Questions to peoeple who believe in god?

[Feebs420]

It is a fact that the Roman and Greek gods were no real and that they created the gods as an answer to that which they could not answer.

1.)What makes today gods different to any of the roman gods who we know are not real?

2.) What happens to god when all the humans on earth die?

3.) Why did the one god choose Earth as his planet were he would start a civilization which would end up destroying itself in the end. (Im not saying we will destroy ourselves, but i think its pretty inevitable.)

I've asked many people how long god has been around and they always say "God has been here forever". Then i ask them how the earth was made and they say "God made the Earth". I then ask them "Is it possible for the Earth to have been here forever?" and they say "No the earth had to have been created, there is no way for something to just be here if it was created at some point in time."

4.) Why is it then that God can be here forever and not have been created if it is impossible for something to be here without being created.

Sorry in advance if this doesnt make any sense, im baked and having one of my moments :D.

[thcbongman]

I believe in god, but not in a traditional sense. I been raised a buddhist, so much of my beliefs are centered around that philosophy. When I talk of a god, it's not in a sense of a mythic being, but the connection of energy of life, the environment. I believe were merely an extension of god, were all one with god. I learned through spiritual psychedelic trips that god is a completely neutral state. I don't believe it to be good or evil, because all the decisions in one's life can turn in either direction. God is the energy everyone draws from, a sense of power, from within and what's around you.

1. I believe the interpretations of god by religions revolve around creating mythic figures for the human to better understand the concept. It's used as a tool to relate to the messages. Stories essentially. These are mere perceptions and images. The messages in all religions are essentially the same when it comes down to it. They all explain were all one with god in the end, but many are so focused on the traditions, and differences that everyone forgets what it means to believe in god.

2. When one dies, his interpretation of god disappears with him. I believe as long as there is life, there is god. I don't believe god is a creator, life is what creates and maintains this world.

3. I don't think there's a plausable explanation, considering we have not discovered others out there. Maybe in time, this question can be answered, but we leave it as one of life's mysteries. As long as there was life, there is and was god.

4. Belief in god comes down to one thing, faith. I think there is too little information out there to make a determination, perhaps one day we'll find out, perhaps we won't. But we as humans are here to stay as long we determined to. This is all god, we are everything. I'll end this with lyrics from a song called God by the band Apollo Sunshine, which musically explains my beliefs.

You find god, the moment you, realize you don't need to find god
you find god, the moment you, realize you don't need to find god

we exist, all of this, this is all god, we are everything
we exist, all of this, this is all god, we are everything

this is the kingdom, we are the people, so open your doors and breathe in deeply
this is the kingdom, we are the people, so open your doors and breathe in deeply
this is the kingdom, we are the people, so open your doors and breathe in deeply

[delusionsofNORMALity]

your original premise is faulty. we have no way to prove that the greek and roman gods did/do not exist. they have merely been supplanted by a new series of mythologies, so your first question is ruled out as it was based on this faulty premise.

according to christian mythology man is dependent on god, not the other way around. once man no longer exists the universe will be as it was before man and god would probably do whatever it was doing before it came up with the absurd notion of humanity.

every experiment needs a place to reside and here is as good a place as any. your third question has no meaningful answer. it's like asking "why is fire hot?", because that is what we have chosen to call the feeling of flame interacting with flesh. why were we placed here? because no matter where this experiment took place it would still be here to us.

your last question is based on the underlying reason for the existence of religion. forever is a long, long time and we have difficulty understanding such concepts as eternity. though we easily understand things that have a beginning and an end, we seem to need some other in order to grasp the concept of eternity. this other always existed so we don't have to try to understand that which is beyond our understanding. it's a case of magic taking the place of logic, but it seems to satisfy those who are willing to take that leap.

to ask for logical answers from those who believe in magic is in itself illogical, but good luck with your quest.


the preceding was written by an atheist who is violently opposed to the proliferation of religious fallacies and spiritual deceit.

[OlderDude]

Wow...that argument made little sense. Perhaps you should share. Personally I'm not a religious individual, however the basis for any religion is Faith. You can argue the details of existence and creation until you are blue in the face. Faith is the determining factor in all religion.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

...that argument made little sense....

for the moment i will take for granted that you weren't talking about my post since i gave no argument, but in case you were referring to my opinions perhaps you could explain what is confusing you.

[Polymirize]

yeah, but you did totally catch that first premise. So, I think you deserve props anyway.

[RichieRich]

It is a fact that the Roman and Greek gods were no real and that they created the gods as an answer to that which they could not answer.

1.)What makes today gods different to any of the roman gods who we know are not real?

2.) What happens to god when all the humans on earth die?

3.) Why did the one god choose Earth as his planet were he would start a civilization which would end up destroying itself in the end. (Im not saying we will destroy ourselves, but i think its pretty inevitable.)

I've asked many people how long god has been around and they always say "God has been here forever". Then i ask them how the earth was made and they say "God made the Earth". I then ask them "Is it possible for the Earth to have been here forever?" and they say "No the earth had to have been created, there is no way for something to just be here if it was created at some point in time."

4.) Why is it then that God can be here forever and not have been created if it is impossible for something to be here without being created.

Sorry in advance if this doesnt make any sense, im baked and having one of my moments :D.

Boy you asked alot of great questions man. That must have been some righteous weed :thumbsup:

Christians believe that God has always been. He is the source of all life and all creation. But thats a tough one to swallow I know. But even if you ask the athiest and evolution people they have issues with that one as well. If there were gases, particles and so forth in space that gathered togehter to cause the big bang, who made the gases? Who made space?
Thats why way smarter people like Einstein believed in intelligent design.
Good luck on your search man! Peace..:jointsmile:

[mrdevious]

You also bring up some good points RichieRich. Hopefully we'll have all these answers at some point, but here's my take...



Christians believe that God has always been.

