Anyone wanna see a specific x vs x?

sounds like youre having all the same trouble i was bro. ph is fickle bitch and drops arent that reliable.and it sounds like your water has some funk goin on. you need to know whats in your water. is it heavy in salts or metals? that ruins ph readings.
ive been screwing around with it since november and im just now getting somewhat reliable conclusions. in my case i use ffof and if i filter my water and adjust the ph, my soil runoff ph will rise and so will the water when it sits. if i do nothing to my water at all
my soil runoffs will be very low. and that is using water at ph 9.3. the runoff will be in mid 5's. so to compensate for that now im boosting my ph a bit, sounds counter-intuitive but so far the plants are responding. im not saying that this is a solution for you but you need better info on your water than drops will give you and not just ph you need to now your ppm and ec levels. a good meter is a necessity.

these 4 all had problems stemming from very low ph.

this one only gets ph adjusted(6.5)

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this one gets ph adjusted 7.5

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this one gets ph 8.5

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and this one is at 9.3 as soon as it dries a little im going to bump that a little now that i have some descent ph buffers

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they all have some degree of yellowing and necrosis with the major exception being the last one. those pics are from a couple days ago also and the first is still declining and the other 2 are about the same as they were. the run offs on the first three are all over the place. the last one comes in at just fluttering between 5.9 and 6 so i figure if i push my tap water up towards the high 9s i should get a better run off. they will all start the higher ph water this week so i should know for sure if it worked by next week since i already know down adjusted water is killing them.

this is how they all started out or worse

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Indi -

The problem isn't that people aren't trying to help. The problem is that your discounting their advice. Myself, as well as at least 4 others have told you it's a PH issue. Your discounting our advice saying it can't possibly be a PH issue, instead of solving the problem.

Use a soiless mixture (since your using nutes anyway) and go from there. Here is a good basic mixture:

50% Coco fiber
30% pearlite
20% silica/peatmoss/anything to hold moisture However you can cut this out and go with 50/50 coco/pearlite

You won't have any hot issues, from there you only need to balance your nute PH and your golden. In all honesty, these materials should only run about $50 for about 10 square yards, and coco fiber is easiest to work with when wet/moist.

You shot down EVERYONE telling you that you have a PH issue, discounting their advice. PH Drops are not reliable. Get yourself a meter, calibrate it, and then follow the advice you've been given.... If you were right about your problems Indi, you wouldn't have any. Keep that in mind please.

I have been nothing but grateful for every response.. shovel handle has helped me on another thread yes with a generic generalized responded about the soil and until these last responses no one told me Ph and if they did it was a completely generic answer I MYSELF openly said I DO have a Ph issue I'm asking how to fix it! Not what it is, as I know what it is, I'm also trying to figure out if the marks on my leafs are a specific deficiency or an insect or a burn... I appreciate any help from anyone and if it sounds like I'm dismissing anything I'm sorry but why do you think I've been going to such great lengths to adjust Ph if I'm dismissing!? Also every sticky on the topic on this site says ingoing soil Ph should be withing a few points of run off so how are you supposed to accurately figure out ur run off? I have taken my soil and put straight Ph up through it and still haven't seen it above 5.0?? As u guys said I'm gonna buy a new meter to check Ph but what will be more agitate to read my run off/ or should I be testing the soil? I can't afford a blue lab, what else would be recommended? I just got a Hanna promo ppm meter and my tap water is at about 200ppm and I have high iron and have had my water tested and told everything is safe, but iron is high, but like I've said before, I have been using distilled water with equilibrium, and if the drops aren't accurate then I have no idea what my run off is as even with Ph up there's no soil I've seen(8 brands now) that will run off higher than 5.0 with drops I'm just trying to figure out how to fix this not to mention the happy frog had brought in those pests that I'm STILL trying to treat that could be adding to this problem? Or could be the actual problem!?

dont you find it odd that 8 brands of soil all gave you the same reading with drops? thats pretty hard to believe. and im a little curious how it could possibly have lowered pure ph up to 4 or 5. that sounds like your drops have lost their potency or something. unless you ran a very small amount of ph up thru a very large amount of soil it should have still read very very high. hanna makes good meters but i wouldnt get a real cheap one it will only add to your headaches. i would also suggest getting rid of the vinegar. it is a pain in the ass, it doesnt stay stable and it has a ton of salt in it....

I just have the vinegar in the grow room, in case lol I've never actually had to use it I can usually balance my ingoing Ph with my waters n nutes easy enough, up is really the only thing I need and its really only needed for the recent flushing to try and fix my recent problem, and as far as the drops ya tell me about it!! 8 brands ya!! No joke and that was my first thought but if that were the case all the water I have been testing wouldn't be right and the drops react with my water the way they should dropping with vinegar raising with Ph up its only run off doing this!!??

run offs can be a pain too. water doesnt just run straight down thru the soil it follows the easiest way down and drags what nutes or salts etc it hits along the way.
something is way off either the drops are screwed up or there is something in your water that is reacting with something in the soil. 8 soil/nute companies wouldnt be around very long if there soils were constantly toxic or contaminated. what do yo know about your water table and groundwater seepage? didnt you say you have a well? maybe there is something leaching into it. doesnt mean that it makes it unsafe for drinking etc. but it doesnt mean that there might not be something weird in there.

