Please help! Droopy Plants

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I can't figure out what's wrong...I thought I had the problem fixed but it only made them look better for a day if someone has experience with this setup please let me know what I'm missing

aero 9 aeroponic setup...started in organic plugs and moved into the nets with hydroton pellets daily air temp is 75 when 400w hps light sun reflector is on I have a fan blowing in an opening of foil covered cardboard around the light which is 2 feet above plants I have a picture to show you what they look like this is during the middle of their day phase so I'm assuming the leaves should be atleast looking better than this...started with brita filtered water and added 400ppm of nuts are they too small could this possibly be too much food? maybe I should just run water through the system if that's the case. the plants leaves feel kinda brittle to the touch as they felt almost leathery before some spots of yellowing have shown up but nothing major if this is running as a "TAG" is it possible I could be over feeding? over watering? someone just help me I don't want to kill em

PS the bottom leaves on most are twisted and brittle and it seems to be traveling up to the top of the plant slowly if that helps oh and the water temp is hovering at 66 I read that the water temp is supposed to be very cool in aero someone let me know if this could be it possibly need it warmer till they get older then lower or what everything I read tells me to do something else

[mackSwell]

I don't use aero, but plants is plants, so here's what I see:

Your temps sound fine.

They look overwatered. I'm not sure how that is possible in aeroponics, but there it is. However, what you say about the leaves feeling brittle contradicts this. If the leaves are all feeling dry, then they aren't getting enough water. Quite a conundrum!

I have some questions:


It looks like maybe you had an overwatering problem, and that caused the wilt, but now the leaves are drying out in the wilted position. Is that accurate?

Are all of the leaves brittle, or just the lower ones? (The oldest pair of leaves do tend to die off at about that size.) The upper leaves appear kinda soggy and wilted in the photo, but it is hard to tell without touching them.

For how long have your plants been in trouble?

It doesn't look like an overnute problem, but did the problem begin shortly after you began adding nutes? (If it could be a nute problem, then it is a macronutrient problem, evidenced by the worst of it being in the oldest leaves.)

What is the pH?

What is the humidity in your grow area?

What was the ppm of your Brita water before adding nutes?

When you said you thought you had the problem fixed, but it only improved temporarily, what had you done that fixed it? Perhaps this is where the over/under watering comes in? Maybe they were overwatered and you cut back too much and now they are drying out?

Since I don't do aero, I don't know what a good fix is. If my DWC plants looked like this, I would get a shallow container, put pH adjusted H2O and a tsp of H2O2 in it, and set each pot in that for about 6 hours, on top of the tub under the light, and see if they improved. But I'm sure there's a better aero solution... Hopefully some aero masters will chime in and have more experienced input for you.

Hang in there - They aren't dead yet!

[Weedhound]

Hey this looks VERY familiar!! Hi Mack! :D

[mackSwell]

Hi Weed!

Here I am, spouting possibly useless advice again! *grin*

[Weedhound]

Well I didn't find your advice useless......and I like your glasses too! :jointsmile: Looks like ASD lived up to his name....posted this thread under plant problems too. :D

[alwayssleepdeprived]

hey mackswell and weed hound it's nice to know people actually read this stuff rofl

first off I'm sorry bout the double post I desperately wanted a response

Mack's q's

as far as I've been informed you can not overwater aero because the pump is never supposed to be turned off...in my setup I have 20 micron misters which is basically a bit heavier than a fog that runs through the air chamber and has drainage canals to port the water away...if it is over watering the only thing I can think of is because I put them in while they were a bit too young and the roots were always soaked in the hydroton (not hanging out into the open chamber yet...I agree that it looks droopy and wilted and I thought either over water or over fert but the leaves got really dry to the point of being brittle is this what happens in the case of over watering? I've grown twice before in soil so this is my first attempt with a more complex setup Everything I read points to either heat stress or over nute when it comes to curling leaves and brittle texture but even when I had the foil around the light as long as I kept a fan on it stayed dead on at 75F is it possible that plants that are too young can get over lighted without being too warm?

The the lower the leaves the more exaggerated?sp? the brittle texture seemed to be I'm not sure because there are 2 different kinds in the tank the darker green is a stout afghani indica and the other is a cross between nl and jack so I think that's mostly sativa the indicas leaves even at the top were almost like that of a rams horns even when they seemed healthy but the nl/jack pretty much fanned straight out as far as texture I can't think of a better word than leathery...it really felt like my jacket if it was warm in the sun with some moisture sprayed on it

hmm how long...umm they seemed to be fine till the first time I added my nutes I added 1 teaspoon for 5 gallons of res and they seemed to be growing at about 1/2 to 1cm a day I added an extra tablespoon after 5 days of this and noticed yellowing and droopy leaves and curling under....I flushed the res and after a day they started coming back....added nutes again as I thought I messed something up and again they got wilted but at this point I thought maybe they were just not getting nearly enough light so I also added the foil around the aero setup...actually let me describe the current setup as detailed as I can:

the 400w hortilux hps wide spectrum bulb in a super sun reflector is 2ft above the top of the aero tank there pump stays on constantly pumping pure tap water at the moment I know the tap water is at about 190 ppm or so because I took it to a local shop to have it tested...I'm not sure what the britta ppm is but I'd assume it's lower from what I've read it should be much lower like under 50ppm

the room is in the basement so it's 50F ambient temp and in the section with the light it is 75 with the light and the space heater running...the water in the res I've heard several different takes. I was told best is 65F and with 5 gallons of solution the pump keeps it at 66F with the space heater it's up to around 75F I have no idea who or what to listen to cause every faq and help says something different

humidity is about 35 to 40 as far as the dehumidifier says

the ph has been a roller coaster and it's also pissing me off

water goes in at roughly 6 I say that cause I only have a drop test kit and the next day it's over 8.5 to 9 I lower it each day to keep it at about 6 but it's wandered pretty bad...this is possibly because I've had to change the res out several times and it hasn't had a chance to even out...a few times I've accidently made the ph really low like 4 but again changed the water pretty quickly the main problem is rising ph I flushed the res 3 times after the last feeding which I think I added too much and changed it one more time last night it went in at 6 and I checked it before bed it was over 8 I checked it again when I woke up this morning and it was way over 8 I dropped it down again to just about 6 maybe even a bit lower are the plants too tiny should they be left at about nuetral till they show significant growth? I can't imagine the change is supposed to be that fast but I have no idea what is causing it cause there are no answers in the facs only thing I can think of is stored up nutes were being pushed outta the plants and that somehow raised the ph but after 3 res changes how much could they have left to push out oh by the way if I turn the space heater and the light off the room will go down close to 50 and the res temp will drop to around 60 I'm not sure if that's bad for em...ummm what else oh when they got droopy and brittle they seemed to shrink as well not just in appearance but the leaves themselves got tiny

I thought I had the problem pegged as over nute because they seemed to look a bit better as I only put water in the res

As an update with the current setup I described they have perked up a bit and the leaves seem more fleshy I'm not sure if I know what an over watered leaf feels like so if ya could describe it would help I'm not sure how much nute to add cause of all the issues before I'm thinking about changing the res once more after the dark cycle and adding 1/4 teaspoon of maxigrow <- my nute per the 5 gallon res and keeping the space heater on to have the room and res close to 75 at all times till I can narrow down the issue I don't wanna put the foil back on till I hear someone assure me that if the temps stay low enough that you can't over light I think it produces 55k lumens probably somewhere around 45 to 50 now though as it's the third grow

ok well that's all I can think of to answer those questions...I wish I had a better explanation but it really seemed like adding 4 teaspoons to 5 gallons was too much food from the description of the symptoms unless it was heat stress somehow but I'm positive they never get over 80 I hope this gives you enough info to figure out what I'm missing or maybe for someone to point me in the right direction I'll put an updated pic up when I get a chance thanks again weed and mack ;-)

[JackdaWack]

You shouldnt be fertilizing those, your final ppm shoudl be like 300. I would say its overfert, with ph lockout = plants drying out similiar symptoms

[alwayssleepdeprived]

hmm well thanks for the advice jackdawack as I said before I think when I change the res I'm gonna only add 1/4 teaspon which should only put like 70ppm of nutes in the water I'm hoping that should avoid any possible over fert...should I worry about the res temp getting down to 60? or was the rest of it all probably fine? if I should worry about temp what would be the lowest to allow cause I'm hoping to save costs of space heating

[Weedhound]

Ok ASD, you are about to get yelled at:

You can't just get around to fixing the ph when it suits you in hydro....you MUST get control of it or your plants will die. It's that simple in hydro. It's as if trying to grow in soil and saying "well I have everything I need to grow except I'm kind of fuzzy on that water thing so I'll just gloss over that part and go with 2 out of 3. PH is ALL in hydro. If you can't achieve a stable ph between 5.6-6.2 AT THE MOST over a 24 hour period don't even bother for very long because it won't happen for you (or anyone else with that kind of ph probs) ;)

If your water isn't working or won't stay stable then use RO or distilled water.
Dump the britta filter....speaking from experience.

If you dont have them already get good quality ph up and down. USE them as often as you need to! You will need to check your ph SEVERAL times a day until you have stablized it. A good quality ph pen is nice to have too, but not necessary as long as you can measure ph in some accurate way.

You are overnuting.....but with ph being that wacky they probably aren't uptaking the nutes anyway but I agree with Jack completely....300ppm/tops for younguns'.

So DONT be looking to be sleeping too much real soon! :D

Jack if you get a chance could you check out my thread on "rootbound" in this forum and give me you opinion? Thanks...:)

[Weedhound]

And a few pssss...

Any foil you have around.....get rid of it. If you don't have Mylar maybe some cheap white paint or anything white to help reflect.

At a month old young man (or young woman) with that kind of ph rodeo be glad they are still kicking at all! (And I mean that in a nice way :))

I might even think about just giving them plain ph'd water (R0 or distilled of course) for a few days since they are a month old. I thought perhaps they were new-ish clones. I would get that advice from a wiser mind than mine tho......there are plenty around. :D Or perhaps Flora Kleen or ???
Just rambling really on this last one.....

[the way]

looks pretty clearly over-watered to me

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I've been checking the ph all day and trying to keep it just below 6 I'm looking at the drop test with incandescent light cause they said hid messes it up and flouros seem to make it look goofy too...I have a 5 gallon tank sitting out ready to be switched in with 1/4 teaspoon of food so that should keep the ppm down way below 300 I know the ph of the 5 gallon waiting to go in is just below 6 so I'm hoping my fluctuating ph is taken care of now...would it make sense that ph would climb really fast for a bit after over nuting? I'm hoping that's the case cause it should level out once the plants stop pushing out the extra we'll see I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this next flush resolves the issues atleast the severity anyway thanks so much weedhound for all the help so far I'll keep this thread posted...

[alwayssleepdeprived]

running at 1/4 teaspoon for the 5 gallons at just under 6 ph maybe right at 6 the res is at like 73 right now and the air by the plants is about 75

[Weedhound]

Good! Hopefully you will see a change soon. The really crispy parts of your leaves will die off so don't be surprised but you should the rest of them begin to perk up within a day or so if you are on th ph thing.

The drop test deal is fine.....if you hold the tested water against a white background it helps...(I have fish :) ) If you can stay between 5.5-6.5 you are good. Keep your nutes on the very low to none side for awhile.

Some ph issues simply are caused by the water you use...some tap water is extremely hard to keep ph stabilized which is why many people use RO or distilled. Fixing your ph several times a day can get old REALLY QUICK and those types of water stay more stable in my opinion. There are also cool setups you can buy that do nothing but keep your ph adjusted. Just some other cud to chew on ....:D

Somewhere on these forums (I think in the indoor growing section somewhere) I started a thread on my trying out molassas in my grow and the resulting ph horrors that I caused in my plants and had to fix. If you have time to read it you may find it interesting. So yes....overnuting, among other things, can cause quick rises in ph.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I put it in at just under 6 last night and checked before I went to bed I added just a touch of down to put it closer to 5.2 - 5.5 for the night and when I got up it was decent at around 6.5 so hopefully it will even out quicker than before the plants already look a ton better but like you said (weedhound) the really brittle leaves are doubtfully gonna recover...on the bright side none of the leaves are hanging straight at the side they are all atleast trying to fan out so in the 2 days time they've seemed to show life again I just took a pic I'll post it below *keeping my fingers crossed* tonight I'll get a pic that isn't distorted from the hid

[Weedhound]

Yes they do look better! Keep it up!:thumbsup: I will check back tonight.:)

[mackSwell]

Mack's q's

as far as I've been informed you can not overwater aero

That's what I thought, but the wilted appearance seems to say 'overwatered'. But working out some of these other issues should help.


the roots were always soaked in the hydroton

This could have caused the overwatering. Hydroton should not be saturated, or your roots won't get enough air.


the leaves got really dry to the point of being brittle is this what happens in the case of over watering?

No. The wilting is a sign of overwatering. The drying out is something else.


Everything I read points to either heat stress or over nute when it comes to curling leaves and brittle texture

Heat stress usually causes browning around the margins. Your leaves looked pretty evenly greenish though dry. And over nute usually starts with browning at the leaf tips. The only brown you mentioned was spots... That says either pH shock (highly likely considering the info below) or hot spots from the foil around your light (also likely).


is it possible that plants that are too young can get over lighted without being too warm?

Yes, but really only with just-sprouted plants. They need to get gradual or indirect light until they "harden off". This may have been a problem eariler, but that time has passed now.


it really felt like my jacket if it was warm in the sun with some moisture sprayed on it

Your description is excellent! - but I haven't the foggiest (NPI) idea what would cause that. *chuckle*


hmm how long...umm they seemed to be fine till the first time I added my nutes I added 1 teaspoon for 5 gallons of res and they seemed to be growing at about 1/2 to 1cm a day I added an extra tablespoon after 5 days of this and noticed yellowing and droopy leaves and curling under....

Okay. So nutes are a problem. Doubling the nutes was probably way too much for them. You'll want to go up more gradually than that in the future.


pure tap water

I use tap water with my plants with little trouble. The only thing I have to be careful about is changing the rez more frequently, especially when the plants are young... I believe that minerals and salts build up in my rez after about 5 days. The leaves would begin a downward curl.

Do you have city water or a well? Do you have a water softener?



the water in the res I've heard several different takes. I was told best is 65F and with 5 gallons of solution the pump keeps it at 66F with the space heater it's up to around 75F

75 is high for rez, but great for room temp. Move your space heater further from the rez maybe?



humidity is about 35 to 40 as far as the dehumidifier says

Do you really need the dehumidifier now? Tropical plants, and all... Maybe during flower, but maybe not now.


the ph has been a roller coaster and it's also pissing me off

I suspect that as Weed said, this is your main problem.


water goes in at roughly 6 I say that cause I only have a drop test kit and the next day it's over 8.5 to 9 I lower it each day to keep it at about 6 but it's wandered pretty bad...this is possibly because I've had to change the res out several times and it hasn't had a chance to even out...

That is some serious drift. Plants do not like pH changes of .5 or more within a couple of hours. Are you "resting" your tap water? You should let it sit out for 24 hours in an open container before using it.

Try this: Put tap water in a jug, test pH. Let it sit for 24 hours, test again. How much change?


a few times I've accidently made the ph really low like 4 but again changed the water pretty quickly

Yikes. Okay - pH shock does all kinds of bad things to your plant, to say nothing of the nutrient problems it causes. Some nutrients are being locked out at your lower and higher pHs, so you get deprivation, but other nutes are not locked out, so you get overnute of those. Gotta get that pH under control before anything else.


should they be left at about nuetral till they show significant growth?

No. You want them consistantly as close to 5.8 as you can get them throughout growth.


but after 3 res changes how much could they have left

With a rez as small as 5 gallons, it doesn't take much to effect your pH. If your tap water's pH is unstable, this could be the main problem.


res temp will drop to around 60 I'm not sure if that's bad for em

60 is fine. Roots like it cold. 75 is high though.


the leaves themselves got tiny

This could be from pH shock, or from nutrient problems due to pH flux, or overall plant stress.


I thought I had the problem pegged as over nute because they seemed to look a bit better as I only put water in the res

If the pH caused over & under nute problems, plain water would improve them temporarily. pH, pH, pH... *chuckle*


I'm not sure if I know what an over watered leaf feels like so if ya could describe it

They wilt. Like lettuce that's been sitting in a bowl too long. They get soft limp, and flaccid, (Aww. *smirk*) and can get wrinkly, but not brittle/crispy - that's something else.


I don't wanna put the foil back on till I hear someone assure me that if the temps stay low enough that you can't over light

No foil.


it really seemed like adding 4 teaspoons to 5 gallons was too much food

Yes - WAY too much.


thanks again weed and mack ;-)

Glad to help. Long live cannabis.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

ok I only have a couple minutes but I wanted to touch on a couple things before I leave while it's fresh in my head...

the nute issue seems to be better left super low currently at 1/4 teaspoon for the 5 gallon res From now on I'm definately going to let the water sit out for atleast a day as this does seem to help the ph stabilize a bit I've been checking the ph for the last couple days and the roller coaster seems to be running out of steam as the ups and downs are limited to about 1 full point rather than 4

The dehumidifier was the only meter I had so I just put it in there to check it...it's not running in that area cause like you said being tropical during veg stage I'd rather have em be moist as possible

I'm thinking about getting an interval timer for the pump and a heat rod as well so the space heater can be removed from the loop not only is it expensive but it's not easy to estimate heat by guessing how far to move it from the res I want it as self sustaining as I can get

you mentioned wrinkly leaves as a sign and I do notice that the new leaves definately appear quite wrinkled I'm not sure if new growth starts out wrinkled and then gets flatter and smoother as the leaf itself matures so I'm going to keep an eye on this...I'm sure at night I could leave the pump off for much longer than it could be during the day but I've heard that you aren't supposed to turn the pump off at all so I'll tweak that over the next week or so like you said about the ph I don't want to change a bunch of things drastically and not learn what changes brought about what effect

as long as yer sure the res can be as low as 60 I'm going to make sure the space heater is angled away and started above the res to avoid heating it unnecessarily I'm trying to keep as close an eye on it as possible...all the help has been wonderful they're starting to look like they might pull through *hopes*

when it comes to aero I'm still not sure how fast they should be growing I've heard as much as 2 inches or so on an 18/6 daily cycle but it doesn't say at what height the start was so maybe that's only with older plants and a more established root system I'm really thinking that the over water problem was more apparent before the roots were hanging out through the nets as now they are hangin in misted air the over water issue should subside I'm trying to pay close attention to this so I can better help myself and others that might choose to grow this way in the future

again thanks a million for the help I'll be posting again later tonight with an updated pic and info:thumbsup:

[mackSwell]

They definitely look better, and it sounds like you're on the right track now. I'll keep checking in!

[JackdaWack]

Honestly, this was a complete ph problem, the wilting was not over water, but underwatering, becuase the plant cant get what it needs at >6. They dried out once they became so dehydrated. The plant doesnt really need to take in nutes at this stage so it has nothing to do with under over fert or lockouts. They have all they need but good plain ph'ed water, No one seemed to realize the fact that there to young to take in nutes yet or were. I cant belive u were having this much trouble with the ph, every res change shoudl ph twice a day for 2 days and then after once a day or when needed. I find my ph levels out a couple days after a res change.

[Weedhound]

I don't know Jack but I fried the butt off some of my week old blueberry seedlings by starting out at 400/ppm and the ph was ok so they definitely sucked up SOMETHING... I generally start my seedlings off right away on 300/ppms...50/50 Cal Mag and Pro Grow....do not wait for several nodes and have never had them burn on that. I know there are tons of folks who say don't nute babies but I do...always have and will continue to. SO THERE:p :D

I do think the problem was in the ph....can't be hopping around like that. I really don't think there was any under or overwatering involved. I will, of course, immediately deny this if I am proven wrong....;)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

well this sounds like the start of a healthy debate ;) hello all I was just checkin in I'd have to say I'm torn between both issues cause possibly 3.5 to 9 ph can't be good on top of the fact that some feel almost like lettuce rofl so that can't be good either...

Thankfully the ph is starting to even out and doesn't seem to have moved enough to lower yet it's still just below 6(maybe climbed .3 max) I've found that the truest readings in the drop test come from sunlight (kinda obvious) but there is only a very slight different from the incandescant?sp? bulbs so that's what I use 2nd

As they have resumed slow? growth(not sure if it's slow or normal actually the tallest is at 7 to 4 1/2 inches from original starter plug....5 to 2 1/2 from top of tank

I don't have a ppm meter so I'm not sure what ppm I'm running at I know the tap water was at 190 but the last one I ran through the britta

I do know that I'm at less than 100ppm nutes when you say 300ppm weed are you refering to just the nutes or the total ppm of the water? I guess if you were using distilled it would be 0 or very few ppm so it would be all nutes

Using the formula at 1/4 teaspoon for 5 gallons I should be at around 65 to 70ppm I took the volume of a 1/4 teaspoon vs the volume of total solution at 5 gallons and came up with that number so lemme know if I calculated it wrong

weed you sure 300ppm won't kill them? cause if so I'll definately put another 1/2 teaspoon in immediately and just make sure I keep an eye on the ph closely again

ok now as far as the pictures so far are concerned they were on my phone and crappy to say the least so once 12:00A rolls around I'll be posting 9 macro pictures 1 for each plant...hopefully the detail will help pinpoint what's wrong with these babies :D I can't wait!!!

PS is there a certain guideline for when to start moving the light closer or just let the girls grow up to it and then start moving it up from there?

[Weedhound]

Ok, don't change ANYTHING (except the ph!) if you feel it is working until your plants seem back to healthy again. There are many of the Big Names, latewoood among them who are very strong on no nutes early but that is the way I was taught by my hydro guy....and I know lots of the "hydro" guys who don't know anything but my guy's great luckily :D....so I can only vouch that it is how I do it and it has worked very well for me. I DID overfert my blueberries very young tho....Nitrogen....they turned a beautiful dark blue green color which I thought was lovely but was completely unaware they weren't supposed to do this and on my second grow I sprayed them as young seedlings with some seltzer water but forgot to check the ph (which was about 3)so there I was basically spraying these poor young leaves with acid, lol. This grow I have tried to kill them twice...once with molassas and once by picking practically every leaf that attempted to grow in the search for more buds. They are doing much better with me not touching them. (This is the growing theory equivalent (sp?) to I love to hit myself on the head with a hammer because.....)

Hence, my new sig. ;) :jointsmile:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Ok so I got through an entire day without the ph moving so I'll consider that a huge success it's still hovering just under 6...they have definately come back what looks about half way from whatever I did that hurt em...I have 9 pics like I said that I'll be loading which should have plenty of detail to get a definitive answer on some of the girls issues

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the gender thing...probably still have a bit to tell that

oh the 5 with thinner leaves and lighter color are cindy99 and the short fat dark ones are some bag indica

[Weedhound]

Hi ASD,

if they are coming back (and they certainly look better to me) then sounds like keep the ph stable is your answer. I found that when in doubt it's safer to go with less nutes rather than more. Seems to me that overferting will kill them off alot quicker than under-fert but PH is the end all in hydro...nothing else will happen with your plants (well nothing good anyway) until that is correct. I'm not as strong as others on matters of room temp, humidity, water temp etc as I have personally not found minor changes in these things to affect my plants so.....

