Republican and pro-cannabis

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Can somebody please please please explain to me how one can be both Republican and pro-cannabis? Reassure me that there are indeed pro-cannabis Republicans on Capitol Hill. Do something to convince me that your very political ideals are not in direct contradiction to your personal practices.

I posited this question on the Giuliani, Hillary, Skink thread yesterday. Only Rebgirl stepped in to try to provide some clarity, then she was feeling under the weather and couldn't continue the discussion yesterday. So, I'll provide links to the original posts, and then sit back and wait for someone to explain this to me.

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/105550-rudy-giuliani-vs-hillary-clinton-3.html#post1292256

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/105550-rudy-giuliani-vs-hillary-clinton-3.html#post1292329


http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/105550-rudy-giuliani-vs-hillary-clinton-3.html#post1292438

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/105550-rudy-giuliani-vs-hillary-clinton-3.html#post1292478

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/105550-rudy-giuliani-vs-hillary-clinton-3.html#post1292861

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/105550-rudy-giuliani-vs-hillary-clinton-3.html#post1292936

Of course, there are posts by others sprinkled about in there. This is just the exchange between Reb and I, since she was the only one who felt like answering at the time.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

republican outlook and a pro-weed stance aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. a true republican view is one of limited governmental interference and capitalistic freedom, all the rest is merely to lure in the special interest groups and create the illusion of a difference between the two parties. legalization is actually more in line with the original republican point of view than the more socialist agenda forwarded by the democrats.

i'm sure that our more politically active members will disagree, but this is the view from outside.

[Psycho4Bud]

republican outlook and a pro-weed stance aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. a true republican view is one of limited governmental interference and capitalistic freedom, all the rest is merely to lure in the special interest groups and create the illusion of a difference between the two parties. legalization is actually more in line with the original republican point of view than the more socialist agenda forwarded by the democrats.

i'm sure that our more politically active members will disagree, but this is the view from outside.

VERY well put! Which party is always out to save your health? Anti-cigarettes, booze, etc.? It'll be the Republican party to finally give in to legalization because of the creation of jobs and taxation of the product. Money talks bullshit walks.....or in this case Donkey shit.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

a true republican view is one of limited governmental interference and capitalistic freedom,...legalization is actually more in line with the original republican point of view


Here's where I'm having a hard time understanding. I don't see anyone espousing these true and original points of view. I live in a predominantly Republican state, and I swear nobody sticks to the fucking subject, the subject being the original principles of the republican party. Why is there such disparity between what they're supposed to be about, and what they actually are about?

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

It'll be the Republican party to finally give in to legalization
How are they going to do this and still save face considering the hardline they've publicly toed on drugs?

[Psycho4Bud]

How are they going to do this and still save face considering the hardline they've publicly toed on drugs?

How do people vote FOR something two years ago and now today are "supposedly" completely against it? That's politics.......minds change like the winds.....

Have a good one!:s4:

[VaporDaddy]

Great discussion!
I have been very hard on Republicans/conservatives in the past although I would not say I always agree with the Liberals either. Infact some republican values fall inline with my own. However, the problem I have with with the American Right is the Party is not acting on its own values. IMO you can be a cannabis user AND a Republican BUT you should be very clearly and loudly opposed to many of the current policies and actions. ie; Drug war, etc...
Consider Giulianni declared war on pot smokers while he was mayor of N.Y. jailing tens of thousands for possesion of pot. What would he do as president!? On the other hand Hillary won't even talk about her own weed useand Barrack said he's against medical marijuana.

[Psycho4Bud]

An Oshkosh Republican is doing what many in his party might feel is unthinkable. State Representative Gregg Underheim is introducing a bill to legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes.

Underheim's motives stem from his own bout with prostate cancer.

Like any Republican, Underheim has strong convictions about the legalization of certain drugs, but his attitude about using marijuana for medicinal purposes changed after doctors removed his cancerous prostate.

Although Underheim didn't take any marijuana in his recovery, he was told of others who could have used it. "One of the themes that echoed consistently was the difficulty of chemotherapy."
WBAY-TV Green Bay-Fox Cities-Northeast Wisconsin News: Republican Lawmaker Introduces Medicinal Marijuana Bill (http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=1585590&nav=51s7JyCn)


Rubin, who describes himself as a Republican admirer of President Ronald Reagan and preaches in front of a U.S. flag, says his beliefs are sincere. He has Friday night services where smoking marijuana is part of the ritual and preaches twice more on the weekends, using texts from Old Testament on Saturday and the New Testament on Sunday, the newspaper said.