Oddly though, the inverse itself is not alotted the same benefit of the doubt. I suppose, though, that god could be something that transcends energy or matter, and it is therefor matter and energy that are not alotted the same benefit of the doubt. However, energy be definitition is the catylist of all action, so I'm not sure how that would work. If you take a dip into quantum physics you'll find some interesting stuff, and undoubtedly change your view on the nature of existence and our separation of matter, energy, and "nothingness".


He is the source of all life and all creation. But thats a tough one to swallow I know.

Thankyou for acknowledging that. It seems fellows like Pascal inevitably have their logic scewed by interpreting their world to match up with their presuppositions. A big reason it's difficult to convince the atheist is because we've stepped out of that realm where all our views are coloured by a presupposition, and all our reasoning must come back to it.



But even if you ask the athiest and evolution people they have issues with that one as well. If there were gases, particles and so forth in space that gathered togehter to cause the big bang, who made the gases?

Keep in mind that the big bang is only a theory based on second-hand observations. It is not the definitive and be-all answer nor is it claimed to be, only a proposed explanation for the movement of the universe. The question though, cannot automatically go to "who" made it, when we can just as easily say "what" made it. In fact, considering that conscious thought is the product of an incredibly complex biological system designed for survival in a particular environment, how would it be logical to assume that consciousness would also arise from an entirely unrelated set of circumstances? To suggest a "who" usually suggests a consciousness, the ultimate consciousness of god. But why, in the midst of nothingness, would something like consciousness arise?



Who made space?

Who made god? I dunno. But the question of who made space, who made "somethingness", is one that has perplexed people since the beginning of time. Of course as I stated above, we are far too dependant on the notion that everything has to be the product of a "who" when there's no evidence to suggest such. Anywhoo, I'd suggest everybody read up on quantum physics, space-time, special and general relativity, and evolution. Most stuff is much harder to dismiss if you actually study and understand it.



Thats why way smarter people like Einstein believed in intelligent design.

But, you're commiting the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority. An appeal to authority is where you take someone highly accomplished in one field, and use him/her as a standard by which all other opinions are set. Einstein was a master of understanding relativity, space-time, and mathematics. He was not necessarily a master of logic, and his credentials do not point to such. You can find plenty of the smartest people to ever live who have opinions both ways, but none of them citable sources just because they display intelligence in a particular field.

[slipknotpsycho]

1.)What makes today gods different to any of the roman gods who we know are not real?


because a book says so :rolleyes:

i believe in a higher power... but i do not believe in any religion (or ones that i know of atleast) that are present today.. i don't believe there is some being capable of setting rules, or punishment for not following them...

the whole idea of christianity to me is just ridiculous..

i believe in karma... do to others as you'd have them do to you.. and...
whatever you do eventually comes back to you... you do good deeds out of the goodness of your heart, and eventually you will be rewarded for it (that's not to say however you can do good things just expecting something good to happen, that more or less goes into greed, and greed almost always lies in darkness...) do bad to others, and you will recieve bad as well...

i just try to live a wholesome normal life for the most part...

[higher4hockey]

faith brother, you either have it or you don't. simple as that.

[jdmarcus59]

jesus said I,am the way, the truth, and the life.
My sheep hear my voces, and they follow Me, and I give them life

[Frank_The_Tank]

just some thoughts i had stuck in my head...

Think as the universe as a foreign entity on its death bed. The entity is dying because on almost all of the known planets there is no life. Consiter the planets cells of this entity. On our planet there was a almost perfect natural balance or preserving life.(trees consume co2 and produce oxygen and mammals produce co2 and consume oxygen) Our earth 10million years ago would be consitered a healthy cell. We can then look at what changed this natural balance. Humans came along slowly destroying this balance and destroying the planet. I believe humans once existed on all planets but had already destroyed theselves a long time ago. If the universe was an entity and the planets were cells of a body , than that would make humanity a deadly disease.


Look at this theory equivilent to a human desease. Slowly spreading throughout the cell , killing the cell , then spreading to other cells. I believe this process would be going on for infinate generations. Each cell in our body a living universe and disease within that cell a form of the human race.

When i first thought of this theory it blew my mind i pondered on it for many days. I hope you can understand


Damn i read this over like 6 times trying to make it make sence. i hope you can figure it out for your self. :rasta:

[jdmarcus59]

It is a fact that the Roman and Greek gods were no real and that they created the gods as an answer to that which they could not answer.

1.)What makes today gods different to any of the roman gods who we know are not real?

2.) What happens to god when all the humans on earth die?

3.) Why did the one god choose Earth as his planet were he would start a civilization which would end up destroying itself in the end. (Im not saying we will destroy ourselves, but i think its pretty inevitable.)

I've asked many people how long god has been around and they always say "God has been here forever". Then i ask them how the earth was made and they say "God made the Earth". I then ask them "Is it possible for the Earth to have been here forever?" and they say "No the earth had to have been created, there is no way for something to just be here if it was created at some point in time."

4.) Why is it then that God can be here forever and not have been created if it is impossible for something to be here without being created.

Sorry in advance if this doesnt make any sense, im baked and having one of my moments :D.you are looking at the wrong side of the apple,
when you can understand the answesrs,then you can begin to understand
the qustion

[jdmarcus59]

I believe in god, but not in a traditional sense. I been raised a buddhist, so much of my beliefs are centered around that philosophy. When I talk of a god, it's not in a sense of a mythic being, but the connection of energy of life, the environment. I believe were merely an extension of god, were all one with god. I learned through spiritual psychedelic trips that god is a completely neutral state. I don't believe it to be good or evil, because all the decisions in one's life can turn in either direction. God is the energy everyone draws from, a sense of power, from within and what's around you.

1. I believe the interpretations of god by religions revolve around creating mythic figures for the human to better understand the concept. It's used as a tool to relate to the messages. Stories essentially. These are mere perceptions and images. The messages in all religions are essentially the same when it comes down to it. They all explain were all one with god in the end, but many are so focused on the traditions, and differences that everyone forgets what it means to believe in god.