I would keep doing what you are doing.....your larger leaves look like they may be gone....if they do crisp up either pull them (later!) but the very top stuff isn't drooping so that's good. As many days as you feel the ph was screwy than that's roughly about how many days you should give them to recover before you start making changes again.

And I wouldn't get to dreaming about all your females quite yet....they have some growing to do. :D :thumbsup:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Just checking ph and water level is the only plan for the next 2 days...I think that feels like the right advice to me too...I'm going to let them keep showin improvement and that's bout all I can hope for I agree with you about those leaves they are like lettuce at this point but to help that issue I put the space heater blowing across directly the top of the aero tank where the plants sit...I'm hoping this will help the plants shed the extra moisture and now that I have a ph stable and very weak nute solution they can drink new water without getting fried...Now that I see them coming back so quickly I think I got the roller coaster issue resolved

Here's what I think and lemme know if something is obviously wrong or just because of some other issue but here goes:

I believe the first time I gave them nutes I put in the normal amount for soil this was 1/2 teaspoon per gallon I started out with this and they didn't seemed to almost shoot up like over night...I thought this meant they were under fed so after watching the whole day of super growth ( from what I thought) turns out it might just have been steady healthy production if I would have left it alone but I was told once you notice them start to grow you should go to more nutes by the local hydro shop and he told me ya feed the same in hydro as soil don't know how he missed this one especially considering aero is apparently lower still and then foggers which I guess are the lowest...I did some reading on this college students findings he was from maryland and related droplet size to 2 basic growth patterns...the ease of drinking and even distrabution?sp? of nutes he put it all kindsa ways but I think most simply put the smaller the drop size the more frequent the waterings and lower nute strength when ya get to 20 micron or less which is what I've found my sprayers to be they say you should keep them on all the time so hopefully we'll just see the soggy leaf problem clear up

I will load another pic of all 9 together from an angle to show em grow

Does anyone have an estimate of how fast they've experienced the plants should grow or a reasonable range when people say an inch do they mean an inch taller or one more inch end-to-end wingspan? And does a rooted clone grow much faster than one from seed? If it's a significant increase I'll have to think about tryin that

I'm feeling pretty good I just checked the ph and it looks to need a bit of down so I'm aiming for 5.5 to 6.0 I think I'll try to keep it just a hint of orange

See everyone later tonight

[JackdaWack]

these look overwatered, lolz, if the ph isnt a problem anymore. droopy still?
droopy leaves arent a sign of fert problems, either under/over water. Sometimes its hard to tell the difference, i though my girl was getting to much water at night and she actually wanted more. So i mean leave it up to trial and error, if there still dropping cut back watering.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

well the ph has leveled out pretty nice I've only had to put a bit of down in it today and it's holding pretty steady well it's climbing at about .3-.4 a day it seems at this point which is about ideal I guess if I want them eating...all new growth appears to be sturdy and healthy so I'm gonna give it another day or 2 before messing with them...if the few plants with droopy leaves persist I may trim those off and just crop those plants a bit later

I did notice some sections of brown roots and I was wonderin what the easiest way to treat them would be? I know I've read about untangling so they get air and it seems like it might have happened when the plant stopped drinking the poison I was pushin ;) is there a recommended root treatment to apply after getting them unwound? and I'm still curious to know what color people would shoot for the new growth to be I'm trying to gauge how close to get the light I know some pretty light greening is good and possibly a hint of yellow during new growth would be good? that's about it for now...my hope is that the next time I star changing things they'll be strong enough to handle my mistakes I'll post some more pics next night cycle

[alwayssleepdeprived]

PH is still holding steady between 5.5 and 6.0 I haven't had to add any down or up in 3 days and after lowering the light today I noticed the plants drank a bit more water...if they drink this much again tomorrow I'm planning on giving some more nutes I've been busy with other chores and since they are lookin healthy I've tried to keep my dirty paws off em I'll post a few more pics tomorrow night for opinions on the droopy leaf issue on the plus side all roots and leaf growth(well new leaf growth) seem to be beautiful

[Weedhound]

Hi ASD,

update? You completely lost me when you started talking about the droplet thing.....that sounds more like Jack's baliwick than mine. Did want to know how they are though.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

well I've topped off the water twice and I've been keeping an eye on them and until just a few hours ago they looked great...they seem to have started drooping again and I haven't added anything even the ph has been so stable it hasn't needed up/down to fix it...is it possible that when they started growing they used the rest of the nutes in there? maybe I should just add some more food but I was hoping someone could help me out with what would happen if you just left a plant trying to grow in ph'd water with no food

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I would really appreciate it if someone can pinpoint what's goin on with these stupid things cause I'm about to just kill them all and start over with soil the ph has been the same for several days now and nothing besides topping off the res has happened how can they do so well for 2 or 3 days and now look like they're gonna die?

[JackdaWack]

did u try and cut back on watering?

[alwayssleepdeprived]

well I was thinking about going and buying an interval timer for the setup but I don't know why the plants would have stopped looking water logged and had the leaves lift up and be fine for several days only to drop back down again now...I guess I have no other choice but to get a timer and atleast see if it can make the grow speeds quicker cause it's been in the aero tank for 2 weeks and I've had at most 3 inches of growth

[Weedhound]

Well Jack may be right about the watering thing....aero is not my thing. Here are two off the wall thoughts....one was that I had a mineral def in my plants in one of my previous grows....when I switched to blooming nutes and bent them they took a big jump and the nutrient requirements couldnt keep up...the problem ended with keeping the ppms up to a good level (in this case 1000/ppms)to avoid defs. You might try doing a res change and up your nutes a touch but you really are going to need some equipment to measure ppms etc if you stick with hydro. Too much or too little? Btw, you'd be surprised how many things a fresh res change can help.

The other is that there is discussion that large amounts of ph up/down can add too many salts to your res....I don't know much about this, only that I have heard it. I change my res more often than recommended because I like the results I see in my plants when I do. They always seem to take a growth jump when I do.

These are complete guesses on my part....the nute def I learned by trial and error. I know there are others out there who know much more than I do so hopefully they will be able to solve your prob. :(

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I've checked them this morning and they seem to have perked up after adding the nutes last night maybe it's possible they had none left and just needed some food...there isn't anything that says unfed plants will droop but besides the ph going down to look a bit more orange the food was the only change...also it seems like the res ph is climbing slowly since I've added the nutes I've checked a few times today and noticed it's getting closer to yellow

I have to get a ph/ppm tester cause it would help to know if they really were just outta food...the tallest plant is a bit over 6inches now and maybe 8-10 inches wide depening on how straight the leaves are

Now I'm just gonna play the waiting game and hopefully they perk up even more I'll put up a pic at the end of the light cycle tonight for comparison

Again thanks for the advice WH and JW the ideas are always good I got a question though how fast do you guys notice them growing when conditions are ideal? should they really get an inch taller a day?

[JackdaWack]

an inch is ideal, i always had mine shoot up, but i just started an indica grow so im not too sure, you would look for about atleast half an inch a day, they really grow during flower, during vegg its more likely to ask the question if its not growing up to its standard, in flower u should see them shoot up. MY vegging plants ussually just grow up to 12 inches in a month. and then flower they double in size the first month, and the last month they ussually stop growing u will see a couple inches hear and there.

[Weedhound]

The reason I think of it is that there is one mineral....I'll have to look it up (copper?) ....and that is exactly what happened to my plant....drooped and wilted within 12 hours and came back just as fast when I did a res change with full strength nutes... Give me a few min to look back through some of my posts....I listed it somewhere.

[Weedhound]

It was iron and it caused very rapid drooping throughout the entire plant.....at least I'm thinking iron beccause the symptoms fit perfectly and went away just as quick as they came.

Update when you can......

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I'm still not sure what I did that changed it but they are looking much better now. I've given them about twice the nutes as before and they seem to be drinking and eating...I'll post a pic to for comparison but I'm almost wondering if they were just out of food considering...a few that were very dark green have gone back to a much nicer forest color and aside from a few nute burn spots the whole lot is looking much better

It's possible they were getting a ton of iron when I was doing the res flushes after I gave them too much food because I wasn't filtering it I'm not sure why this most recent one did the same thing though cause I was filtering that water but stranger things have happened ;-) I'll keep an eye on it WH...I'm using maxigrow which has the trace elements as well cause my water is at 200ppm to start I'm running it through the britta before I make changes...the ph has settled in to a very slow climb which I've been told by a few seems to be the norm

Thank you for the info on grow rates JW it's a huge help to have a reference as far as I can tell they are growing almost 1/2 an inch a day which is right in line with what you were saying....

I've got a few more things to check tonight but I'm startin to relax a bit as things have calmed down

Now I'm thinking about topping one of the plants cause it's considerably taller than the others if it slows down growth for a couple days that may be just the thing to get the others caught up and since it grows faster maybe 2 main shoots will slow it down to be with the others...I am a bit nervous about takin scissors to the tree but hopefully with some more reading I'll be ready

I think I got a day or 2 before the top will be ready for cutting I've read only having 2 nodes is best for the size of the clone, whatcha think?

Sorry bout the crappy pic again I'll get a better one if I can figure out what's wrong with my digicam I tried to take a pic when the light was on and it messed it up...the screen is all jumbled now hopefully it'll fix itself

[Weedhound]

Not too much iron......too little. That's why mine shaped up when I put in new nutes.....I had had them on a lighter nute solution than my last grow (think it was 700ppm instead of 1000ppm) so when I put in more nutes (as you did) they got better. Still just a guess on my part.....one of my many advuntures in messing up my plants :)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Well throughout the day today I checked in a couple times and noticed they were really looking perky but by the very end just before the end of the day most of the smaller ones were looking a bit droopy again...not sure what's causin this yet but the biggest one seems to be loving the light...maybe the others just were pooped from growing by the end and were just ready for sunset

they definately look a lot fuller though over the last couple days I took another pic to post as comparison atleast this one had a flash so it won't look like a dungeon ;)

Still on the fence about topping the tallest one but I'll have to make my decision either tomorrow or the next day as far as the others I'm just hoping they keep growing...

I'm actually tempted to start flower in the next few days and just see how they do but some are still really small so I don't want them to finish flowering at like a foot tall haha I'm tryin to be patient whatcha think about just putting them into flower and seeing how they turn out?

In the pic you can see some signs of nute burn, possibly some heat stress, & a touch of droopiness still not sure what's the root cause of that but I guess if they only droop a little bit toward the last hour or 2 of the day it's not the biggest deal I'm considering this run totally experimental at this point so any yield will make me happy of course the more the better heh

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I was checking the roots today and noticed a lot of them are starting to get tangled and wrapped around the spray tubes...I'm not sure if it's just best to let them grow around as they need to or should I take some time and get them all seperate? I'm thinking about goin to flower in a couple days

I'm gonna top the tallest plant so they are all about the same height and just see how it goes from there I'm hoping I can top it and keep as a clone for more if it turns out to be a monther...I figure the least it will be is cloning practice I'll update later tonight with the results

PS the Roots are looking a bit offwhite now compared to the bright white they were before is this normal as they get older or should I treat them to help avoid the RR

[alwayssleepdeprived]

At first the clones leaves were droopy and fell right down flat but it seems that it only took from this afternoon till now and the clone looks like it's perked up again...I'm not positive but I'd assume if the leaves have picked themselves back up and fanned back out so that's gotta be a good sign the rest of the plants are actually looking quite crowded in the tub so I'm thinking once I see the first sign of growth on the plant I topped I'll be putting it to 12/12 the next night...I'm hoping for atleast half to be female but 5 would be ideal and should clear up some room for the leaves to spread out since it's got 9 spots putting in 5 would make an X and should let the grow much more without encroaching

I'm starting to notice a mild odor from them each time I enter the room so along with sealing light leaks those are the next 2 items on the agenda

Thanks for everyones help...without it I'm sure they woulda already died but now I'm even starting to think they might make it to smoke WOOHOO!

[Weedhound]

ASD, I think it's time you invest in a ppm/tds meter. You need some sort of guide here....your plants are definitely reflecting the guesswork you are using. They're better, then they are worse, then better. Some of what you are seeing are reflections of the ph probs but others aren't and you arent going to know without measuring the different things you are doing; otherwise all your future grows will be the same frustrating experience any time you have a problem. :thumbsup:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Everything seems to be going along just as sluggish as always haha...almost through week 6 and most are around 8 inches tall the one in the bottom middle of the pic is the runt of the litter

they are frustratingly small at this age but 2 good things is the topping that I did on the giant has rendered 4 grow shoots and the clone seems to be rooting as it's still looking pretty healthy it's been 3 days so hopefully I'll see some new growth soon

I think I see a few preflowers 1 looked like a girl and 2 looked like males but the rest I had no idea so maybe it'll go 50/50 for me either way it's time to put them to 12/12 and take notes for take 2

[Weedhound]

Hi ASD,

Thanks for the kind words on my other thread. The smoke has turned out to be excellent.....more kick ass than I have grown so far.

Are these guys drooping like that just at night or also during the day? Can you get a photo of them during the light period? The obviously have grown tons!

[alwayssleepdeprived]

day 2 of flower...I was debating on goin 24h dark cycle to jump them but I settled on 16 hours I think that's enough of a shock considering they've been in 18/6

The preflowers seem to have grown enough to notice anyway so hopefully this next 12 night will give me enough to tell the sexes for sure on some once I confirm a male I'll remove it but I'd say I have a week before I'll get em all

The ph has been relatively pretty stable....very slow climb if any I'm hoping to have a testor tomorrow so I'll be able to keep a better control over ppm I can figure out water type and nute level way better

They are progressing much better in my opinion and if they stay on this course I'm hoping they will top out max 3ft once I know the sexes I may choose to go 14/10 to help give the mothers more time to grow

I'm not sure but I may take crappy under canopy growth and create clones...I think I mentioned somewhere back it's 5 cindy99 and 4 indica (very fleshy leaves) 3 cindy and 2 indica would be ideal

Here's 2 pics one of all and one over the 4 shooter and to answer yer question WH it was a 2 1/2 hours into darkness the previous pics were in the middle at about 4 hours into dark...They seem to stand up much more during the day I can't seem to take a picture without it messing up the camera it gets all these lines some of the earlier pics I took were like that I'll try to get one without that affect

[Weedhound]

Commitment! Good for you! They do look much better and have grown but I swear there is something odd about them....everyone has their big huge lists of stuff that they worry about but mine''s rather small.....Ph level, nutrient level, water temp (and I'm fairly casual about that and room temp---10 degrees or so from center wont' worry me) and then the lighting....too close or too far? I swear it has to be your nutrients.

When I used to struggle (horribly) with soil my plants would do that at night....lower their leaves and rest them then bounce back up in the morning.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I agree 100% that there is something not quite right and it really might be the nutes I got maxigrow(2-1-3) and maxibloom(1-2-3) by gh for nutes but I'm not convinced the ratio in it is ideal for mj I'll hopefully be able to post with an update on my findings with the new toy/toys I pick up tomorrow and it's probably wise to spend some time reading up on nutes as it's next on the list

[Weedhound]

My honest guess if the ph is correct is that you are low on nutes...the fear of course being then putting in too many nutes and poof, which is why I suggested the ppm meter. Glad you are getting one because hopefully it will solve your last issue with them.

I know there are tons of people--who grow better weed than me BTW-- who are very strong on WHICH nutes, must have these additives, room temp, humidity etc. My feeling is that it IS a weed and not very many of those things are ideal in the outside world so to me it doesn't pay to worry about those things until after you have solved the basics, especially in hydro. And seriously if you knew even PART of the list of things I have done to mine that were bad only to have them bounce back when the problem was fixed....really you have to be a pretty hardy plant for that. :)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I picked several items today a fan/filter and most importantly the tester...it's a Hanna 98129 it's not the best or anything but it's a 4 in 1 with ph/ec/tds/temp with 2 point auto calibration and temp adjust the ph has display down to the hundreths and is accurate to .05 which should be more than enough for my casual application...I chose this model because other testers were only cheaper by 20-30 bucks and weren't nearly as accurate this one got a bunch of good ratings and the next step up was over $400

The instructions say to let it sit in storage solution (which I didn't buy) for 2 hours before calibrating so I'm just soaking it in tap water now...I've heard a bunch of people say they have the pen testers and just store it in tap water and that the pen is still working the same several years later...I'm probably gonna pick up the solution and a bunch of other little things as I get the rest of the room completed (finally)...probably another 30 hours of work or so left

The plants are looking bigger each morning when I check on them and in a few days the final res change before going with bloom nutes...Stil can't tell for sure which are males/females but I can atleast see the (parts) on all of em most look kinda ballish but I'm hoping it's just too soon haha

And WH I'm sure there are people out there that can grow weed that's not even like weed anymore haha but your advice is always directed and keeps me focused on making the plants better immediately rather than worrying about every little thing that's not perfect about the setup so I have appreciated it a ton ;-) my goal is to learn about horticulture and avoid having to feed money into groups I really don't approve of just to get some mj

I'm pretty anal though so I'm sure as the room and skill progresses I'll get better it's just a matter of time...more pics and info on the new toys tomorrow once they are operational...I'm psyched about bein able to tell how much food they actually have

Since I've given them more food they've started to pick up much more during the day, however, they still droop almost saggy at night...until tomorrow ;-)

[Weedhound]

Well THAT thing sounds totally cool....I have a Hanna but not nearly that fancy....does ph and ppm/ec...and the thing is never wrong and never goes off calibration. And seriously, I'm hard on my stuff. That should do you more than well. :) uhhh, not sure if I soaked mine or not....and I just dry the thing off for next time. Told you I'm hard on things.

Thanks for the kind words and it does make me think....it does seem as though instead of feeling helped it feels like people just give folks a bunch more stuff to freak out over.....but none of that does anything for you until you have the initial stuff down. I have a very good friend who's trying to grow hydro but in a very slip-shod way, started lighting at 12/12 (forgot to check....) is using these poor cfls for flowering and isn't happy with the amount of bud growing.....doesn't check her rez amounts etc...so there's a point where you have to commit to doing the basics right and then if you want more yield etc, go from there. All cool to make sure you worm the dog or whatever but make sure you're feeding it first.

I am PONTIFICATING :jointsmile: that your ppm is probably pretty low and will have to come up.....slowly. You talked before about aero and droplets etc....now way out of my range....so it's time to find someone who knows about that stuff. I am wondering if you may want to hold off on switching to bloom nutes depending on what your ppm level is.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I just got done playing with the tester and getting the root situation cleaned up a bit the roots are relatively healthy just growin all over the place in there haha

My tap water is about 200ppm after goin through the britta it's a bit over 100ppm

The res ph is 5.84 or so and it seems to be about as accurate as they claim according to the solution tests

The ppm in the res was pretty low it was like 315 and 115 or so of it is the water so I upped it to around 450 I figure going from 200 to 325 shouldn't be murder on em considering they all have a pretty decent root system goin atleast 18 inches long out the bottom of the nets for the smallest one...

I still can't tell gender on the majority but I believe I have confirmed 2 females...which is atleast a start but since they look so close I wanna make sure it's a guy before I chop em

It will be interesting to see if the leaves stretch up more than before with the extra nutes I'm hoping so cause if I can get them on track to start bloom they might not turn out horrible...

The fan and filter combo are amazing I can't smell anything in the room...even the musty basement smell is completely gone so for that alone it was worth the investment

I'm feeling more confident that the next grow will have most of the kinks worked out...

[Weedhound]

Yes, afraid that was the problem. A tester is so helpful.....you really have to reduce dosages after (or if) you overnute (as I have in my day) but then they certainly need their nutes to flower with. :) I don't know really how much differet aero would be from my bubbler ppmwise considering the spray .....my plants are usually at about 800ppm (using R0 water I start at 15ppm) when I turn them and the one time I ran into iron troubles was when they were at 700 and should have been at 1000 or around there. You may want to contemplate holding off on turning them until they are up there a ways. Keep careful watch for overnute....curling edges, etc (I don't think you will see this because I think they will soak up every nute they can find but...) and keep upping them slowly. Hopefully you will soon have some normal plants. :D

[Weedhound]

One last note....make very sure about male vs female before you toss them. There is one point where they sort of all look like males....;)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Yeah good call WH I'm definately waiting to be sure it's male...since I've been noticing the sex growth they all kinda look ballish but 2 for sure are showing a strand(s) coming out of the ball which I believe means female...I may end up just getting a microscope viewer cause I should probably have one for harvest anyway I bet that would make the sexing easier anyway

I'll post a few more pics in a day or 2 hopefully I'll know the girls by that time later all

[Weedhound]

Well ASD? Good news? Bad news? ANY NEWS?:jointsmile:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

hey WH they haven't really shown one way or the other yet...

I'm using half grow and half bloom nutes now which total close to 500ppm the grow nute has 10-5-14 and the bloom has 5-15-14 there is a 3rd nute that seems to go along with the maxi line called kabloom or somethin that has like 2-38-5 or something which says to add with bloom nutes

what would you say is a good nute to use for bloom? I'm debating on just buying that third one in the maxi line cause they look like they're designed for each other...but if you have a suggestion I could easily just change the nutes I'm using the hydro shop has just about everything...I also have a b-cuzz bloom stimulator which I'm gonna put in once I get yer feedback with the next res change...The res is about due anyway and I figure I can go to full bloom nutes some of the maxibloom/kabloom/bcuzz stimulator unless you have something else that you think would work better? I'm not really sure of the ratios people look for when it comes to the blooming I know ya want a really high P but yours came out awesome and mine are starting to look similar and have about the same target height as well so I'd appreciate yer input ;-)

During the light phase they are really perky now I guess the extra nutes helped out although they still seem to droop almost the same at night...They look healthy and the leaves feel better than before...I've also noticed the water stays at the same ppm and ph as the level goes down in the res so I'm figuring I'm just about perfect...there's a slow rise in ph like .1 or .2 every 24 hours

[Weedhound]

I haven't tried any of the maxi line of nutes so cannot offer you any suggestions there. I like the stuff I use....(Botinicare) but I wouldn't change anything you are doing if it is working for you. :thumbsup: I sort of like to stay with certain lines myself as well because they do seem to enhance each other. When I go to bloom nutes I just change over one day....(I asked about this to my hydro guy cause I'd be more like you....switch slowly)....and he said no...just boom. My usual schedule is to start them at about 200/300 ppm and raise the level one hundred ppm once a week until I hit 1200-1300 then hold it which usually is for a few more weeks. At about the third week of flowering I add the bloom stimulater type thing and cut the reg bloom nutes in half. They are usually at about 800ppm when I turn them and I I change the light over at the same time. About 200ppm of that is suppliments....Liquid Karma and Sweet...and 50% of the total ppm is Cal Mag because I use RO water. I may be revamping this however because I just spoke to X-C who gets about three times the yield I am getting and I full intend to find out how he does it!!!

Interesting side note.......just put some new little purebred feminized seedlings s in my setup and started them at 200ppms.....NOT HAPPY.....touchy touchy so I am starting to see how certain ones could definitely go without nutes for awhile as the big boys have said....the other ones in my setup are fine with it so.....

How about an updated photo of the herd when you can?