While he has been a marijuana enthusiast since his college days, Rubin told the Daily News that he became convinced it is the tree of life during a family crisis three years ago.
Preacher faces prison for marijuana ritual (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/34946.html)

Have a good one!:s4:

[VaporDaddy]

An Oshkosh Republican is doing what many in his party might feel is unthinkable. State Representative Gregg Underheim is introducing a bill to legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes.

Underheim's motives stem from his own bout with prostate cancer.

Like any Republican, Underheim has strong convictions about the legalization of certain drugs, but his attitude about using marijuana for medicinal purposes changed after doctors removed his cancerous prostate.

Although Underheim didn't take any marijuana in his recovery, he was told of others who could have used it. "One of the themes that echoed consistently was the difficulty of chemotherapy."
WBAY-TV Green Bay-Fox Cities-Northeast Wisconsin News: Republican Lawmaker Introduces Medicinal Marijuana Bill (http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=1585590&nav=51s7JyCn)


Rubin, who describes himself as a Republican admirer of President Ronald Reagan and preaches in front of a U.S. flag, says his beliefs are sincere. He has Friday night services where smoking marijuana is part of the ritual and preaches twice more on the weekends, using texts from Old Testament on Saturday and the New Testament on Sunday, the newspaper said.

While he has been a marijuana enthusiast since his college days, Rubin told the Daily News that he became convinced it is the tree of life during a family crisis three years ago.
Preacher faces prison for marijuana ritual (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/34946.html)

Have a good one!:s4:

I imagine he would introduce pro welfare legislation too if he was poor all of a sudden lol

[delusionsofNORMALity]

It'll be the Republican party to finally give in to legalization....

i wouldn't count on that. as the republicans scramble to curry favor with special interest groups like big business and the religious right, they seem to lose sight of the original goals of their party. they have become the party of reactionaries with minds trapped firmly in a cold war daze, constantly searching for another enemy to blame for their inevitable failings.

we seem to be caught in a choice between stalinesque fools and brown shirted thugs and i'm not sure which is worse.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

I imagine he would introduce pro welfare legislation too if he was poor all of a sudden lol
I was thinking something similar. It seems nobody wants dope until they are the ones throwing up their assholes from chemo.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Where did my other post go? Anyway, I said I didn't think a kook like Rubin was exactly going to help the cause any, especially since he wants to drag religion into it.

[medicinal]

Amazingly enough, I was on another site riddled with right wing nazis and they were all potheads, it blew my mind, being from the hippie days of peace and love that absolutely hated Republican assholes like Richard Nixon. So I can see clearly that being a Pothead has nothing to do with intelligence but rather love of being high. I couldn't believe that a person could get high and champion killing innocent civilians in an illegal war, torturing people in the name of intelligence gathering, and outsourcing American jobs for less money to make a better bottom line, yet that is exactly what these right wing kooks advocate. These assholes in the guise of patriotism are for giving away the American dream so a few rich guys can amass even more money, War is just a means to an end, the end being more money for them. People like Bong are enticed into their beliefs through fear, the islamists are coming, the islamists are coming, Bullshit! It is The USA that has caused all the mayhem going on all over the globe through their their fucked up foriegn policies. The corporate moguls are running the US and Cheney and Bush are just puppets. When the American people finally open their eyes (If ever) maybe some semblence of intelligence can be re-injected into the America I used to love.

[Psycho4Bud]

Where did my other post go?

?????? nothing moved or deleted here. Must have hit the wrong key........

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[Psycho4Bud]

Amazingly enough, I was on another site riddled with right wing nazis and they were all potheads, it blew my mind, being from the hippie days of peace and love that absolutely hated Republican assholes like Richard Nixon. So I can see clearly that being a Pothead has nothing to do with intelligence but rather love of being high.

And those of us that lean to the right hope that America don't judge us by the left wing tokers that CLEARLY look at the world through a cloud of smoke. SOME of us can smoke a joint and still hold a grasp on reality. Don't worry, your tolorance will build up eventually.:D

Have a good one!:s4:

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Fellas, this is degenerating. Next thing you know, Myth1184 will come in here and put the whole thread in the crapper.