2. When one dies, his interpretation of god disappears with him. I believe as long as there is life, there is god. I don't believe god is a creator, life is what creates and maintains this world.

3. I don't think there's a plausable explanation, considering we have not discovered others out there. Maybe in time, this question can be answered, but we leave it as one of life's mysteries. As long as there was life, there is and was god.

4. Belief in god comes down to one thing, faith. I think there is too little information out there to make a determination, perhaps one day we'll find out, perhaps we won't. But we as humans are here to stay as long we determined to. This is all god, we are everything. I'll end this with lyrics from a song called God by the band Apollo Sunshine, which musically explains my beliefs.

You find god, the moment you, realize you don't need to find god
you find god, the moment you, realize you don't need to find god

we exist, all of this, this is all god, we are everything
we exist, all of this, this is all god, we are everything

this is the kingdom, we are the people, so open your doors and breathe in deeply
this is the kingdom, we are the people, so open your doors and breathe in deeply
this is the kingdom, we are the people, so open your doors and breathe in deeplyreligion is man way to come to some undrestanding,of how to
understand god, are to be able to be good enough to win God favor, by a system of works,Christ cam to do away with the law, and to set man free.
come to know christ, and you will understand life, for He is life.

[mrdevious]

Why do I get the feeling Jdmarcus is using that old theist scapegoat veiled in pseudologic?

"Believe in god, with all your heart, then you'll understand why he exists"

or in less euphamistic terms

"first believe in god, then interpret everything to match up with that preconception, and all the evidence suddenly appears!"

Sorry man, enjoy your faith if that's really where you want to go, but no non-believer is going to gain a respect for a belief that is justified with semi-mystical language that's formulated as such to cover up it's massive logical inadaquacies.

[thewriterandthemuse]

Here's a complete curveball for this whole discussion. What if "God" is something extraterrestrial beyond our understanding? I know traditional Christians believe that the Bible is the true word of God, but then again, who knows what was discarded or translated with a slant when the King James Version was commissioned in the 1600's? (Before that, it was a capital crime to speak or print "the word of God" in anything but Latin... in a society where only 5% were literate, and only the wealthy nobles and priests understood it.)I check up from time to time on a late nite televangelist who currently is the chairperson for linguisticts at Stanford (http://www.drgenescott.com); he and his wife get into some seriously arch-conservatism, but even they run across differences in translation from Greek, Latin, Arameic, and other tongues that fly in the face of institutionalized "mainstream" christianity that they quickly dismiss because it's not in-line with the social tradition.

Hypocrisy. Makes me giggle, even when I'm not lifted.

The Vatican has miles and miles of written material that they refuse to release to the general public, under high security enforced by the Vatican Guard (who are, in fact, Swiss mercenaries... provided for by papal edict during the mid-1800s). A lot of institutionalized Christian tradition is, in fact, co-opted from pagan rituals that Constantine deemed necessary to ease the adoption of the faith as the official religion of the Holy Roman Empire; I can't break them all down ad nauseam, but check out NoBeliefs.com (Freethinkers) (http://www.nobeliefs.com) and Disinformation :: The gateway to the underground - news, politics, conspiracy and weirdness. (http://www.disinfo.com) for some solid breakdowns... and prepare to sacrifice some herb to the fire gods. Joe Rogan (Welcome to JoeRogan.net: Official Site of Comedian Joe Rogan (http://www.joerogan.net), the former host of Fear Factor, has a great posting on his site about monkeys and psychoactive fungus that's worth a read.

I've had some miraculous things happen in my life. I walked away from 2 car wrecks that should have killed me, and my late stepfather came out of brain surgery where he only had a 10% chance of survival (the cancer took him 14 months later when it kicked back into overdrive.) I think that science will always trump religion, no matter what; the "wrath of God" can be explained by our study of thunderstorms, agricultural science, and medicine in general. We know more about our world than ever before, and there's still a lot of shit that's unexplicable that we may never understand. As far as we know, we could very well be an abandoned scientific experiment up for review in 2012 if the Mayans are correct. I don't waste time trying to prove if there's a God in any form, and it's beyond my understanding; I have a hard enough time trying to follow two conversations at the same time, and we're talking about something that's omniscient. I just try to do the best that I can by everyone I come into contact with, and I always seem to get what I give. That translates across every single religion and faith I've ever studied.

Slainte,
thewriterandthemuse (or at least, thewriter half)

PS - Sorry if I offened any traditional Christians out there, but if you're a true follower of Jesus, you'll forgive me.

[PureEvil760]

1. There were and still are greek and roman gods, they were created by the belief that they were real and acctually do have influence in thier areas of speacialty. It works the same today.
2. Theres an infinate amount of planets and life in the underverse, I dont think god would get bored.
3. The adam and eve story is somwhat true, humans did not evolve from monkeys 5 tribes were created in the beginning of human life including lemurians and atlantians which were around during the time of the dinosaurs, why do u think alantis was in the water? to be safe from the dinosaurs. I think god was trying to make a perfect material race kind of like an experiment.
4. Its hard for humans to accept the fact that there was no beginning and no end, we are just programmed to believe that there has to be one.

[sharer6969]

Hello Feebs.

These are all good, fair questions, and I'll try to give a reasonable answer to them.


It is a fact that the Roman and Greek gods were no real and that they created the gods as an answer to that which they could not answer.

1.)What makes today gods different to any of the roman gods who we know are not real?

It depends on what you mean by "not real." Were the Romans right to believe in Divinity and that they rely on Divine Power as does the entire universe? No, I don't think they were. Were they wrong to believe that such a higher power was owed worship, and that injustice was hated by said High Power? No, this is correct.

Really, what the Chrisitan critique is, is not saying "you're ALL wrong, oh heathens", but "you're saying incorrect things about God - you're projecting the worst parts of your culture upon God." Thus, they erred in dividing up the powers of God into seperate cults and deities. They erred in ascribing human motives and failings to the Divine Power, etc.


