Thats very true about the whole ID card and detention without trial thing, atrocities like this just add fuel to that particluar fire. Anyway my thoughts are with you Londoners, take care of yourselves.
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Thats very true about the whole ID card and detention without trial thing, atrocities like this just add fuel to that particluar fire. Anyway my thoughts are with you Londoners, take care of yourselves.
You would probably feel different if your lord Alex was on that bus! Maybe a national ID card would help to weed out some of these dumbasses! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
Give him a fucking break. It's not like he cursed their souls for fucks sake. Why get offended by someone elses whacky conspiracy theory? Chill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
I hadn't thought of how this will affect the ID card policy. If that shit actually happens I swear i'll move to Iraq :mad:.
:rolleyes:
ID cards dont prevent terrorism at all. Spain has an ID card system and that didnt prevent the Madrid bombing, criminals and terrorists will always have the resources be one step ahead of any such system.
terrorists only understand brute force and power.
I really do fear the emotional response this is going to cause.
i bet you do.
Right on. This was a counter-attack â?? albeit done in a barbaric way and against civilians who didn't deserve it â?? but you can't expect your enemies to not kill innocent civilians when that's exactly what you're doing yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Button Basher
http://www.knife-party.net/movs/barry.mov
believe me,we understand that.
thats why war is called war(the buisness of killing people) and not timeout,or nerf battle.
sad that it takes another act of war to remind everyone what we are up against.but that is what happened.
So I see you've bought into the idea that we're fighting a "war on terrorism". And, as this incident shows, bombing the crap out of Iraq and Afghanistan did nothing to stop terrorism. It's just going to make it worse and worse. You're not going to get rid of people's desire to murder by dropping bombs on their neighbors. You have to get to the root of the problem (U.S. imperialism) and stop it there.
i guess the elections in afghanistan didnt happen.
i guess the ukraine didnt happen.
i guess the elections in beirut ddidnt happen.
womens suffrage in kuwait didnt happen either.
no two party elections in egypt?
your on the wrong side of history my freiend.
and good luck with that anarchy thing.
Oh, so they get to choose their leader now. That's a perfectly good excuse for killing a whole bunch of them. :rolleyes: By the way, if you're really dedicated to this "forcing democracy on everybody" idea, why not invade Myanmar and China and Belarus and Indonesia and a slew of sub-Saharan African nations? Oh right, they don't have oil.Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
I guess we're still getting bombed by fucking terrorists. 4 years and I guess we havn't changed anything we went out to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
Why do you constantly talk about another imminent terrorist attack in the US btw? Such doubt (but with good cause).
hey people open up your fucking eyes and realize that terrorism existed WAY before this war in iraq. There will always be terrorism, i dont think we will ever be able to get rid of it. The only thing we can do it try to slow it down in some way. Why did they lable this as terrorism so fast?...well fucking put 2 and 2 together, any act of blowing shit up like this is terrorism, doesnt matter who is behind it...innocent people dying like this is terrorism. Its so fucking black and white.
Im personally sick and fucking tired of reading all you people post how this is bush and blaire's fault. Why do you still seem to sympathize with the terrorists instead of those who want to stop them? Why do you reach to justify their tactics by spitting on ours? I cant even begin to understand the way some of you all think. This war in iraq does nobody good, but terrorism is much worse and has heen around much longer.
To all those in london, injured or dead, my prayers go out to you.
You're right, you can't just "get rid of all the terrorists". That's why Bush's and Blair's terrorism (that's right, it doesn't stop being terrorism when the guys killing innocent civilians as a means to a political end are our own leaders) isn't going to get us anywhere either. I'm not saying that all the terrorism is their fault, just that it's only going to get more intense when we bomb countries we think have some terrorists in them. When somebody explains to me how invading Iraq and Afghanistan will do anything to stop terrorism any better than invading Northern Ireland would, I'm all ears, but I see them only as wars that are going to turn more people to acts of violence against innocent people. I'm not "sympathizing with the terrorists" just because I oppose inefficient means to stopping terrorism. Just because I don't like Bush and Blair's inefficient solution to the problem does NOT mean I'm siding with Al-Qaeda. Bush's statement that you're either with him or with the terrorists is just ludicrous. I'm against ALL forms of terrorism, whether performed by governments or individuals, and the best way to prevent it from happening again would be to withdraw from the Middle East, say we're sorry and let them run their own society as they see fit. These people aren't being violent because they hate freedom, they're being violent because we keep sending our soldiers to their countries.