Let's get back to the issue at hand, that being convincing Mrs. G that the republicans aren't going to make it even harder for cannabis users than it already is. I want to know:

1. Is the general republican stance on cannabis the same as it is on other issues i.e. I got mine, now you get yours?
2. Are republicans willing to run in place, or even go backwards on cannabis issues as long as a candidate protects other republican issues, such as gun control. IOW, if a tradeoff has to be made, is there a sufficient commitment to cannabis related issues? Or will they get tossed by the wayside?
3. Does anyone really think Rubin is helping matters by mixing it with religion? If so, why? If not, why?
4. Do you believe being able to consume cannabis comes under the heading of "personal liberty", and thus should be decriminalized, or do you approve of medical use only, and if so, how will this affect your consumption of cannabis?
5. What do you see as a real, viable workaround to the dichotomy between "family values", and the very lucrative potential that cannabis has? How do you think it can be regulated and taxed, and yet still appease the Bible Belters that the republican party has associated itself with?

Okay, I think that's enough for now.

[medicinal]

My tolerance is at the bursting point. I see the destruction done to my country by selfish assholes that put their own interests before the good of society. Hey, it doesnt take rocket science intelligence to be selfish, any third grade mentality will do. Me, my, mine, I, It's all about you and what you are all about, yeah lets make the world better for me, fuck everyone else. And there you have it, the Me generation, instant gratification, no matter the consequences. The football mentality, do unto others before they do unto you, Hey idiots, that was a game, this is life, have a little compassion, tolerance, and lift up your potential to be human. we don't always have to win, we can come in second and still be happy. Hey we're already a lot further down in a lot of areas where we were once first, Health care, Infant mortality, there is a long list of losing positions in the grand scheme of things. Maybe if we didn't try and Bully the world and paid attention to our own needs as a country, we could regain our place as the shining light of humanity, and lead by example, now theres a novel idea!

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Medicinal, man I respect what you're saying. But that's a generalized list of woes. I started this thread because I wanted to hear specifically about cannabis and the republican party.

So, how about you telling me your views on the Me Generation and how this is affecting cannabis related legislation?:)

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Oh I just thought of something else I want to know:
To those of you who deride the hippy potsmokers, do you view your cannabis use as nothing more than, say, the equivalent of having a drink or two after work, or do you participate in the cannabis culture? If the former, why consume cannabis? Why not just have that (legal) scotch on the rocks?

[Zimzum]

Only one pro cannabis republican that I know of, Ron Paul. You would think It would be a republican to decriminalize it. It does fit into there smaller government ideology, but republicans also seem to want to force morality on us too. When you bring god into the picture it makes things much more complicated then it needs to me. Most religions are against self indulgence. But no, I do believe it will be a Democrat or 3rd party to make the first steps.

But then again they got gay republicans voting against gay rights. Maybe they got potheads voting against marijuana as well.

[VaporDaddy]

You can take my weed, when you pry it from my cold, dead hand!



Sorry Mrs. G I just had to say that. lol

:jointsmile:

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Let's get back to the issue at hand, that being convincing Mrs. G that the republicans aren't going to make it even harder for cannabis users than it already is....

if you're looking for a pro-cannabis choice you're not gonna find it. there are far too many bigger items on the table for them to start openning up that can of worms.

1.the republicans don't give a flying fuck about your rights or anyone else's. they are perfectly happy with the status quo on the issue of drug legalization.

2.these are just politicians we're talking about here. they are more than willing to sacrifice their own mothers to push through the legislations that are dear to their hearts.

3.only mainstream issues are helped or hindered by mixing religion into the pot and legalization is not seen as a mainstream issue.

4.consuming cannabis or any other substance is of no harm to anyone and the government should never have stuck its nose in in the first place, but my views on that are obvious and well documented on this and other sites. believe me, you don't want to get me started on that subject.

5.time heals all wounds. if you expect ignorance to be overcome quickly you're bound to be sorely disappointed. it's taken many years to build this wall of intolerance around the usage of a simple herb and it will take many more to reverse the lies and half-truths that have been planted in people's minds.

republicans are too caught up in enforcing their version of morality and democrats are too concerned with saving us from ourselves with meaningless regulations and social programs. neither of these ideologies is conducive to an atmosphere of tolerance for the foibles of the few.

without a viable third party i think you'd best just keep your plants well hidden and your bong in a locked cupboard.

[Oneironaut]

Well, anybody of any political persuasion can figure out smoking pot is fun. But there is a real tendency for Republicans to not be potheads and for potheads to not be Republicans. It's not an absolute, but it's a correlation that needs explaining.

I think Republicans are mostly against weed because they tend to be very Christian and very patriotic. A strong obedience to church and state creates a state of mental dependence based on fear, causing a lot of people to blindly follow tradition and authority when it tells them certain things (like weed) are taboo. Republicans are less likely to have exposure to weed smokers, and are less likely to try it to begin with. One major factor in potheads' distrust of Republicans is the fact that Republicans have been participating in the screwing over of potheads over for the past 70 years.