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Still wasn't able to get a closeup my camera doesn't work during the day and I can't seem to get any good pics with the small resolution otherwise I can't mail them so this is the best I could do...I can't really tell the difference between any of them yet...they all look like they have some kinda ball where the bud site should be but I don't see any hairs *shrugs* hopefully it's too early I can't imagine I have all 9 males...

When I change the res I'm thinkin about doin the maxibloom with kabloom and then the bcuzz supplement I don't know if maxi is ment to be used with kabloom or you use maxi for a bit and then switch to kabloom or what but I'll ask my hydro guy when I stop in tomorrow...anyway here's the pic they are definately much bigger I really hope I can tell which are males soon because they are growing all into each other

[Weedhound]

Holy CRAP! What did you do to them?!! They are HUGE! They look really good ASD, good work.!!. What a MASS! :D

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I've just basically followed your advice WH...I think one of the biggest things was getting the meter because it let me know how much the plants wanted to eat...I've gotta pick up a few things tomorrow and still have more work on the room but pretty much all that's left is sorting out male from female ;-) I've still got my fingers crossed...hopefully they will will keep truckin along like they have the last 5 days...

[Weedhound]

Well they look really good at this point. They seem to be a nice healthy green color too so :thumbsup: I feel that once you get the basics of hydro it does seem easy and of course while you can get by it REALLY helps to have the equipment to keep things on track. Right tool for the job blah blah. Otherwise it's just guessing and that can really be frustrating.

You've done the work here so it's your ballgame. :) I will check back and see how things are; males/females etc...

[tomasinho]

Good thread you guys! Good advice and good job following the advice. I love this site.

[Weedhound]

Thanks Tom :)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Hey WH you said you use RO water, I was wonderin what type of system you have...all the ones I've seen have to be installed to a water supply and have a waste line of water...not the end of the world considering water is like 1/4 a penny per gallon here but I was just wondering if yours required installation or is it just one where you pour the water in a top res and it comes out in another tank where it's purified?

I've seen this one online that claims 100gpd at zero ppm 6 stage ro+di...it looked like the ebay price was like 160 after shipping with a tank...I'm looking into this cause the britta is a pain in the ass to use and it still only gets the water consistantly under 120...I'd prefer a system that would definately get under 30ppm but obviously the closer to zero the better...

[Weedhound]

Thought here......when I first started this project my hydro guy told me to try my tap water first....just straight.....because it is loaded with good things like calcium, iron etc...The main problem with tap water is that sometimes (I have well water by the way) there are things in it which keep your ph from remaining stable. This happened to be true for my water and I have the very same problem using it for my fishtank. The ph climbs...no matter what....no matter where. I tried the britta filter (which didn't do anything for me) and (ps my hydro guy says all those filters do is take out the good things like minerals etc...so he is not crazy about them....the britta type things I mean) and it was only after my hair was standing on end with frustration that we broke down and bought an RO filter which turned out to be exactly what I needed.

I was thinking about you yesterday and was again PONTIFICATING ;) to perhaps suggest you try your regular tap water. According to what i have read you would simply mix your nutes to the number you need and just add that number to the number you started with in your water.....in other words just pretend the water is at 0.

Is there a way you can test your water...minus britta....to see if your ph will remain stable? Perhaps put a fair amount in a bowl, test it, adjust it, leave it, retest....over a day or so?

I am certainly not arguing that you should not buy an RO system if you'd like....I love mine....use it for the fish and the plants but I am just remembering my hydro guy telling me that generally tap water is good for your plants. Even the small amount of chlorine in tap water can be beneficial for them apparently. Just depends on your type of water.

[Weedhound]

More thoughts....I mentioned trying your tap water because you are using it already (w/Britta) and seem to have your ph probs under control. When I used the Britta it did not help control the ph of my water at ALL. Your plants also seems to be liking that water and growing nicely with it so that is why I'm betting it's worth trying rather than investing in an RO system.

I do love my system...it's a SpectraPure....50gpd. There are several things involved with these systems just to give you a heads up. Ours is extremely easy to set up and take down. Just screw the line on to your faucethead or hose and find someplace for the waste water and a bucket for the processed water. Couldn't be simpler. Like hooking up an extra hose or something.

If you use RO water you will need to also use CalMag or something to help replace lost minerals, calcium etc...

You will need something to keep your RO water in.....we use a 50 gal plastic storage barrel. A clean plastic trash can will work fine for you. Once in awhile I have to toss some H202 into it to keep algae out and we have a fish heater in it to keep the water at about 65 degrees.

Don't know what area you live in but on the box in HUGE letters it says you cannot leave your filter outside in freezing temps....

When i looked into these filters I asked a couple people about RO vs RO/DI and was told that RO alone was a better choice for fish and plants. I cannot remember why but.......I'm sure someone else on these boards knows the answer to that.

Just some more cud to chew on and meditate over.....

[alwayssleepdeprived]

cool thanks for the info...I had tried tap water in the beginning and I think that was one of the issues they had...once I switched to the britta I could definately see a difference that looked to be directly linked as far as I could tell...so I'm thinking if 200 to 100 was that much an improvement goin from 100 to 10ish or 0 if possible would be best to start. I did a lot of reading on RO systems and found that the last step in 6 filter systems makes it better to drink taste etc don't know why water with nothing in it wouldn't have the most prefered taste but maybe it would feel weird on your teeth cause it's so hungry for molecules or somethin the ions. For plants it seems that as close to 0 as possible is ideal and add nutes from there...for humans it seems that some treatment filters help taste and benefit like some calcium in trace parts so it's not pulled from your teeth etc...I'm debating on getting one cause our tap water is at 190-200 and that's just not acceptable for plants or drinking...the cheapest I could find 3-5 stage systems was 100 bucks a bit more with storage tanks and pump(s) etc

I chopped one down today, I was 99% sure it was a male as I could see several ball like lookin things in one pocket...I took a pic but not sure how good it's gonna be, I'll post it a little later. down to 8 potential I'd be happiest with 4 or 5 so hopefully the food I'm adding today will help expedite the sexing process

[Weedhound]

That's always what I look for...several pods together before I'm really sure it's a male. Sometimes it can take awhile to be really sure.

The RO system I have is only a three stage basic since I only use it for the fish and plants. I don't know if a 100/gpd system would hook up the same way especially as you plan to use the water for drinking etc...so pays to check I'm sure. I have been EXTREMELY happy with what it has done for my plants and could not be convinced to change back at this point. If you have had problems with your original tap water then yes, this is the way to go for you. Aren't we bad once we start tasting a tidbit of success? :D

Growing these plants has become extremely addictive in and of itself to me and sounds like you are heading down the same path..:)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I cut another male down today I think I got a better picture of this one so lemme know what ya think but I was convinced it was male...actually most of the ones that had any sign of sex a week ago seem to be all males hopefully I'll have atleast 2 girls I'm fairly sure about 3 more males but I'm gonna give em another day or 2

I have the res at 5.9 and just over 600ppm ( 2/1 teaspoon maxibloom/koolbloom with a bcuzz stimulator )

Anyway I'll get a pic of some of the tops...1 of em that looks male is all white and bushy at the top I'll get a few more pics later tonight...

[Weedhound]

Yes that's a male. Bummer. The good news is that generally the males show first (I guess so they can be ready to jump on the females) so you will usually see them before the females (except for the preflowers.) The ones that lag and take forever are usually the babes. Males also tend to be taller and lankier looking then the females Neither of these things are set in stone however so always best to wait and make sure. :) ;) The leaves on your plants look great ASD! Nice and healthy from this photo. Keep it up.!! :thumbsup:

[mackSwell]

Hi always...

Looking oh-so-much better! Glad your babies recovered.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Hey mack good to see ya unfortunately bad news

ok well I've just finished chopping some more down...one of the males looked awesome it had a tight cola forming but it definately had a lot of balls showing too

Out of the 9 to start 6 have been confirmed males...I believe the original giant that I topped has shown female there is one node with 2 little white hairs comin out so atleast the pruned and biggest tree is gonna be a female...of the 2 left to sex one is a short stout indica which has really nice development and node distance and the other is a thin weak looking thing that got overtaken by the taller males so I'll have to see if it will recover and thicken up

I'm pretty sure about the 1 female but I'd love to get the stout indica atleast as another girl cause they were the 2 best looking ones of the bunch and it would make up for the 2/9 female/male ratio I read somewhere that stress makes em more likely to be male so maybe that messed them up even with the stress I'll be pretty bummed with only one chick...

I'm going to be taking clones off the big female and I guess just wait and see on the other 2 at this point...I'm also planning to start another round of seeds that I'm thinking about just growing and sexing really early to find the girls and just cloning from there rather than growing them as big as I did this time...

With all the males I cut down it's sad that none is even worth smoking...except maybe the top of the hairy lookin one it did look pretty sick with the little bush on top haha I might try to catch a buzz off that when it's dry but I can't imagine it'll work

Time to pray the last 2 are girls

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I've cleaned out all the stray roots and moved the remaining girls to the corner spots...From now on I'll call the best girl Eve as she was biggest from the start and first to show pistils...the thin weak one will be called Olive...and the dark leaved stout one Zola

I'm not positive the last 2 are girls yet but I'm just being optimistic :D

I have a clone of Eve started already and it seems to perk the leaves up when I put the dome on and after a while of the dome bein off it seems to droop back down...Not sure how the clone should really start to look and all that but it's definately been more than 2 weeks...the very tip of the leaves are yellow and on one of the bigger fan leaves yellow is spreading so any advice would be appreciated

I'm thinking about getting or making an aerocloner cause once I know which are girls for sure I'm gonna take more clones from Eve and Zola if it's a girl...I'll wait and see how olive shapes up before I bother messing with her

I'll post a pic a little later tonight

PS.....PH is almost 6....ppm is almost 600...the water level should drop slower which will be nice as they were drinkin a few gallons a day with all 9 ;)

[Weedhound]

Yes ik'm told stress can make more males than females.....if you are going to clone though it won't make any difference at that point. I will check in to make sure the last two are girls......here's hoping....

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I've noticed the ph climb faster than before with the bloom nutes...I'll have to keep an eye on the speed it rises...

The pic shows Eve at the top left Olive at the top and the bottom right is Zola

The pic is kinda blurry but it shows well enough the size of em...

Olive seems to have a hard time holding the leaves up...not sure if it's just a bad plant or what but she's definately thin stems

Yer right about the clones...Eve is a definate at this point unless she goes herm on me and as long as Zola is a female I'll be taking clones of those 2 because of the traits...Eve is a fast grower and Zola has a very dense node setup...I didn't even top her and she's got 7 cola's the same amount as Eve which was topped

I'm not sure how well the clone of eve is working out but I'm thinking I gotta get a cloner cause the dome doesn't really allow for much growth with only a starter plug

WH have you heard that seeds produce more yield with higher potency? and if so how much more than clones? I'd rather just run with clones unless seeds are really that much better I guess I could run a batch for seeds...

It'll be interesting to see how the smaller ones react now that they aren't being smothered ;-)

[tomasinho]

Here we go! Pistils and everything! Now the fun begins!

[Weedhound]

It's normal for the ph to begin rising more quickly during blooming due to higher nutrient needs....mine really starts to go up about week 4 into blooming. I do check mine much more often towards the end.

Tom is right....now it's starting to get to the good stuff.

Good work ASD.:thumbsup:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I'm still debating on what type of clone propogator to go with I'm reading up on stuff now...

Eve has shown 2 more pistil sets but the growth is extremely slow so far it's possible I did some root damage when I pulled all the other ones out so I'll have to wait and see...

No real change on the other 2 just yet so I'm still hoping they're fem

I noticed that the ppm is climbing very slowly which sounds like they have just as much food as they want...

I can't remember how fast bud develops...is it fairly slow at the beginning and gains speed as you get further into flower?

I was also wonderin if there is any harm in taking a clone from a lower branch when it's in flower?

I'm definately excited for the next several weeks and once I get the same genetics it should be easy to just keep raising the light evenly and all that...

[Weedhound]

ASD don't ask me one single thing about clones and cloning......never even seen a clone in real life, lol. You should still raise your nutes slowly....don't stop.....this may be why the growing is slow. Obviously watch for burn though. After a few days your ppms don't accurately reflect WHICH nutes are still there and how much.....only a total number. Your plants will take up different nutes at different levels.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Gotcha WH I think you are right again about needing more food...that would explain a healthy look and feel with little growth...I'm testing a few things with ppm now and I've heard from a few people that use aero that have also noted that although the ppms start off really low they do increase pretty quick once the plant is established...I'm thinking this might be due to the roots hanging in air when they are tiny and it becomes more of a dwc once they're laying on the root chamber...

currently at 700ppm and tomororw if they still look fine I'll be going to 800ppm...Eve looks pretty much the same besides a couple more sites showing pistils but the other 2 are definately showing growth...<= this also leads me to believe they could use more food

I've decided to test a theory...I mixed up the next nute solution for the res today and I'll just dump it in tomorrow...I'm hoping that will reduce the ph fluctuation that seems to happen shortly after adding nutes I'll update if I can see anything significant

Even's clone is showing some signs of growth as well and should be transplanted from the organo plug soon. I want a system that will allow me to start from seed/clone and find out the sex too if possible...still thinking about making my own but the room has taken longer than expected to setup so that idea is backburnered atleast for now...

I did start preparing another batch of seeds (no idea of origin but my friend claimed they're awesome) they are currently sitting in a shotglass of water until I notice em crack...still debating how I want to start them once they're ready but I got time :p atleast 15 hours or so

I wanna stay away from dirt entirely if I can so that means I may have to get a few more systems prepared asap guess tomorrow is gonna be a busy one

I'll post some new pics soon probably when bud is big enough to photo

[Weedhound]

ASD You WILD ANIMAL, you! Look at you go! Addictive isnt it? ;)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

hehe I know I should be in bed but I've been learning more about this stuff than I've wanted to learn about anything else in a long time...not just mj but botony in general it is definately addictive :jointsmile:

I'm 90% sure the extra nutes will speed up development I'm going to up the nute strength 100ppm per day till I see some burn just so I know the limit

Time to watch the sopranos and sleep...tomorrow's adventures are gonna rock

PS How are your babies doin by the way? I'd assume at this point they've really started to take shape...hope they're thriving like your last grow :cool:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Olive and Lola seem to be males...I'm not positive as there is only one ballsack but from the way the other males developed I can pretty much consider it a done deal...Olive has strengthened up a bit but still thin/weak and Lola was looking very nice with really tight spacing...if I woulda known only one female woulda made it I would have kept the best male which had the bushy top...oh well

Eve has shown a few more pistils and is crawling along as usual...the nutes are now at a little over 800 and if there is no nute burn I'll bring it to about 1000 tomorrow

Pic update soon

[Weedhound]

DO NOT TOSS THEM YET! I have learned the hard way never to call them male until I see at least 2 little male pods together.....later ones are usually female.....wait and make sure....can you photo?

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I still can only see one ball growing on the 2 in question so I haven't chopped em yet...I'm hoping the boost of nutes may just burn Olive so I know where my limit is for size...we'll see though there was no sign of nute burn at all and I know my grow isn't perfect but it can't be that much worse than every other grow log with comparable lighting...

I will take several pics tonight with the good camera and hope they come out good enough to show detail...I'll put up 3 pictures the best sex site of each...I'm at 15 Day flower 5 from when Eve proved female...although the smaller 2 were pretty young so they may take longer to finish

Some of the seeds are cracking so I'll be taking care of those very soon as well...

Until later tonight all

PS 100ppm starting water...Nute distribution is 800ppm of 5-15-14 & 100ppm of 2-45-28 & 50ppm of BCuzz stimulator

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I have an hp 945 it's a 5megapixel with 7 optical zoom...for some reason the screen is all scrambled and pictures/video come out scrambled too so it's not just the viewer

It's possible it's the batteries I'm using as it started when I put in the regular duracells but that was also the time I tried to take a picture with the light on and the lines were shooting across the screen if it's not the batteries I'll try to call hp I guess but at that point it's probably junk

I'll try to get some pics up soon...

PS It looks like the Balls are pretty rounded and plump on Lola but still only one per site and it even looks like towards the top node that there are a couple unexplained white/clearish hairs so I'll update hopefully later tonight with some pics...

PPS Oh and still no nute burn at 1050 so I'm gonna up to 1200 next

[Weedhound]

You may want to hold it there....that's a pretty good amount. I don't usually hit 1200 or so until about week 4 of flowering. Going even slower with these new seedlings....pickiest little things I have ever seen.

The little hairs sound hopeful.....I will check back. :thumbsup:

[bongerstonerd00d]

AS-Deprive, why not make ya a bubble cloner? All ya need is a Sterilite type container, the foam plugs, and a spade drill bit. Grab an air pump (10-15 bucks), and one or two of those flexible airstones and you are set. I built one for a friend about 3-4 months ago, 8 sites. I think the container I used for his was 22" or so long and maybe 12-14" wide and 4" or so high. Find the center of lid, mark holes symetrically from there and drill. Drill two holes for your air lines to go in lid, lay your airsontes under where your clone plugs will be, fill with pH'd water and voila. Take some medium grit sandpaper and scuff up the outside of the plastic including lid. Grab a can of black spray paint and put two coats on it. For 30 bucks you got a neat little cloner. Toss under a T5 4 bulb two foot light.

Dont forget you need some Clonex Gel and you MUST get some Wilt Pruf. Wilt Pruf is nectar from the clone gawds in my opinion.

This shit they charge 100-200 bucks for can usually be made for about 30. It might not look all fancy and purty, or have a fancy name, but if it does the same job, who cares?

b0nger

[Weedhound]

What's Sterlite?

[bongerstonerd00d]

'Hound, its the brand name of those plastic storage type containers. Rubbermaid makes also. And I am sure there are others. The Dollar Store I went to just happened to carry that brand. I think I paid a whole 5 bucks for it. I liked it because the top snaps to the bottom with the handle thing-mah-jigs.


b0nger

[Weedhound]

I've been thinking about making a cloner as well...Thanks for the info Bonger.:)

[bongerstonerd00d]

NP 'Hound. Any questions, hit me up. I build all kinds of neat stuff. Retired now, got all kinds of time and tools.

ASD, not trying to hijack yer thread, d00d. Just tossing out a simple and cheap solution for you or anyone else if they want to make a cloner.



b0nger:D

[tomasinho]

ASD - Good idea on feeding them more! But dont go too high...nute burn really blows! I hate fixing it - its such a fucking waste of water and time! Anyway - aero is notoriously hard for beginners - I am still trying to master simple ebb and flow! You are doing a good job - its all about learning. You will get better and better every crop. In a year youll have 4 -6 crops under your belt! It will be much easier every time. Peace out buddy.

[Weedhound]

dont go too high...nute burn really blows!

You never spoke a truer word Tom. Best advice in this forum.:thumbsup:
Sometimes I think it comes down to what number you are most comfortable with. I have seen some people around who go up to 1800....that would simply cause me heart palpitations!

Bonger thanks for the offer....I will look for you when I start to build. ;) :D

[bongerstonerd00d]

'Hound? Did you read my post from when you were talkin blueblood genetics ? If ya did, and you keep growin the same strains those notes I talked about keepin will be priceless. You will dial in exactly what the PPM needs to be thru all phases of your grow and have it at your fingertips. Fuck guess work, make it a tried and true method.

I value mine so much I even burn to a CD weekly and keep at a remote location so I always have a back up copy.

Cant beat flippin to "Week 5" and seeing exactly what the plants wanted/needed for that week and how they reacted for each grow. Can see what yer temps were, RH, pH, PPM, wooohaa woohaa woohaaa.....you get my drift.

b0nger

[Weedhound]

No, but I will go check it out pronto! Thanks.....XXXX:jointsmile:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

PH @ 5.9 PPM @ 1200

Thomas & WH you are right about nute burn when they were babies I nearly killed em...but I've seen almost 0 sex development at 16 Days in flower so I was getting anxious...it's been about 17 hours since I dumped in the nutes at this point so unless I see somethin bad I'll just chill here for now (I was wondering if temp affects ppm...like if a plant sweats more would ya need to have a lower ppm cause it wants to drink more water which takes in more nutes?)

bonger thanks for the info on the bubbler I gotta put somethin together really soon...feel free to post all ya want I'm not picky...I'm glad you mentioned the cd for comparison/guidance cause that is statistical data and the only thing better than data(experience) is formula...I feel the best way to grow is just find what makes the plant thrive...if you have the right instructions from the start you should get pretty close to the ideal result...

Have you come up with a structure for saving that data and used excel to create mean comparisons between the variables? For instance...if you were gonna grow a new strain you could weight the variables accordingly and get a list of estimated grow constraints for that strain...once you've harvested you'd have practical results to go over the original estimates and tighten up the +/- on your weighting system...lemme know if yer interested cause I'm starting to ramble again haha it would make a killer program though if you could type in a list of however many things and it spits out what you should do

I actually just saw Zandor post that 5.2-5.5 is the ideal ph for hydro...I created a thread with 4 questions I think related to that subject and hopefully it sparks some conversation if nothing else...I've read that ph needs change throughout and the ph vs nute uptake charts seem to support it but without experience I wanted to hear what Z has to say cause practice differs from theory(not that theory is wrong just that the people creating the theory usually don't think of everything) I've read 5.5 to 6.5 but the only thing I've had to guide that is if you want to absorb more N or P...I'd much rather know why you should be at a specific PH when you have a certain list of variables ie strain lighting ppm nodes etc but if he's right (regardless of why) I certainly wanna drop from the 5.9 I'm at now

As for the plants...Eve has a bunch of pistil sites now but they are all still very tiny, even the first site to show isn't any bigger I got a couple pics of her...Zola has a couple hairs that I can't explain as a leaf cause they look too white/clear I got a pic but it doesn't look the best...Olive is a bit taller/thicker but no sex development to speak of and no clear pics of her at all yet

I fixed my camera...I remembered it went screwy when it was watching the light refresh rate like those old monitors so I took it back when the light was on and aimed it right at the bulb...the screen went crazy for a second but then came back into focus musta been stuck trying to account for those refresh waves even though they weren't there anymore...it worked fine after that till the batts died...I was using reg duracell (junk) instead of my rechargable camera batts cause those were like 5 years old and finally went...I'll get new ones soon and see if I can post some better pics oh and the camera is 8 optical to correct my earlier post I've been taking pics on a super low resolution cause I've had to e-mail them but that should be fixed soon too

I'm not sure it matters but I picked up an air pump and some air stones for my res I was thinking about placing the stones near the pump intake so the solution is O2'd rather than pumping it in through the hydroton lemme know what ya think

PS 5 of the seeds have cracked so I made a little paper towel setup for em...they're between 2 damp papertowels on a plate that's sitting on a cookie sheet with a pyrex baking bowl over the plate to hold in moisture I put some water in the cookie sheet so I don't have to worry about it drying out for a longer period of time and just put the whole setup on a heating pad haha a picture would explain that way better I'm sure...getting tired

Tons more work to do but it's time for bed...lemme know if ya can tell Zola is a chick from the pic:cool:

[Weedhound]

Day 16 and very little turning? Start checking for light leaks. That's not your nutes talking.....that's in your lighting I would think.

