Atheism

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

i am working on tidbits. keeping a .txt notepad open and trying to unload my mind on it.


in about a month, i might have something ready to be read, untill then, it's not going to help me to try to explain anything, because every time i explain one aspect of reality, it opens up more questions based on the relation it has to do with science and history.


and you'd have to take to what i said to answer some of your own questions lol.

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Umm, okay...

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we never NEEDED history, because we were de-evolving from GODS.

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Devolving from gods? When did these "gods" exist? What the hell are "gods" anyways? Why are they devolving into humans? How are they devolving into humans? Where's the evidence for all this? And what does any of it have to do with history?

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and the bible is largely inaccurate too, mostly in chronology and mathmatics.

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Uhh, it's inaccurate in a lot more ways than that. For instance, that whole bit about the Jews being enslaved in Egypt and then wandering around in the desert for 40 years. There's not one shred of archeological evidence that that ever happened.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

When you speak about the "theory" of evolution it is important to realize that the scientific definition of "theory" is not the same as the way the word is used in everyday conversation. A theory is not just a guess as to how things might have happened, but a model of how the world works that is backed up by data. Theories can never be proven 100% true, but with many theories, such as evolution, we can show that they're extremely likely. There really is no other real scientific theory about how life came to be. There's "intelligent design", but that's not scientific at all since it doesn't make any falsifiable statements and doesn't correct itself according to the data. It's really more of a game to see how many holes they can punch into the prevailing theory â?? they don't actually make any predictions about what we should find in the future or present any models for how life came to be. They just say "God did it" and give the matter no more thought.

What do you mean by "spirituality", or the "balance of mind, body and soul", and why can such things exist only if there is a deity or deities? I just haven't ever experienced anything which would suggest to me that there is a God or many gods out there. There's nothing in my life that is only explainable in terms of gods. Whatever they are. Hardly anybody is willing to tell me what gods are supposed to be in the first place, and those who do have widely divergent definitions. When somebody can sit me down, explain to me what gods are and what the evidence is that shows beyond a doubt that such things exist, I will incorporate them into my worldview. In the meantime, I live a very happy and fulfilling life in which I only assume the existence of things which can be shown to exist.

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The funny thing about most of the religions out there is they believe God is tyrranical man-like figure that walks the earth and controls all that is around us. I don't believe it. Each of us are an extension of god, we all possess god like powers. I'm not talking about what you see in movies about Jesus ascending to heaven or god causing Tsunamis. Nature is one aspect of god, after all, what is the purpose of life if we don't suffer? I refer to that each decision in one's life affects others, whether directly or indirectly. We each have the power to create life, take life, we each control our destinies to an extent. The rest is controlled by the environment and energies that surround us. This is the purpose of religion. This is a message that is lost. Everytime we feel we done wrong, each of one feels burden, or guilt. The purpose of spirituality is not to have guilt be your hinderance, to be free of it by being a good person, positive, and good to others. You don't have to believe in god to achieve this. This is where I disagree with others. People get too caught up in believing in god, paying tithes etc., rather than trying to get in tune with one's self. God is the environment, the energy, and you.

Science can explain what life is through logic and reasoning. How you live it is through god.

But what IS God? You've given a very vague description. As far as I can tell, the universe is made out of matter, energy, space and time, and that's it. I have no reason to believe in anything further, as I see no evidence of it anywhere. I believe in being a good person and all, but I don't see why we have to attach it to this vague "God" idea. I'm a good person because I genuinely care about the feelings of others, and I want to do what I can to make this world a better place for them. That's built right into our genes. Our ancestors who didn't have a genetic predisposition to help out their fellow man died out. We are a very social species. We depend on each other for survival, and to ensure that our societies stay together we have evolved the trait of empathy, that is, being able to "feel for" others. We feel horrible when we know our loved ones are in pain, and we feel great when we've provided our loved ones with pleasure. It is just the product of evolution, of high intellect and the need to keep our societies together, not the product of a supernatural entity. I don't see why we need to attach to this phenomenon a name which is commonly understood to mean an omnipotent, omniscient human-like father figure who rules over the universe with absolute power, punishing those who don't follow his rules and rewarding those who do.

matter, energy, space and time, oneironaut, are ideas invented by god, and breathed into reality.

god is nothing but the collective of all ego/spirit/souls. we created god by existing, we are god when we all work together as one.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Sorry, "I watched a video about it" isn't enough. If the theory of evolution really is full of holes, you should be able to remember at least one of those holes and be able to tell me what it is.

What does this fossilized cowboy boot have to do with anything?

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HAHAHA!!! People like toothpick drive me insane. There's on logic or rational thought behind anything he's said. I think what he met by fossilize book was that bones can fossilized "quickly." Too bad the bones ages are determined by the decay rate of C-14 and at which level of sediments they were found at.

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

matter, energy, space and time, oneironaut, are ideas invented by god, and breathed into reality.

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What the hell is this "God" thing you keep talking about? Please, define your terms, and then show me your evidence. Otherwise, I cannot possibly take statements like this seriously.

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god is nothing but the collective of all ego/spirit/souls. we created god by existing, we are god when we all work together as one.

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Huh? Why not just call that thing "humanity" then instead of "God"? That seems to be a closer approximation of the idea you're trying to express here. Unless you're trying to say that human consciousness is all-powerful, all-knowing and created the universe.