Also, the pot culture puts a big emphasis on sharing weed. You smoke other people up, they smoke you up, it all works out in the end. This clashes with the Republican advocacy of cut-throat greed-driven capitalism.

There are also cultural factors that drive the negative correlation between Republicans and stoners. The very left-leaning hippie movement contributed immensely to the popularization of cannabis in the US. Hippies tend to be on the left, and people who hang out with hippies tend to be on the left, and children of people who hung out with hippies tend to be on the left, and friends of children of people who hung out with hippies tend to be on the left. As the cannabis culture grows, so do left-wing ideals, because of the continuing influence of the hippie ideology. It is often very watered down hippie ideology, sure, but it's still enough to make stoners less likely to pick the Republican candidate on the ballot.

[Psycho4Bud]

1. Is the general republican stance on cannabis the same as it is on other issues i.e. I got mine, now you get yours?

LMAO! Kind of a one sided convo here don't ya think? I don't see the Kerrys and Kennedys sharing whats theirs.

2. Are republicans willing to run in place, or even go backwards on cannabis issues as long as a candidate protects other republican issues, such as gun control. IOW, if a tradeoff has to be made, is there a sufficient commitment to cannabis related issues? Or will they get tossed by the wayside?

There are no trade-offs for some issues. Fact is when the economic + is brought to light there will be much more support.

3. Does anyone really think Rubin is helping matters by mixing it with religion? If so, why? If not, why?

I think it helps matters. Just more people bringing it to the light. Another example of someone wanting to exercise their beliefs with LESS government controls; holds to the republican format.

4. Do you believe being able to consume cannabis comes under the heading of "personal liberty", and thus should be decriminalized, or do you approve of medical use only, and if so, how will this affect your consumption of cannabis?

I believe in the legalization of ALL drugs for personal or medical use. FREE COUNTRY! Take the $ out of the hands of the gang bangers and put it to some good use. Whether it be a joint or a line, it should be my choice.

5. What do you see as a real, viable workaround to the dichotomy between "family values", and the very lucrative potential that cannabis has? How do you think it can be regulated and taxed, and yet still appease the Bible Belters that the republican party has associated itself with?

$$$.....Money talks and bullshit walks. The republicans may have the religious extremists but at least they don't have the Fonda's doing the crotch crawl on an enemys tank. BOTH sides have their extremists.....the real question is what vested interests they have in the alchohol and pharmaceutical companies.

Regulation and tax....pretty much the same as the alchohol industry. I wonder how they would handle the "growers" though. Would this be a new clasification of moonshiner?

Okay, I think that's enough for now.

I know it's a bit off topic but with the Democrats nose into EVERYTHING that may be bad for our health, what makes you think that this would be the pro-marijuana party? Smoke, second hand smoke, ozone layer, OMG!!!:eek:

Have a good one!:s4:

[Zimzum]

I know it's a bit off topic but with the Democrats nose into EVERYTHING that may be bad for our health, what makes you think that this would be the pro-marijuana party? Smoke, second hand smoke, ozone layer, OMG!!!:eek:

Have a good one!:s4:

Democrats will do it more so for medical reasons. Kerry and Kennedy are both pro mmj. Compassion for the sick. Look at the fuss republicans and the religious right put up when that girl in Florida had the feeding tube removed after years of being on it. They want to tell me that girl was leading a great life as a vegetable and should continue to live that way until natural death.

The republican way of compassion is with prayer not medication or science.

[tuscani]

I am a pro-pot republican....I don't see why you would think republican and pro cannabis are mutually exclusive....since the days of yellow journalism and racism have passed, most conservative americans are aware that cannabis doesnt pose much threat to the prosperity of our nation. However, there is no reason to expect a push for legalization by any political officials, because to tell you the truth, the country has more important things to deal with other than the legalization of a damn plant...who cares, I am able to obtain it w/o problems, and I could easily cultivate my own plants for personal use without any troubles.

[Psycho4Bud]

Democrats will do it more so for medical reasons. Kerry and Kennedy are both pro mmj.

"Senators Kerry and Kennedy are absolutely right," said Steve Fox, director of government relations for the Marijuana Policy Project in Washington, D.C. "The DEA is legally bound to grant this application. We expect that this will finally put an end to the DEA's infuriating practice of single-handedly blocking effective research on the therapeutic benefits of marijuana while claiming, with no sense of irony, that marijuana is not a medicine because no research proves that it has medicinal value."

