misconception in this whole debate is the fact that you are basing all your info off text book religion. Look at the bible like a book BASED on the true story. Could it all be as simple as a little handbook for life straight from god? There is a lot more to it than that. A Miricle can be many more things than just simply GOD, and praying. We do have a timeline, that we are in charge of, and we also have free will. This free will is where karma comes in. Sometimes things happen that just weren't suppose to happen, and "whoever" intervines. There is a dark side, and a light side. You might be on the light side and not even know it. I think the dark always know they are dark.

We get caught up in being humans, what about our soul? Say there is no GOD, then what is that thing that leaves your body at some point, all ages included, and you are then dead. There is the physical body, and the energy body. Whatever this invisible piece of you is has to go somewhere. And why wouldn't there be a hiarchy to wherever we do go? A hiarchy doesn't have to mean power, it is just a system, those who do this, and those who do that.

I have some questions for you, fair?

Do you believe in life on any other planet than earth? Why?
Do you believe in reincarnation? Why?
Do you believe in "Spirits" or "ghosts"? Why?
Do you believe there is more dimensions than the 3D? please explain....
What do you believe will happen to you when you die?

Each one of us is a piece of GOD, a creation. We have power over our own lives.

Eva

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Originally Posted by Vampiero

i trully dont think that god exists......before socrates there were several greek philosophers (whose name i dont remember and are too hard to spell lol) who thought that everything was made out of the four elements, water, wind, fire, earth......today we understand the concept of atoms and such......so isn't GOD just another way of explaining things that happen around us which until now were unexplainable.

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I think you're misrepresenting the pre-socratics there. Before Socrates the elements were largely accepted but the debate was over what was the most fundamental. Thales concluded that everything was water. Heraclitus thought that which is most essential is the logos, "the word", the primordial fire within... The thing to realise is the Pre-socratics weren't trying to say that everything is just water persay, as much as to say the element of the divine in nature resided there.
Today we have our atoms and still don't understand virtually anything about the universe they are scattered into...
I think "god" or "the divine" or "the sacred" is just a way of refering to that which we understand, but could never explain.

I think that is the biggest problem amongst the spiritual "debate". We are just humans. We can never understand, much less explain GOD. We use terms like He/She. That is all a HUMAN thing. Feminine and masculane exist, don't get me wrong, but we all have BOTH inside. As does GOD, but no body.

This Socrates thing is a perfect example of the ego, which your soul doesn't have. Ego is a human thing. I am not picking on Vampiero when I say that either. He is 16, yet he seems to think he has figured it out, and is willing to debate about it. That is fine, and all. But my friend, you only know the tip of the ice burg. Just as you knew PART of the Socrates thing. Not very many humans actually KNOW anything, ever. That is where faith comes in, and any faith is fine as long as it makes you happy, instead of scared like you damed to hell for lusting.

When we return home, where our spirit was before this body, and after this body, then we will remember and KNOW. Until then go ahead and be stead fast in the fact that GOD doesn't exist. I just think it is ignorant to be stead fast in anything these days. Scientists don't even stick with their own ideas. One day this is bad for you the next it cures cancer.

Just remember, every person and every place, and every event had something secret. Something the general public didn't know. These secrets have leaked over the years proving that you just never ever KNOW anything.

(BEWARE! this next paragraph is VERY sptupid)
Did you know, that some people are even saying that Nick and Jessica, of the Newlyweds, were never even a REAL couple? Supposedly Joe Simpson new Jessicas career was crashing, devised a long plan that I won't bore everyone with here. He wanted Nick Carter to be the Nick in Jessicas life, but Carter said no way. Anyways, It came down to one of the 98 degrees band members because they were managed by the same people (At that time). Anyways, supposedly Nick Lachey was picked because his voice sounded the best out of the group with Jesssica.