I give up on this thread its not going anywhere

You'd be hard-pressed to find any debate on religion or politics that "goes anywhere". In the vast majority of cases people leave with the exact same views they started out with. Or at least they claim to; it's very embarrassing for people to admit they were wrong about such things. You have to just keep an open mind and be willing to be shown wrong, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

What the hell is this "God" thing you keep talking about? Please, define your terms, and then show me your evidence. Otherwise, I cannot possibly take statements like this seriously.

Huh? Why not just call that thing "humanity" then instead of "God"? That seems to be a closer approximation of the idea you're trying to express here. Unless you're trying to say that human consciousness is all-powerful, all-knowing and created the universe.

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"please put the source of reality inside the box that is reality, only then will i believe something created reality"

that's about what i get from that, one.


you're trying to put a greatness that has not even created symbols for all it's own greatness to put itself inside one of it's symbols.


it's like the sims. let's recreate will wright in perfect likeness to himself, and put him in the sims.
*computer crash* the information required to perfectly recreate Wright would require more than our computers can currently handle.

that is how humans are too. weak computers inable to comprehend their creater's greatness.


the sims cannot understand flesh and (real) genetics, to them, we live to be thousands of years old, but of course the sims are a game, nothing like reality. :rolleyes:

the point is, reality has not (and forever will not) ever evolved to -- the entity that is god.

it is three realities that create one, which those other three cannot enter as one, but govern over as the three that they are.


you would say that physics are one of the three parts of god.
then thoughts would make the next, right? or what would you say would?
and... um... i guess matter and body makes the third part...

i dunno, i lost track of where this was going, three or four conversations going on now, i think i'll just stop arguing lol

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

"please put the source of reality inside the box that is reality, only then will i believe something created reality"

that's about what i get from that, one.

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Well, if God is real, then he's surely part of reality, right? If God's not part of reality, well then he's just not real. I can't reason otherwise.

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you're trying to put a greatness that has not even created symbols for all it's own greatness to put itself inside one of it's symbols.

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What you're basically saying here is: "There's something out there and I don't know what it is or where it is, and I don't have any evidence that it even exists. In fact it's so mysterious we will never know what it is." That doesn't get us anywhere. It's like me saying there's something called a foozlefizzle. I don't know what a foozlefizzle is, but it's really big and mysterious and invisible and I can't prove to you that the foozlefizzle exists, but I have faith in the foozlefizzle. We will never understand the foozlefizzle because it is undetectable and enormously complex, but let's just assume it exists even though I don't have any evidence that it does.

Sure there are things in this universe we don't understand, but inventing vague abstract ideas like gods to explain them will only hinder us in our search for what's really going on.

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it's like the sims. let's recreate will wright in perfect likeness to himself, and put him in the sims.
*computer crash* the information required to perfectly recreate Wright would require more than our computers can currently handle.

that is how humans are too. weak computers inable to comprehend their creater's greatness.

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What creator? Where is the evidence for this creator? What is so objectionable about the idea that the universe just is? There doesn't seem to be any intrinsic purpose for our existence. We just are. There's no reason we need a creator any more than your God needs a creator, so why postulate one if there's no evidence for it?

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the sims cannot understand flesh and (real) genetics, to them, we live to be thousands of years old, but of course the sims are a game, nothing like reality. :rolleyes:

the point is, reality has not (and forever will not) ever evolved to -- the entity that is god.

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Again, you're using the word "God" without defining what it is. Can you give me some idea what this word means? You obviously must have some clue if you're using it in this sentence here. All I can gather is that it's some big invisible mysterious force that made the universe, that doesn't necessarily have a cause in itself. Following Occam's Razor, I'd rather cut the confusing God step out of that process and just say the universe doesn't necessarily have a cause in itself. Unless some evidence of this extra step is found, there's no reason to assume it took place.

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it is three realities that create one, which those other three cannot enter as one, but govern over as the three that they are.


you would say that physics are one of the three parts of god.

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I would say that physics can account for everything in the universe. Everything is made out of something, or it doesn't exist. If God is real, he must be made out of something, and physics should be able to uncover what that something is. If God is not something, then God is nothing, i.e. not real. I simply cannot conceive of something that is not made out of anything and yet still exists. I have never been very good at doublethink.

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then thoughts would make the next, right? or what would you say would?

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Thoughts are a part of physical reality. Think about it. Where do thoughts occur? The brain. Can we observe the brain? Yes. Can we observe thought patterns in the brain? Yes, indirectly, but we know that's where it's going on. For instance, real physical chemical molecules (drugs) can effect your thoughts and behavior. We can even identify certain parts of the brain that are associated with specific cognitive tasks. These parts of the brain receive more blood flow when those tasks are being performed, we can influence the performance of those tasks by stimulating that part of the brain with electrodes, and people who receive injury to that part of the brain have difficulty completing the tasks associated with that part of the brain. This all only makes sense if thought is a physical process going on inside the brain. How could a non-physical "soul" be affected by physical drugs and physical brain injuries? How does this "soul" direct the blood flow and neuron firings in the brain without breaking the laws of physics in some obvious observable manner? Why do we even need to keep the ancient idea of a "soul" when we know how the brain works anyways? We gave up the idea of a rain god when we found out how rain works, didn't we?

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and... um... i guess matter and body makes the third part...

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It should be fairly obvious to anyone with working eyes that matter and bodies are part of physical reality.

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i dunno, i lost track of where this was going, three or four conversations going on now, i think i'll just stop arguing lol

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I don't know where this is going either, especially since I still have no clue what this "God" thing is supposed to be.