In a study of patients receiving government-grown medical marijuana published last year, neurologist Ethan Russo described the NIDA marijuana as "a crude, low-grade product." An article in the Jan. 24, 2003, San Mateo County Times quoted doctors, patients, and local officials who complained that the low quality of NIDA's marijuana was driving patients out of a county-supported medical marijuana trial being conducted at the San Mateo Medical Center.
Marijuana Policy Project (http://www.commondreams.org/news2003/1024-04.htm)


In order to deal with the problem of illegal drugs in this country, efforts must be focused on keeping drugs out of the country and our communities, as well as reducing demand for illegal drugs. John Kerry supports aggressively targeting traffickers and dealers, as well as making a commitment to sufficiently fund drug prevention and treatment programs.
Source: Campaign website, JohnKerry.com, "Issues" Mar 21, 2004
John Kerry on Drugs (http://www.issues2002.org/2004/John_Kerry_Drugs.htm)

I guess he was for it before he was against it..........where did I hear that one before????:D

Have a good one!:s4:

[thcbongman]

Can somebody please please please explain to me how one can be both Republican and pro-cannabis? Reassure me that there are indeed pro-cannabis Republicans on Capitol Hill. Do something to convince me that your very political ideals are not in direct contradiction to your personal practices.


First off, everyone's ideologies are variently different, no one would fit perfectly with the typical republican or democratic mold. However I trust the republicans to legalize more than the democrats, although my viewpoint is that neither party truly support the legalization effort.

The bottom line is I think cannabis will eventually be legalized due to it's economic potential. The only thing stopping from republicans from supporting legalization is their christian moral-based voters. Otherwise, at the ideological core they believe in limited regulation, states-rights, and have a less restrictive stance when it comes to personal liberty. They don't have the baby-sitter mentality like the democrats, and that's why democrats will never legalize.

[Zimzum]

because to tell you the truth, the country has more important things to deal with other than the legalization of a damn plant...who cares, I am able to obtain it w/o problems, and I could easily cultivate my own plants for personal use without any troubles.

Prison overcrowding, gang violence, health hazards (look at the grit weed in England) are all part of what comes out of marijuana not being legal. You might be ok now but your views may change when it comes to effect you more personally. Maybe when you're in front of a judge someday and say "it's just a plant!" they'll just let you go scott free.

P4B your 2nd link is a reference to illegal drugs in general. It doesn't state marijuana specifically like the first article. I'm also for marijuana and against much harder and damaging drugs.

[tuscani]

First off, everyone's ideologies are variently different, no one would fit perfectly with the typical republican or democratic mold. However I trust the republicans to legalize more than the democrats, although my viewpoint is that neither party truly support the legalization effort.

The bottom line is I think cannabis will eventually be legalized due to it's economic potential. The only thing stopping from republicans from supporting legalization is their christian moral-based voters. Otherwise, at the ideological core they believe in limited regulation, states-rights, and have a less restrictive stance when it comes to personal liberty. They don't have the baby-sitter mentality like the democrats, and that's why democrats will never legalize.
:rastasmoke: you speak the truth

[harris7]

I am a pro-pot republican....I don't see why you would think republican and pro cannabis are mutually exclusive....

the existance of a pro-pot republican shouldn't really surprize anyone.

Republican = a particular way of running society
Pro-pot = should be anyone to criticaly looks at the issue

[Psycho4Bud]

Prison overcrowding, gang violence, health hazards (look at the grit weed in England) are all part of what comes out of marijuana not being legal. You might be ok now but your views may change when it comes to effect you more personally. Maybe when you're in front of a judge someday and say "it's just a plant!" they'll just let you go scott free.

P4B your 2nd link is a reference to illegal drugs in general. It doesn't state marijuana specifically like the first article. I'm also for marijuana and against much harder and damaging drugs.


Decriminalization

US Senator John Kerry (D-MA) is on record voicing mild support for decriminalizing small amounts of marijuana for personal use. In a November 2003 interview with Rolling Stone Magazine, Kerry said he has little problem with the responsible use of marijuana by adults, stating: "I've met plenty of people in my lifetime who've used marijuana and who I would not qualify as serious addicts -- who use about the same amount as some people drink beer or wine or have a cocktail. I don't get too excited by any of that." However, when asked whether he supported decriminalizing the possession and use of marijuana as a public policy, he replied: "No, not quite.