2.) What happens to god when all the humans on earth die?

Putting aside for a moment the idea that God will always have mankind with Him...really, nothing would happen. When Moses asked God "what is your Name?" the Lord replied "I Am That I Am." In other words, He simply "is" - our existance adds nothing to Him, nor does anything we do diminish Him. This is why the ultimate "why" of our existance will always remain a mystery - who can understand the most hidden reasons of the One Who is infinite?


3.) Why did the one god choose Earth as his planet were he would start a civilization which would end up destroying itself in the end. (Im not saying we will destroy ourselves, but i think its pretty inevitable.)

I don't know that it's correct to say "earth is His planet." It's all His. While I don't have any snappy answers to say how extra terrestrials would fit into a Christian cosmology (though I have given it some thought), there is nothing to say that they do not fit into some common larger scheme with us.


4.) Why is it then that God can be here forever and not have been created if it is impossible for something to be here without being created.

Good question. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty, the answer requires one to take a view of things they may not ordinarily have.

We often look at things in terms of "past, present, and future." While that is certainly how we experience this univese, indeed it seems to be our hard wiring...it's not the only way to perceive things. It's not the only possible way. Just as our linear experience of time often takes the form of a "line", the totality of creation (visible and invisible) could just as well be pictured as a "bubble". A bubble or sphere, floating within a greater sphere, which not only exists beyond the lesser sphere, but infuses and permeats it. And what is beyond that? Ultimately, God.

But what all of these created, "lesser than God" realities have in common is that they are limited. They are "circumscribed" - they have a begining and end, whether you look at it in a linear way (where applicable - really, only in the material realm), "spatially" or even "conceptually."

God on the other hand, is beyond this. Thus, I know this universe is not God (which is really what you're asking), because it is clearly perceivable, multiplied, and limited.

[harris7]

your original premise is faulty. we have no way to prove that the greek and roman gods did/do not exist. they have merely been supplanted by a new series of mythologies, so your first question is ruled out as it was based on this faulty premise.
]

If youâ??d like to break out the Logic terms, then. Were is the burden of proof?
It should be assumed that the greek gods do not exist until it is proven.

As well, I doubt anyone on earth believes in the roman/greek gods.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

It should be assumed that the greek gods do not exist until it is proven.

to an unbeliever the greek or roman pantheons are no more unlikely than the monotheistic mythologies. i was merely pointing out that from my point of view to arbitrarily rule out one set of deities and not another makes no sense. neither can be proven or disproved.

by the way. there are still 47 people living outside of boise that worship zeus on a regular basis.:D

[CommanderChief]

Uhhhh... no offense man but you could have argued much better points than that. If you're interested in Atheism and such go to rationalresponders.com. You'll find shitloads of info there.

[Coelho]

well... i think there is not any number of arguments to prove (or disprove) the existence of god. any argument, is based upon one (or a set of) assumptions, which are arbitrary. so, any argument, if analised throughly until its roots, is just a statement about an arbitrary thing. as its arbitrary, you only can believe it or disbelieve it. all in all, like someone said, its just a matter of faith. even if your faith is in the logic and reason.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

.... you could have argued much better points than that....

these days i only respond to specific questions on that subject, at least i'm trying to get to that point. the arguments for and against are far too circular and i'm into one of my "who gives a shit" phases.;) or maybe i've just gotten bored with this world and am ready to move on to my next assignment.

[mrdevious]

well... i think there is not any number of arguments to prove (or disprove) the existence of god. any argument, is based upon one (or a set of) assumptions, which are arbitrary. so, any argument, if analised throughly until its roots, is just a statement about an arbitrary thing. as its arbitrary, you only can believe it or disbelieve it. all in all, like someone said, its just a matter of faith. even if your faith is in the logic and reason.

dude, no offense and all, but that argument kind of rambled off into some sort of vague redundancy. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, you're probably super stoned ;) . I mean damn, I'm SOOOoooooo (and many "o's" so forth) stoned right now I may not even be reading it right LOL. AH man I love B.C. Bud.

anywhoo..... I don't agree that every decision and perception is arbitrarily decided. We create many perceptions of our reality based on our societal, environmental, and genetic conditioning. But, we still have a tried and proven, and most of all consistant, method of determining the reality of things. As I said, consistancy. A brick wall is consistantly hard to the touch, everybody else you talk to experiences it in exactly the same way. Therefor, we consider the hardness of a brick wall a reality because it is experienced, percieved, and interpreted universally.
It is not a given that all assumptions are arbitrary in nature, because there's a distinct difference between assuming there exists an entity which nobody ever sees (god, santa clause etc.), and assuming a brick wall is hard which is experienced consistantly by all.

essentially, it's when we start thinking of reality in vaugue and non-defined terms that anything can be believable.

[0ffspring]

dude, no offense and all, but that argument kind of rambled off into some sort of vague redundancy. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, you're probably super stoned ;) . I mean damn, I'm SOOOoooooo (and many "o's" so forth) stoned right now I may not even be reading it right LOL. AH man I love B.C. Bud.

anywhoo..... I don't agree that every decision and perception is arbitrarily decided. We create many perceptions of our reality based on our societal, environmental, and genetic conditioning. But, we still have a tried and proven, and most of all consistant, method of determining the reality of things. As I said, consistancy. A brick wall is consistantly hard to the touch, everybody else you talk to experiences it in exactly the same way. Therefor, we consider the hardness of a brick wall a reality because it is experienced, percieved, and interpreted universally.
It is not a given that all assumptions are arbitrary in nature, because there's a distinct difference between assuming there exists an entity which nobody ever sees (god, santa clause etc.), and assuming a brick wall is hard which is experienced consistantly by all.

essentially, it's when we start thinking of reality in vaugue and non-defined terms that anything can be believable.