I don't know about Z's ph level....mine will start to show problems at 5.2...bending etc... i will lower my level during flowering to about 5.4 at latewood's suggestion if I remember correctly....something to do with higher P uptake I think. I would LOVE to listen to Z's stuff but I have dial-up at 26k and just can't do it.....it would take me years to download.

All that talk about variables etc.... Holy Tamoly! I think I've gotten in with some scientists.....you guys are starting to scare me. :D

[Weedhound]

So I cannot tell from your photos which plant is which....pic in the middle is definitely female....don't see anything specific in the other two photos. The leaves look nice, green and healthy.....they are definitely getting plenty of nutes. If they are still growing but not really turning I think you have a lighting issue.

Somewhere around here Zandor posted a cool chart on uptake of different nutrients in hydro and what ph levels are ideal for each. I'll see if I can find it because he posted it for me before and I believe I saved it somewhere. :)

[bongerstonerd00d]

'Hound, here is the chart: http://boards.cannabis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21560&d=1121829312

ASD, no, I have not done any manipulation of the collected data as of yet. I really didnt have enough to complie anything I would have felt worthwhile to be honest. I'll have about 4 more grows by next winter so that may be something to tinker around with while I am stuck in the house with snow up to my ass.......LOL

When and if I do, I'll be sure to share.

b0nger

[Weedhound]

Bonger you are all over it! Thanks. :D

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I changed the setup a little bit and got mylar over 2 walls in a corner....I'll get it sealed better tomorrow but I kinda ran outta time...light is goin off soon

7 seeds have now popped (2 new ones today) the 2 biggest ones are about 1/8 inch long I'll wait till they're about 1/4 to plant em I should have done this before putting em all in soil before...and with the reading I came across scuffing up the seed with some sand paper to help expedite the process...I'll try that with the seeds that haven't popped by monday

The clone was put near a window yesterday and actually showed some decent growth so I'm certain it's rooted I'll be planting that monday as well haven't decided how just yet but ehh I'll wing it

Currently the ph is at 6 so I'm gonna drop it to 5.7 and tomorrow to 5.4 especially with that chart info I really don't need them getting any taller just bud...

I'll try to get some better pics tomorrow as well...talk to everyone soon ;-)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

ok the ph down did more than I thought 2 caps brought 12 gallons from 6 to 5.4 but atleast that was my target anyway so it's not the end of the world...the plants might not like the .6 swing but ehh they've delt with worse :D

After looking at the chart I'm preparing for burn cause I had upp'd the nutes at 5.8-6.0 but if I can eek by they should burst into bloom...I'll keep an eye on it several times tonight to be sure I avoid a catastrophy haha...

and WH don't worry bout the science talk...it would be nice if I could give a couple tips back that help your grow(s) since you've helped me so much already...anyway enjoy the weekend :cool:

PS I'm 99% sure that Zola is a chick so that makes 2...hopefully Olive will follow shortly

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I just looked at the chart that bonger posted and it says P is available from 6.1 to 5.8 so I'm still kinda confused I thought P was the main nute for this stage of growth...if ya could help explain the basics bonger I'd appreciate it...I've been measuring in the water of my res to get the readings as a heads up.

I was thinking maybe ya need 5.2-5.5 like Zandor said in the res cause when you spray the solution in mix with air the ph goes up or somethin so at the roots if they aren't just hangin in the water it will even out to the right ph...I'm gonna keep looking for info but if anyone knows just offer it up

ok now I'm out for real...

[Weedhound]

Ok...you've gone off just a little too far in the other direction here......I can barely even remember yelling at you in one of the first posts about your shoddy ph practices way back...:D You are making yourself nuts. Your plants will do just fine at 5.8.....you will not fry them (especially at this stage)by adding nutes at 5.8 vs 5.4. Calm yourself.;) My first grow I had five plants and kept the ph approx 6-6.2 dont ask me why. I ended up with 8 1/2 oz from five plants. Next grow....3 plants....7 oz....ph at about 5.8-6.0. Third grow had the rootbound problems......7 oz per five plants. This time I dropped ph to 5.4. I will drop it again to that level in later flowering as well because I'm sure that was not my probem but I am not having visions of pounds because of it. Are you seeing where I am going with this?

Now....go toke a bowl and congratulate yourself....you have done a very good job and I have no doubt your plants will come through absolutely fine. :thumbsup: And forget about the ph for a day (can't believe I'm saying that.:eek:)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

hehe thanks I get kinda wrapped up sometimes...

when you were talking about the light leaks were you refering to not enough light being sent to the plants like it was leaking out of the grow room or did you mean leaking into the res? the only place where light can enter the res is a 1 inch circular whole where the pump cable goes in I'm sure I could stuff that shut if it's an issue...I haven't noticed anything building up in the tank itself besides just a tiny (about the area of a quarter) around the pump hose that sends the water to the root chamber...this little bit seems to vanish if I stir up to take a ph/ppm reading so I wasn't all that worried about it before...

Tomorrow is gonna be fun cause I get to start work on the cloner ;-)

[Weedhound]

Actually what I mean by light leaks is lighting getting into the room during the dark period of 12/12. The room must be absolutely black....no outside light sources coming in....AT ALL! This is pretty critical during flowering as any differing patterns of lighting will completely confuse the plant. Remember my friend? Her first grow she "forgot" to turn the light off several times...a few times didn't cover it well so light got in......her plants reverted back to vegetative growth. Another cool side effect of light leaks.....major hermi-ness. Your growing area should be as lightproof as if you were developing photos......;)

[Weedhound]

One last tidbit....the photos from earlier today.....for day 16 I would be very happy with that amount of "femaleness" showing on the plant in the middle pic...don't know why it took me all day to put the photo together with the discussion....peanut-headedness I guess. ANYWAY it seems right on "turning time" to me so all that discussion about lights leaking is probably all moot anyway.

:D :thumbsup: :jointsmile:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Gotcha thanks for the quick responseI musta had a brain fart that I didn't take "light leaks" as the dark period...I realized it when I woke up this morning and decided to come post that I was being a dumb dumb before...

Well here's the basic setup of the room...it's completely closed so at night the only thing it gets is a tiny sliver of light through the vent window...and there were 2 orange lights, one on the surge protector and another orange one on the heat fan to regulate the temp in the room as it gets kinda cold at night...both of these lights are clearly visible if you look right at them so they could possibly be having some affect(but obviously not very bright...I'll get some spray can insulation to catch any tiny leaks into the room and use duck tape to cover the window and 2 orange lights...Once I'm done constructing the room it will be completely black I'm still using plastic as some of the walls etc actually there will be 2 or 3 sectioned rooms inside the big room I'm making now but I'm still debating on that so I'll keep ya guys posted

Except for those 3 spots I couldn't see the back of my hand at arms length in front of my face so hopefully it wasn't that bad

And I do remember the hermie situation...I think I read somewhere that forcing a hermied female to pollinate the other females creates feminized seeds...I think I'll probably use that technique at some point

Yer probably right about the "femaleness"...I didn't think of this before but the first pistil had only shown 11 days prior to that pic...that combined with all the other stresses might cause a low yield anyway...since I've only done 2 soil grows before this and never any experience with water I don't have a good way to estimate.

I'll just try to be patient, maybe my mouth is just watering for some cause I've been sober for so long

PS I've been wonderin how are your babies comin along? Have you been able to up there nutes yet?

[Weedhound]

They seem to be doing well at this point.....they've been in hydro since 3/10 and I'm just now getting them to 400ppm. I've already topped them once. Will post a pic when they grow back in a litte. :)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I can't wait to see them hound I'm glad they are doin well...just outta curiosity how many times to you top em? cause if I remember right you had bushes the last time ;-)

I plugged up the few light leaks I knew of and ended up checking once the light turned off to make sure...I found that the space heater that goes on once the light is off seems to glow...the coils heat up to produce heat but have somewhat significant lighting as a side effect so I just removed the space heater for now...I don't think the room will get under 60 anymore and hopefully the plants won't mind growin at 68-70 during the day

The roots of the cracked seeds grew incredibly last night and 2 are almost 1" long so I'll have to be gentle when planting them

Eve has shown a bit more development but doesn't have nearly the speed of Zola...lotsa hairs poking out now even a bit out the top of each shoot I'm 100% on her now and if she continues at this rate I'll be using her clones only as the mother if the bud is comparable to Eve anyway but I have a long way off before worrying about that

Now I just have to prepare myself for Monday heh

[tomasinho]

They all look female to me but for real you gotta get it dark as hell in there at night. ANd try to not let the temps fluctuate more than 10-20 degrees. The plant is hearty and delicate at the same time. It can be hard to get all the temps right and the lights dark and the nutes in the right spot but you gotta do all that shit to get the dope. But the dope is dope as hell. The plants will survive the mistakes we make - gracia de deus.

[Weedhound]

They do survive indeed...thank god for the way I treat them. Tom is right (again!..he is on it!!!:))about the darkness....that may very well be why the going is slow....not dark enough. Like developing a photo.....

I usually top my plants twice to end up with 4 main colas....last time I think I topped everything 3 or 4 times which was a huge part of my problem. Yes they grow back but with the limited room for roots and leaves etc it was not a good thing to do. This time I will top my usual amount which seems to work the best for me with spacing, lighting etc...

Since I see the link here I'm off to check out Tom's grow.....more later.....

[bongerstonerd00d]

Dark as in dark, as in pitch black dark, as in so dark if you spin around 3 times real fast you have no idea where the door is....LOL

I have seen it said that a "little light" doesnt hurt because outside there is the moon and stars, and streetlights, and what the hell ever. I say bullshit. Make it pitch black, period!

Dial in ventilation and make the room light tight, and then worry about growing. More air in than you take out. Dats da ticket. Yer plants will luv ya fer it.


b0nger

[Weedhound]

True Bonger, too true. I had some outdoor stuff that hermied due to a (not very much) amount of light coming through a kitchen window at night.....turned out to be plenty to screw up the plant. Had two nice flowering haze plants about 4 feet tall that hermied on me. These days I use the DM Feminiser (now called Reverse) and not a hermie since those days but I'm also very careful about my lighting. It's amazing to me how much stuff has been invented for growing since my younger days (the ice age :D )

Ps I ended up hanging some very dark materialed curtains in a corner of my spare bedroom to lightproof the growing section. Works great for me and very easy to pull back the curtains daily to light up the room. Also helps with the ventilation as the air flow is slowed but not restricted.

[bongerstonerd00d]

Hell, I invented dirt, and remember when rocks were still soft......LOL I am an oldtimer myself. Make it pitch black, and save yer money on that Reverse stuff.

Old lady was overly impressed when she came home and I had plywood boxes built over the windows. She thought that was real special. Was almost as good as the day I took the wall to wall carpet up in my grow room. I think the only reason she puts up with it is becuse from 6 at night til 11-12 she never sees me. I have a small flat screen, laptop, and a little desk with a comfy office chair in the corner with a partition up so the HPS's dont blind me. Even put a laundry sink with R.O./regular water in grow room. Makes nute changes a breeze now. Existing plumbing was already in the wall, just had to tap into it. Very simple. Now Zandor says I need a cement mixer. Shit, I am not sure how I am going to convince her its a must have device, but I am thinking:D :D

Keep em growin,
b0nger

[Weedhound]

Once you get that cement mixer.....do you do rentals? :D

[Weedhound]

No I love my Reverse....and all the other toys etc I got talked into. All I need is one or two times when we aren't home for a power outage to occur and there goes my timer....and light schedule. We're way in hicksville so stuff like that happens alot. I mean...I have dial-up at 26k......surprised we get the internet at all.

The first year I grew I ended up with 15 female plants....some outside and some hydro...and came up with four hermies. Only the two haze plants had the window problem....god only knows what i did to the others. Last two grows I used reverse....10 females....0 hermies. And while I never PLAN to stress my plants......believe me all my stress to them is done with the specific intent of IMPROVING them....not killing them if you'll buy that one....it just seems to keep happening anyway so I need all the help I can get. :D

[bongerstonerd00d]

Nah, 'Hound. You can use when needed free of charge. I could just see it now. Her catch me with a brand new cement mixer (plastic drum) out in the garage drilling holes in it. She'd have me committed for sure.

Those boxes over the windows wrok great by the way. What I did was put 3 dow pins in the piece of 2x4 I screwed to studs above the window. Then when you build box drill holes to line up with pins in the piece of plywood that will be the top of your box. You can sit box right on there and the dow pins hold 'er right in place. You need a piece of 2x4 along each side of winder and one across bottom also. But with them dow pins you can lift off when ya want/if needed with no hassle. And you get zero light leaks. Screw 1x1's to the plywood to the side where you will need to attach other pieces to minus the 1 1/2-3/4 (depends on the 2x4) inches for the 2x4 frame so its flush with wall. I should snap some foto's of this stuff. Easy as hell to make, but really hard to explain.

Easiest way to do is drill plywood first where dow pins will fit in top piece, then hold 2x4 against and mark holes on it. Then drill yer 2x4, stick cut pieces of dow pins in holes with a little wood glue, and voila. Doesnt matter if one is 1/2 inch or so longer. I am a perfectionist, so I installed mine. Then I measured each one to 3/4 inch length and sawed them off so all were perfectly even. No need for all that tho. That beats the hell outa tryin to measure to center of each pin, not lining up, frustration, heavy drinking, throwing tools, etc etc etc. And best part is if anyone were to look from outside all you see is the closed mini blind. No idea there is anything behind it.


b0nger

[Weedhound]

Heavy drinking, throwing tools. Oh yeah, THAT one sounds familiar. I'll be giggling about that the rest of the day now :S2: ....wanted to rep you for that one but already did....:(

[alwayssleepdeprived]

ok well I have it so dark in there now I can't see anything to walk around...haha atleast without falling hopefully that will improve...it does seem like Zola is turning quicker than Eve...

I think I read that smaller plants finish quicker so I guess that would mean they turn quicker too...lemme know if that makes sense ;-)

Zola is starting to look like she's got little tufts of hairs/leaves so if I remember right and from the pics she's goin the right way but Eve is doin the same thing just looks like it's slower...Eve is like 30 inches tall where Zola is only 18

That cement mixer sounds like fun...I'm definately planning on fixing up some plumbing and all that I'll get pictures of my setup once it's put together a little better everything is jumbled right now...

That sucks about the power WH and generators are too expensive to be practical...hopefully you don't have that often

I'm off to find a way to plant the new babies I'll check back later ;-)

[Weedhound]

Actually we do have a 6500 watt gas gen....but if you aren't there to start it up.... It is hooked into the existing power supply so you can flip a switch and it will power things up BUT the plants are last in line for it.....behind the well, the heat, (or a/c as the case may be) the fridge, the fishtanks etc..... It kind of does happen alot around here....drunks hitting power poles, branches falling on power lines, fires.....For the plants it's really just a timing issue.....if power goes off for an hour during the day the plants will still get light but the timer will pick up where it left off....an hour late. If the pump is off for an hour or so I won't worry....any more than that and I'll use the gen for it.

[bongerstonerd00d]

ASD, according to my buddy (Union Electrician), those home generators really should not be used for powering H.I.D. lights anyways. He went into some long winded explanation about steady current or current spikes, or something. It was one of the conversations after 12-15 beers and a few d00bs. So the Cliff Note version is I dont think wise to use them.

I have a whole house propane that has some kinda switch/relay thing between generator and panel box that regulates current, or prevents surges or spikes, or whatever that makes it fine to use for my lights he said. But those portable ones must not be the ticket. I too, live in BFE. I've been 3-4 days years ago w/o power. Hence the whole house generator.

Not having to listen to the old lady bitch for 3-4 days is worth every damn dime I have in that generator. I mean everything in life has its price. Just some more expensive than others....LOL:D :D

b0nger

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Do you have to flip the generator on? I think I've seen generators that switch on automatically to avoid any power shutdown to appliances and all that...not really sure how that setup works and all I've never had to deal with a generator other than just doin work on a job site but those were just gas powered on wheels that you could cart around with ya...

[alwayssleepdeprived]

rofl I hear ya on the generator...I've only used them to do repair work aka tools and lighting to do carpentry....I've never used em for hid lights and I guess I could see the spikes bein a problem...I'd want to make sure like you said it was a smooth power transmition to avoid damage to the bulb and ballast....my girl is fine with stuff as long as she doesn't have to deal with it...so I just try to make everything as hands off as possible...the last thing I need is her complaining about when she was blinded when she walked into a room or the water wasn't working...god forbid a circuit breaker trip...rofl

I'm just psyched that the girls are looking like they're turning...I'm hopin to have some to burn eventually cause I've been sober for too long now I basically decided to grow once I realized there was nothing around here worth it...nothing worse than taking 15 bong hits and having a headache with barely a buzz to show for it

[bongerstonerd00d]

ASD, mine kicks on weekly to test itself, and then its automatic when power goes off. Its literally a few seconds. The wiring from it comes underground in conduit and then into this box that has I dont know what the hell its called, then into panel box. If I had to guess I would imagine a transformer of some sort or something. I guess whatever triggers it to kick on is in that box also. It has a timer you set for it to do its test. Can pick time of day you want to run.

If it were to not work, I would not be messing with it. I'd call my buddy. That much power is out of my league. Way out. I dont need in that box peeking around.......LOL

RUns quiet as hell, can barely hear it when you are outside and its running. If I am not mistaking I think mine is 20 KW. I know I can run everything we want to with no problems. Fridge, heat/ac, tv's, computers, freezer, etc. Buddy told me what size to get, and he does this stuff for a living so I took his advice when I bought it.

I have a Honda portable that I sometimes throw in truck if helping someone with outside project. Nice as shit to have so you can run tools w/o dragging extension cords for 3 miles to get some juice. Love a cordless drill, but the rest of the cordless line you can have.

b0nger

[Weedhound]

20k should power your nextdoor neighbors house too.... We've been thinking about getting a propane gen that flips on automatically....something along 10k but the cost..... The one we have now is a pull cord and it's really there to keep the animals in water, us from freezing or overheating and able to cook and see etc. Weve gone several days w/out power as well. There's enough extra power to do all three fishtanks, run the pump and 150 watt light for the plants so.....

I blelieve X-C told me he's got that setup.....propane hooked up directly and turns on automatically....might ask him for that info. ;)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

yeah 20kwh is huge if yer not using that for heating the house/water...we have oil heat steam boiler...and gas stove/waterheater so we use 1.5-2 kw per hour max

I planted 2 of the seedlings earlier and just checked to find they are turning green already...5 more have cracked just waitin till they're big enough

The clone looks about the same just gotta get it in a system

I've been looking but can't seem to find a formula of how much the food the plants want based on ppm change in the res...is this formula based or not so much? it looks like the res with 15 gallons lost a bit over a gallon and went from 1300 to 1250...taken as a linear curve that would mean 15x50 as 750ppm that's like 2000ppm nutes which sounds so high that can't be right...but I upp'd it to 1450 as a comprimise the visions of completely burning them was too much :D

I also got two 5" air stones and a 10-30 gallon air pump to put in with the next res change...debating on how close to put the stones to the water pump...I could probably get them right under it if necessary gimme yer .02

I'll have pics in a day or 2 still not much new to see

[Weedhound]

1450 is DEFINITELY pushing past my limit....especially at this stage of the grow but that's just the way I am. Come to think of it it's really 1350 which is about where I sit in the last 3-4 weeks.....starting at about 10 with about 200 being suppliments but I don't know what formula you are using. As for linear curves and such.....HA HA HA HA. You may as well ask Mother Goose.

As for the air stones....I don't really know what your setup looks like but you want the stones as close to the roots as possible.

Maybe Bonger understands that whole linear curve thing. When my plants ppms drop I just put it back to where I started at....:jointsmile:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

My plants seemed to love the drop in ph so I dropped the to 5.2 to check if I can notice a difference there...after the day of having my ph at 5.4 was when I noticed the drop in ppm so I'm figuring that they were sucking up more nutes...I'm keeping a close eye checking the ph every couple hours and bringing my phone down for soft lighting to check the leaves...so far everything looks fine...I guess it could be several things causing the drop but since I start out I guess I'm only really at 1300 nutes and I figure a few more experiments on these starter girls won't be the end of the world ;)

the formula is how I calculate what ph to make the new solution I'm adding to end up with the ph I want...1 gallons at 5ph and 1 gallon at 6 would result in a ph of 5.5 and you can weight them accordingly like if you have 2 gallons at 5 and 1 at 6 you would do 2x5 + 1x6 and then divide 16/3 which gives 5.33333 so the ph of the solution I'm gonna add is the variable and I solve for that...don't know if it works the same so I'm just gonna do safe trials for now...if I ever find out anything useful I'll be sure to let ya know hehe

The air stones were for a fish tank...I figured I'd just pump the O2 into the water and let the water pump that's always on spray the roots...Do ya know what's better putting air lines in through the hydroton to the root chamber or just pumping O2 into the res solution? I could do either...if I was gonna pump the air in to the root chamber I'd just take back the air stones just go with the tubing...I got the two 5" stones cause I figured I could put them real close to the pump intake and hopefully get a more even mix of O2 and water...Unfortunately yet again I'm clueless on the experience end :(

Ok well I got 3 close-ups....the first 2 are Zola's top main bud sites (the camera made that visible it's still pretty small to the eye) and the last one is the clone of Eve the middle is all new growth and even though the leaves drop a bit when it's not in the humidity dome I'm gonna plant it tomorrow...Lemme know what ya think:smokin:

[bongerstonerd00d]

ASD......hmmmmm on your pH calculation. A pH of 4 is 10 times more acidic than a pH of 5 for example.......Are you testing this water ? I am womdering if you mix one gallon of pH6, and one gallon of pH5, then you should be in the lows 5's.......... not 5.5, correct? Because in theory the water with a pH of 5 wouold have 10 times more acid than water with a pH of 6????????? Or the water with 6 pH would contain 10 times more alkilinity, huh ? Hell, I need some coffee before I debate this one. I shall return to this later.


What a way for you to start my day off....LOL:thumbsup:

b0nger

[Weedhound]

All right ASD....more yelling:

Ok, it has to be just me but......WHY ARE WE MAKING THIS SO HARD???? Put the ppm at 1200, put the ph at 5.4 AND STOP MAKIING THIS A SCIENCE EXPERIMENT! Honestly what do you think is going to happen? Your yield will double or ?? They're PLANTS! These things you are pinpointing as so critical are all on the lesser scale and in doing so I see you losing sight of the basics. You're going in there and lighting up the room in the night to LOOK AT THEM! STOP THIS!!! Your plants were getting by on 300ppm.....now you've thrown them into 1400 IN ABOUT FOUR WEEKS. Your ph...which was QUITE HAPPY at 5.8 suddenly has to be something else. You've changed your ph around here and there so now even IT ISN'T STABLE! ASD you are very lucky I don't know where you are I would be over there pronto to pop you one!!!!!

Now STOP THE INSANITY and grow some plants!!!!:thumbsup:

[bongerstonerd00d]

I looked at documentation for generator last night, its 17.5 kw. Yes, I have electric hot water heater, plus I heat with gas forced air, cool with central air. No idea what my usage per hour is, or do I give a shit. Two mouse clicks and the bill is paid on the 14th of every month. Could not be simpler. Only thing I know is for 12 hours each day I use at least 1800 watts per hour:D :D

Dear gawd, could you imagine me puttin that cash in a generator and then it not quite be "big enough" for the old lady to get a hot shower. Shit, I'd sooner have enough extra power to run a small city than listen to her bitch about that.