Medical Marijuana

Kerry is on record voicing mild support for the legalization of marijuana for medicinal purposes. Speaking in January 2004 at the New Hampshire College Convention, Kerry said he opposed federally prosecuting medical marijuana patients who reside in states that have legalized its use. However, Kerry stopped short of endorsing marijuana's therapeutic use, stating (as summarized by the Associated Press), "he wanted to wait for the completion of a study to see what other alternatives might be available ... before deciding whether to legalize it in all states."
John Kerry and marijuana... - Toke Up - Your Online Cannabis Community (http://www.tokeup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3793)

Like I stated........he's for it before he's against it. At least he's consistant.:D

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

Sooooo, he's just one vote in congress, He'll never be president, he's fucked that up too much, What is there now 560 some votes to win, something like that, so I don't think kerrys thinking is too pertinent to the legalization process, but I guess you just wanted to get in a dig! You shouldn't waste your efforts on Kerry, go after the big fishes, Hillarious and Obamamama, maybe even John Edwarts! Just a suggestion as I know you are too busy to think. ~LOL~BTW, Our Iraq Bets still On, right?

[Psycho4Bud]

Just a suggestion as I know you are too busy to think. ~LOL~BTW, Our Iraq Bets still On, right?

LMAO! Don't worry, I got plenty of time to think, just really don't have to when I debate you. And hell yes! The bet is on.......:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

...since the days of yellow journalism and racism have passed,* ..who cares, I am able to obtain it w/o problems, and I could easily cultivate my own plants for personal use without any troubles**.
* You made Pepsi come out of my nose. I don't know which parallel universe United States you live in, but those days are anything but over.

**This is the answer to the question I asked. It's "screw you, I've got what I need, to hell with the rest of you, sorry 'bout your luck"

That clears things up enormously.

[HiInOC]

I guess he was for it before he was against it..........where did I hear that one before????:D

Have a good one!:s4:



HAHA that was greattttttttt

highlight of this post

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Regulation and tax....pretty much the same as the alchohol industry. I wonder how they would handle the "growers" though. Would this be a new clasification of moonshiner?


I know it's a bit off topic but with the Democrats nose into EVERYTHING that may be bad for our health, what makes you think that this would be the pro-marijuana party? Smoke, second hand smoke, ozone layer, OMG!!!

I was wondering about the growers myself. Personally, I come from a long line of bootleggers, so me growing dope is just a variation on a theme. Damn revenuers!;)

To address the part about the democrats trying to save us from ourselves, I blame the insurance lobby for a lot of this bullshit legislation that gets passed. Once again, always follow the money. The insurance folks regulate personal behaviour so that they don't have to pay out benefits to people whose health may have been damaged by overindulgence in one substance or another. If you realize lower insurance premiums because you quit smoking it's not because anyone cares about you. It's because they don't want to have to pay for your iron lung further down the road. And politicians on both sides of the fence toady to whoever has the most money. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

[Iplaybass182]

Medicinal I hav e seen you and other "liberals" refer to this war as illegal but have not yet heard the backing to this believe I would just like to hear this explained. Thank you and anyone else who has this view can respond.

[bud luv]

Republicans classicly defer HEAVILY to states' rights in most statutory issues, but when it comes to drug policy they're federalists all of a sudden. This monumental hypocrisy on the holiest of herbs can't be ignored.

And Rebgirl - you're more concerned about losing your right to bear arms than you are about being persecuted for bud? That's hilarious. Your gun rights are derived directly from the Constitution, and the only party who tries to take away Constitutional rights is the GOP. Dems won't take away your gun rights (unless you want to own a sherman tank, in which case I don't know what to tell you), but Reps will fight MMJ legalization.

[bud luv]

They don't have the baby-sitter mentality like the democrats, and that's why democrats will never legalize.

Babysitter? Link?

If anybody's trying to legislate morality, it's the Reps.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Medicinal I hav e seen you and other "liberals" refer to this war as illegal but have not yet heard the backing to this believe I would just like to hear this explained. Thank you and anyone else who has this view can respond.
I already asked Medicinal to stick to the subject at hand on this thread. I ask you to do the same.

[thcbongman]

Babysitter? Link?

If anybody's trying to legislate morality, it's the Reps.

Both parties do. The difference is democrats tend to legislate items that stem private enterprise and statutes that protect us from ourselves. An example of this is the smoking ban. Rather than keeping this decision in the hands of each private establishment, they enforce it upon everyone. This is going in the direction of prohibition, not legalization. One can argue the health issues it resolves, but it displays the mentality of the democrat platform. Easing laws on medical marijuana might happen under democrats, but never full legalization. It's not within the ideology of the party base.