It is a very long story and VERY detailed. It just goes to show you how far things are taken. Think about how far back, and deep seated the current religious system is. MOST religions today were branched off the roman catholics, and then off of whatever they became. But the Roman Catholics are the ones who destroyed a lot of ancient writings. I would much rather read what an ancient has to say than the congregation that made woman enter the door on the side because they weren't as good as men. And the stake burning, cause someone is a witch. Now the Mayans, they knew some shit!

Eva

-u understand the point u guys are making, and if ur beliefs are that GOD isn't a guy in a grey beard (for a lack of a better stereotype) but just THE SYSTEM that more or less makes up what we see (a Spinozian kinda view) then i can fully understand that. But then i dont understand why people route their lives around it, waste time in church, or do otherthings that arn't going to have an effect, especially with all these fanatics, what im arguing against is mostly the Churchs and their versions of GOD.

-what i meant by the pre-socratics part is different, there are 3 different philosophers, all of their names are like Xanothrop..... and things like that, they start with X's and they believed in the four elements.

-I dont believe in spirits or ghosts or reincarnation, i think that when i die nothing too special will happen, i'm have more of a scientific mindset i must say. I do think there are more dimensions than 3, perhaps time is the fourth as Einstein claimed, but im not sure about the string theory just because i have yet to really look into it yet. And i do believe life on other planets is possible although unlickely.

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Originally Posted by Vampiero

But then i dont understand why people route their lives around it, waste time in church, or do otherthings that arn't going to have an effect, especially with all these fanatics, what im arguing against is mostly the Churchs and their versions of GOD.

...but im not sure about the string theory just because i have yet to really look into it yet. And i do believe life on other planets is possible although unlickely.

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First off, Spinoza? We're far beyond the modern movement now, can't we let rationalism die already?
I think it's very easy to blame religion for a lot of societies problems. And in a lot of cases there might be something to it. But I think the far greater problem, that affects both secular and religious people, is apathy. because, as any student of philosophy should know, the negation of god does not allow for the negation of the ethical.

Also, I was curious about your comment concerning other planets. If you have a concept even approaching the size of the universe, and if life is not itself divinely inspired, shouldn't it be everywhere else too? Why do you find it unlikely? What makes us so special?

Question:I asked what you do believe happens, you said nothing to special. I didn't say it had to be special, just what exactly do you think happens? Here is a better way of putting it, Is there an after life for you? What is it?

Questions: You do believe in more than one dimension, what do you believe the other 3 we don't reside in are like? And you don't believe in "aliens", but what about residents of these other dimensions you believe to exist, like us in the 3rd? Not to mention the fact that we have no clue, as humans, if there are other galexies. We have not even begun to be able to present facts about life on other planets,and there is no way of knowing any facts as to wether or not they have residents, or even the likelyhood of any of it. We have been to what 2 planets? Of how many? Yet you have still formed an uneducated "opinion" about it.

That is all I am trying to get across to you. You have all these ideas that have been put into your head from some source. Get rid of all of it, start over. I am not telling you to believe me. I am telling you to take all your preconcived notions, anything your parents, teachers of friends told you, and get rid of it. It is a very hard thing to do, and will come more with age.

Open up your mind and learn. That is all :)

Eva

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Not to mention the fact that we have no clue, as humans, if there are other galexies. We have not even begun to be able to present facts about life on other planets,and there is no way of knowing any facts as to wether or not they have residents, or even the likelyhood of any of it. We have been to what 2 planets? Of how many? Yet you have still formed an uneducated "opinion" about it.

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Quoting myself:rolleyes:

I just had to point out the fact that you have in fact been uneducatedly guessing, which in science is called a hypothesis. It is followed by studies and tests. None of which you, with the scientific mind and all, have done. Yet you have already come to the conclusion this is the way it is. You have skipped steps friend. That is MY point.

Eva

"Science works from the outside in, spirituality from the inside out." -Polymirize (from another thread)

I couldn't resist :)

Polymerize: i was never arguing the end of the 'ethical'. Personally my favorite aspects of philosophy are morals and ethics. But i was just inspiering a debate over the existence of GOD, and not the unexplainable. On another note, since the universe is so big, there is a large possibility that 'life' might exist but under different conditions that what we consider to be life.