Seems I remember I told my buddy that I wanted to BE SURE I could run whatever we wanted to run in the event of a power outage. And I can honestly say, we can.

1450 and they are liking it is awesome. You gonna have buds as big as the unit on a show pony. Keep them gurls crankin. Just keep a careful eye out for burn on 'em. Can always idle 'em back a tad if needed. Nothing like going balls to the wall extreme growing. I LOVE IT!!!!

ASD......'Hound and I discussed this in great detail. But I HOPE you are keeping very detailed notes of the grow. Man, next grow you will be in the drivers seat if you are. You are getting these chicks dialed in and you will know next crop EXACTLY what to do, and when.

I am still pondering that damn pH theory of yours, ASD. 2 cups of coffee and I still cant come to a resolve in this pea brain of mine...........dammit!!

Keep 'em green, guys.
b0nger

[Weedhound]

Bonger don't encourage him or you may be next on my list....(and I'll be bagging that nice generator of yours as well) :D

[alwayssleepdeprived]

In my effort to keep the lights black while playing in the room last night I musta tripped the surge protector and the pump wasn't on till this morning...Eve (big one) is kinda bent over but the leaves still feel fine and all that so hopefully it will recover...I can't believe I did that somehow but it's what I woke up to

bonger you are right about the 10x acidity of the water every full point below 7...so 4 is 1000 times more acidic...the ppm thing has me wondering still I'll check back if I can find anything interesting there...

WH you were right as usual...playing around with stuff and trying to test too many things at once got me in trouble...hopefully the lack of water stress won't hurt them that bad

I'm gonna keep my nutes and PH like you said cause everytime I stop listening to you things get worse haha *hugs you*

This marks the end of testing for now ;-) atleast till I have a seperate batch that I can mess with...this way it's not the end of the world if an issue comes up

on the bright side the buds are startin to look pretty :hippy:

[Weedhound]

All right I have calmed down.....:) Well ASD you haven't really been there until you've done two things.....dropped the light on your plants and/or snapped the main stem in half or broke off your best cola tripping over something so you are still ahead of the game. ;) Once you've done those 2 you can then proudly call yourself an experienced grower.

I know you and Bonger are going to sit there in the corner and discuss linear curves and ph calculations etc....I can see it's like a NEED or something for you guys so I'll just gloss over that stuff and let you two work it out. But when I see you losing sight of the basics you are going to hear some stomping from MY corner...:wtf:

One of my goals here is to get you through this grow with the basics. Bonger made an EXCELLENT point about keeping records.....LOVE to say I thought of it but well.....we won't go there but obviously he knows the score and I don't but I WOULD steal his info-and generator-in a red-hot second......but trying everything under the sun here on your first grow is nutty. If you want to talk science then use this grow as a baseline....somewhere you know you can come back to when you try new things that don't quite go the way you want them to.

Bonger, your two or three or ten cents here please. I feel there are only a few things that will greatly increase your yield, given the same generalities. Lighting, C02 etc... I don't for one second believe that if your ph is 5.4 vs 5.6 or 5.2 your plants give much of a crap. I don't think you can pour enough nutes into your plants without burning that are going to make THAT much difference. Pppm at 1200 vs 1500 is not going to make your end result THAT much better. Now, if you have a 250w light and go to a 1kw....THAT is going to have a huge effect. But the stuff you are concentrating on and going crazy over I don't really see helping you or your plants at significantly at all.

Zola is starting to look good. You have nice growth on the little clone but that's all I can say about clones.....I know ZERO about them. :) :jointsmile:

[bongerstonerd00d]

Well, I am with ya on the point of diminishing returns by trying to max/tweak everything til ya drive yerself nuts. I pH to 5.8, and thats it. I dont care if its week 3, week 5, wahtever. I mean if I miss out on 4 grams a plant, I am still going to sleep the same. I was going to install C02, but decided not to. I run at about 1200 ppm during peak, and I do not push further. I know my plants, and I get excellent results, another 200 ppm is going to 1) burn plants and piss me off 2) maybe give me an extra 4-6 grams a plant.....BFD

And, I am with ya on lighting. I love lights/watts per sq ft. My aero's take up 32 sq ft. Hanging above them is 3 600 watt daisy chained Cool Breeze's/digital ballast and Grolux bulbs. Still praying for the day Hortilux gets added to the compatibility list. ANd I get some real heavy fat buds. Again, I miss out on a few grams.......BFD

ANOTHER thing I am very much a firm believer in is adequate/efficent ventilation, Most you see here got a boner to get a grow going and dont have the foggiest idea about fresh air. My belief is before they ever worry about buying seeds, MH, HPS, Pots, soil, nutes, timers, etc etc etc is to worry about proper ventilation.

To be honest I am not sure I have EVER seen a new grower ask how to set up ventilation in the Basic's or Indoor Section, hell even in here for that matter. "My seeds sprouted, now what"........

I've tried to help a few with ventilation and installing properly, but they are more concerned on feeding their 3 day old plant 9 different nutes. So, I learned to keep my mouth shut about it and just keep on keepin on.

More fresh air in than stale skunky (wonderful smell) air you remove. Thats it, gets no simpler. And DO NOT create negative air pressure (suction)......thats a no-no fer sure. ANd once you get that fresh air in there, keep it moving around. I use wall mounted 16" oscillating fans. I built these neat hanger things that allow me to raise fans as plant grows to keep them blowing between plant canopy and my lights.

I have a 10" Vortex bringing in air thru a housing I built that holds 2 Hepa FIlters, then I have an 8" Vortex suckin air thru carbon filter and exhausting into attic. My plants grow so green and lush that at times they look artificial.


When I tell you this, you are going to think I am nuts, but I am lucky to smoke a d00b a week, if that. I grow the shit to give away and to kill my time. All my friends are stoners from back in our day, and I keep everyone supplied very well. Hell I got two cases of quart jars, and there aint tomato's in em sittin in the basement cured. And when I say friends, I am talking about mid to late 40's folks. Folks who know how to keep yap shut and enjoy what they get for free types.

This is a hobby for me, and thats all it is. I would NEVER sell one gram to ANYONE. I dont need to sell it either. Gave my two boys my business 2 years ago, and I hung it up at 45. I still work/consult on as needed basis. Always loved my veggie garden and gardening in general, so I started reading up on this and it sparked an interst, so here I am.

I am probably one of the few you will ever see on this board that grew for the first time in hydro. I have never grown a plant in soil. Keep mothers in Coco.

I came here and a few other sites plus googled til the wee hours of the morning for about 6-7 months before I cracked a seed. I said to self "self if others can grow in hydro, you most certainly can grow in hydro, too"............LOL

After this crop I am going to stop til fall I think. Longer days, outside garden, lawn care, BBQ's, etc commin up. And I certainly will not run out:D :D I have a 24'x36' pavilion I built in my yard (11 acres) that we party and BBQ in. Thats the home of my Southern Yankee 6' smoker. Love to meet up with some of you guys some day and throw a big ole BBQ for all of us. I got about 2 or so weeks to harvest, so I believe this is it for now.

And 'Hound, I'll share my notes with ya, but if you take generator, you gotta take old lady, too. See, its a package deal type thing............LMAO I kid about her bitchin an all, but she is a sweetheart. She thinks I'm nuts and do goofy things, but after 23 years shes used to it.

BTW, dont worry, I'll be in daily to see whats up and offer any help that I can. I am not running off and joining the circus, just going to be doing other things with my time for now. WIll keep my mothers going and then next fall I can root clones and be right back in the action.

Well, gorgeous day here, think I am going to get Harley out and take a ride to my favorite watering hole and have a few cold ones.

Keep em green guys,
b0nger

[Weedhound]

First of all....I want to be in on the freebies. :D I'm much more of the "set it and forget it" type with ph too. And Bonger I completely agree that you MAY get an extra few grams with all the tweaking but is that really worth the whole crop? I personally always think it is until I've doe something crazy and have to go back and do damage control. Then the next cool thing or idea comes along and I'm off.....

I actually went to hydro because I failed MISERABLY in soil.....won't go there but suffice to say to say out of 80 plants I had about 20 live.....and about 6 females that made it to harvest. I went to hydro in great fear because I had heard it was harder....and it's a weed....and I couldn't even get a weed to grow in soil....but I was very desperate. Below I included a pic of my very first grow (the one where I actually followed directions.....my next grows were all "improvements" thank you ) and was absolutely BLOWN AWAY by the results. Have been hooked ever since.

There are some things I have done simply because my hydro guy told me to do them a certain way and I think my hydro guy walks on water. Ventilation was NOT one of them and I had to go around in several circles before finally taking his advice on that but I completely agree. I have several windows to the room so my plants do get fresh air constantly and with the oscillating fan they grow great stems as well. (Strangely....I did quite a few circles over the RO water thing as well....go figure :) )

Anyway, ASD update on your plants when you have a chance and let us know how Eve is doing after......well, you know. :D

[Weedhound]

First of all....I want to be in on the freebies. :D I'm much more of the "set it and forget it" type with ph too. And Bonger I completely agree that you MAY get an extra few grams with all the tweaking but is that really worth the whole crop? I personally always think it is until I've done something crazy and have to go back and do damage control. Then the next cool thing or idea comes along and I'm off.....

I actually went to hydro because I failed MISERABLY in soil.....won't go there but suffice to say to say out of 80 plants I had about 20 live.....and about 6 females that made it to harvest. I went to hydro in great fear because I had heard it was harder....and it's a weed....and I couldn't even get a weed to grow in soil....but I was very desperate. Below I included a pic of my very first grow (the one where I actually followed directions.....my next grows were all "improvements" thank you ) and was absolutely BLOWN AWAY by the results. Have been hooked ever since.

There are some things I have done simply because my hydro guy told me to do them a certain way and I think my hydro guy walks on water. Ventilation was NOT one of them and I had to go around in several circles before finally taking his advice on that but I completely agree. I have several windows to the room so my plants do get fresh air constantly and with the oscillating fan they grow great stems as well. (Strangely....I did quite a few circles over the RO water thing as well....go figure :) )

Anyway, ASD update on your plants when you have a chance and let us know how Eve is doing after......well, you know. :D

[bongerstonerd00d]

Ventilation rules........END OF MY STORY about that.

Ever get east of the Missippi, gimme a shout, you might even be there now, hell I dont know. I am in the Mid Atlantic area of the good ole U.S. of A. Love to burn one, toss back a few cold ones, and char some flesh on the smoker.

Well, I dicked with tap water, but mine was only 80 ppm (2 grains) hard I think was the number. Then I thought, I am going to get R.O. system and install when I put laundry sink in grow room. To be honest, I see no difference outside of the fact that I gotta add Cal-Mag back to it.

We sound like two lazy phucks. Dial em in, set and forget, and keep it simple. Afterall this stuff is a weed. Its damn near impossible to kill in all honesty. I mean you gotta work at it to kill it. I simply follow my previous grows to the letter and have no worries. Leaf tips aint fryin, shit aint droopin over like its on its last leg, etc.

As i said before, 4-6-10 grams difference per grow means about as much to me as the price of snake oil in Saudi Arabia. I drop in room most nghts around 6:30 or so, everything is lookin good and outside of a weekly rez change, its that simple. Sometimes I even go two weeks on a rez change. I know they preach weekly change and all that, but I am not really sold on that either.

I hang out and watch TV, surf net in the room sometimes til 11 or so, make sure all my equipment is still on cycle and thats about it.

This pH up a little, pH down a little, add another 100 ppm, blah blah blah.........It aint me. Again, how much do you actually gain? Maybe if this was a cash crop deal with me I might worry about it. Even then, I doubt I would.

My overall philosophy is as follows; Keep it simple. Give your plants hells of fresh air, keep a stable pH, and dont fry/shock the livin piss outta them with 100-200ppm extra nutes. I am convinced they remain much healthier, have zero shock factor to overcome, and all in all produce a better finished product. ANyone who wants to call me on this, feel free. But dont be offended when I say what you offer is bullshit........

My wheel is perfectly round, I am not about to try to reinvent it.

Keep em green,
b0nger

ASD......I am still pondering the pH thing. I'll get back with you on that one. I have some theories, but I am not sure whats correct at the moment. I need to do some more research before I put in my two cents.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

yer both right...After upping the nutes so much I don't really see much difference...I certainly don't notice the plants growing faster but the color green looks a bit better...I think just seeing what the chart says on ph would make the calculation easier but at this point all I really have to do is drop in a touch here and there so even that isn't the big deal...I was just wondering how the plants sucked out an extra 750ppm from the rest of res after only drinking a gallon...probably has something to do with osmotic pressure but when I find something accurate I'll pass it along

Since I only have a 400w hps for flower...I can't imagine I'm gonna get all that much yield...I'm skeptical about 2 z's cured at this point I'd really like to get more but I'm sure experience will increase that in time...

I'm still putting the room together and was planning on forced out venting with a passive intake but if you are sure that's bad I'll make sure to avoid it...I'll hold off on hooking up the vents till I hear some tips...the room is 12x12x(7ish high) I'm gonna split half for the flower and the other half will be seedling/veg I planned to just force vent out the flower room and passively intake through the veg side...for right now the basement is open with 2 fans blowing air around...I have several ideas on circulation and once I'm done getting the walls finished I'll start with the questions hehe...part of the problem is definately temp...it's cold as hell here most of the year so intaking cold air from outside leaves the room below 50 even with the light on :wtf: a bigger light will cure that issue right up I'm sure atleast during the day but the evening will still be a bit of a prob

Eve and Zola definately were pissed off about being dehydrated...most of the leaves lifted themselves back up already but (the top set of each cola were still droopy at light off) I'll check tomorow morning...

I realize so many mistakes from when I first started but improvements are steady...I'm looking into building the rest of the hydro systems...I have enough plumbing experience that the pvc shouldn't be too tough...knowing how to rate the pump pressure at each nozzle might be a bit of a pain but if I keep it symetrical?sp? it should be fine...I'm debating on how involved I want the setup to be...but I know the store bought systems are way to expensive and they all look like the root chambers are on the small side...

My camera does appear to be shot...it started working again for a while but it might just be time to toss...it's sad cause it's got kickass optics guess the last resort is calling HP

I'm almost half way through flower but I'm thinking maybe I should hold off on the koolbloom because the bud is just starting to form...hopefully the plants aren't going to just finish with like 10 baby bud sites instead of growing some more...Does stressing a plant significantly cause it to finish early? I'm hopeful it can't be that bad cause there's nothing really to finish yet ;-)

I'm off to bed for now but as always thanks for keeping me grounded...and I'll try my best not to snap any main colas or electricute myself in a res I'd just cry at this point if I ruined one completely...

[Weedhound]

Interesting point I learned from my "hydro Jesus" about lighting. He feels very strongly that lighting (talking HID here) is pretty much determined by room spacing and not the plants themselves. IOW...a 250w will cover 2 x 2 feet and produce approximately X amount of usable lumens in said space. The amount of plants in that space is not as iimportant as the amount of space per light. Example: 1 plant under a thousand watt light will (correctly grown and harvested) produce roughly the SAME AMOUNT of bud as 5 plants in the same space. The five plants will probably produce 2 oz apiece instead of all 10 on the same plant. Does how I am putting this make sense?

What i am really trying to say I think is don't sneer at your 400w light....if you are using it to cover a 4 x 4 or so space then it is all you need and the most light recommended for the amount of growing area you have. Plants can only uptake so much anyway. But your plans for a 6 x 6 flowering section....you'll need more lighting to get the best effect.

BTW I said this in a thread in the grow lounge but FYI I just bought a new book called Marijuana Botany and it is REALLY good....no hydro information but great (and easy to understand....even for me) info on the plant itself, how it grows, flowers etc....may want to look into it.

Bonger I had HORRIBLE ph problems with my well water. The ph would rise no matter what.....I don't care WHAT you did to it. The most stubborn water I have ever seen. RO solved the problem for me 100% ;)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Just checked on them again and Zola is running away with it as far as bud production...Eve (3ft tall) has probably 3-4 times the plant mass of Zola (2ft tall) but Zola has much more bud showing at this point...is it normal for smaller plants to produce the bud quicker and finish early(at the current rate it looks like the difference might be drastic...Or is it more based on the genetics of each plant as far as how much/fast bud will be produced regardless of size? The light is further away from Zola too so I'm not really sure why it's goin so fast

Besides the heat burn that Eve got from the light when I was moving them around both are back to normal...the leaves have all picked up and Eve's top cola leaves seem to point straight up at the light

I'll update with a couple pics tonight although the camera isn't as good as my hp hopefully it'll be clear enough to see some difference

I agree with what yer sayin on the lighting stuff hound...I'd say the best would be to get the same light meter reading all over the room but unless you have sunlight I doubt all the effort spent on doing so would be justified by the return...I definately want to get 4 of the same clone growing in each corner (if nothing else they should grow about the same rate) of the aero tank if I use that same one for the next flower...I'd have to assume more smaller plants would eek out one larger plant just because more bud sites right at the light but I don't think the difference would be significant...

The main problem I have at this point is that Eve is so much taller...I have the light angled at almost a 45 toward the mylar covered corner in hopes to keep as much light directed through both plants as possible but I guess it's not that big a deal cause they seem to be growing fine without much stretch

The roots are getting pretty crowded in there already so I'm hoping that doesn't ruin things toward the end (my system can't really be drilled out cause the chambers are seperate...I definately wanna give plenty of room for the roots to hang when I make my own system

[Weedhound]

Yeah the root thing is what pretty much stumped me last time.... I see some fair differences in growing in even amongst the plants in my waterfarms and could not tell you why that is ....ventilation as Bonger says? Yes, different types of plants grow differently and at different rates as well so without photo it's hard to say.....also which plants were closest to your light leaks? That may have something to do with it as well.

When i went to the hydro store the other day my guru told me that the way the "pros" do it for maximum lighting is measure the lumens or footcandles plus the temperature of the leaf surface. Anything over 80 degrees on the leaf surface itself will slow photosynthesis WAY down due to the heat produced and the stomata (sp?) will close. X-Crispi and I have been playing with this idea....you can buy little hand held temp gun for about $25... which my guru sold me by the way. I had actually gone there to talk to him about a cool tube so that I could get my light closer and he ended up selling me this instead.....about $100 cheaper but he swore to me this was a better way to do it and its $100 he lost on that so I believe him. Interestingly I found that I had guessed pretty well where my light should be (temps on leaf surface..76-78) so it might be something you want to think about. And seriously, for not having to guess where to put the light alone it was worth it to me.

[bongerstonerd00d]

Mornin guys.......

Wasnt in yesterday/last night at all. Had to get yard back in shape yesterday, get all the sticks n shit picked up that ice and wind removed this winter. Took cover off A/C and got it all the leaves and shit out from around it, etc. Gave the lawn some ferts. Fueled up and fired off the rototiller, wont be long til its time to get some onions and lettuce in the ground. Just a day doing your basic spring yard cleanup stuff. Nice to get the hell outta the house for a change.

'Hound, I figger you kept ASD in check for the day and didnt let him go to 2700 ppm for whatever reason he thought he should.....LOL:D

ASD.....about what I said about ventilation.......its a fact, jack......take it to the bank or mortgage the house on it. Seriously, with a sealed room setup you want more intake than exhaust. If you know any tinbenders that work exclusively with HVAC systems, ask them. The last thing you could possibly want is to create a suction. Think about it, when you are exhausting air from room, its doing its damdest to suck air from someplace.

I will argue this point til I wear the letters off my keyboard with anyone. Anything they say that differs from what I stated above is pure and total bullshit. I consulted with 3 different guys who only do HVAC work. All told me exact same thing.

You might be able to get away with a vent/darkroom louver type setup, but I would not think its ideal. Mine is simple, when my fans are kicked on by the thermostat the 10" brings in a nice flow of Hepa filtered from outside and the 8" is drawing the stale stuff through carbon filter and exhausting to the attic. My buddy said that for the little bit of static pressure that the carbon filter would produce that using 10 in, 8 out was perfecto. And my duct run is only 42 inches I think to attic, so the static pressure there is nil.

I have a Y with a 8" to 6" on one side of Y in the duct going to attic and thats also where my hot air from lights goes to. All my insulated flex duct hangs by chains fastened to J hooks screwed in the ceiling that have been slid thru 1" black rubber radiator type hose. That keeps the duct from kinking and I can easily move my lights up and down and adjust height of duct accordingly by taking up or down a few links. I use insulated duct to dampen noise only.

Yeah, I got a few bux in fans most would have a hard time warranting the cash for, but if I am going to pay 100 bucks for pack of seeds, spending 6-700 bucks on the proper setup for ventilation only made sense to me. I did have the fortune of being able to get a tinbender I know very well to fab me some custom duct work for some finished product, so that saved me as well.

Posted someplace on this site (and looking for it makes no sense because it is not even close to being correct) someone said you want to have your exhaust 1.5 times the size of your intake. That could not be further from the truth. All you need to do is look how a forced air furnace works. Its the exact same principle, same with mega HVAC systems.

I also have an always closed electric duct damper on exhaust that leads to attic. I spliced it into same wire that powers 8" exhaust fan. So when thermo kicks fans on, the damper gets power also and opens and allows the exhaust to flow freely. Once the fans shut down, it springs back closed. Thats before the Y and on the filter side. This would make adding C02 a breeze, which I originally intended to do, but I scratched that idea for good. Since not commercial here, I have no need to worry about increasing the yield. Keeping C02 tanks filled would be a major pain in my ass, and I really do not care for the idea of a propane "fired" C02 burner running.

One other tidbit, if you use sealed hoods/Cool Breeze/Cool Tube type lights NEVER put fan on same circut as light. Reason being if light trips breaker, you want fan to keep cooling light after it shuts down. Therefore fans on lights get own timer and seperate circut. My light fans come on about 10 minutes before lights on and run about 45 minutes after lights out. None of this was designed by a M.I.T. Engineering Grad, its all nothin more than good ole common sense.

Well, thats my thoughts on ventilation and a few tips to make a nice and neat job. Some may do differently, and I could care less. I know mine works, works efficently, and I see the results in my plants. So, there will not be any changes made here. It makes it nice when you know people who do this stuff for a living and can get the how-to's directly from them and save yourself a shitload of trial and error and "wondering" if its installed correctly.

Keep em growin,:rasta:
b0nger

[bongerstonerd00d]

Mastercool 52224-A Infrared Thermometer with Laser Order# MAS52224-A www.TheToolWarehouse.Net (http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/MAS-52224-A.html)

One of the best investments I ever made for the grow room.


b0nger

[Weedhound]

Why Bonger you DEVIL! You already had one! You sly thing you! And by the way, if you got all that done at your house in one day I have a list for you to tackle at my house.....:D

Wow it's interesting to me....perhaps because I'm not growing in a cabinet or something....that you would have an exhaust fan without some sort of intake. Like you said....the air has to come from somewhere. That seems like a basic to me. And if there is no good fresh air coming in what the heck is the exhaust pulling out? :wtf:

Hey Bonger what do you know about measuring footcandles/lumens?

[bongerstonerd00d]

Well, I am not for hire:pimp: LOL

And what I know about figuring lumens/foot candles is as follows.