The republican party is messed up, but at the ideological core, conservative line of thinking hold a more sensible view when it comes to legalization.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

.... conservative line of thinking hold a more sensible view when it comes to legalization.

the flaw there is that conservatives resist change. this prohibition has been around long enough to be considered an integral part of the political landscape and conservatives are notorious for their love of the status quo.

[Bong30]

I am a super POT head...some people call me right leaning......LOL


Last election.....went with (R)s the whole way and voted YES on marijuana.

it was easy......

Libs think that once you vote Republican.... the voting machine locks the NO vote for Marijuana.....(part of the disorder...LOL) ie voter fraud

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Delusions, once again your posts stand out as being the most realistic and balanced I've seen, while remaining refreshingly free of hyperbole.

And unlike some who seem to be afflicted with adult ADD, you stick to the subject.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Hey Bong, you're a good one to ask about this, primarily because you're on right now ;)

Do you view your cannabis consumption as part of a bigger picture i.e. a lifestyle or ideology, or is it no more than the equivalent of having a couple of drinks?

[Bong30]

Mrs.G,


It has changed for me over the years.....I used to do it when I would skate or snowboard....hanging with my friends......

Then I realized i was self medicating my self......to deal with my child hood.

Now...Marijuana is My anti drug.....

I had a super bad coke problem, like doing it every day for 3 years....

Now I smoke to keep chill and to keep the cravings for the other down.

I have never Liked alcohol....I used to drink all the time.....But i havnt even had a beer in 6 months.....now

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Thanks Bong. One more question: Does cannabis consumption represent anything to you politically? I haven't had nearly enough coffee this morning, so bear with me. Um, when you think of the struggle for decriminalization/legalization, do you think of it in terms of being a small part of a bigger overall push for personal autonomy?

[delusionsofNORMALity]

And unlike some who seem to be afflicted with adult ADD, you stick to the subject.

well, i wouldn't go that far. it's hard to stick with one subject when it's all so interrelated and i do tend to wander toward my pet peeves.

[Bong30]

Thanks Bong. One more question: Does cannabis consumption represent anything to you politically? I haven't had nearly enough coffee this morning, so bear with me. Um, when you think of the struggle for decriminalization/legalization, do you think of it in terms of being a small part of a bigger overall push for personal autonomy?

NO.... I do believe that once My generation (X) (im 36) is in Office. Weed will be legal.

It wont matter (D)s and (R)s people will just realize it does more good than bed and it will be legal.......

i hope and prey that it doesnt become a major political view like Global warming has tunred into....

If we want weed legal we cant make it political........



Im off to work...Bye

[delusionsofNORMALity]

.... If we want weed legal we can't make it political....
that is one of the most sensible and non-sensible things i've ever heard you say and it gets to the root of one of our biggest problems, everything has become political. politics has infiltrated every facet of our lives, it regulates our everyday existence to an extent never dreamed of by the framers of our constitution. 200+ years ago i'm sure they believed that the separation of powers that they built into this government would keep the power hungry at bay, they just didn't stop to think that the separate branches might be so corrupt as to work together to destroy the freedoms that they were created to protect.

[Zimzum]

NO.... I do believe that once My generation (X) (im 36) is in Office. Weed will be legal.



:thumbsup:

Yeah once these people who are stuck with the Reefer madness mentality are out of power will there be change. Its only a matter of time before the baby boomer and the kids of the baby boomer generation fill our political system. We see weed no differently then alcohol and no reason why they can't be "equalized". At the very least I could see America being more like Amsterdam. Not legal but tolerated.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Yeah once these people who are stuck with the Reefer madness mentality are out of power will there be change....

i wouldn't count on it. those in power already know that weed poses no real threat, but they refuse to give up the control that prohibition gives them. what makes you think that the next generation of politicians will be any different. it's not a matter of what's best for the people, it's what's best for the political machine that counts with those folks.

[Zimzum]

i wouldn't count on it. those in power already know that weed poses no real threat, but they refuse to give up the control that prohibition gives them. what makes you think that the next generation of politicians will be any different. it's not a matter of what's best for the people, it's what's best for the political machine that counts with those folks.

Most of the people in power now have been breed to be in power or have held onto power for too long. I can see down the road major change when we as Americans get tired of being stepped on and lied too. Add term limits to all offices of our government. When Senators can't be senators for 50+ years then people will come first. We put more into our military then everything else combined. Once the war on terror comes to an end we will then be back to the war on illiteracy again.

[medicinal]

i wouldn't count on it. those in power already know that weed poses no real threat, but they refuse to give up the control that prohibition gives them. what makes you think that the next generation of politicians will be any different. it's not a matter of what's best for the people, it's what's best for the political machine that counts with those folks.