SistarIndigo: thanks dude, trully, im not being sarcastic. Lately i've been thinking across the same lines and how things like priciples and traditions are really unjustified and unadapted for today's world, thats the reason i began to question GOD, but your idea puts me on a whole new level.

Mission accomplished :)

Eva

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Originally Posted by Vampiero

Polymerize: i was never arguing the end of the 'ethical'. Personally my favorite aspects of philosophy are morals and ethics. But i was just inspiering a debate over the existence of GOD, and not the unexplainable. On another note, since the universe is so big, there is a large possibility that 'life' might exist but under different conditions that what we consider to be life.

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Excellent points. And I'll ask you in advance for your forgiveness for answering them only with more questions.
First off, what do you think it means to be ethical? It seems like there's a lot of bagging on religion for not providing better ethics. But the same thing can be said of secular systems. "how can god allow such and such" people may ask. Let's seperate the divine from the systems which attempt to contain it shall we? Make no mistake, the divine is the unexplainable. The uncomprehensible. Infinite. The divine is everywhere. And so any attempt to find it in a singular form of thought is bound to fail. I've read a great deal of religious texts, and there's always something to it, some good ideas for how to treat our fellow human beings. And they're usually always lacking in other respects. Something, some possible perspective just isn't considered.

What is ethics? What is the goal of ethics? Where do they come from?

And in regards to life on other planets, what is life? what is existance?

I stole this off another thread again. It was all to fitting for the conversation. I can't remember the name of the poster, and I can't go back and look either, so SORRY for no kudos! Seriously, this was a great article.

NY Times 1/22/06

The Nonbeliever

Questions for Daniel C. Dennett about his book Breaking the Spell : Religion as a Natural Phenomenon

The philosopher and author talks about why he feels sure there is no God, how a scientific study can be applied to religion and what it means to be a "Darwinian fundamentalist".


Q: How could you, as a longtime professor of philosophy at Tufts University, write a book that promotes the idea that religious devotion is a function of biology? Why would you hold a scientist's microscope to something as intangible as belief? I don't know about you, but I find St. Paul's and St. Peter's pretty physical.

But your new book, "Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon," is not about cathedrals. It's about religious belief, which cannot be dissected in a lab as if it were a disease. That itself is a scientific claim, and I think it is false. Belief can be explained in much the way that cancer can. I think the time has come to shed our taboo that says, "Oh, let's just tiptoe by this, we don't have to study this." People think they know a lot about religion. But they don't know.

So what can you tell us about God? Certainly the idea of a God that can answer prayers and whom you can talk to, and who intervenes in the world - that's a hopeless idea. There is no such thing.

Yet faith, by definition, means believing in something whose existence cannot be proved scientifically. If we knew for sure that God existed, it would not require a leap of faith to believe in him. Isn't it interesting that you want to take that leap? Why do you want to take that leap? Why does our craving for God persist? It may be that we need it for something. It may be that we don't need it, and it is left over from something that we used to be. There are lots of biological possibilities.

Didn't religion spring up in its earliest forms in connection with the weather, the desire to make sense of rain and lightning? We have a built-in, very potent hair-trigger tendency to find agency in things that are not agents, like snow falling off the roof.

There was so much infant mortality in the past, which must have played a large role in encouraging people to believe in an afterlife. When a person dies, we can't just turn that off. We go on thinking about that person as if that person were still alive. Our inability to turn off our people-seer and our people-hearer naturally turns into our hallucinations of ghosts, our sense that they are still with us.

But they are still with us, through the process of memory. These aren't just memories.

I take it you do not subscribe to the idea of an everlasting soul, which is part of almost every religion. Ugh. I certainly don't believe in the soul as an enduring entity. Our brains are made of neurons, and nothing else. Nerve cells are very complicated mechanical systems. You take enough of those, and you put them together, and you get a soul.