My aero setups take up 32 sq. ft. (4'x8') area

I have 3-600 watt lights above them @ 92,000 lumens each = 276,000 total lumens

276,000/32=8625/lumens per sq ft.
Or 56.25/watts per sq. ft.

Based on all I have read on this subject I have hells plenty of light. Thats it in a nutshell about what I know. Oh, and I know the the further you move away the more it diminishes with distance, exponentially.

Plants happy, I'm happy, and I have no need to know how to figger footcandles or how they fit in the big picture......LOL

Ya, gotta bring it in from someplace. I am guessing most do not grow in an air tight room. In my original design C02 was in the plan, so I am airtight. As I said, nix on the C02, so its a must I bring air in so that I may exhaust it out. If I didnt and the fan was running WFO exhausting air out, I might not be able to get the damn door open (suction)........LMAO

My room is actually part of an unused bedroom sealed off, so its really a room within a room setup, if ya get my drift. I have one window in the room that is not covered, doesnt need to be, and that way I can crack window, mix cool outside air with heated house air, or I can shut off register and use straight outside air, or I can draw cool'd AC air, or heated, humidity added air (older forced air furnaces make air thats drier than a popcorn fart) directly from room. Now when it was 9 fuggin degrees for the high of the day here, there was no cracks in the window to let that shit in, but this time of year I like letting this fresh spring air in and feeding that to the room. Then at night I shut and it just gets air from room. or leave open depending on the outside temp. It really allows me to keep temps in check very easily.

Gott run,
b0nger

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Well as for the vents I have a 6" vortex running through a carbon scrubber and was planning on exhausting that with passive intakes but I can see your point that it would try to create a vacuum...I'll have to figure out how to get that setup...I'm not sure if the room is completely air tight but it's going to be close enough by the time I'm finished...for now like I said I'm just scrubbing the air and blowing it around with some fans as the door isn't even on yet

Eve keeps getting taller by the day but still seems to be at the same bud rate as before...Zola doesn't seem to be getting much taller but I can tell that the top of the plant is looking mostly buddish at this point which is nice to see...

Unfortunately with the broken camera I can't get any good pics of the setup...stupid auto focus...I'm gonna miss my 8x optical but ehh what can ya do, I'll just have to pick one up eventually just another thing to add to the ever growing list

I know that not all the light is staying bounced around at the plants cause it's not wrapped all the way floor-ceiling with mylar but it seems like most is where it should be...I'm pretty much sold on the idea of going to a several bucket system...probably something very similar to the waterfarm only homemade...if I'm gonna have the buckets drain back to the res I have to lift them above the res line which will eat away at available height so I'm still kickin things around

Even with the setup as unfinished as it is the plants seem to be quite healthy...obviously excluding the heat stress when I had the light on Eve...

Right now the nutes are all maxibloom and the bcuzz stimulator it says wait till half way for the bloom boost so lemme know what ya think on that...

until tomorrow :thumbsup:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I'm an idiot...my girl needed the dehumidifier and I just now put it back in the room so it's back in there...the lowest setting I can put is 35% which it's on now or I can just leave it on constantly but don't know if that's bad for the plants...

The first pic is Eve and the Second is Zola...neither are the top cola but I took a bunch of pictures and these were the best 2...I can make out hairs but I remember what they look like for real so gimme yer thoughts :D

[bongerstonerd00d]

ASD...if dehumidifier does not have a way to set it to maintain a specific RH level, you could do this. You can go to Wally World and for about 20 bucks you can get a repeat cycle cement pond (swimmin pool) timer. Maybe run it for 30 minutes on, 30 off and check level. If too humid, increase, too dry derease cycle time, etc.

Also, once you get your ventilation issue squared away it will lower RH. Plants sweat (transpire) I think it is the technical name, so they create humidity. Plus my aeroponic systems add to RH as well. Since I bring fresh air in, and exhaust that stale shit out of grow room completely I have zero RH problems. Mine stays a stable 35-45%. I have read 60% is perfect, but I dont want to chance fungi, so I stay a little lower. And again, if I miss out on a few grams, BFD.


b0nger

[bongerstonerd00d]

I have never named my plants, does that help?...........LMAO:rasta: :rasta:






Keep em green,
b0nger

[Weedhound]

It's hard to tell from your photos......I may be seeing a bit of overnute there but I'm not positive......what's your ppms at? I'm having a hard time telling if that is just the way the leaves are or......the tips seem curled down.....are the edges of the leaves curled downward at all? I looked at an original pic you posted.....nice fat indica leaves at the begining and now they look thin and long.....do you know what kind of strains they are? Or possibly a photo of whole plant?

[alwayssleepdeprived]

That's I think I'll keep mine low for now...k I have mine set to 35% I can raise it if necessary I haven't had any growth issues either but if 35% is super low I can raise it to 45 or 50 depending...45 might be a much more natural humdity level for our basement too...it just seems to stay around there most of the time if it's really dry it it might go down to 40 and when it's pouring out & soggy it'll rise to 60...I remember several people saying veg is higher and flower you want it lower but don't have any practical experience...I might just set it for 45 cause the humidifier seems to run less that way but I'm still checking on that

Just named em for ease of reference...1 and 2 seemed cold ;-)

ppms are at 1300 and ph is hovering almost perfect at 5.4

Here's a few more pics....a body shot...some mixed bud shots and the clone and seedling...

[Weedhound]

just from the photos.....hard to tell w/out seeing plants....the healthier seems right on the edge of over.....curled down tips but leaves pretty much look ok. On the smaller one......I do not like that canoe shape on some of them......long skinny tips.....edges seem to be curling. I'll have to look it up....have a book..... be back....perhaps it is from the setup being turned off???

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Lemme know what the book says...it's possible those leaves are the ones that got the most dry when the pump was off they did get kinda hard and stiff just a thought but I figure I'm probably high on nutes as well...

so the first sign of over nute is some downward pointing leaf tips and moderate curving and then spotting or yellowing at the ends?

the bud at the top of Zola is about the size of a nickel now for some reference most of the rest are around a dime or smaller

[Weedhound]

Ok,....under plant problems there is a thread called Zinc Tox. I will bump it up to the top. The very last thing listed is a photo of nuteburn....edges curled down, leaves feeling crispy, tips yellowed/curled downburned etc...you should look through it.....lots of signs mimic each other.....these are your plants so you will have to make the call and what you think.....without seeing the plants it's very hard for me to say.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

The leaves themselves have more of an overall curl to them like a banana but I wouldn't say the edge is more curled than the rest of the leaf...there is no edge yellowing to speak of and as for leaf texture they definately aren't that wet leathery feel like when they were little but I don't think I'd go as far as to say crispy either I'd settle on the dry somewhat stiff side

hmm...well again I've done several things so I'm not quite sure but they look/feel healthy to me a bit darker green than before maybe...adding mylar might have encouraged the plant leaves to start growing sideways (I can see this pronounced with a few near the corner)...and the heat stress with the water off definately made the stems/leaves shrink a tad, curl, and stiffin up quite a bit...since the dehydration stint I have noticed (although it's kinda slow) that the leaves especially near the top are starting to lift/flatten up more and more...I'm still monitoring pretty closely and once I change the res I'll start it at a lower ppm to see if the plants dump some out and look happier...

All in all I'm happy content with the progress Eve is looking like bud is starting and Zola still seems to be pulling away in bud production. The c99 x sweettooth#3 is probably just a longer flowering plant than the bagseed indica...if the person bought the indica to sell I'm sure they wanted a fast finishing high yielder...

Lemme check that zinc tox thread I'll post back in a bit

[alwayssleepdeprived]

After looking through that link which was pretty extensive by the way...it was nice to see some different pictures of a specific problem...hard to find those things usually they are all copied from the same source...Good find WH ;)

I figure I'm just at the upper limit of fert...I don't see any spotting or brittle issues and the curling isn't as bad as before...I'm figuring even though it's probably overfed a bit it's not severe and should be cleared up with the res change...I'm planning to add a 1/2 dose of koolbloom to this res as I'm approaching the halfway mark and next time I'll probably go just under the recommended strength...do you normally just follow the instructions for the bloom boost food?

I'm really gettin excited now that I can see what looks like bud rather than just hairs hehe can't wait...

[bongerstonerd00d]

ASD........back to those notes you are keeping next grow:D :D You will know what your RH was for the entire grow and you simply mirror it for the next crop or tweak one way or the other and see if it changes your end result. I dont know if pushin the 60% window means more bud or not. My concern was havin show pony unit sized buds gettin moldy. That would fug my whole day up. Again, I always err to the safe side of the numbers.

To ponder as well, some strains are almost immune to bud rot, while others are very suceptible. Again, notes notes notes..............

By the way, I do not comment on your plant problems for the simple reason 'Hound is doing an excellent job working with you. And I am a firm believer that more than one cook ruins the pot of soup. You start trying to do 4 different things at once from a few sources you are going to make a fuckin mess.

Well, I hear the whip crackin, lunch break must be over. If I dont get back out in yard the beatings will continue around here.......damn ole lady is a mean ass boss to work for. Pay sucks, too.......lol:D :D

Think I might even have to hit up one of the new jars this afternoon when I get chores completed. I am in the mood to get a little tuned in I do believe.:rasta: :rasta:

Keep em green,
b0nger

[Weedhound]

Bonger you made my day with that statement.:D The second (and also brilliant) statement you made in my opinion (no...not the beatings comment) but staying on the safe side of the numbers. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: That is so much easier to do than damage control. ;) I don't push humidity for the exact same reason you state Bonger....I am terrified of mold, fungus etc. That few grams I may get are simply not enough of a carrot to me to risk the crop over......way too much work to end up with nothing.

ASD the bloom stimulator I use is Hydroplex and goes with the Botanicare line. I follow it the way hydro J told me to but keep in mind I use RO water. At the end of blooming my ppms are pretty much as follows:

ppms.....1300 total
CalMag....500ppm...Replacement for calcium etc.. for RO water
Pro bloom..250ppm...reg bloom nutes
Hydroplex ...250ppm...bloom stimulator
Liquid Karma....150ppm...supplement
Sweet....150ppm....supplement

I would probably just follow whatever directions are on the KoolBloom as I have not used it so... It does seem to be a pretty popular thing so perhaps Bonger or others have an idea how best to use it.

If your leaves are sort of stiff vs dry, crispy feeling than you are probably dealing with heat stress as opposed to overnute.....especially if problems began after......the episode.....:D

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I agree Bonger...Hound is living up to her name beautifully :D I'm definately starting to see how much better it is to error on the safe side especially given all the new things I'm messin with

Thanks again for all the help Hound I wouldn't have made it this far without ya :thumbsup: I'm gonna have to lookup those supplements and compare them to what I'm using so I know which compares to which

The res change is goin down tomorrow...I believe it will be 15 days since my last change so it's definately time...probably a bit late actually but I'll just keep the notes on plant reaction...I'm gonna go with a total of 1300ppm I'll put in the recommended dose for koolbloom & bcuzz stimulator and adjust the rest with maxibloom I'm also planning to put the airstones in the res and hookup the airpump etc

The door is the only thing left to put on and then I can work in the room itself *pats his own back* actually framing out stuff was a pain but it was a good place to learn since it doesn't have to look all pretty

I'm soon to tackle the job of ventilation cause the room will be pretty much air tight once the door is hung

Hope everyone is enjoyin the weekend...ttyl

[tomasinho]

Hey ASD - how are ya? Hey just wanted to let you know - on the GH site its says that you are supposed to add the kool bloom in the last 2 or 3 weeks of flowering. Kool Bloom is some really strong stuff - I wouldnt want you to hurt the girls. The liquid is 0-10-10 and the dry stuff is way potent. Which one do you have? I am using the Kool Bloom with Humbolts Gravity Hardener - The kool bloom is nice - the plants drink that shit up. The gravity stuff I just put on today - I will let you know how it works. Peace out homie. Growing weed is the shiite.

[Weedhound]

Tom I have that gravity and have been afraid to use it.....I've heard some very scary stories about it but at the same time that if done right it's the cat's meow and can really make your yield kick ass! I would be very interested to see how that works out for you.....maybe I'll get the guts to try it this grow. I'm trying the "don't touch" approach this time so hopefully without me poking at them so often they'll do well with it; especially with the "purebloods" in the set-up. (Bonger!)

Thanks for the kind words you guys; I really do appreciate the feedback. Makes me feel...:cool:

[tomasinho]

Yeah I have heard some scary stuff too - we will see what happens. I have been spending a lot more time in the grow room after I put the gravity in. I want to make sure nothing wierd happens so I have a bottle of flushing solution standing by. I have only been running it for 1 day now - I will let you guys know what happens. I actually started running it about a week later than it recommends but they should be ok. It might be an illusion but the buds do seem to be filling out a bit more...

[alwayssleepdeprived]

interesting Tomas I got the dry stuff...it's like 2-45-28 so like .5-15-10...I'm thinking about doing a very small amount maybe cause I'm not adding any other supplements this grow...so I was wonderin if I could get away with adding maybe 1/2 a teaspoon for the 10 gallon res...it says 1/4 tea per gallon so that would be like 1/5 strength...today is day 25 flowering and I did notice the plants getting on this lift with the light and by the end of the day they seem to want to drop back down before the light goes off...I'm wondering if that's cause of my high ppm...

you know you got yer setup goin on WH so I'll keep up with the advice of experience ;)

I'll let you guys know how the air pump and res change go a bit later today...I just read the label and it says to start this kind at the halfway mark so I'll check back to see the thoughts on possibly adding a touch of the koolbloom or just holding off all together before I do (are there multiple kinds of koolbloom?)

[bongerstonerd00d]

'Hound is a chicka ???.....Hell, learn summin every day. Not that it matters, but I didnt know that. Sorry if I have addressed you as a d00d, 'Hound.

Gotta love them bluebloods:thumbsup: :thumbsup: I am a firm believer in starting with good genetics. I even believe if FIRST grow you should start with quality. Learn to grow quality from the get go. I am sure most disagree, but such is life. Pissin with bagseed to grow herm's makes little or no sense to me. I know not every plant herm's, but bagseed is a crap shoot in my opinion, for what its worth.

I am looking at starting flush Wednesday and chop Saturday. According to my bible (notes) that will be perfect. Trichs right about where they need to be. Time then to clean everything up and shut things down til fall. Of course I'll keep my mom's going for next season. I need to fix them up with a simple drip system instead of hand watering which wont take much. I keep them in Coco.

If I didnt grow hydro, I swear I'd grow in Coco before I EVER fugged with dirt. Stuff is amazing and plants grow like crazy in it. Cant overwater it, one brick makes a shitload, blah blah blah. It has all kinds of advantages. I think perfect medium for a newbie to use. Most newb's either drown or evaporate plants, tuff to do in Coco.


I think next winter I am going to do a 3'x3' ScroG with a 400 watter in Coco. Will find some exotic connsieur (I know I dint spel that write) strain that is ScroGable (new word) for it. Might get me a pack of Vortex from T.G.A. and grow them out in 'dro til I get me a mom. I read it works great in ScroG setup, and its a great smoke. Plus I really like their genetics. I grow Jilly Bean and thats a beautiful plant and a whip your ass smoke. I have a perfect mother with the qualities of a runway model of her.

I burnt about 1/4 of a d00b yesterday of absolutely perfectly cured Jilly Bean (around 10 weeks) and it destroyed my azz. Was too damn high to even put the tractor back in the shed til last night..........LMAO

I need to get a pack of NL for next year, too. Read nothing but good about, but never smoked it. I gotta see whats its all about. Like to grow NYCD, but I am not sure I need anything that potent.........LOL I read it makes you throw rocks at your OWN house......:D :D

Love my Whites (Rhino, Widow) as well. Problem is, I want to grow so many strains but dont have the room. And I have to keep a mother of anything I grow. Growing from seed sucks wind real bad. I hate it, but gotta do to get new strains in the stable, I know................




ASD, I never was sold on that weekly change of rez. Now I think if you got small rez it is probably necessary, but only then. Of course the nute companies suggest weekly change, but they love you pouring their product down the drain, too. I change mine every other Sunday, and my plants seem as happy as a pig in chit. I have done weekly and bi-weekly, see no difference.

When I put laundry sink in grow room I put a straight Y (different than standard Y) right before trap. glued a piece of pipe just long enough to hold end cap to it, fastened end cap with band clamp, not glue in case I ever need to take off for whatever reason. Drilled hole in end cap the size of hose, 5/8's I think, cut hose just long enough to reach valve on rez furtherest away, and fed hose through end cap. Then put new plastic ends back on it. Holds the hose in there so when I need to drain rez's I screw hose to valve, open, and run each one right in the drain. Makes life so simple, and I dont have water slopped all over the place anymore messin with buckets. Another handy tip for y'all.

Hope everyone had a great weekend.

Keep 'em green,
b0nger

[tomasinho]

Bonger - you grow the jillybean huh? I am jealous. I just started some dannyboy seeds that I won on a breedbay auction. I hate growing from seeds too - such a pain in the ass. I am looking for Mrs. Right - hopefully she will give me an assload of dannyboy cuts throughout the next year. Subcool and TGA is the bomb! I want to cross the dannyboy with this banana kush cut that I found - we will see what happens.

ASD - You know what, I am not a Kool Bloom expert but yes there are two different kinds of Kool Bloom! The dry version seems a lot different than the liquid version also. Maybe you should use it now? I dont know. Im sure a little probably wouldnt hurt anyway. Just watch what happens to the plants and let us know ok?

[bongerstonerd00d]

Tom, keep me posted on Danny. I have done some research (not nearly enough I know) but in order to cross a plant dont you have to keep crossing and growing them out in order to get a stabilized strain or am I full of condensed monkey shit with this idea ? I swear I read that the reason it takes so long to get good genetics is because it takes years of crossing and recrossing of the two plants.

If I crossed Rhino and Widow I'd have a Widowed Rhino........<groan> That was sad for a joke.......

I'll do some more reading on the breeding thing one of these days. For now I am happy with clones from my moms. Seed grows <shudder>..........

By the way, glad ya are posting here, Tom. This is an excellent thread IMO. We just have to keep ASD from uppin his PPM's to 3500, but 'Hound keeps him in check on that......:D :D

Anyways, keepin it green,
b0nger

[tomasinho]

Bonger - I think you are talking about strain stabilization - which would take a long ass time and I dont have the room. I was basically just thinking about keeping the dannyboy males that I have and pollinating the banana kush to see if I could get some cherry kush or some banana taco or maybe even a cherry banana type cross. Its not really breeding for stability or an IBL, its just a cross to see what happens. When subcool breeds his plants I think he just selects good a good mother and a nice looking father but doesnt really do alot of stabilization work - that would take forever - and he comes out with new seeds every year or so. I agree - this is a good thread. It seems like we are all learning from each other which is cool - we gotta help each other grow that danky dank. ASD is doing good huh?

[Weedhound]

My hydro J just frowns at me for growing from seed...."youre STILL growing from seeds? EVERY time???" But quite honestly I like it.....when those first little puppies pop their skins I always feel so proud. :D Plus, as bonger mentioned with cloning.....have to keep Mom around, a seperate set-up for clones etc... But my real reason is simply that I do not want to be tied down to one type of the green.....there are simply too many choices out there for me not to want to partake in as many as possible. :thumbsup: All the different kinds.....all the different highs. Could be a life-long project (hopefully :D :stoned: )

Bonger, everyone says that about me.....maybe it's my sailor mouth, lol.

I have some White widow seeds I am wanting to try next grow. Somebody mentioned to me that WW seems rather sensitive to nutes....he ended up using about 20% less nutes than usual. How did yours grow when you grew them?

Latewood has a formula listed under indoor growing about GH nutes and the lucas formula. I studied it at some point but found it rather complicated for my taste. It is supposed to be a very popular method however and from my understanding the rez changes are very minimal throughout the grow....just topping off rez. So that is definitely an accepted theory; fewer rez changes. I actually change mine more often..... I really like the pump it seems to give my plants and probably do rez changes twice a week. For me it's actually easier to do everything from the central controller than to check each individual bucket. I'm quite sure I am wasting nutes but it's a hell of a lot easier on my back. ;)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Things seem to be going well...I got the res changed today it's sitting at just under 1300 total...160 starting...50 of bcuzz...130 koolbloom...rest maxibloom

my water was clean and no smell or cloudiness this change was like 15 days so I'm keepin notes...how does the coco break up? could I use that as the medium in the net pots of aero instead of hydroton? I'm not happy with how wet the hydroton got before the roots grew to hang in the air but the airstones/airpump might help that

I can't deny that sense of accomplishment when I see a little seed break out...I didn't see anymore seeds pop unfortunately so I figured after a week I'd crack them with a plier gently as possible and see if they grow...if not they're gettin tossed...still have a few more I can try so it'll be ongoin...I'd like to use rockwool if possible instead of the organic plugs just to keep the res cleaner and avoid somethin that could clog the pump...

I think I'm gonna need several little setups...germination/seedling(possibly 2 seed&clones)/veg/flower

I'd have to say after checkin the pics I'm pretty psyched found a fan leaf with 11...I can't wait to see them tomorrow morning after the res change takes hold...first 2 are Zola (Cola & Bud shot) last 2 are Eve (Cola & Bud shot) Lemme know how they look

[tomasinho]

look a them girlie girls - thas what Im talkin about home slice. Them the tasty little hosnatches right there, what?

[bongerstonerd00d]

ASD.....amazing what happens when you keep the PPM's under 7500, huh..................LMAOOOOOOOOO:D :D

I love rockwool in hydroton. That trips mah trigger. Read how I told whoever it is in Emergency Room Help Needed or whatever that thread is called in this section on how to make a handy dandy light proof cover for the top of ya pots.

I keep my moms in Coco, and I am going to put on drip system that runs to drain, not drains back to rez. Dont know if its going to work very well (not sure how much water I am going to use or how often I'll have to add), but I am going to try that way. I guess if you used a filter bag you could drain to rez. I wonder if Coco fibers in the rez promote or grow any kinds of funky shit after a while. GUess I'll just need to add some Hydrogaurd like I do to my aero rez's if I drain to rez. I need to think this over for a few days.

I am looking to put my moms on autopilot or close to it for the summer. So the less hassles I have, the better.

'Hound, I iz with ya on new stuff all the time. And if thats to yer liking, have at it. Late summer I'll be crackin some new stuff to have around for next fall/winter enjoyment (getting headache just thinking about it). Really wanna do that Vortex in ScroG setup. For some reason that excites me.

Was looking at some post on seeds. There is a strain called Thunderfuck (love that name) and one called Bubba Kush, 240.00 and 300.00 respectively. I wonder if they are all that GOOD ? Dr Greenthumb is seedbank if ya wanna check out.

Growin it green (my lawn),
b0nger

[alwayssleepdeprived]

thanks tomas :stoned: now all I gotta do is make them bigger

ppm @ 1350 and ph is at 5.4 it climbed all the way to 6 in 24 hours so I'll have to check it at lights out to make sure it's stayin down

I finished playin with the airstones/pump...it's installed now just under the intake of the pump...one airstone on each side...it's definately got little bubbles forming all over the place so the roots better be happy haha should help with the issue of younger plants too but I got a while before I can test that...

