My turn - Stunted growth?

[Token LaRoche]

Using coco, but this form seems more appropriate than the hydro form.

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) Noob (first grow)

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) T5 Florescent 4-2ft tubes in fixture
.2) Distance from tops? 4-6 inch
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) built-in (fixture)
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? Maybe not -- it's in a closet
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? Just added a fan today to move the air around
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 4x24W tubes, 6400K, 18/6 schedule

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) CocoTek "big block" coco coir, mixed approximately 80/20 with perlite
.8) Size of container. Solo cup
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? No - germinated in paper towels

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? Tap water. pH is about 7.0 before adjusting
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) Liquid drops
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) ph Down
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. No nutes at all yet - just water
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? Have been watering every 2-3 days, but see below
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) None
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? Seem stable
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? ~6.0 ingoing, haven't tested runoff
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? No

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? Indoor
20) What size of closet, room or hut? 3x3x6 ft tent inside 9x4x8 ft closet
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? Haven't checked, but temps aren't extreme at all.
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? No

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) White Rhino (Indica dominant, I think?)
24) From seeds or clones? Commercial seeds
25) Is this an autoflower strain? No

So, here's the problem...

First seeds (2) were germinated 15 days ago. Germination seemed to go fine. Planted both in separate Solo cups with a 80/20 (or so) mix of coco/perlite. One of the plants grew a bit, then kind of stopped growing. The other one barely grew at all (and has since died; the result of an attempted transplant that was a bad idea anyway). I now have a 3rd plant going, so there are two under the lights.

My concern is that once planted, they grow a bit than stop (or slow way down). Here's a picture of plant #1 after two weeks:
Attachment 290275
It hasn't changed much in the last week and should be a lot further along. (Right?)

No nutes yet, just pH adjusted tap water. This is probably bad voodoo, but I pulled the two plants out a couple days ago to see the roots, and #1 looked like this:
Attachment 290276
Seems like the roots are growing great; why no leaf growth? I put that one back in the Solo cup and it still seems fine today - 2 days later, but still no real growth above ground.

I'm thinking overwatering? Seems like this coco mix never dries out (drainage is fine, but even after a couple days, the cups are still "heavy"). But I also don't have much ventilation in there. Tent has a carbon filter and fan, but haven't used that, and I keep the tent open anyway. So, I quit watering 2 days ago and added a fan to circulate the air just an hour ago.

Any thoughts? Plan so far is to water a whole lot less and get some air moving.

Token LaRoche Reviewed by Token LaRoche on 03-14-2013. My turn - Stunted growth? Using coco, but this form seems more appropriate than the hydro form. What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) Noob (first grow) Your Equipment: .1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) T5 Florescent 4-2ft tubes in fixture .2) Distance from tops? 4-6 inch .3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) built-in (fixture) .4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? Maybe not -- it's in Rating: 5

[Mal420xl]

sounds like you got your own answers. look a lil too wet is all maybe. they do have to grow the roots first then vegetation. someone posted a reply for a thread a while ago that made awesome sense.
it was something like "stop thinking in terms days and start thinking in terms of weeks." and when it comes to plant growth those words are pure gold. as much as we would like them to be like pets theyre only plants.

[polishpollack]

Are you actually using the pH down? In soil, typically, you don't need to. I'm guessing that your soil is the problem. If there's no fert to it, this could be a problem. Like usual, I'm going to suggest you get a bottle, preferable the small one, about 8-9 ounces if you can find it, of Dynagro 7-9-5. It doesn't take much for a soil grow of this fert to work. Just one half teaspoon in a gallon of water will be fine, just don't give a whole lot of water, and see what happens. It could be that there is no fert to this kind of potting soil. After two weeks, this plant should be bigger, like 8 inches in soil grow. If you want really fast growth, then learn how to make a DWC 5 gallon bucket. Or ask at a grow store to show you how. It's easy and Dynagro works good for that too. Just follow the directions on the bottle.

[polishpollack]

double post, sorry.

[Token LaRoche]

Thanks for the input, mal and polish!

Yeah, I am using the pH down (about 1 drop for a half gallon of water). This drops the pH from about 7.0 to 6.0 best I can tell using the indicator drops. Grow medium is coco coir mixed with perlite, so not really soil or potting mix. From the reading I've done, this is more like a hydroponic deal than growing in soil and coco coir is pretty sterile? And everything I've read says not to add any nutrients until there are more leaves. It does seem like something is lacking, though! I've got the Fox Farms hydro chemicals, but haven't tried that for fear of burning the plants. Maybe try a really diluted mixture just to see? I think the local store carries Dynagro too.