That strikes me as a very reductive and uninteresting approach to religious feeling. Love can be studied scientifically, too.

But what's the point of that? Wouldn't it be more worthwhile to spend your time and research money looking for a cure for AIDS? How about if we study hatred and fear? Don't you think that would be worthwhile?

Traditionally, evolutionary biologists like Stephen Jay Gould insisted on keeping a separation between hard science and less knowable realms like religion. He was the evolutionist laureate of the U.S., and everybody got their Darwin from Steve. The trouble was he gave a rather biased view of evolution. He called me a Darwinian fundamentalist.

Which I imagine was his idea of a put-down, since he thought evolutionists should not apply their theories to religion. Churches make a great show about the creed, but they don't really care. A lot of the evangelicals don't really care what you believe as long as you say the right thing and do the right thing and put a lot of money in the collection box.

I take it you are not a churchgoer. No, not really. Sometimes I go to church for the music.

Yes, the church gave us Bach, in addition to some fairly spectacular architecture and painting. Churches have given us great treasures. Whether that pays for the harm they have done is another matter.
DEBORAH SOLOMON

Very intersting discussion folks. I always like discussing hard issues. lol Maybe I'm a glutten for punishment.


First religion is bad. Religious people crucified Jesus. Religious people fought the crusades. Religious people killed our friends on 9/11.

What true Christianity is, is a relationship with God. This is a very personal thing and some things people argue about are just doctrinal issues that don't really matter to much so long as the core truth is followed. (For example whether a Christian can drink alcohol or not).

Now I have said I really enjoy these discussions and I get into them a lot. In order to have a good discussion I think we need to keep a few things in mind. We can not always tell through a message board if someone is being serious or joking, so give folks the benfiet of the doubt until proven otherwise.

The Bible has more books and historical manuscripts that back it up proving it to be accurate than any other book ever written. I'm talking about writings from people outside the faith and Greek and Roman government officials.

Also, we need to be careful how we use the text. I can pick it apart and get it to say whatever I want. Always look at context. For example look at the first post in this thread. Yes, God called for some people to be completely whiped out. Why? There are two things that God will not stand for and that is dishonoring Him and dishonoring His people. Do you think maybe there's a reason why despite centuries of violence no nation has been able to destroy the Jewish people?

The flood didn't happen just because God was angry at a few people. It was the entire population except for Noah and his family that had turned away from God and was living in sin.


The Bible does not say sex is bad. In fact, sex is designed by God. It was people that perverted it.

Also, handle the text properly in terms of Old and New Testament. The Law, which was given to Moses and taught the people is Old Testament and people added to that. This was wrong. Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice. Under the Law there was the annual sacrifice for the atonement of the sins of the people. Jesus was the final sacrifice. We are no longer under the Law. He is now our doorway to God. He said no man comes to the Father except through Him. We no longer need to get wrapped up trying to live under the Law and other religious mechanical actions. Religion is death and heartless bondage. A relationship with Him is freedom.

I've been gone for a few months and when I drop back in the first topic I open is this xD. Its always nice to know that no matter how long I leave, whenever I come back there is always a "Christians Are Evil" kinda topic. Lol. How come no one ever seems to insult other religions. You guys make it seem as thou it is the only Religion in this world. :) Either you people are feeling extrem hate for them or you really must love them to the point you deny it. Lol oh my, not that I mind but I always found it funny with this forum. So how about them Hindus...

Also, Sex is any way is not perverted. We just call it kinky now. Stuff like rape or something where you force intercourse upon someone is not perverted its just sick and wrong. A horrible act. I also do not consider it sex because it is more force which makes me call it volience (sp?). But that is a form of sex, sex in its purity is not perverted.

I realize that can be taken so wrong...I can't explain it very well but I have it in my mind. Next time i'm stoned I'll explain.

