My turn - Stunted growth?

Thanks for the comments, low_rdr! I'm here to learn. <g>

I'm thinking that this is all about the soil (in this case, coco, which has no nutes). Plant #1 is almost 3 weeks in, and growth seemed incredibly slow until nutes were added. Now, it seems nute burned with a light mixture -- seriously, this is it's first taste of any food, but it's started to grow. I think, anyway. My thought is that if you plant a seedling in a coco/perlite mix and just water it, it will never grow because there is no food. Be aware that I have zero clue what I'm doing here, tho.

My "process" so far has been to germinate the seeds in paper towels (in Baggies). This seems to work well, and I'm using commercial seed from Herbie's. They germinate fast (24-48 hours). These are planted in the coco/perlite mix in a Solo cup and watered with nothing but pH adjusted tap water. Once in this mix, they seem to sprout okay, but don't grow at all.

I agree with the overwatering -- cutting back on that and the 1/3 cup of water seems about right to me. The cups do have drain holes. I use a "clear" Solo cup for the coco and put that inside another Solo cup to catch the runoff. Plant #1 has roots I can see that are growing at the edge of the clear cup. This plant has serious roots, but is lacking on leaves. Looking forward to when transplanting is even an issue.

Anyway, I know this is going to be a learning deal and greatly appreciate the advice. Many years ago, I threw a few bagseeds into a pile of dirt, and it worked out better than what I'm seeing today with all this hifallutin stuff. But, I am patient.

Many years ago you didn't over think it, or over love them :)

The pod of the seed actually has all the nutrients the plant needs for its first few weeks. All you have to do is add water. As far as your mixture is concerned, just too moist, I wouldn't worry about the lack of nutrients - In all honesty, coco is the way to go, because you know exactly what your putting in, there is no guessing, so when there is an issue, its easy to pinpoint. Remember that your plant roots need air, I firmly believe they aren't getting enough.

As for nutes, I'm not saying don't feed them, because they are a few weeks old, but I would only give 1/4 feeding per gallon, and it shouldn't take much longer (if the roots are starting to touch the edge) for the foliage up top to come in.

Keep in mind, that these guys may be a little runted for awhile, but if you lighten up on the feeding schedule, and get some more air into those roots, they'll balance out quickly

No joke, man. Never heard of "bud" back then, either. :pimp:

I think you're right about the food. Seems like I've gone from zero growth to decent growth with a bit of burn in a couple days here. The first feed was half strength and that seems like it was too much (seeing some signs). But they're actually showing signs of growth now.

In coco, I'm starting to think that maybe a week or two of no food (just like you say) might be best, then start feeding real slow.

(Maybe this will be a grow log / plant problem / newb deal?).

Today was watering day (all three cups real light and dry). Got three plants born about a week apart and I watered all three with half strength FF hydro on Saturday (Big Bloom and Grow Big). Here's the grow log part:

Plant #1:
Attachment 290337
This plant was a dry seed on 2/27. No real growth until I added the food 3 days ago. Now it's growing, but too much food?

Plant #2:
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Dry seed on 3/8. It's almost caught up with plant 1. Likewise, didn't start growing until food was added.

Plant #3:
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Dry seed on 3/11. Kinda mutant? Three leaves? I fed this the same as the others on 3/16 with the half strength FF mix and I think that might have been a bad idea.

Anyway, the deal today... Watered #1 and #2 with 1/3 strength food (maybe 1/4 would be better?) - cutting back on the food a bit and watered #3 with pH adjusted tap water (no more food for you until you get a little older!).

Oh, and strains - #1 and #2 are both White Rhino (World of Seeds). #3 is Barney's Pineapple Chunk.

Plant #1 has roots against the glass now and has for some time (no idea what I'm doing, but CLEAR solo cups seemed like a good idea just for this reason). Might have to think about transplanting before long?

Lovin' the learnin', but wantin' the smoke. :lol:

I usually don't pull out of my solo cups until the foilage has gone over the edge of every side of the cup by about 1" or so, by then they're typically 6 or 7 inches tall with about 10-12 nodes (remember, the closer your lights, the closer the nodes)

Then I'll put them in a 3 or 5 gallon to finish. If your keeping one for a mom (don't if its bagseed) put her in a 1 or 3 gallon, just so she stays small and bushy.

Oh, I see your not using bagseed - You gonna turn these into moms? or you gonna clone them and flower them out and use hte clones for moms?