One day after adding the fan... this seems to help things dry out faster, if nothing else. I think I'm seeing a bit of growth now, but maybe that's just wishful thinking? The cup for plant #1 was pretty dried out, so I watered it (first time in 6 days).

8 inches in two weeks? Definitely doin something wrong here.

Thanks for the comments and keep 'em coming. I should know in another couple days if this was just a case of overwatering.

[polishpollack]

By sterile, do you mean inert? As in coco doesn't change, won't break down? that's probably right. If you haven't ferted yet and your in coco, maybe a little fert might be good. Potting soil is really more designed for this kind of thing. The castings are nice but won't give a whole lot. If you have fert already, I'd probably avoid using something else. You don't want to overdo it or mix and match ferts.

[Token LaRoche]

Inert? Yeah, that's a better description... I don't think coco has any nutrients at all. And I'm pretty sure that's the problem (my solution today - ha!). I've been going on the advice that you shouldn't add any nutes until you have 4 leaves (even asked this specific question). But, it seems like that's for growing in soil which actually does have some nutrients and the goal of waiting there is to avoid over-fertilizing the very young plants. Since coco coir has no food to begin with, it looks like you have to fertilize from the very start. Maybe someone here who knows the specifics can clarify? Coco is more like a hydroponic grow where feeding is concerned. And I still have no idea what I'm doing, but I think I'm learning! :lol:

So, I mixed up a batch of fertilized water this morning. pH balanced it. Interesting -- with the plant food added, I had to use pH UP to get it to 6.0. Half-strength Fox Farms hydro stuff and flushed all 3 plants with it. I've got three plants in various stages. One is over 2 weeks old -- still alive, but I bet I shocked it beyond repair. The second one has been in the "dirt" for about a week. #3 seed was just planted yesterday.

Thanks for your comments!! I'll for sure be back with status reports & pictures, but think I'm on the right track. Definitely wasn't born with a green thumb, but I'm determined to learn.

[polishpollack]

You're right about coco and nutes not having any. that's not to say that you can't buy coco prepackaged with nutes added, although I've yet to see that. When you say "dirt" do you mean like outside your residence kind of dirt? If so, don't use that for an indoor grow as it could have bugs. Most potting soils come with a charge of fertilizer mixed in. It's really what you want to use for an indoor soil grow, but I know that some will argue that idea. You want to use what causes the least trouble. Why pay for coco just to turn around and buy fertilizer? You can get stuff that has fert to it and you might have to add some toward the end. pH is suppose to drop when you add fert as it's a little acidic, so you have that right. Just don't over fert. Keep posting in this thread as I'd like to see your progress. So many people get their problem solved and never come back. About the fert you have, you say it's hydro fert. Many times a company will put different strengths in soil fert and hydro fert. I'm guessing the reason why you got this fert is because you're not using potting soil. Therefore, if you transplant, keep in mind what medium to use and be careful how you fert it. If you get potting soil with fert, mabey back off the hydro fert for a while and see what happens.

[Token LaRoche]

Thanks for the comments! Actually, I meant common potting soil when talking dirt. I'm going the coco route because... well, the first web site I came across that seemed to have easy directions for this sort of thing was growweedeasy.com and that's what they recommend. A horticulturist, I ain't (lol), but willing to learn. Probably should have gone with the potting soil (and honestly, wish I'd found this site first). Think I'll give it another week or so and if things don't start to look up, FFOF it is.

Yeah, using the Fox Farms hydro stuff because of the coco. Two days after watering with the half-strength stuff, things seem to be growing, but now it looks like I may have a bit of fert burn. (WTF? With half strength?) Here's the pics from today:

Attachment 290323Attachment 290324

Plant in the first picture is 19 days from dry seed. Second pic is 10 days. Not exactly "growing like weeds" eh?

More to come and comments always welcome!

[low_rdr]

I would advise against the nutes (sorry pollack), simply because your roots can easily be burnt. Honestly it looks like your soil is too moist, and its not getting enough air. an 80/20 mix seems VERY lite, the only reason you add perlite into the coco coir is JUST to bring air in, the more perlite, the more air.

I've got a bean I popped 4 days ago, almost the size of your little sprouts now I think your over watering, OH and make sure you have drain holes in your solo cups, you don't want that nasty water sitting there - I typically have to hit my solo cups every 3-4 days with about 1/3 cup of water each (when I do soil grows)