Absolutely correct. It is the Baby Boomer generation that is running the ship of state right now. They have learned nothing except how to hold on to power. The more laws on the Books, the more protection they have to foist their views on us. Why do you think they passed the patriot act, to protect us,~LOL~it was to protect them from us. If they can jump into your life at any time for any reason (suspicion of terrorists activities) and rendition you to Guantanamo to be held without due process, the fear factor isolates them from us even more. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't want to end up in Guantanamo for calling Bush an asshole, could happen under the patriot act, could be construed as an overt act of terrorism, first I call him an asshole and it escalates to a full blown security threat on the presidents life, this is the insanity of the Patriot Act, it can be interpreted in any crazy way the government wants. Just remember you who voted for this asshole, not once, but god only knows, twice, that it is you that are responsible for all this chaos and this deprivation of our freedoms under the guise of FEAR. The key words are Smoke and Mirrors!

[delusionsofNORMALity]

....I can see down the road major change when we as Americans get tired of being stepped on and lied too....

the capacity of the american people to endure being lied to is unequaled among other so-called free peoples. our hubris has bred a complacency that keeps us blind to the dirty tricks being played on us by our elected officials.

[Zimzum]

the capacity of the american people to endure being lied to is unequaled among other so-called free peoples.

This is the age of information. Most people see whats going on in the world who have access to the internet. I wont say we haven't been lied too but our government isn't trying to tell us the sky is orange. When we are lied to its a slap in the face to every citizen. We want the truth, no matter how bad it maybe. I remember GS going off about FEMA camps. Maybe they are real but for a different purpose. Our government knows our patience runs thin and are preplanned for some type of revolt.

[Psycho4Bud]

I was wondering about the growers myself. Personally, I come from a long line of bootleggers, so me growing dope is just a variation on a theme. Damn revenuers!;)

"Damn revenuers".........good point! It could be where they would have to prove intent to sell or deliver; kind of like Alaska laws.

To address the part about the democrats trying to save us from ourselves, I blame the insurance lobby for a lot of this bullshit legislation that gets passed. Once again, always follow the money. The insurance folks regulate personal behaviour so that they don't have to pay out benefits to people whose health may have been damaged by overindulgence in one substance or another. If you realize lower insurance premiums because you quit smoking it's not because anyone cares about you. It's because they don't want to have to pay for your iron lung further down the road. And politicians on both sides of the fence toady to whoever has the most money. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

You still didn't answer why you think the Dems would be the pro-cannabis party.....

I still say that the U.S. should be run by business people instead of lawyers. When your dealing with a 12 trillion dollar economy with credits, debits, inventory levels, etc........how can a personal lawsuit attorney like Edwards be considered as the shit? NOT saying it's JUST Edwards....just an example.

Besides that....wouldn't a business man see the potential for profits with cannabis?

Have a good one!:s4:

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

You still didn't answer why you think the Dems would be the pro-cannabis party.....


That's because I never said that.:D

[delusionsofNORMALity]

This is the age of information. Most people see whats going on in the world who have access to the internet....

we've got information coming out our asses. i can find sites that will tell me just about anything i want to know and then i can turn around and find a site that will tell me how full of shit the first site was and then another with a completely different set of facts and so on and so on....

are you getting the picture yet? with information comes misinformation and disinformation and a slew of varying shades of grey. it all depends on who you put your trust in and we have no one left to trust. conspiracy theorists aside, the american people are still putting their trust in a system of checks and balances that have been letting them down for years.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

I still say that the U.S. should be run by business people instead of lawyers....
....wouldn't a business man see the potential for profits with cannabis?

lawyers are only there to do the dirty work for those who control the reins. they make great figureheads and shills because they are, for the most part, articulate and perform well before a crowd.

as for the profitability of cannabis:

profit is not only reckoned in dollars and cents. money is only one aspect of power and power over the lives of millions is the goal of politics.

[Guerrero]

I'm republican but I don't think that either party has a lock on mj laws. The republicans are too afraid of offending conservative christians(which I am), and Democrats are too afraid of being politically correct (look at what they do with tobacco). It will come down to the people of the states. When enough tell their representatives of their will, then it can make some headway. But it has to be a BIG majority before anything will be done. Many officials on both sides of the aisle would be for new laws now, but it will never happen until they can rest assured that they won't be kicked out of office for their stance. Power is the only truly important thing to politicians, on the right and the left.

[Zimzum]

Both of you stop this. Politics only has lax rule set, not an absolute no holds bard. This name calling goes beyond politics, go ask for a flame board on here.