Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemanrocks
Well it??s not medium less?..but a step in that direction. I know 240 of these is out of the question for you?.but in an 8 holer it??s not so much.
Oh you young people and your strange "blue" strains. I much prefer to grow old school strains like "yellow #2 ticonderoga"!:thumbsup: Exactly what strain of blue is that? They look like they are stretching. LOL
Not sure why you have no faith is just a net pot and neoprene collar, the collar will hold your cutting and when it roots thru the net pot you have two attachment points to hold your plantlet.
And if the bubble fogger turns into a bubble only cloner, then little lost. Because I?.like yourself?.enjoy my projects.
Often it is the journey that is enlightening rather then the destination, grasshopper.
Thanks for the chuckles HMR. :D -oldmac
Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner
Zardly,
Your presence is simply a must?.Namaste
LOC NAR,
Very interesting. Tryed a fog cloner and thought the heat would be a problem so we kept temps at about 70 degrees. Results were very poor. Found out we needed 80 degrees or alittle better. So heat from the pond fogger was no issue in an A/C room. More like needed a fishtank heater.
I??m with you there?.my clone dome likes to see 80 ?? 84 degrees.
Heat is the issue?.the options as I see them.
1. Use a heatmat
2. Slow the recirculation to the reservoir to add a little more heat to the manifold.
3. Increase the pump flow to the manifold to overflow manifold heat into the grow chamber.
For the moment that looks like an ??adjust on the fly?. Good thought?.it makes me consider setting the reservoir higher??and shunting off excesses in pump flow or not as desired. Yup, gonna do it!
What we found is if it's just fog all the time the roots become very lacy. If the fogger shuts down for even a hour those lacy roots dry and are damaged for good. If no roots have reach the water level then it's just about all over.
With the prevalence of 15 minute segmented timers (cheap) on the market, I??m beginning to think in 15 minute increments. Like 15 min on and 30 off. It??ll be interesting to see how this all ends up?..like how much flow?.how much venting?.at what relative humidity. Gonna be fun. I appreciate your spending time and your experience.
OM,
what I found was; going from a regular clonner that just sprays water around, there is a lack of fine lacey roots so when the rooted clones went into a fog based enviroment it took a week to ten days for them to adopt (really grow) fine hair roots. The reverse probably holds true, but the transition may be easier since there will be some tap or water roots avaiable for the plant to use.
I got it backwards?..again!! So what??s new?
As LOC NAR pointed out, the hair roots are very delicate, but they are formed after the first roots emerge that are water roots. So there should be roots "reaching" down towards water to sustain the plants if the fog takes a holiday. In my aero/fog grow tray I stopped both the aero and fog for over an hour with no damage to the hair roots. The humidity level in the root zone never reached the point of the hair roots drying out after an hour or so, not sure how long it would take but again there was a lot of water roots laying on the bottom of the tray so the potential to completely loose them seems remote to me.
I very much appreciate knowing what to look for?..very useful
I actually hadn??t planned on a very long stay in the cloner?..just enough to move them down the line to the pre-veg bubbler. Would I be wrong in guessing that to be about 3 weeks. I also hadn??t planned on any feeding until the transfer. Any thoughts on that?
I think a good starting point for you would be to run the pond fogger all the time and spray for 1 minute every 15 minutes or so. But once you get this thing up and running you should get a better idea of how much fog you have and what the cuttings need.
That answers a lot for me?.the timing cycles had me going in circles.
I never really had a full understanding as to why you had the need to cycle the foggers off. The only thing that I could be clear on was, yes?.overfogging is possible.
The variables are so many?..density of fog, micron size, dryness of fog, humidity of the fog chamber.
My intuition is that the output of the single disc pond fogger could justify full time fogging?..it??s reassuring to hear it from you.
Now to the part about spraying?..I??m not going to spray?.I??m going to bubble splash. I have no experience with sprayers, so I have no mental framework to compare from. My guess is that the gentleness of the bubble splash would have much less influence than a spray.
What I hope to pull off is using a $10 hardware store timer that segments to 15 min intervals. From what I??m learning?.only the appearance of the roots and lags at transition will teach me that.
Oh you young people and your strange "blue" strains. I much prefer to grow old school strains like "yellow #2 ticonderoga"! Exactly what strain of blue is that? They look like they are stretching. LOL
It??s a strain given to me by a local. He called it SS (a Silver Haze X Skunk) I truthfully had no idea that it was a blue strain. I know that you often grow PPP, and the more I learn about it the higher it moves up on my to do list. And any stretching is a result of sharing a light with larger plants in the pre-veg bubbler. One of the biggest reasons for this project is to have clones at the closest stage of development as possible??.wish me luck!
( To interject a thought?.Weeze, was Hi Homie totally lost to rustlers ? )
I??ll close here and go to work on the flow report from the shop
Thanks all,
Horsemanrocks.
Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner
Had a little more shop time today. So I did some experimenting with fog flow and the need for an exit vent. I approached it by venting at each netpot and not at the far end of the chamber.
[attachment=o233431]
The picture doesn??t do justice?.so I took another with a dark background.
[attachment=o233432]
I got a very nice distribution from first to last pot on both sides. After 50 min of fogging there was considerable condensation and some of the more exposed lava rock was beginning to darken.
Two hours later (not running) there was enough condensation inside to make me believe that it might not need to run 24 hrs, particularly after the lava rock begins to take on some moisture.
So whether I hole punch some neoprene collars or put together some home made lids ( I might just be able to drill out some more ABS test caps) Just some fiddling with netpot lids is about it. I can??t see presently that a fan will be needed?..that??s a load off?.I think that this bad boy is gonna fly!