LMFAO, hah, I think if ya are after disproving the existence of god you would suffer a fate worse than death. Anyways, I'm agnostic, that is, I'm not sure of what exactly I believe in as far as an after-life goes, however I know for sure that if I did not believe in life after death then It would be a paradox, ie, I would cease to exist, this i cannot imagine, obviously because it contradicts existence which is obviously a maintained thing. So i am going to use science to theorize with you in your terms the existence of time and space, which will prove life after death true. Essentially all things are real, whether it is a thought (abstract) or an object (tangible), now, let's say that everything is made of energy, (which has been proven, other than in absolute-zero temperatures, in which things cease to move and the energy is really then stored) electrons and neutrons fuel your brains thought process, much like an atoms core, the nucleus. electrons and neutrons are both fueled by negetive and neutral forces of energy. Ie energy, no matter exists without it, so there you have the physical aspect, right?

Next is the abstract, or the things you cannot 'feel', such as thoughts and, let's just say something like your soul. Energy stimulates your thought process, it should be considered as both a stimulant and conductor. If you will, fm and air waves the radio uses to send out signals, is the same thing as the energy you use to think and work that brain of yours.
I think of it this way, that energy used stores the thoughts you hold, and with the energy delivers the message to your brain. So, our bodies are made of energy just the same as a rock is, whether we die or not the energy is still there and the atoms still move. Now then, what about the energy fueling your brain and thought process? Well obviously it didn't come from no where, and it sure as hell isn't just going to cease to exist because you stop living. I think of all abstracts as products of a soul. Therefore when I die, I will continue to live in this world through that energy, as for my soul, well, all of this just now was theorized off of the top of my head and i believe that is what a soul truly is; energy. Something abstract. What is energy? Eternal. Whether i can think or feel when i am dead does not matter, I will continue to exist.
As for god, I hope there is a god, and maybe a jesus too, but there is no point in me denying it by trying to solve a conundrum and destroy my own happiness i have through faith.

[graph]

Thats why way smarter people like Einstein believed in intelligent design.
Good luck on your search man! Peace..:jointsmile:

Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with idealistic belief. Belief requires the absence of logic, that's why it's called belief. Einstein was lied to about what happens after we die at a very young age, and sadly it stuck.

[mrdevious]

LMFAO, hah, I think if ya are after disproving the existence of god you would suffer a fate worse than death. Anyways, I'm agnostic, that is, I'm not sure of what exactly I believe in as far as an after-life goes, however I know for sure that if I did not believe in life after death then It would be a paradox, ie, I would cease to exist, this i cannot imagine, obviously because it contradicts existence which is obviously a maintained thing. So i am going to use science to theorize with you in your terms the existence of time and space, which will prove life after death true. Essentially all things are real, whether it is a thought (abstract) or an object (tangible), now, let's say that everything is made of energy, (which has been proven, other than in absolute-zero temperatures, in which things cease to move and the energy is really then stored) electrons and neutrons fuel your brains thought process, much like an atoms core, the nucleus. electrons and neutrons are both fueled by negetive and neutral forces of energy. Ie energy, no matter exists without it, so there you have the physical aspect, right?

Next is the abstract, or the things you cannot 'feel', such as thoughts and, let's just say something like your soul. Energy stimulates your thought process, it should be considered as both a stimulant and conductor. If you will, fm and air waves the radio uses to send out signals, is the same thing as the energy you use to think and work that brain of yours.
I think of it this way, that energy used stores the thoughts you hold, and with the energy delivers the message to your brain. So, our bodies are made of energy just the same as a rock is, whether we die or not the energy is still there and the atoms still move. Now then, what about the energy fueling your brain and thought process? Well obviously it didn't come from no where, and it sure as hell isn't just going to cease to exist because you stop living. I think of all abstracts as products of a soul. Therefore when I die, I will continue to live in this world through that energy, as for my soul, well, all of this just now was theorized off of the top of my head and i believe that is what a soul truly is; energy. Something abstract. What is energy? Eternal. Whether i can think or feel when i am dead does not matter, I will continue to exist.
As for god, I hope there is a god, and maybe a jesus too, but there is no point in me denying it by trying to solve a conundrum and destroy my own happiness i have through faith.

I think the essence of what you were saying, then, is the part I bolded. But I have actually heard this before, it's the theory that because energy cannot be destroyed, our consciousness (as an energy) will live on forever. But what exactly is consciousness? Well first of all, you're right that it didn't come from nowhere... it came form chemical reactions which create synaptic energy. Energy coming from matter, just as matter comes from energy.

Consciousness, though, is not simply the energy itself. There is no single energetic neuron carrying a thought, but only RNA sequences encoded in your brain that are stimulated by certain firing neuron energy to trigger a collective action of several millions neurons. Each collective action, each stimulation of the molecular energy in millions of neurons, is what produces thought. Because consciousness is not a floaty ball of energy, but a massively complex collective response, your consciousness cannot continue after death. That is, the energy that makes up your consciousness and the patterns it worked through will fall apart into separate and unorganized forces. The collection of processes is torn apart, and consciousness ceases to exist. Interestingly enough, while this process is explained and understood through biology, chemistry, and physics, it was also the Buddha's explanation of the formation of consciousness and why there is no permanent self. Just billions of processes constantly arising and falling, blinking in and out of existence (you'll want to check out quantum theory on that last part).

[0ffspring]

I think the essence of what you were saying, then, is the part I bolded. But I have actually heard this before, it's the theory that because energy cannot be destroyed, our consciousness (as an energy) will live on forever. But what exactly is consciousness? Well first of all, you're right that it didn't come from nowhere... it came form chemical reactions which create synaptic energy. Energy coming from matter, just as matter comes from energy.