I'm not positive but I think the ph of the tank climbed because of the air...if anyone else has experienced this lemme know

lemme know how much a mess the coco makes if ya do a recirculating hydro with it I'm thinking the dehumidier is helping cause I can see more of hairs on the leaves at the colas

Those are some expensive seeds...for now I'm just happy to be in motion with everything...once ya get it started the rest seems to come so easily...I'll probably just use the seeds I got till I run out & I'll most likely keep 1 mother from each strain maybe 2 if characteristics warrant it

I definately wanna get some cool colored strains eventually...definately a few that are more sativa than what I have now white elephant looked like a cool strain ooooh all those crystals :D

be back later I still have tons to get done today

[Weedhound]

SPEAKING OF WHICH........SCROG set up Bonger...if you need photo I will start new thread. Can you think of a way to do scrog on my waterfarm set-up? My main issue is trying to do something that will still let me be able to lift pots out if necessary but do not know if that is possible?

ASD your plants look GREAT! We will all be there to partake of the harvest....probably leaving you with nothing...lol. No kidding though they really do look excellent. Nice color and nice bud production. :thumbsup:

Bonger right now the selection of seeds I have inclues W widow, Ice, Crystal Limit, Master Kush-X, some Haze (which I am going to try to grow outside this year due to long flowering time) Bubblegum, and possibly some Blueberry-X . :thumbsup: Also a buttload of my "Blue russian" bagseed (named by the dealer so god knows but the weed really kicks ass) and some seeds from bagseed that I'm positive is a version of CatPiss. Smells like catpiss when growing, just sitting there, after you smoke it, no matter what.....catpiss everywhere. Makes you wonder what the Thunderfuck smells like....? :) There were also a couple free seeds that came with the original seed order....called Sweet Dreams or something. It's really hard not to just throw them all in some soil so I can have them all at once but the reality of that is......I will kill them in soil. AGGGGGG!

[Weedhound]

ASD your rising ph is perfectly normal at this point....it is due to the higher nutrient needs of your flowering plants. There is no way to stop the process that I know of and I've looked cause adjusting those waterfarms' ph gets old especially when the plants get to largeness and flowering All you can do is keep adjusting it back and it will continue to rise on you so heads up. From here on out (as if you weren't before) check your ph often often....and keep your ph down close by. ;)

[bongerstonerd00d]

Well, my ScroG will be not til late fall at earliest. I need to germ, veg, grow out and get a mom going from this pack of Vortex. Maybe when times comes I'll post a pic or so, I may not either as I never have for obvious reasons.

Anyways, no, I have no idea how you could remove pots once you have your babes trained in the screen. I am going to do the Vortex ScroG in Coco with drip, not aero for the very reason once you weave them in the screen, you cant move.

I am going to use them plastic coated twistie thingers they hold bread closed with to hold plants to screen. Paper falls off the cheap ones when it gets damp and I am betting they rust, too. I bought 7000 of them (thats roll size, and I aint kiddin) for 47 bucks or something.

Those Waterfarm thing-mah-bobs are self contained, not a seperate rez????
I dont like that idea much if so........but, such is life.

Dont forget, 'Hound. I am a ScroG virgin, so this first one and anything may happen.........LMAO But I am sure I will dial it in pretty easily.

b0nger

[Weedhound]

No one else has figured it out either Bonger so .....I just keep hoping cause it would be great to do if I could figure out how. May start a new thread somewhere with some photos and ask for suggestions. :)

The waterfarms are all seperate but hooked together in a line which leads to central rez and draw the nutes etc from main bucket but since it pretty much works on gravity there isn't any recirculation between buckets unless you create something. My hydro J warned me that I would have to keep tabs on them seperately although the ad from General hydroponics insisted I could "do it all" from the central rez.

Guess who turned out to be right?

[alwayssleepdeprived]

The scrog sounds interesting...I'm sure I'll end up stuck in that web of difficulty eventually but for now I'm just stickin with the simple things...

WH do ya think the scrog setup would let the plant grow more bud with less roots? if so it might help with that clogging issue...I bet you could set up a screen attached a certain height above each bucket...like if you make a square frame and staple the screen or chicken fencing and fasten that to the top of the waterfarm bucket this way if you need to take the top off the screen will move with the plant...

Actually on a similar topic I noticed how bendy the c99 is so I decided to use a coat hanger with a weight on the end to bend down the main cola into the dead space toward the corner...it seemed to be successful although I was so nervous the whole time of just snapping the cola right off...I did it at about 3 and by 6 or so the top was already starting to bend back to the light in it's new unoccupied space...it looks like all those little buds a few leaf sets down from each top are getting much more light so I'm hoping that'll increase the yield...it also allowed me to get the light a bit closer to the shorter plant

The short plant has very stiff stems but the c99 can almost be tied into a knot

I do have a quick question if anyone has used airstones in the res before I can hear little pockets of air continuously now...like if you just turned the pump on and the air was escaping but now it's like a constant slow crackle almost of air passing through the nozzles...that should definately keep the O2 level in the root chamber high enough but I was curious about possible pump damage...I'm leaning toward no cause it's probably 90 to 95 percent water with just a few air bubbles...I'd assume the problem with running the pump completely dry is getting hot and no water to lube...lemme know if it's a definate problem and I'll move the airstones further away from the pump intake

I'll be back a bit later time to watch 24 ;)

[Weedhound]

Is this you standard air pump.....like fish tank air pump?

[alwayssleepdeprived]

yes WH it's a tetra 10-30gallon style fish tank really cheap and quiet...I'm not sure how long the air stays in the water or whatever so I figured I'd just get it right near the water pumps intake

Cute pups by the way :)

Lemme take a better look into scrogging and I'll let ya know if I come up with any ideas

[Weedhound]

Oh that's plenty....and if it's making noises don't worry about it....just airflow. I've never had one overheat on me either and have had several here and there so no probs.

As far as scrogging I'm leaning toward setting the system up to completely recirculate as some others here have done which would sove the problem of having to take each bucket out and check things individually......the main problem with scrog to me. The other thought is the same issue I had last time however.....how much room do I need for roots for scrog? I had great makings in my last grow but ran out of root room. :(

[tomasinho]

Have you thought about making individual scrog screens? You could make one per pot or bucket that would go where the bucket goes. You could attach the frame directly to the pot or bucket - I have seen it done before by a few growers on overgrow.com. But why do scrog when you can supercrop?! Eh - Im just not a big fan of scrog b/c why would you want to make the crop more of a pain in the ass to deal with? Seriously - can you imagine twist tying the plants down everyday? What about the plants way under the screen (if you do one big screen) the middle plants you are really gonna have to reach for?

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I'd say it depends on situation...supercropping (from what I've seen) definately gives a high yield but you have to wait for the new growth everytime you cut them...this is fine if you have a green sea operation where ya can be prepping the next crop of super bushes but if you wait till harvest to drop in new 1 cola'd trees yer gonna have a long time between chops

A screen method seems just training...similar to hand moving the branches to open areas so you get more of the bud sites bathed in light and higher yield without the delays of cutting...I'd say the screen is just an effective way to get light to the majority of the plant's buds...it's not all that much different from tyin down branches to direct growth...

As for your root issue...I think the scrog would help slim the roots down a bit but probably not too much the more I think about it...I'd still be worried you'd max out your chamber anyway cause the more mass the plant produces like the main stem sideways and all the branch shoots going up will make the plant root for drinking/feeding...

Someone with experience can hopefully chime in with the compared root structures of both...it's possible the extra roots that grow when you crop/prune/top are just wasted and don't really work to draw up solution anymore(although it seems unlikely mother nature would stand for such an event) if that were the case though the plants would get much bigger before root issues

I'm gonna do some more reading on this tomorrow I can't think anymore at the moment heh need sleep

[Weedhound]

Actually I bought everything except the very last part ASD.....I think it is the other way. I think the plant makes roots for the leaves. If you tear too many leaves off (supercropping) the plant has to make a bunch of new leaves....but has to make new roots for them first. And while those roots will still uptake nutes (maybe..just guessing here) unless overcrowded there isn't anywhere for those nutes to go.....like sending energy to an amputated limb. I think that's what put so much time on my last grow. Roots WERE wasted...but it was the original roots for the leaves that were no longer there. Make sense or am I just blowing smoke? God this pontificating is makes my head hurt. :jointsmile:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I agree WH I wasn't sold on the last part cause I dunno just doesn't sound right...and over 1000's of generations I don't see why a plant wouldn't be able to just suck up food/water through any root and port it where it's gotta go

on the other hand I do think supercropping as opposed to scrogging would lead to atleast slightly more roots vs plantsize because the plant doesn't know immediately that it's leaves are gone and I doubt root growth would stop instantly...although now that I'm thinking of that, if roots grow at a specific time maybe it would be best to crop after the root growth time period has just ended for the day?

Just really grasping at straws here so don't hold me to anything ;-)

Have you ever thought of changing the buckets yer using for yer farm? you could probably reuse everything else tubing/pumps etc just connect the existing lines to the bigger buckets

Eve is doin well after the tie down the cola has already bent itself back to the light and started growing again...I can see that the little bud sites did end up with much more lighting and I'm hopin that means more bud

One funny thing I've noticed with Zola is that her leaves definately lift towards the light in the morning and throughout the day but seem to start to fall back down an hour or 2 before the light goes off...does this mean that she might prefer less hours in the light cycle or is it normal to start relaxing before bedtime?

[bongerstonerd00d]

Eazy, 'Hound. Cant have ya blowin a gasket.....lol :D :D

ASD....I notice you are not experiencing a daily disaster lately. See how easy this really is? 'Hound got you dialed in and rockin now.

Tom, ScroG is about getting nice buds from every available budsite on the plant, I think. As I said, this is new to me for now. I, for some reason want to do one. Why? I dont know.

Supercropping is of little or no interest to me. I am more than happy with the yields I achieve from my aero's. Isnt supercropping a technique used by commercial growers where they reveg and then reflower plant ?

I like messing with my plants. So next winter I can work on getting 4 topped and very well trained plants established to put under the screen. Tying them down and weaving them in the screen will not be a chore in my eyes. I want to see a 2.5'x2.5' screen FULL of bud, one for each hole in screen. Ever see SeedlessOnes ScroG's ? That d00d is impressive to say the least. And, he gets one helluva yield out of a fairly small screen.

400 watter over a 2.5'x2.5' (64 watts sq/ft) should get me a decent yield even tho I will probably have plenty of fug ups since this is my first attempt. And, if it only yields a half ounce, thats ok, too. My regular grows will be going, and I have that setup almost to the point of autopilot.

Tom, I read on your thread you are a very busy person, and I agree this setup is probably not for you. Hell, I am old and mostly retired........lol But I have plenty of time to tinker with whatever trips my trigger. Indoor growing and building/designing alll kinds of neat things to make my grow area as tricked out as possible does exactly that.

I am a firm believer that if you have those handyman/fixer upper skills you can do some really kewl things in this hobby. I just wish it were legal for christs sakes. I feel if Tequilia is legal, pot should be legal........END OF THAT STORY!!!!

Drunks kill people, stoned peple only miss their exit!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry I blundered 8 miles off the topic for whatever reason I did. Wife is gone til late tonight and I smoked 1/4 d00b after my eggs this morning and I am still wasted........LOL:D :D <looks at d00b layin in ashtray>




Lovin it green,
b0nger

[Weedhound]

Dont want to waste that nice little tidbit laying there Bonger........:stoned: ;) I will look in my book and see if I can find the answer to the root question. I'm very sure that supercropping will cause more root growth as opposed to scrog which I do agree with ASD on....I consider it a version of tying the branches down to expose them to light which is the biggest thing to me. More light.....more bud. And I don't think doing that causes as much root growth as the plant having to create new branches etc...

And bonger while ASD not having a daily disaster IS a good thing.....it's not nearly as much fun. :D

[alwayssleepdeprived]

The girls are lovin life at the moment and I couldn't agree more on the credit due hound...the canoe lookin shape of the leaves has started to flatten out and I'm starting to notice those white specs creeping out on a few more leaf sets *claps* I must admit I've been toying with the idea of 10k ppm baths for the girls, just a few minute dip shouldn't hurt em right? :jointsmile: Don't worry once I get a few different systems going I'll be sure to have a catastrophy per week for ya'll

Only thing to mention is the slow rise of ppm to 1380 or so...next nutes I add will be a bit low to help bring it down a little more

Bonger I definately want info on the scrog pros/cons/yield when you eventually get it running just thinking about it gets me all tingly...Do you have a certain strain in mind? I was thinkin if ya picked a nice up high sativa you could counteract the low yield Having a 400watter dedicated to one plant would be sick...as it is my 2 plants are getting beastly...I'm sure more training would help

I must say I'm astounded by the speed at which Eve bent herself toward the light...the main stalk was at a 90 and she's pointing directly at the light again in less than 2 days...budsites have appeared everywhere on her even some baby ones only on the 2nd leaf set

Be back later...girl is outta town and if I don't keep up on the chores it will be the whip for me

[bongerstonerd00d]

ASD.....I am going to do Vortex, TGA strain. I currently grow their Jilly Bean and its a great smoke and a beautiful plant to grow as well. I will be using 4 well trained, topped plants under a 2.5x2.5 screen with a 400 watter on em.


Sorry.............but I need more time to recover from seein SS pulls 11 pounds off one 1000 watt HPS........



back later,
b0nger

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Some questions for everyone

Bonger I remember you mentioning the use of rockwool...I've read that you end up having watch the ph with these and presoak for 24 hours is that really a concern? I read about oasis cubes being about the same only less of a ph headache and better moisture % The seed start tray I have has a bottom tray holding the water and a little site tray with holes in the bottom of each...I've filled the tray so water comes up through the sites about 1/4 of the way Lemme know if it should be more/less

I'm basically looking at creating 1 item to grow matured seedlings and clones...I'll either be making a bubblercloner or aerocloner pretty much with the idea you detailed before...if there is no real speed difference I might just do the bubble cloner cause it's just for the tiny guys...ideally clones would go directly into this unit and seeds started in the starter tray would be moved once big enough...I'd like to just move the medium from the tray and just squeeze the rw or oasis cube through kinda so it sticks in place there...if a site isn't being used I could just use another cube or find a plug of some sort

from there I'll move them to the aero9 for veg/flower stage...eventually I'll make a different system for flower

I just checked the seeds I started before and unfortunately got a very poor germination rate only 10 of like 30 seeds popped and so far only one has grown to be a viable seedling...coulda been the seeds but I'll run through my current germ/seedling method for critiquing

1. I have a 16oz cup filled with 2 day old tap water ( I found that letting it sit for atleast 2 days stopped the climbs of ph that I was experiencing before I guess 1 day wasn't quite enough for some reason ) I added a very small amount of maxigrow...the tap water started at 160 and I raised it to about 200 so lemme know what range I should be in...ph was right at 7 The new batch of 20 seeds have been in this cup since about 3pm a few I just checked and 8 have already sank

2. Should I remove the seed and plant it in the medium (starter tray) after it sinks, cracks open, or has a little root pointing out of it(if it should have a root how long like 1/8"-1/4"-1/2"?

3. Should I remove it from the cup and put it in a moist paper towel till the root develops more or just right to the medium in the tray?

4. I was figuring the nute mix in the tray should be @ 6.5ph and 200-250ppm?

5. Is there a recommended additive that I should be using other than just a touch of the grow food? I've heard of superthrive but don't have any experience on benefit

I figure since WH loves seeds this should be right up her alley :thumbsup:

PS I can't wait till I have have a nice mom each of a few different strains......damn 11lbs off 1000w is unreal

[Weedhound]

Here is my method for starting seeds and may I say I have had excellent results with it. About a 90-95% germ rate. I will go slow so you can get it. ;)

1. Put seed in rapid rooter hole already in middle and pre-made for me by manufacturer

2. Pour water on seed and rapid rooter

3. Wait. Keep rapid rooter moist but not wet.

4. Wait more.

5. Plant when sprouted.

Works every time......starting with good seeds of course. Absolutely anything else I would screw up so it had BETTER work. After my experience with these PICKY blueblood seeds I would probably start the next batch (if purebreds) pretty low.....say 150 w/ ro water.....1/2 being CalMag.

I've posted two pics of my plants so far.....germed on 3/5 and placed in hydro on 3/10. The close up one I took to give you an idea of nitrogen overfert. I have a pretty shitty camera but if you sort of squint, look close and tip your computer at about 45 degree angle you might be able to see what I am talking about. The color on the edges of the newer leaves is a pretty dark green and the tips are curled down. This plant (it's a Crystal Limit) is on exactly the same ppms and ph as everyone else but for some reason has decided it couldn't handle the heat in the kitchen so I have dropped it back 100ppm. Ph has remained stable so..... PHHHHHHHH to it.
Seems a little better today and the brand new growth is a better color (cross fingers.)

The other photo is the 8 I have going total. The four in the back are C/L...far back left is the unhappy one and the one directly in front of it, while happy, is a funky curling twisty plant right down to the stem. I'm told that's a mutation thing.....wimps. :p The three in the front are Master Kush Feminized and I can't remember if you can see the one in the closest right corner....one of my russians.:)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I'm not sure if I'll be able to remember the entire germination method...I'll just keep checking back to read up after each step hehe

Even that unhappy one doesn't look all that bad looks like yer gonna have another set of bushes before long ;-)

I don't think I did anything to mess with the seeds but it's always good to hear other ideas...I checked again and already 15 of the 20 have sunk so I'm off to a much better start atleast

[tomasinho]

Well bOnger it seems as though you have you heart set - I wont get in the way of a man and his ladies! Where is it you saw 11 pounds off of one light?!!! How? I want to see this too. If its real, maybe I'll do a scrog too. Fuck it lets all do scrog. Yeah - I am busy right now. I am going to school for biology - I also work at an AIDS clinic and have a wife and two kids. Oh - and I also have this little hobby. I am taking a class right now called plant molecular genetics and biotech. - we are making genetically engineered weeds. I am thinking about approaching my professor about working in his lab but we will see. Also - the school I go to (university of california - san diego) has a department that studies medical cannabis (called CMCR - you can find it on the web) - I just sent them an e-mail asking to help out with the research - I guess we will see how that goes to.
Fuck. This has nothing to do with droopy leaves. Sorry.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

how dare you comment off topic Tomas :p I hope they let you help with research that would be the shiznitiest haha

I just realized I must have gone to 12/12 long before the ladies were mature...they were at 5 and 7 leaves per fan and now both are showing a max of 11...that probably means the potency and yield will be much lower than it should I'm guessing...Do all plants max out at their genetic leaf amount or do they just keep getting more slowly as they get older?

All of the seeds have sunk and 8 of the 20 have popped open already...well 21 total now...I found a random seed outside walmart haha I just opened the door and there it was on the white line so I took it as a sign and added it to the mix hopefully they'll all open soon (I decided to put the orphan seed in a shot glass just in case it had something transmittable)

The first couple times I chose seeds that looked ok and saved all the best ones for a later attempt...of the 3 strains I have 4 if ya count the orphan...this is the first time I'm using the best looking ones

Be back a bit later time for work

[bongerstonerd00d]

LOL.....Tom, see the "latewood, xcrispi, weedhound" thread in this section. There you will see the 11 pounds from one 1000 watt light post. Anyways, the only down side I see to growing this ScroG setup in the fall is I am going to need to start from seed....Meaning germ all 10, veg, clone, grow, sex, get mother, clone, train .......blah blah blah..you know the drill. The reward will be seeing a nice fat bud in every available hole in the screen.

You are a busy man, Tom. Sounds like you are exploring some great areas though. Best of luck with all your endeavours.


ASD.....About rockwool...I LOVE IT. I read horror stories here often about the misadventures folks have with it, but not I. If I didnt grow in RW and Hydroton, I'd grow in Coco. Its to each their own and what they are comfy with. As I have said previously, I keep moms in Coco.

ASD...and you asked about soaking. Yes, I soak in Rockwool Soak from bghydro. If you do not have that you can soak in 5.5 pH'd water for 24 hours. Before you use, squeeze most of water out of em, you want em moist, not dripping wet. And KEEP the PHUCKING light from beating on the top of the RW. Buy them handy plastic cover thing mah jigs, make your own, do whatever you gotta do to keep light from getting to RW. I use circles of panda plastic, cut a + in the center of each circle. I can drop the net pot right thru the +. Plastic goes back in place and the only thing sticking thru is plant. Works slicker than snot on a glass door handle. White side up of course.

80 here Tuesday, 25 today, fuckin weather by Cybil. Shit dont know wether to bloom or die.......

b0nger

[tomasinho]

Sounds like michigan weather. What part of the world do live in bonger? I thought I read SC or NC somewhere but I cant remember. What about you weedhound and ASD? Weedhound asked me where I lived - Sun Diego. I was wondering about those rockwool covers though - do the covers block the plant from getting fresh oxygen? I know that in ebb and flow that the oxygen is supposed to be pushed out of the top of the cube when the water level rises and then oxygen is pulled into the cube when the water level drops. Do you think that rockwool covers would negatively affect this? Its prob. different if you are bubbling in the oxygen from the bottom though. But where does the stale air go if it it covered by plastic?

[Weedhound]

All you guys drooling over that 11lb comment need to go back and reread Scarlet's thread. There she clarifies (for the safety of Bonger's heart) that what she got was 11b of WET untrimmed marijuana, stems included.....so all you boys just calm right down!!

I also agree that Tom went off thread so we need to go over there and smoke all that lovely stuff he is growing. I'm in Nor Cal myself...about 2 hrs east of Lake Tahoe so i'll probably get there first; too bad for the rest of you.

ASD each plant has it's own limit for leaf blades if I remember correctly. And I find it amazing that you jumped the gun on the 12/12 as you have been so slow and cautious as a rule. :D It should not affect the potency of your grow but will affect the final yield. Potency is determined by the genetics of the plant.

The Walmart seed.....sounds like a setup to me. The cops were probably watching you the whole time and will be there soon to get the goods. Speaking of.....you don't get all your seeds at WalMart do you? Can't guarantee the potency of the discount store sidewalk seeds. :stoned:

[bongerstonerd00d]

Mid Atlantic most of the time, Tom. My covers are not like a Tupperware seal or anything.....lol They are just laying on top of the netpot/hydroton. About "stale air", I have none. I can make my growroom a wind tunnel if I want. I got hells of fresh air commin in, and the old is scrubbed and exhausted.

Those super fancy special plastic doo hickes they sell I have no idea about. I know bghydro carries them, but since I had some panda plastic handy, I used an empty netpot for size, cut out circles, cut + in center, and voila.

I am not cheap or nothing like that, but if I can fab something to achieve exact same result as something that would run 20 bucks, hell, I make it. Fron picture on a website I could not tell how big hole was in center either. So, I figured as my stalk increased in girth (eazy ladies), it would just push the plastic back, and it does, perfectly.