Thanks all,
Horsemanrocks.
Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner
"It??s a strain given to me by a local. He called it SS (a Silver Haze X Skunk) I truthfully had no idea that it was a blue strain. I know that you often grow PPP, and the more I learn about it the higher it moves up on my to do list. And any stretching is a result of sharing a light with larger plants in the pre-veg bubbler. One of the biggest reasons for this project is to have clones at the closest stage of development as possible??.wish me luck!
Um, He was jus' jerkin' yer gherkin.
The Ticonderoga Yellow No. 2
Was da clue.
On da Island it's said ever'ting grows.
Pee inna pot an poke in a pencil, pretty soon, you got pine tree.
( To interject a thought?.Weeze, was Hi Homie totally lost to rustlers ? )"
Nope, jus' one of 3.
No. 2 was lost to fungus.
Very hard to grow, outdoors.
It was bred for indoor under leds.
I'm inhaling the No. 1 as we type.:jointsmile:
Left some notes next to da stoner chess board on the character of the "side-effects"
I've gifted plenty seed so it won't die out.
And I'm taking cuttings of my HH-III momma today.
Tryin' not to type, got 'zard fingers an' it's gummin' da kbd.
loha
W.
Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner
Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner
Um, He was jus' jerkin' yer gherkin.
Guess I'd better loosen up! :D
Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner
Take this?.BAM :hippy: a whirley, that??s right a whirley. But wait?.BAM :hippy: another whirley?.that??s right a double whirley. It doesn??t get any looser than a double whirley.
The only guy that ever tried a triple whirley died trying.
Take two beers..and call me in the morning!
His looseness,
Horsemanrocks.
Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner
Prodaytrader
The problem with the fogger your using is that it only produces DRY fog. Your plants will need water. That is an absolute necessity. The fogger alone can not sustain your plants in my opinion and I have tried many methods including 4" fence posts just like your doing. Additionally, your pots are too close for veg and bloom, but I think you know that already. I didn't when I tried what your doing and quickly discovered that I ran out of room in there for larger plants. For some reason, the way I grow plants, they all come out bushy and short which means you need a good foot on either side of the plant to give it plenty of room. I know your just wanting a system to clone in though. It seems to me that I couldn't even get the plants ready for the veg cycle with fog alone. I mean to say that I don't think you can just use fog alone even for just cloning as the plant will need more water then what the fogger can produce. Nute's wise, fogging works great, but since you and I have dry foggers, we can never provide enough water for the plants without a secondary system.
Good tips?..I??m hoping that the grow chamber carrying 1 ¾? of water and an occasional splash from the airstones will keep the chamber humid enough for survival??ok, that remains to be seen. If you would be kind enough to supply me with your fogging schedule?..I??d be obliged.
Mold will become an issue if you don't control the fog well enough. Humidity is a large issue for foggers. Personally I think it creates too much of a humidity issue at least in my environment. Not only are my leaves all wrinkled from the high humidity, but I also tend to get mold at the base of the plants. DO NOT LET YOUR LIGHTS, COME INTO CONTACT WITH THE FOG. Where ever the fog is allowed to reach outside the res and the lights are shining on that spot, that is where your mold will start. The fog will want to creep out from the inside of the pot especially if your plant doesn't completely fill the hole in the neoprene disk. The lights tend to shine about 1/2" below the neoprene inserts so wrap the base of the plant with something to prevent fog escaping and light from getting down into the pot.
Also very useful?.as that??s exactly where I??m needing to open up some to accomplish the desired flow. That will influence my design.
I'm not sure I can tell you properly how to make your system work, but I do know what doesn't work for sure. If that is of any benefit to you, then I can share more if you want. I really wanted fog to work, but it's not easy. Personally I think you need at least 2 to 3 zones for plant roots, where the fog sits on the top, sprayers in the middle somewhere and pools of water at the end.
My friends remind me when I occasionally snag a hot grounder in the infield??even a blind squirrel eventually stumbles across an acorn? Maybe I got blindly lucky. A fog zone?.a splash zone?.and a reservoir below.
Headshake,
Not like you to be so silent?..loosen up man, use a ??grinnie? or..or..or have a few drinks and throw in a whirley?.I did?.it does wonders!
That's too much for now,
Horsemanrocks.
Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemanrocks
Take this?.BAM :hippy: a whirley, that??s right a whirley. But wait?.BAM :hippy: another whirley?.that??s right a double whirley. It doesn??t get any looser than a double whirley.
The only guy that ever tried a triple whirley died trying.
Take two beers..and call me in the morning!
His looseness,
Horsemanrocks.
ROTFLMAO! this shit really had me laughing out loud. i'm trying to loosen up HMR, i just can't seem to put those damn faces on here. lol.
i'm loving the project!
"you must spread some rep around......."
-shake
Bubbler-Pond fogger cloner
ok im scribeded now too...
The zones are gonna be your saving grace for sure. Fog timing is something your just gonna have to learn on your own, I think. I can give you suggestions but you will have to find what works for you. I have used 24h/7d fog, 1 minute on 4m/5m off, 15m on /15m off and possibly everything in between. Everyone says that the roots need drying time, but too much and you kill those fine roots in the fog. Come to think of it, since the fog is dry to begin with, why again are we drying the roots out in the first place? I'm gonna start a thread on that discussion I think. I have most definitely killed fog roots before in as little as 20 minutes if I recall. However, too much fog and you have humidity issues and get mold. Tonight, I had to pull a basil plant from my system because it had root rot from too much fog and humidity. Your going to want frequent periods of intense fog is about all I can say.
That blue pencil joke was from start to finish hilarious and then to watch Horse's reaction....vrooommm. He totally missed that one.