exactly. and trashing the constitution doesn't keep anyone safe from terrorism either. national id cards and homeland security and the end of posse comitatus won't keep us safe.
the endgame of troops on the streets and in malls and everywhere we go and all crime considered terrorism (section 802 of the patriot act), martial law, won't keep us safe.
giant government certainly isn't going to keep us safe.
This isn't like WW2. We're not so much protecting ourselves as invading and blowing the shit out of another country. I never knew the 'keep-firing-and-your-bound-to-hit-home' strategy was so popular.
So far off into fairyland it's incredible! There are many different interpretations to the Quran...this is a little of what the "terrorists" are getting out of it:
...Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who takes them for friends is one of them. Lo! Allah guids not these wrongdoing people. (Quran Surah 5:51)
And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can overcome. Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all you can by armed force...(Quran; Surah 8:59-60a)
...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)
...Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them...(Quran; Surah 9:73)
Doesn't look to much to me like they want to kiss and make up!
Well, Bush's God isn't much better at disapproving of genocide. I think Noam Chomsky put it best:
Quote:
You can find things in the traditional religions which are very benign and decent and wonderful and so on, but I mean, the Bible is probably the most genocidal book in the literary canon. The God of the Bible - not only did He order His chosen people to carry out literal genocide - I mean, wipe out every Amalekite to the last man, woman, child, and, you know, donkey and so on, because hundreds of years ago they got in your way when you were trying to cross the desert - not only did He do things like that, but, after all, the God of the Bible was ready to destroy every living creature on earth because some humans irritated Him. That's the story of Noah. I mean, that's beyond genocide - you don't know how to describe this creature. Somebody offended Him, and He was going to destroy every living being on earth? And then He was talked into allowing two of each species to stay alive - that's supposed to be gentle and wonderful.
Way to quote Chomsky. I had to write an exam paper on his innate language acquisition theory. :p
As if Christianity is a bunch-of-roses religion itself. I find it laughable people call it a peaceful, kindly religion when your damned to burn forever in the eternal fires of hell if you enjoy yourself at any point in your life. :rolleyes:
I have to say the Qu'ran does make me reconsider :( . Islam is most definitely a dangerous religion. My brother was telling me about the definition of 'infidel' he read in it, pretty scary stuff.
In the end, i'm more concerned about the wrong doings of my own "side" (as torog would word it) :cool: .
God and Bush are not talking believe me lol,this attack today was just another tactic of satan as he moves himself into postion to get the job done,but either way and no matter what happens this whole thing will play out and will allow all of hearts to be troubled,then look to the skys and into our own hearts and the day of the Lord will be upon us,then and only then all tears will be wiped away..............Christ is the way.........believe now more then ever because the last days are upon us.....come Lord Jesus...
^^is your mind right???
Can I hold you to that?Quote:
Originally Posted by bruiser
bruiser how can you call this an act of satan if infact this is the result of islamic jhihadists? are you calling islamic jhihadists who are doing what they think their god wants them to satanists? cummon man the bible thing is not gonna work for this situation...get over it.
Found this just now...very interesting!!!
This Telegraph story (thanks to Jeffrey Imm) makes sure to assure us in the first two paragraphs that the flag burning was done by only a tiny minority of extremists, ignored by the vast majority. Unfortunately, however, that tiny minority has the appeal of "pure Islam" on its side.
Islamic fundamentalists burned a Union flag and chanted the name of Osama bin Laden yesterday in defiance of the vast majority of mosques, which backed calls for Muslims to co-operate in the fight against terrorism.