Consciousness, though, is not simply the energy itself. There is no single energetic neuron carrying a thought, but only RNA sequences encoded in your brain that are stimulated by certain firing neuron energy to trigger a collective action of several millions neurons. Each collective action, each stimulation of the molecular energy in millions of neurons, is what produces thought. Because consciousness is not a floaty ball of energy, but a massively complex collective response, your consciousness cannot continue after death. That is, the energy that makes up your consciousness and the patterns it worked through will fall apart into separate and unorganized forces. The collection of processes is torn apart, and consciousness ceases to exist. Interestingly enough, while this process is explained and understood through biology, chemistry, and physics, it was also the Buddha's explanation of the formation of consciousness and why there is no permanent self. Just billions of processes constantly arising and falling, blinking in and out of existence (you'll want to check out quantum theory on that last part).

I agree with what you are saying, and buddha for that matter, as I had said "Whether i can think or feel when i am dead does not matter, I will continue to exist." I realize that it would be impossible to think as energy alone. And you're absolutely right when it comes to the thought process, however i believe that emotions are not a genetic thing, in no way are they learned, even a month old child has emotion, though he or she may not be able to comprehend it as you or I would. I'll leave it at this; There is more to the living than can be identified accurately. And more to the point, I believe there is a spiritual side to it.

[Coelho]

dude, no offense and all, but that argument kind of rambled off into some sort of vague redundancy. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, you're probably super stoned ;) . I mean damn, I'm SOOOoooooo (and many "o's" so forth) stoned right now I may not even be reading it right LOL. AH man I love B.C. Bud.

well... i WAS stoned indeed... and could not transmit my points of view... i will try in the following posts...


We create many perceptions of our reality based on our societal, environmental, and genetic conditioning. But, we still have a tried and proven, and most of all consistant, method of determining the reality of things. As I said, consistancy. A brick wall is consistantly hard to the touch, everybody else you talk to experiences it in exactly the same way. Therefor, we consider the hardness of a brick wall a reality because it is experienced, percieved, and interpreted universally.

what we call "real" is just a perceptual consense. if i touch the wall and say i feel it hard, and you touch and feel the same, and everybody feels the same, we just can conclude we share a common perception of the wall.
but it does NOT warrant the wall is indeed real.
i know it seems to contradic the common sense, but what is the common sense if not the-things-we-all-learn-to-agree-without-thinking-about?
i know it sounds like matrix too... but we have no arguments to prove (or disprove) we dont live into something matrix-like.

about the arbitrary nature of the arguments, i think is better give an exemple:
- why things fall?
- cause the gravitational atraction of the earth.
- but why the earth attracts things?
- because it have mass and mass atracts mass.
- why?
- because mass distorts the space-time, so the things "fall" bacause its the shortest path for them in the space-time.
- but why mass distorts the space time?
- (who knows??? until present it is an axiom... until proven false, or based upon another axiom...)

so... we have two options: stop to asking why when we arrive a thing we assume is correct (and this assumption is arbitrary), or we question every assumption ad nauseam, without arrive to anywhere, cause, like i said before, every assumption is: a)arbitrary, a dogma, an axiom which can not be questioned or, b)a assumption based upon another assumption or axiom.

as we can not question a axiom, we can only believe it or not, i said it was a matter of faith.

i expect ive made more sense now... sober :(

[0ffspring]

well... i WAS stoned indeed... and could not transmit my points of view... i will try in the following posts...



what we call "real" is just a perceptual consense. if i touch the wall and say i feel it hard, and you touch and feel the same, and everybody feels the same, we just can conclude we share a common perception of the wall.
but it does NOT warrant the wall is indeed real.
i know it seems to contradic the common sense, but what is the common sense if not the-things-we-all-learn-to-agree-without-thinking-about?
i know it sounds like matrix too... but we have no arguments to prove (or disprove) we dont live into something matrix-like.

about the arbitrary nature of the arguments, i think is better give an exemple:
- why things fall?
- cause the gravitational atraction of the earth.
- but why the earth attracts things?
- because it have mass and mass atracts mass.
- why?
- because mass distorts the space-time, so the things "fall" bacause its the shortest path for them in the space-time.
- but why mass distorts the space time?
- (who knows??? until present it is an axiom... until proven false, or based upon another axiom...)

so... we have two options: stop to asking why when we arrive a thing we assume is correct (and this assumption is arbitrary), or we question every assumption ad nauseam, without arrive to anywhere, cause, like i said before, every assumption is: a)arbitrary, a dogma, an axiom which can not be questioned or, b)a assumption based upon another assumption or axiom.

as we can not question a axiom, we can only believe it or not, i said it was a matter of faith.

i expect ive made more sense now... sober :(



yeah.....this doesn't help either side, lmao, I think that everyone considers this at one point in time, but It's a bit out there if you know what i mean.

[Coelho]

yeah.....this doesn't help either side, lmao, I think that everyone considers this at one point in time, but It's a bit out there if you know what i mean.

i dont... what do you mean? (please answer while im still sober so i can answer you properly :D)

[Erosea]

It is a fact that the Roman and Greek gods were no real and that they created the gods as an answer to that which they could not answer.

No one can prove or disprove any God. There is no way you can say, with absolute certainty, that the Roman Gods were/are not real.

1.)What makes today gods different to any of the roman gods who we know are not real?

Like I said, we don't know they aren't real. And there is no difference.

2.) What happens to god when all the humans on earth die?

...No one can know. I personally believe that once a person reaches enlightenment, they're absorbed back into the conscious energy from which they were created, or God.

3.) Why did the one god choose Earth as his planet were he would start a civilization which would end up destroying itself in the end. (Im not saying we will destroy ourselves, but i think its pretty inevitable.)

Why do you think God created life? It's certainly possible, but it's also possible that it was just random evolution. The conditions are right for life on Earth. It's possible God didn't have a hand in it. And if he did have a hand in it, I doubt he knew what would happen (I don't believe God is all-knowing or all-powerful). Life is a beautiful thing - that's why we grow gardens even when we know they might frost over and die. Perhaps, if God sparked life on Earth, that's why he did so.