Got a ways to go yet before they overlap the cup. I'm still pretty concerned that the growth of these are stunted -- growing now, but not very fast and at this rate, it's going to be awhile! Since this is my first grow, there are no plans for moms or such. I can buy more seed, and wouldn't mind checking out a few different varieties. My plan is to dry 'em and smoke 'em. :lol:

Anyway... Got home from work yesterday and #3 was bent over in the cup. Call that one dead, not sure what happened -- it never really even produced leaves. Also discovered that the lights have been running 24/7 (not that it matters at this stage). I've now duct-taped the switch on the timer to prevent that from happening again. So, back to the original two plants, Laverne and Shirley.

Seeing some pretty steady growth this week, but like I said, it's going to be awhile.

Here's Laverne today (Plant #1 from before):
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The coco isn't really rust colored -- problem with the photo.

This plant is now 23 days from seed. Seems pretty slow to me still. Should be a lot bigger, I think. I used clear Solo cups on purpose so I could see the roots (these are stacked inside non-clear cups normally). As you can see, the root system has made it to the end of the coco and is now digging. I'm not sure if this means I should think of transplanting to a bigger pot or not.

I've got 3 gallon pots here and can continue with the coco/perlite (have lots), but I'm starting to think this coco/perlite thing is why I'm not seeing the growth. Part of me wants to buy a bag or two of FFOF and transplant to that.

low_rdr... how old are your plants when they hit the 6-7 inch / 10-12 node point in their growth?

As always thanks for the comments; mucho appreciated (from everyone!)

Coupla pics of Shirley (can always tell when I'm on a VB forum... does wierd things with photo attachments)

are there drain holes in those cups?

I've got a week old seedling (in hydro) just now pushing up its first node - mine are typically ready for transplant in week 3, and your roots will wrap around that cup pretty well (thats rootbound) you don't want that, just close to it, I'd say give them another week in those cups.

Notice how the amount of foliage has doubled just in the past few days? The leaves are catching up with the roots now. So leave them to catch up for a little bit longer, remember the larger the leaves are, the more light they can convert into energy thus making bigger, stronger, and longer roots. The bigger the root system, the larger the plant can grow :D

So yeah, give the veg at least few more days to expand, I'm sure in a full week you'll have at least 4 nodes on there at the current rate. Transplanting now only encourages the roots to seek out more space, instead of more energy on the leaves

So far so good, and don't worry, everyone looses seedlings first starting out!

OH and just saw your post about the soil -

keep them in the coco/perlite, if you wanna mix in the FFOF with the coco/perlite that's fine, just keep it under 40% (or to taste) but I'd keep it under 40. And remember not to use that on the seedlings until they're put into veg. But keep using the coco and the perlite, the coco holds great moisture, and the perlite adds good air - don't change either. the ONLY benefit to the soil is the added nutes, and we've already seen the damage too much nutes can cause, right? :)

First, yup, the cups have drain holes. When I water them, I actually get some decent runoff through the holes -- let it drain well before putting the clear cups back into the other cups (only takes a minute or two).

Anyway, decided to transplant today. Partly because both plants had roots starting to come out the drain holes and partly because I wanted to do this on a weekend when I have plenty of time and I don't think it'll wait another week.

Both plants are now in 3-gal pots; same mix as the cups -- coco and perlite. I mixed a batch of food water (1/3 strength Big Bloom and Grow Big) pH balanced for 6.0 and soaked the coco/perlite mix before transplanting. It holds water real well, but as long as it has drainage, the mix never really gets soaked. In the cups, I was going about 3 days between waterings.

Transplanting is SCARY, man. :) First one went well, but the second one fell apart in my hand. I hope like heck I didn't damage anything getting it into the new pot! The stalks didn't seem real small, but the bigger plant had finally gotten wider than the cup.

Some pre-transplant pics:
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Low_rdr, I'm a little confused... I said give a little nutes. You say that you advise against it, then in your next post you say that's not what you're saying and for Token to give 1/4 strength nutes. You also say that perlite is to allow into the soil. Perlite hold moisture, not air. Have you ever squeezed a piece of perlite? It's like a little sponge. Also, can you explain this: "in the FFOF with the coco/perlite that's fine, just keep it under 40% (or to taste) but I'd keep it under 40." Why do you say this? What about those that grow in 100% FF potting soil? Are they making a mistake? Exactly what is Token suppose to use to make up the other 60%?

hmmm, pp my perlite is like a lava rock kinda, wet or dry, what you describe is like vermiculite.