Monty and Muddy, glad you've decided to join the conversation, but if you'll read the last page of posts or so, I think we're moving off the topic of religion persay and especially off the focus on christianity.

You're both arguing syntax and ignoring our semantics...

Sex used to be a very sacred thing. Women were very important, and special because they had the power to create life. Not of course without men. Both are equal, but woman can grow a life, and then naturally make food for them when they are born.

Sex is a need, it is about feeling wanted, and loved, and getting the ultimate orgasm from it. It is also to reproduce.

I did find it funny how the really newby up a post was saying we can't take the bible literally, yet he was taking the bible literally. Everybody but Noahs family died when he built the ark my ass! don't get me wrong, a lot of people died. We were a lot less populated back then. It was the same thing as now. We aren't taking care of ourselves, we were greedy, and envious, and hateful, and fearful. We are coming to a breaking point now, natural disasters are getting worse. Violence amangs men is getting worse...think about it. Man is more greedy than ever now, all the oil drilling, and refining. Everyone has to have a SUV. We are destroying our earth, and she isn't happy about it. If we continue, she will just get more pissed off.


I think the biggest problem in this whole discussion is all the labeling that happens. People don't mean to do it, it is a way of seperating things and being able to identify them. But who really cares what name you've given your creator. Catholics get a way bad rap. They are a business. My hubby's whole family is WAY catholic. He was confirmed and everything. But he is not a catholic, he is spiritual. He believes in reincarnation, catholics don't. Catholics have a lot of rules. GOD needs more credit than that. Do you think you have to go to a church every sunday or else god will be mad. god doesn't care where you go to be thankful to him, or just to cry too. But he can't intervien, what about free will? I got married in the catholic church, we had to go to 6 months of counseling and schooling on the institute of marriage. Then we both had to take surveys of like 180 questions. Things like do you have an STD? WTF! And when I told him no he said "are you sure?". Fucker.

But about Noah's ark, not everyone could have possibly died but those in that boat. Was there not life in the water during that time. I doubt a mear flood would do much but given them more swimming room :)

Eva

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Originally Posted by mont974x4

Religion is death and heartless bondage. A relationship with Him is freedom.

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I don't see a difference in what your talking about. Both religion and a relationship with "him" require faith and It just seems like another organization of people worshiping the same God.

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Originally Posted by mont974x4

First religion is bad. Religious people crucified Jesus. Religious people fought the crusades. Religious people killed our friends on 9/11.

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Religion is a business. Spirituality has been tarnished by the label of religion. They are not the same thing.

[QUOTE=mont974x4]
What true Christianity is, is a relationship with God.[QUOTE]


Wrong again, that would be the description of spirituality.

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Originally Posted by mont974x4

This is a very personal thing and some things people argue about are just doctrinal issues that don't really matter to much so long as the core truth is followed. (For example whether a Christian can drink alcohol or not).

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Those dumass stipulations are the reason it is not of god. god just wants us to be good, love one another, and have self control. He also wants us to experience, and learn, and grow.

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Originally Posted by mont974x4

Now I have said I really enjoy these discussions and I get into them a lot. In order to have a good discussion I think we need to keep a few things in mind. We can not always tell through a message board if someone is being serious or joking, so give folks the benfiet of the doubt until proven otherwise.

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Keeping that in mind, I will forwarn you that I may at times come across as harsh. But that is because I am being honest to the best of my ability, and it may seem harsh because it is blunt.

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Originally Posted by mont974x4

The Bible has more books and historical manuscripts that back it up proving it to be accurate than any other book ever written. I'm talking about writings from people outside the faith and Greek and Roman government officials.

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Of course the bible is "special". And I do believe a lot of it happend. But I also believe it to be a very vague source of information in this time. Due to all the editing, and versions. It is more like a book BASED on a true story.

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Originally Posted by mont974x4

Also, we need to be careful how we use the text. I can pick it apart and get it to say whatever I want. Always look at context. For example look at the first post in this thread. Yes, God called for some people to be completely whiped out. Why? There are two things that God will not stand for and that is dishonoring Him and dishonoring His people. Do you think maybe there's a reason why despite centuries of violence no nation has been able to destroy the Jewish people?