A small number of extremists gathered outside two London mosques to protest but they were largely ignored by thousands of moderate Muslims leaving Friday prayers.
Imams across the country echoed the concerns expressed in a letter sent to more than 1,000 mosques last week by the Muslim Council of Britain, which warned against "mischievous elements" provoking "illegal activity".
But leaders also criticised the West's handling of the Middle East, the detention of Muslim suspects without trial and the "insensitivity" of the police.
One prominent imam argued that the council's letter could add credibility to the misleading impression that Muslims were harbouring terrorists when, in reality, 99 per cent of them were peace-loving citizens.
Mohammad Shahid Raza, the imam of the Leicester Central Mosque, said: "Some of the members of the community are interpreting this letter as something through which the larger community may criminalise the Muslim community.
"They may interpret it as 'Muslims are holding terrorists in their mosques', while 99 per cent of Muslims are peace-loving citizens in this country and have always co-operated with the authorities and the police forces."
Abdul Qayum, the imam of the East London Mosque in Tower Hamlets, said in his sermon that true adherents of Islam "could not conceive" of killing people unlawfully.
But he warned the international community against confusing this with the "freedom movements by the oppressed people of Palestine, Kashmir and Chechnya against the occupation forces".
In other words, his idea of "killing people unlawfully" may differ somewhat from that held by non-Muslims.
In an apparent reference to the anti-terrorism raids in the South-East this week, he added: "We are very worried about the reports of police insensitivity when arresting Muslims and the media coverage that follows."
At the London Central Mosque at Regent's Park, Abdesselam Daoud, a spokesman, said although the council's letter was not read out in full, its concerns were reflected in the day's sermon.
But as several thousand worshippers left the mosque, about 20 supporters of Al-Muhajiroun, a fringe fundamentalist group, burned a Union flag and chanted: "UK, you will pay, bin Laden on his way."
Anjem Choudary, a spokesman for the group, said: "There is nothing me and you, or the British services or the Government, can do about stopping an attack in this country. There is nothing MI5 or MI6 can do to stop al-Qa'eda from bombing London."
The overwhelming majority of the worshippers ignored the radicals, though a few shouted abuse.
Abu Hamza, the radical cleric, held his usual Friday prayer meeting outside the Finsbury Park Mosque, north London, watched by uniformed police officers.
He told nearly 150 Muslims that the only person who cared about the council's letter was Tony Blair.
He claimed that the alleged bomb-making material found by the police this week was "created material" and the arrests were a "conspiracy against these brothers".
The council's letter said that, according to the Koran, the murder of one individual was "tantamount to murdering entire humanity".
It added: "Islam categorically forbids violence and killing of innocents, let alone indulging in violence which can cause death and mayhem."
Iqbal Sacranie, the secretary general of the council, praised mainstream Muslim leaders for playing "a very important role in society".
He dismissed comments by Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, the spiritual leader of Al-Muhajiroun, who said Muslims should not co-operate with the authorities against members of the same faith.
Another good article I found:
Certainly, neither bin Laden nor his principal associate, Ayman al-Zawahiri, are graduates of Islamic universities or seminaries. And so their proclamations ignore 14 centuries of Muslim scholarship, and instead take the form of lists of anti-American grievances and of Koranic quotations referring to early Muslim wars against Arab idolators. These are followed by the conclusion that all Americans, civilian and military, are to be wiped off the face of the Earth.
All this amounts to an odd and extreme violation of the normal methods of Islamic scholarship. Had the authors of such fatwas [non-binding legal opinions] followed the norms of their religion, they would have had to acknowledge that no school of traditional Islam allows the targeting of civilians. An insurrectionist who kills non-combatants is guilty of baghy, "armed transgression", a capital offence in Islamic law. A jihad can be proclaimed only by a properly constituted state; anything else is pure vigilantism.
http://www.islamfortoday.com/murad04.htm
Take note of the author and his location!