Yes that has been my thoughts too, but like I said for about a month or so now I've been using distilled water... with equilibrium instead of my well water...

But lets work this out!! So I went out today and bit the bullet and bought a blue lab, as well as everything needed for an read set up, I'm going to put my first stage plants from my rapid rooters into a hydro set up, I think I'm gonna do mix runs, now that I have all the proper equipment, I'm hoping to solve my soil problems, being that I like to run 4 or 5 strains at a time its not ideal to have that many hydro set ups for each strains specific needs so ill run my similar feeding strains that are my favorites in the hydro set ups and keep the rest in soil to have control on all their nutritional needs, I think it'll be fun and a good learning/teaching opportunity, ill keep my logs going in detail and hopefully give and get feedback regularly, ill post back tomorrow with a hydro set up pics and the dig on the current soil situation as to new questions/solutions, also the insect issue is almost completely cured I'm just spot touching as to make sure no more eggs hatch and breed in-between... all the plants are showing signs of new growth and we seem to be pushing ahead I'm gonna go through some thorough Ph testing and setting up my hydro system tonight, I have 4 jock clones ready for veg planting, as well as a northern light blue and a Barney's pineapple chunk... anyone experienced in the strains I'm running to know wich ones would feed similar enough to put into the hydro to share a Res?? Currently have Barney's tangerine dream, Barney's pineapple chunk, delicious carmello, delicious northern light blue, mandala Satori, and jock all going in various stages..

What kills me the most here mal, is the simple fact that on principle ingoing water should be very comparable to runoff, and if we are battling this rather than solving it we are essentially stunting growth over an extended period of time to the extent of the extremes!? That's why I get so finicky to hear a response on how to FIX, as yes we are treating the problem but u said since November I've been battling for almost two months that means first the stress is so high we are almost guaranteed to hermie with such extended periods of stress and two we are losing months of precious grow time that potentially cost a yield decrease of as much as 50+%!! I'd almost rather try thugs to fix it until I do at the risk of the plants and if they die empty sanitize test run until I have unquestionable environment then start fresh rather than finish out a crippled run with crap results and not be able to get back the time lost that was to end up starting over in the end anyhow ya know!!??

Ok so I calibrated the blue lab, so it turns out Gen hyd. Ph drops(two different bottles) read the water ok actually pretty close to right on track with the blue lab but... I watered ALL the different soils I had with ph'd 8.7 distilled water with equilibrium, and guess what!! The Ph drops read 5.0 EVERYTIME!! but the blue lab is ranging between 6.4-7.0 right on the money now being that I was watering with higher Ph it tells me the soil may be a little low but its not my problem... the drops were as I said they ARE accurate as far as testing water but as soon as water hits soil then drops bam it doesn't read anything but acidic!?? So the soils in the grow are actually close to ideal randing throughout the 6's but they had to have been low as I was watering them Ph up more a while now, however due to all the insecticide watering and trying to pb the water guess what's up now!?? Lol we have mold through all the soil with current plants... so... as much as I hate to think it I'm gonna transplant again with my fingers crossed and if they make it amazing if not it'll kill me but I will be sprouting the back up beans( as I do have a decent many more of all my strains) and hopefully either way next week ill be back on track and in good conditions, I'm halfway through a light 5 bucket rdwc set up ill post on later. But for now with ALL THE CRAZY HELL I've been through with this issue I'm hoping that aside from me this can help SOMEONE!! LOL anyways for future reference if some one could just help me with this one basic principle... now that I have accurate readings... for Max plant growth and nutes absorption, before watering what should I be doing to know were to Ph my in going water to not shock roots?? Should I be taking a soil sample and testing it and adjusting water to that? Just sticking the meter in the soil? Or just watering at 6.8ish and adjusting each upcoming water to the previous runoff results? Any advice would be amazing!! Thanks everyone for the help much appreciated and ill be on to hopefully a happy log for all to enjoy!!!

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even a broken watch is correct twice a day. good luck going forward without the drops.

best of luck indi.

To be honest with you I barely ever check run off,unless duty calls I think its pointless i keep my water at 6.5 all the time when it goes through the soil, im not gonna lie have never really had much of a problem with ph in soil it stays pretty stable.ok now to the problem what have you ammended your soil with sometimes you just gotta give it a few good flushes and that run off will become more stable. I have learned that some soil additives such as roots organic will cause you to have a low run off in the 5s, im speaking from personal experience as long as you keep the water and nutrients at a 6.3-6.4 going in ur fine it will level out, I have never had a ph problem yet . Good luck hope i could help. Ps in my experience the droppers are alaways a little lower when they read next to a ph pen

Thank you guys for helping me get back on track, most seems good, as my insects are all gone (knock on wood) as of right now, and I have been seeing good growth... but due to trying to fix my issues as I said before I know have moldy soil hence my last pic I posted, and with the fast growth and beings I was just watering with ph'd water I'm showing what I think is some definciencys... I'm gonna post a new thread plant problems to try to get some ideas.. and again THANKS!! you guys dug me out of a whole!! And me being me put myself in a new one on my own lol...