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Originally Posted by mont974x4

The flood didn't happen just because God was angry at a few people. It was the entire population except for Noah and his family that had turned away from God and was living in sin.

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I could poke wholes in this stuff all day. But, are we suposed to take the bible literally or not. because you said to be careful how you use the text, yet you actually believe that everyone but Noah, his family, and 2 of every animal survived this flood, because everyone else was living in sin.


For one thing god doesn't get angry. Give him more creadit than to carry such a low vibration as anger. And the whole world but those on the ark didn't die. It is a big world and they barely knew if it was round or not. How the hell would this be KNOWN for a FACT that they were the only ones to exist. All the dinos were long gone too, yet there are reptiles that are actually dated to that era.

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Originally Posted by mont974x4

Also, handle the text properly in terms of Old and New Testament. The Law, which was given to Moses and taught the people is Old Testament and people added to that. This was wrong. Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice. Under the Law there was the annual sacrifice for the atonement of the sins of the people. Jesus was the final sacrifice. We are no longer under the Law. He is now our doorway to God. He said no man comes to the Father except through Him. We no longer need to get wrapped up trying to live under the Law and other religious mechanical actions. Religion is death and heartless bondage. A relationship with Him is freedom.

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Again, a huge contracticion in the same paragraph. Handle the text properly, yet you hold to the christian belief that jesus was a sacrafice for our sins. How bout, jesus was a seed. He planted something, and went through huge sacrafices of his own, to plant spirituality firmly in everyones mind forever. It is a christian misconception that only through Jesus can we find god. Again, give god more credit.

Eva

PS That one quote is screwed up and can't fix it, so I tried :)

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Originally Posted by siSTARindigo

Not to mention the fact that we have no clue, as humans, if there are other galexies. We have not even begun to be able to present facts about life on other planets,and there is no way of knowing any facts as to wether or not they have residents, or even the likelyhood of any of it. We have been to what 2 planets? Of how many? Yet you have still formed an uneducated "opinion" about it.

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I have to respectfully say that you're 100 percent wrong. The field of scientific study you're talking about here is astrobiology. We're about as sure as shit that there are other galaxies out there (You can see them with even a weak telescope). Even ignoring other galaxies, the Milky Way has TRILLIONS of stars, planets are, to the best of our knowledge, quite common (The big debate is how many of them are gas giants, which are not likely to have life). You've obviously never heard of the Drake Equation, which is our way of knowing the likelyhood of alien civilizations.

Also, we found chemical reactions that "imitate life" outside of our own planet. life is loosely defined, but under any definition these reactions are interesting because they recreate conditions that many people speculate may have caused life on our own planet.

It's a young field of science and nothing is really "for sure" (as a scientist you should know, it never is) but to say we have no idea is just a bit ignorant.

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Originally Posted by streettrash

We're about as sure as shit that there are other galaxies out there...

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Oops :stoned: . I should have been all over that one, thanks for catching it.

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Originally Posted by MoonStarer420

Oops :stoned: . I should have been all over that one, thanks for catching it.

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What are you? The thought-police? :dance:

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Originally Posted by Polymirize

What are you? The thought-police? :dance:

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That thought is illegal!!! I'm sending the pigs!

Nah, i just try to stay on top of misconseptions about astronomy and our Universe. Atleast on things I do know.

[QUOTE=streettrash]I have to respectfully say that you're 100 percent wrong. [QUOTE]

I will graciously admit that I am not a person who would actual know. You sound educated on the subject. But I would like to point out that I was fighting for the fact of existance, rather than against it.

I very much believe that there is other life out there. And they are just to smart to be found. They know what we would do to them.

Anyway, always love to hear something scientific backing up my beliefs. So thanks :)

Eva

I don't know what my problem is with the quotes.