Actually any one who would do such a thing would have to be doing the work of satan,if they are doing this to serve their God their God must be satan,well put it this way they don't serve the Lord,and by the way this bible stuff as you put it is alive and well and playing out before your very eye's,keep tuning in alot more shit is going to hit the fan over the next couple of years according to the scriptures.......but in the meantime don't panic these things must happen before the coming of the Lord..........peace be with you all...what most people fail to understand this is not a political war by any means this is infact a holy war! that has been building up for the last several years.......next move will be in the next few years will be marshall law in the free world,the us is close to that now!,the soldiers are in the streets and everyone is welcoming ther presence,give it a few more years and things will be played out in a much larger degree.....you still can't see it?....just remember these conversations,over the next little while....and perhaps then youl'l believe but for your sake right away.........look to the skys the Lord is comingQuote:
Originally Posted by makor01
WOW! This is a rich thread....Psycho we don't always see eye to eye but tonight you are hitting 100%......I'm really impressed... :D
These acts have to be taken on an individual basis...you can't blame an entire religion for the acts of a few....great posts!
Thanks!!! As you know, we have our own Jesus freaks blowing up abortion clinics in the name of the Lord....all Christians aren't nuts though. :D .....NOT saying I'm a Christian! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by BlueCat
Peaceful citizens need of course to be protected against terrorists.
Terrorists being people who were already badly educated and who are ready to die for their beliefs by becoming human bombs in the name of their supernatural god.
But this is not a war, but a matter for the police.
The huge military expenses, advanced jets and armord vehicles, missiles
can do nothing against a terrorist blowing up a subway train or a bus!
It is laughable or shoud I say sick to see the media illustrating the idea
of war against terrorism by showing military training in terrorist camps.
You do not need months of training in para military camp in order to
kill 33+people with a bomb in the London under ground system!
This so called "war on terror" is creating more terrorists and sadly
the furture will prove it.
Before this so called "war on terrorist" stated there were only a few hundred religious fanatics ready to blow thenselves up in the name of their god.
Now their are hundreds of thousands all around the Muslim world
who hate America and Brittian as never before.
PLEASE feel free to back up that statement with a credible link!Quote:
Originally Posted by root
Check out what the Arab nations think....and from what news agency!
Deadly blasts that rocked London's underground trains and a bus have drawn shock and sympathy from several Arab capitals - some of them all too familiar with carnage on their own streets.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...C0DF5D89AD.htm
Here's the link,
www.informationclearinghouse.info
People, this is a not a war in the name of Religion. It's not! The people who believe in Bin Laden's Ideology are fanatics. They are in the same boat as Christian Fanatics who blow up abortion clinics. These people do not represent either religion. They are nuts. But everytime Bush opens his mouth, he proves yet again Bin Laden's point. Bin Laden says the US will go into a Middle Eastern nation and take it over, so what do we Do? WE PROVE HIS POINT! We are making Bin Laden's job easier. We're making us a an easy target for hate. You sheep who follow Bush are too thick to realize we're creating our own enemy.
bruiser get a clue please....you sadden me.
and to xtc i wouldnt say we "created" this enemy, but we have seen alot more come out of the woodwork since all this got started.
Which article relates to the numbers you quoted? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by root
Which country did we take over? Afghanistan has its own government and I believe that Iraq has more than proven that it has its own. I'm sure the U.S. administration was real pleased about this:Quote:
Originally Posted by XTC
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e77d12b8-ef...00e2511c8.html
Doesn't really look like a U.S. policy to me....how about you?
WOW!!! I would have NEVER expected this!
Iran, Syria condemn attacks
Iran and Syria, both on Washington's list of states sponsoring terrorism, joined an unbroken chorus of condemnation, as did the Palestinian Authority, Hamas and Hezbollah.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/597431.html
i am interested in all the cameras and what they caught.you cant go anywhere in london without being on tape.
i believe Churchill put it best on October 5,1938.
"Do not suppose that this is the end.This is only the beginning of the reckoning.This is only the first sip,the first foretaste of a bitter cup wich will be proffered to us year by year unless by a supreme recovery of moral health and martial vigour,we arise again and take our stand for freedom as in the olden time."
i get chills when i read that.