I've asked many people how long god has been around and they always say "God has been here forever". Then i ask them how the earth was made and they say "God made the Earth". I then ask them "Is it possible for the Earth to have been here forever?" and they say "No the earth had to have been created, there is no way for something to just be here if it was created at some point in time."

4.) Why is it then that God can be here forever and not have been created if it is impossible for something to be here without being created.

That's a very good question. I don't personally believe that God, as we think of God, has been around forever. Maybe someone who does believe God has always existed can better answer your question.

You seem to make some pretty all-encompassing judgements about God and people who believe in a God. There are countless religions and beliefs out there, and it seems you are assuming that every spiritual person believes certain things, which is incredibly untrue. Try opening your mind a little. :)

[PureEvil760]

I think its funny how people question the existence of god when they are god lol. I wonder if they made Godzilla to show what the misconstrued perception of god does to everyone. The only true religeon is to only believe what you believe is true, not what any words say.
Amazon.com: Products Tagged "channeling" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/tagging/search/104-2532061-3878309?ie=UTF8&keywords=channeling)

[mrdevious]

I think its funny how people question the existence of god when they are god lol.


That's YOUR perception of god, but many consider god a clearly separate and distinct conscious entity that existed long before us, and dictates our existence. They're not necessarily denying your god, just that particular idea of god.

[0ffspring]

i dont... what do you mean? (please answer while im still sober so i can answer you properly :D)

Everyone has thought about whether life is real or not before, but I mean come on, if it isn't then religion in general is a made up thing of our false reality. Has nothing to do with the belief in what is real, ie what portains to reality.

[mamma puffpuff420]

no matter what u or i think
it is not 4 any of us 2 question God and His work's
the word is what is and must b obeyed as much as possible
not a 1 of us is perfect
tho He made us perfect
but God gave us the ability 2 make decision's
and we r really fucking up
man is destroying man and everything God created
God will b here 2 pick up the piece's
tho's of us who chose 2 believe in God will surely b rewarded
and will b born again in2 His kingdom

[PureEvil760]

That's YOUR perception of god, but many consider god a clearly separate and distinct conscious entity that existed long before us, and dictates our existence. They're not necessarily denying your god, just that particular idea of god.

Yea thats exactly the problem. people don't see themselves as God because of the shield of duality pulled over thier eyes. There is no separate entity every entity is god, its not somthing i truely believe in as a human it is just a truth.

[Coelho]

Everyone has thought about whether life is real or not before, but I mean come on, if it isn't then religion in general is a made up thing of our false reality. Has nothing to do with the belief in what is real, ie what portains to reality.

well... i just wished to say that in my opinion trying to discuss religion (or anything based upon faith) in a rational, argument-based way, is useless. even the more logical argument is based upon assumptions which are believed or disbelieved. Belief or faith can not be justified or unjustified by reason. For me using reason to prove or disprove faith is like try to prove why weed makes you stoned using math... they are simply incompatible.

[PureEvil760]

well... i just wished to say that in my opinion trying to discuss religion (or anything based upon faith) in a rational, argument-based way, is useless. even the more logical argument is based upon assumptions which are believed or disbelieved. Belief or faith can not be justified or unjustified by reason. For me using reason to prove or disprove faith is like try to prove why weed makes you stoned using math... they are simply incompatible.

Nicely said :thumbsup: True reality/spirituality cannot be explained with words anyway.

[chewbacker]

im not a beleaver i read that dark matter is in evrything so if you had a creator then i gues that would be it as even space is made of it theres no point in trying tounderstand what came first ckicken or the egg as it would be fruitless to try just grow and smoke and do your thing:)

[dannyboy420]

Nothing funnier than listening to people attempt to rationalize the irrational.

Here's one for you:

Prove that I am not God.

[Coelho]

Nothing funnier than listening to people attempt to rationalize the irrational.

Here's one for you:

Prove that I am not God.

It was exactly what i was trying to say... we cannot rationalize the faith, or belief, because it is a not a rational thing.

And for your question... Unless there is two (or more) gods, and i believe it is impossible, you just cannot be god, because I am. :p

[PureEvil760]

Nothing funnier than listening to people attempt to rationalize the irrational.

Here's one for you:

Prove that I am not God.

Why would we try to prove somthing thats false?

[Purple Banana]

I'm God, too.

Literally, my initials spell it.

PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE, AND SMOKE IT.

I think Satanism has a relatively sound perspective on life... You are your own person and entity, you're free to do as you wish, enjoy yourself, believe in yourself, be kind to those who are kind to you, don't do stupid stuff to others, ect.

I believe it's more of a lifestyle than an actual religion, per say, as religion usually deals with mono- or polytheistic spirits or beings.

I was raised Catholic, when to a Lutheran school while going to Baptist, Catholic, and Presbyterian churches, believed in the ideals of Wicca and Buddhism, lived my life akin to that of a Satanist, and at the same time, I don't believe there is any god/goddess presiding over us. If there IS a god, I don't see why he should be concerned whether or not I believe in him, if so, he must have a serious inferiority complex, if he feels we need to verify his existence...

What I don't understand is those people who claim everyone has a personal relationship with god, every one is different, yet they try to tell you what to believe in.

People need to embrace humans, not their beliefs.

[slipknotpsycho]

I'm God, too.

Literally, my initials spell it.

PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE, AND SMOKE IT.

I think Satanism has a relatively sound perspective on life... You are your own person and entity, you're free to do as you wish, enjoy yourself, believe in yourself, be kind to those who are kind to you, don't do stupid stuff to others, ect.

I believe it's more of a lifestyle than an actual religion, per say, as religion usually deals with mono- or polytheistic spirits or beings.

I was raised Catholic, when to a Lutheran school while going to Baptist, Catholic, and Presbyterian churches, believed in the ideals of Wicca and Buddhism, lived my life akin to that of a Satanist, and at the same time, I don't believe there is any god/goddess presiding over us. If there IS a god, I don't see why he should be concerned whether or not I believe in him, if so, he must have a serious inferiority complex, if he feels we need to verify his existence...

What I don't understand is those people who claim everyone has a personal relationship with god, every one is different, yet they try to tell you what to believe in.

People need to embrace humans, not their beliefs.

i was suprised when i started learning about it... up til that point, i'd always heard "the first part of worshiping satan requires you commit suicide" and then just the general evil that's always associated with satan...

lol, none of that has anything to do with it.... satanism is actually more living a good life, never wronging anyone....

as an extreme example, it actually says it's ok to have a threesome, as long as all parties are fully willing, it also says premarital sex is ok, and actually discourages doing evil to others... such as rape....

o.0 alot of people have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to satanism...

even alot of so called satan worshipers, aren't even following the religion (of couse i'm talking about the most popular form, taught by anton levey) it's kinda funny, all the satanist i knew in junior high, and how they acted... then i started reading up on it... and boy was i suprised :p

[Purple Banana]

Yep, it's basically founded on natural human insticts, and not repressing them. I don't call myself a satanist, or even religious. I just Am.

[PureEvil760]

I'm God, too.

Literally, my initials spell it.

PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE, AND SMOKE IT.

I think Satanism has a relatively sound perspective on life... You are your own person and entity, you're free to do as you wish, enjoy yourself, believe in yourself, be kind to those who are kind to you, don't do stupid stuff to others, ect.



Yea, my dad's inicials are G.O.D. my inicials are A.D. My grandparents, 4 uncles, and mother's last name is Cross.

Satanism is acctually a very intelligent study.

[medicinal]

I just try to do the best that I can by everyone I come into contact with, and I always seem to get what I give. That translates across every single religion and faith I've ever studied Keep it simple. It's you and the creator trying to exist without causing any harm. The mind may wander, question, and provide answers for the moment. Past, present and future thoughts are just fill to placate your existence. Your one and only purpose for being here is to learn. The soul needs to feed on lifes little treasures so it can move on to the next level. Of the billions of humans on the planet, there are myriads of differing plains of soul status. Wherever you are is where you are supposed to be. You cannot change your journey, only influence it. Intelligence (within reason) has no bearing on the outcome of your journey to perfection. Just know, that on this planet at this time, collectively, we are a long way from perfection. The ultimate goal is to be one with the creator, one not wanted by most at this time in our development, as that would entail giving up Ego. No-one can be perfect in this stage, even Jesus was less than perfect and there are no Jesus' on this planet.

[JackdaWack]

you guys need to sit back and realize that... this discussion is an unedable debate. And honestly, who gives a crap. I dont believe in god, but i dont think its right to challenge what people belive in, quite honestly its the human condition. We dont need to accept facts or lack there of to belive in something its purely what motivates you. I think people should all just accept the fact that we all think differently, and its non-sense to think that you have any right over another to tell them there wrong, becuase its purely belife on all ends, no matter how much fact and science, there equally unknown.

[PureEvil760]

I just try to do the best that I can by everyone I come into contact with, and I always seem to get what I give. That translates across every single religion and faith I've ever studied Keep it simple. It's you and the creator trying to exist without causing any harm. The mind may wander, question, and provide answers for the moment. Past, present and future thoughts are just fill to placate your existence. Your one and only purpose for being here is to learn. The soul needs to feed on lifes little treasures so it can move on to the next level. Of the billions of humans on the planet, there are myriads of differing plains of soul status. Wherever you are is where you are supposed to be. You cannot change your journey, only influence it. Intelligence (within reason) has no bearing on the outcome of your journey to perfection. Just know, that on this planet at this time, collectively, we are a long way from perfection. The ultimate goal is to be one with the creator, one not wanted by most at this time in our development, as that would entail giving up Ego. No-one can be perfect in this stage, even Jesus was less than perfect and there are no Jesus' on this planet.

wow somone with understanding..amazing

[S.P.Q.R.]

As well, I doubt anyone on earth believes in the roman/greek gods.

Wrong.. I'm a Hellenic Pagan and quite a few members of my family are (Greek Decent) and still hold very old traditions regarding the gods. Are you so sheltered by Judeo-Christianity that you don't see all of these minor, persecuted religions all over earth? If you're going to attempt to argue with people you should at least know some facts.

[weedypowerpuff]

It is a fact that the Roman and Greek gods were no real and that they created the gods as an answer to that which they could not answer.

1.)What makes today gods different to any of the roman gods who we know are not real?

There is but one true God.






2.) What happens to god when all the humans on earth die?


No human will remain dead. When the judgement calls and all the dead are awoken from slumber, there will be a final judgement for all. God continues to rule in harmony with the laws he has set forth to rule our universe.






3.) Why did the one god choose Earth as his planet were he would start a civilization which would end up destroying itself in the end. (Im not saying we will destroy ourselves, but i think its pretty inevitable.)


I nor any other person alive know the answer to that question. But I can tell you that we will not destroy ourselves, we will haowever lose alot of people due to disasters both manmade, and natural. It is a part of satan's plan to introduce the anti christ. And even if you don't believe in him, odds are that someone has done his study and made it his lifes goal to be this person. So believer or not Christianity does affect you.





I've asked many people how long god has been around and they always say "God has been here forever". Then i ask them how the earth was made and they say "God made the Earth". I then ask them "Is it possible for the Earth to have been here forever?" and they say "No the earth had to have been created, there is no way for something to just be here if it was created at some point




4.) Why is it then that God can be here forever and not have been created if it is impossible for something to be here without being created.

The Lord is the creator. I have no knowledge of any other. I look at the majesty of the mountains, the universe, our very bodies and I will not question him in the face of these miracles. He awaits the day we come to him as adoring and loving children, and then he will begin to open our eyes to things we never experienced in life, and upon ressurection we will be given our due whatever it may be.




Sorry in advance if this doesnt make any sense, im baked and having one of my moments :D.

See answer in quote.

[Abunai]

Did everyone go to hell before Jesus came? LoL