I've seen pics of all kinds of different shit used. This was just easiest and what I had materials to do at the time.


b0nger

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I'm debating on what sorta system to make now that the room is completed (well close enough)

I'm planning another aero system...a multibucket...maybe a horizontal pvc tube kind or simply a rubbermaid tub setup...although the rubbermaid would probably hold 2 plants max and even then they'd be pretty close together

I'm leaning toward something kinda like a waterfarm with a seperate res and like nine 5 gallon paint buckets 3 rows of 3...I figured I could raise the buckets a few inches off the ground and have a return drain but once I thought of that it raised a bunch of questions...How to gauge pump gph for the setup...What sorta piping configuration to keep waterpressure at the nozzles even throughout(does that even matter? And especially making the seals where the supply/return pipes enter/exit the bucket as well as the connection to the pump(s)...spray painting the buckets...ability to disassemble or remove buckets not in use or do maintenance on a plant etc

I kinda had this idea that if I could get the bucket design setup with 2 threaded ends sticking out the bottom...one to connect the drain and one to connect the supply(it would let me make 9 buckets the same and just get flex lines to supply the water and drain and screw them on when in use and plug shut when not...I went looking for pvc that would have like rubber washers on either end so I could just cut a hole with a drill and screw press the seal on both but had no luck

The nice thing about the waterfarm pipes is that it looks like the lines are all bendy ehh suppose I have lots more supplies to lookup before I can start buildin

Ohhh and where I live we are in like the top 10 in the country in like every bad category...murder...crime...high school dropouts...drugs etc so I figured the seed just fell out a bag when someone was rollin up in the parking lot...although now you got me checking the windows ever 5 minutes hehe

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Bonger you have an aero setup right? what configuration did you go with? The more I keep thinkin about it I was figurin the pvc tubes angled back to a res would probably be the simplest just wonderin what ya settled on

[bongerstonerd00d]

ASD...yessir, I do. I use systems from Aquamist. I bought before I realized how easy it would be to build this equipment. Plus at time I had no idea where to get all the parts. I wanted to get things happening and did not want to fuck around trying to build something and need to rework it 14 times before I got it dialed in.

Since then I stumbled across US Plastic, which has anything plastic you need, or they can get it, and a few hydro websites where I could get everything to build whatever the hell I wanted. When I started I concentrated on growing, not building.

Anyways, they work, and work very well.

You wanna do buckets, you need to flag down Latewood on one of his visits. He has bucket growing down to a science.

If I were doing buckets I'd mirror that flood and drain setup they have with seperate controller. But, thats just me.


b0nger

[alwayssleepdeprived]

hey bonger do you remember what type of pump you have?

After a ton of reading I've come up with more of a solid idea but it shed light on a rather disturbing note on psi and the aeroponic benefit...I found that pump head height 6'....10'....20' etc is the psi translation and that the flow in gph really doesn't mean much I guess is why pumps with the same head height are pretty close in price and the jumps seem to come with the head height change...I'm still thinking about misting roots in the air anyway even though the benefit seems to be rather limited

Just wonderin if you have any thoughts or came across any info in your travels...I haven't been able to find much specific info on ideal sprayer psi ratings for flow and mist production (droplet size)...unfortunately lack of information has probably lead to millions spent in waste by people thinking the extra gph would make a difference

*mutters* 3 hours of research but atleast I found some answers guess you really get what ya pay for...high psi pumps are really expensive

I have a few new pics to post but it'll have to wait till tomorrow time for bed :)

[Weedhound]

ASD how about a new photo of the greenies?

Tom, how is that Gravity doing for you? Any issues? I'm planning on trying it this grow.....just turned to 12/12 yesterday.

[tomasinho]

Weedhound - The gravity is some weird stuff. I think that it does make the plants denser which is nice. However - you know how it says move the lights up six - 12 inches? Well - make sure you actually do move them up a bit. For some reason, after I added the gravity, my top leaves turned very purple and became very photosensitive - which caused light burn - which I believe results from some sort of nutrient build up in the leaves. You will see what I mean. Also - it made my rez a little gunky but not too bad. I am going to try it again on my next grow for the whole 12 days that it recommends. I only ran it for about 4 days b/c the plants were ready to be flushed so I didnt really give it a fair trial.
P.S.
When I used it, I cut down my nutes by 1/3. This stuff didnt make my EC go up at all, which was weird. My theory is that the Gravity does not make the EC reading go up b/c it is not a salt. When you pour it in, it looks more like a lipid - you see an oil on water effect. This is def. some weird shit. Correct me if my EC theory is wrong. Peace

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Finally got the aquastat regulator fixed on our boiler...the heat is back on...bout time, that's why I was gone for a couple days...I'll be back later tonight just posting a few pics to show the update...it got very cold but thankfully they seemed to handle it alright probably extended overall grow time or just lost more yield but after everything else it's not a surprise haha...1 & 2 are Zola 3 & 4 are Eve

I'll update with the progress of other projects seedlings....new hydro unit and fert schedule...pics are 24 days flower

[Weedhound]

Looking good....coming along great!! :thumbsup:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I'm thinking about getting another light to grow the new ones under while the others finish so I remembered

WH you use a 1000watter is that a mag or digital and like what's the closest you can get it to your plants? If the 1000 would have to be more than 2feet away I'd probably have to go with the 600

The 1000 would work out cheaper with only 1 bulb doin the same as eventually trading the 400 I have now for another 600...

I've been looking at the new lumatek e-ballast with all cords and parabolic reflector 600w($300ish) or 1000($450ish) not sure if I wanna bother goin 240 or just stick with 120 but I'll worry about that once I decide on the ballast...

My 400w hps ballast from sun systems doesn't get very hot at all it's barely warm to the touch and I don't have a fan on it...is digital really as good as lumatek says....longer bulb life and like 10-30% brighter?

The only bad thing I've heard is that digitals can interfere with RF signals or whatever and I've heard some people say yes and no...I know some recent post used 4-750 digitals I think it was racerx...I'd go with the 600 or 1000 just so I could use any bulb...

Everything with the grow is goin well the ppm is down to 950 ph is about 5.3ish...probably have 5 weeks left unless they decide to finish earlier on their own

[tomasinho]

They are looking fabulous! They will be looking crazy pretty soon too! Look like you are starting to get some nice crystals on the leaves - good job ASD.

[Weedhound]

950? Is that because of the bloom stimulator? I'll have to go check my ballast....I know it's not digital but it does go back and forth from hps/mh. I remember asking at the time whether I should go with several 600's vs 1000 for my room (8 waterfarms) and he told me 1000 was better than several lights and I'll be damned if I remember the why. I also asked him about conversion bulbs etc and the discussion came down to the best way to go. In his view the best way to go was 1kw switchable and i don't remember digital entering the conversation.

PS....mine is 120v

[Weedhound]

Ok my ballast is from Sunlight Supply and is called a GroPro.....i asked him which would be best and that's what he sold me. Along that same line the reflector I bought was.....Sun Systems by Sunlight Supply. Just to brag I saw the same reflector mentioned in Jorge's Cervantes book Marijuana Horticulture as being one of the best values in North America....whatever that means.

I am in the process of trying to decide how low I can get my hps bulb to my plants. The reflector is air-cooled with a 170cm inline fan and I have been working with X-Crispi on making improvements in the way I had it set up which has made quite an improvement in its cooling ability. I do not recommend trying a 1kw without some sort of cooling system......it will bake you right out of the house.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

My light and ballast are from sun systems sunlight supply as well and I've been very pleased...my 400w ballast runs relatively cool although it is pretty heavy...

I've just started hearing about digital ballasts all over the place and it seems that previous digitals had all kindsa problems etc...although the newer ones are supposed to be quirk free

I found out that 240v runs with less amps so it saves a bit of money...not much though the main thing it seems to do is put out less heat from the ballast...I'd assume the bulb itself produces atleast the same if not more heat (if it really burns brighter) so I'd definately have to get some sorta cooling plan in place...the basement stays "very" cool though so keeping the room below 80 will not be an issue regardless of light...actually I was thinking of using an open parabolic reflector with a fan just blowing across the top of the room...

As long as the production bugs are fixed I'm thinking about gettin the 1kw digi from lumatek but I'm still waiting for an e-mail response from the manufacturer it would be nice to have some extra light to grow other stuff so regardless of brand I think 1kw is the way to go

How are your girls goin WH they must be getting pretty big by now...

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I read that you are supposed to exhaust air with the fan to cool the light apparently that's better to do than pushing air through and out the other side...ya porbably already had it setup that way but just as a heads up ;-)

[Weedhound]

yes, that's the way mine is set up. And you'd be surprised just how much heat these bulbs put out, especially the mh bulb more so than the hps. ...the ballast is nothing in comparison heatwise. Believe me ASD, get you something to cool with if you go with 1kw.

My plants are doing well four or five days into flower....nothing showing yet. I'll take a photo of them and post it later today. They are extremely resistant to my increasing the ppms on them.....right now they are at 650 with the old sicko at 575. Everytime I try to jump them up they don't do well so I'm sticking with that. They seem quite happy with it although being THAT low makes me nervous.

Speaking of which.....your ppms at 950? Was that suggested w/your bloom stimulator because if not kick them back up to 1200 (slowly please). Now is the time to push them to the edge.....pretty soon they will be chopped and smoked so its now or never. Obviously if that is what is recommended for some reason then please ignore this entire last paragraph.

[Weedhound]

So here's some new photos....think I'm on day 5 bloom. (I do have it written down Bonger just too lazy to walk accross the room and look so ha :p) They are such different heights etc I had trouble getting a good photo of all of them so pretty much front to back.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

that does seem kinda low but all that really matters is they're happy

I kept dropping mine cause once I lowered the ph it seemed like they were showing signs of overnute...The new leaves have started to come out with a much flatter look and the tips aren't burning anymore so yer probably right about starting to inch it on up again...thankfully the cold didn't seem to hurt them at all it was like 50 at night but they were both troopers...

If the buds plump up as much as everyone says the last half of flower it should be a very exciting month

The walmart seed was the first of the new batch to break soil and is a nice dark green...the rest are also pretty similar in color but seem to have more ribbed leaves hard to describe...11 of the 16 have made it so now I just have to get crackin on a system for them

[alwayssleepdeprived]

They do look healthy as can be...we do need to get you cloning though weedy, that alone would probably increase yer yields by a good margin...

How far away is your light currently? What's crispi's take on it? I don't have any experience with that much power in lighting but you should be able to atleast get it within 3ft? My 400 can get just about 6 inches away maybe even closer but I'm afraid to try it...so I'd be surprised if the 1000 needs to be more than 5x the distance

I can't say for sure but my bulb puts out 54 or 55k lumens and yours should be about 150k so that's 3x...and you are cooling yours while I'm not even venting mine hmm after lookin at the pic they do look a bit yellow near the new growth but they could probably handle some more fire

how many times have you topped them so far?

I think I need to get a good floro setup for the seedlings cause the 40 watts I got on em now seems to take forever to get em goin...it's possible the bulbs just need to be replaced but if I remember right I got em for less than 20 bucks each bulb included...they are rather nice fixtures though I might be able to just replace with a nice bulb...more to ponder heh

[Weedhound]

Oh i'll go w/feminized seeds before I go to clones.....I just don't want the entire extra setup and I haven't seen one strain yet that I look at and say
"that and only that" over.

I've gotten my light down to 17 inches above my plants but am in the process of seeing if I can get it lower with X-C's help. Now he's got those cooltube things and swears by them. If you are interested I could go poke his ass and see if I can drag him over here. With cooltube and good fan you can get your 1kw down to like 8 inches. If I didn't have the reflector I already have I'd buy a cooltube. :thumbsup:

If you can slowly raise your ppms safely then do. They need everything they can get (to me) in the last 3-4 weeks. But good plan being better safe than sorry.....especially now. ;)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I hear ya on the extra setups that's definately a pain to have a bunch of different things running all at once...17 inches sounds pretty close to me so if you can get it closer more power to ya...ideally I'd like to have an open parabola that I can just blow a fan over but I don't know how realistic that is...I'm gonna be lookin into a cool tube now that ya mention it...haha poke all ya want just don't be too rough with him...atleast until he gets your light as close as possible ;)

I found out some information on the lumatek's...it seems that the old ones are the gray and any other color(light blue, darker blue, purple) are all the newer version with little to no interference...the tech told me you would notice some AM distortion within 10 ft but nothing that would annoy neighbors and if ya can't have any interference the 600's are rated at 0 when yer more than one foot from the ballast, the 5 year warranty isn't bad either and with all the 3rd party test results putting them at the top they are the way to go at this point...1kw should atleast allow me to pull 2-3 z's and grow some other veggies at the same time...light/nute hungry tomatoes are next to go in and probably a few onions as I hear they have a nice smell...as long as I can figure out how to wire a 240 line....luckily I already have one as a guide in my dryer so it should be easy as pie

Bonger must be experiencing more of that springtime whip crackin from his lady haha

Unfortunately it's still below freezing here so it doesn't even feel like winter is over yet I'm definately itchin to enjoy some great outdoors

Still waiting for the pump I bought to arrive once it gets here I'm gonna put a prototype unit together...I'll post the details once I have the stuff worked out and make it like a little tutorial if all goes well

Good luck gettin those girls to eat more ttyl

[alwayssleepdeprived]

tom thanks for checkin in I'm definately plannin on keepin up on your grows the buds look just about perfect imo...I still have so much catching up to do, all you guys produce beautiful herb well I haven't seen bonger's but I'm sure it's gotta be dank if he's stumbling off his tractor :p I've atleast been able to avoid the daily disaster for almost a month *fingers crossed* 90% of where I am I owe to all your help especially weedy she's kept me in line right good :D

The boiler regulator goin was a scary one cause I've never dabbled in that sorta repair but thankfully it worked out as good as I could have hoped and the house is toasty once again

As for the crystals they are definately amplified by the flash in the pic but I can definately notice the main cola on the shorter plant starting to show tiny specs even with the hps on so I'm happy...can't wait to see how these babes bring it home

oh and I accidentally broke off a branch while trying to train a hidden budsite to get more light so I quickdryed some in the microwave and some in the oven...both bowls seemed to hit about the same...relatively harsh but the buzz was surprisingly noticeable since I haven't smoked any in some time, nothing compared to finished bud but it was nice...I'm going to stick with training the c99 cause she's like rubber but no more with the other

I'll probably take a tiny snip from both trees in 3 weeks and again at 4 and probably harvest at 5 so I have an idea of what high feels the best

Does flushing change the buzz or does it just make the hits smoother?

[Weedhound]

oh and I accidentally broke off a branch while trying to train a hidden budsite

Congratulations ASD, you've just been accepted into the major leagues. :cool:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

rofl thanks hound and such a welcome I feel all warm and fuzzy inside although that could be the nitrogen :stoned:

I was upset right after it happened but then I was like ehh atleast I can smoke it...all part of the experience right?

I'm taking a hands off approach to all cola's from here on out :cool:

[xcrispi]

Hello A.S.D , Bonger , and my Sis. -> W/H .

Bonger - I have a 12k guardian nat gas self starting gen myself . It's sweet till you get brown outs and fry the coils inside the transfer switch . LOL . then no pole or gen. either 1 . I also noticed a slight voltage drop in the house when gen runs once a week to chg. it's battery , it was causing my 1000's to hotstart = killing bulb life . I just friday ordered some CAP 15 min. time delays for them to prevent this .

And I too called W/H Bro. / dude for 7 mos. till a naked lady comment came up . Then I thought maybe gay for a split second ? Then the Mrs. cracked me upside the head -n- said shes a chick . I was a bad dog too .

A.S.D - You guys have covered much much info . W/H -n- Bonger have both been giving you good info btw , atleast from what i know . I kept up w/ the 1st cpl. pages but know nothing about aeroponics except ppl. get way pissed when sprayers get clogged up . Im a buckethead myself .

Bongers right w/ ventilation - plants wont live in a vacuum atleast not well , my own room is slightly pressurised due to only an intake blower -n- no exhaust blower , just a dozen passive darkroom vents .

240v/120v I caught your comment on saving a lil w/ 240v .= Nope wont save a dime , kilowatt hrs / are kilowatt hrs. ballast uses the same amount of juice to fire bulb regardless . Be damn careful about these new fangled electronic ballasts too . I've read much voo doo about not all bulbs working in them - atleast not for long = longevity issues . I too have sun light supply ballasts , saving a dime on my electric bill honestly never entered my head , a 5 -8 yr. warranty on my equipment did though .

Bongers right again - power co. could give a rats ass how much juice you use , just as long as it's paid for - and on time . Don't expect the church to pay your grow bills , that's why they come snooping around S.S ' place . Karmas a bitch . Not crashin on S.S either btw , but you cant play games w/ your freedom !

W/H hinted you had cooltube questions etc... last time she and I spoke , fire away man ? And sorry for my short attn. span w/ your thread -I just know nill about aero sys - much better w/ buckets is all . God I miss Krusty - B.O.G - and SoQuick .

Peace all
Stay safe
The Crispis' :jointsmile:

[bongerstonerd00d]

XC, power is very consistent where I am, either its on or its OFF.....lol Never have seen a brown out here. Have seen em in FL during storms, but never have experienced here.

I notice no different when it does its weekly routine. I dont know if its how its hooked up, or because of that switch/relay thing, or what. I know very little about the entire setup except it works, actually. My IBEW bud is in charge of that detail in the event of problems, not me.

Clogged Sprayers.......I use Mag Drive pumps that have sponge pre filter, plus I keep in pump bag, and I use Hydroton and rockwool......nothing to really get in mine and clog.

If the power company went looking everytime someone used "too much power", thats all they'd get done. They do not even have close the manpower to do such. They could give a shit less. Think about it, if you pay your bill online (debit from checking), they have a customer who puts money in their bank account monthly........Hell, they love you. Not to mention you NEVER "pop up" on some late/no payment report so in theory nobody ever sees your bill but a computer. I dont even get a paper copy of bill anymore. If I want one I can print from online.

My meter reader chick comes by and has a handheld that she points at meter and it beeps like a supermarket register reading UPC codes. Thats it, shes gone.

And I sure as in the hell would not go asking someone to "help" pay the bill. No way, no.....nope.....That would freak me the hell out. All I have to say about that. Next.

Oh, I use Cool Breeze cool tubes, too. Draw outside of grow room air thru em and exhaust into attic on same vent line after the carbon scrubber. Works like a charm. The more control you have on your growing evvironment, the better the results, in MY opinion only.

I am done for the summer, harvested last Saturday night. I'll still be dropping in to kill time and read up on things, but no mo growin til fall. Plus it wont be long til the kiddies are out of skewl and flooding this place with bonehead questions. That gets very annoying to me, and quickly.

ASD......sounds like you are learning to keep your paws off things that dont need messed with:D :D Remember, keep it simple, this stuff aint that hard to grow, bro:rasta: :rasta: You have came a long well and 'Hound has been a true mentor to you. I wish you the best of results.

'Hound, hope all is well with you. Guess you had some snow this week from what I saw on weather, or at least close to you anyways.

A good weekend to all,
b0nger

[Thinx]

All look good to me but I know nothing hope it turns out good for you

[tomasinho]

Hey ASD! I hope all is well. When do the new budshots come out? It feels like its been awhile - but I am probably just impatient. Welp - I guess we'll see ya soon.

[Weedhound]

Yes, where the h*ll IS that boy?

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I've kinda got stuck in a pit of endless repairs...once I fixed the aquastat relay it strained another old part called the intermittent ignitor or somethin like that basically it sparks the boiler when it's time once I got that figured out I found a couple electrical issues that are still bein cleared up...that and the warm weather I've had to get a few things taken care of to please the "boss" heh

the grow is goin fine I guess doesn't seem to be changing very much maybe a bit more crystal than before but I got a couple pics to post anyway...

welcome crispi I definately have a some questions for you on the reflector of choice...I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go with a 600w in a week or so just wonderin what sorta fan system is generally put in place to cool the reflector...I've looked around online but couldn't find anything put together do they have fans that just clamp on like a 6" or 8" exhaust?

hehe yeah bonger I've had to resort to slapping my hand everytime I wanna touch something in there...it's so tough just watching idly it's hard to resist :cool:

Thanks thinx as long as they finish strong I'll be thrilled

Hope you are all doin well and enjoyin some of this beautiful weather across the country, if it's nice out even work doesn't seem quite as bad :D

One more major repair with the electrical before I can focus on plumbing and finishing touches in the growroom slowly but sure it's comin along

[Weedhound]

Even in the dark those look sweeeeet! Quite a bit more crystals in my view....maybe just camera flash but sure looks good. Glad you're back....was starting to worry....:cool:

[Weedhound]

DAMN Bonger you are LOOKING GOOD!!!! I want to look like YOU!!! :D

[xcrispi]

Hey ASD ,
I love my cooltubes just like Bonger . I run 2 inline w/ 2- 1000w. hps
and a 6in. 630 H/O centrifugal fan , Vortex or Grotek are my favorites due to 5 and 10 yr. warranties . They make a 6 in. 450 cfm blower that would cool a pair of 600's I bet .

W/H has a square boxy hood that impedes airflow and can keep it cool w/ only a 4in. 170 cfm Vortex = like 85 deg temps right on the glass . With the cooltubes Im able to get lamps w/in 6-8 in of canopy during flowering and still cover my whole grow as well .
Peace man
Crispi :jointsmile:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

thank you for the info crispi I finally got the electrical updated and now just a bit more work before I can upgrade the lighting but it's comin along nicely...the newest seedlings are gettin ready to hop in after harvest and the clone is still healthy just kinda slow growing cause the plants quickly outgrew the available light I have now

I need to get a scope so I can see the trichs color...right now it's about 5 to 10 percent colored pistils the c99 was definately a taller faster growin plant so it's hurt growth a bit with only one light but tons of bud sites help counteract the small bud size...The indica has much tighter bud production with way more crystals the hairs are turning bright orange as opposed to c99's darker brown

I ended up settling right around 1000-1100 for ppm and the ph seems to drop about 2 to 3 tenths a day

I've been using the dehumidified water and currently it's pulling enough to supply all 0 ppm watering at start it pulls about 1.5 to 2.5 gallons a day

I'll post some pictures once the light is off today for an update and get yer advice on bout how much longer till chop time...I'm planning on a 5-7 day flush

Hope everyone is enjoying the spring so far

[Weedhound]

Glad to see you ASD! Thanks for the update.....keep it up. Can't wait for photos. :thumbsup:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Ok hopefully this works my computer has crashed when I try to post em

[alwayssleepdeprived]

My ph drops a ton at night now but is fine during the day so I check it twice over the night cycle and once in the morning to level off at 5.2 - 5.3

I'm still running on 0ppm it went down from like 30 once I cleaned out the bin

Does it look like I should flush soon by the color change? the top of eve is still all white with no change at all so I'm waitin to see when that starts to go I'll probably do it

[xcrispi]

ASD ,
Be careful w/ using water from dehum. I was warned by someone at another site that god knows what could be living in it .
Crispi :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

My man ASD you need to get you a little 30x microscope from Radioshack (about $10) and start checking your trichomes. That's the only way to tell for sure whether they are ready to be plucked. I have a russian bag seed type that the pistils really don't change on (stay pretty white) but have nice and cloudy trichs. Different types.....

[Weedhound]

God those are really gorgeous.....great job asd! :thumbsup:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Thanks WH ;-) day 47 of flower I'm hopin for a strong finish the short one really has tight formation it feels almost like a little club if you shake the branch

I had some issues when I first started using the dehumidifier crispi but it went away once I cleaned it out and did a res change...now everything is nice and crystally with the exception of the top of Eve's cola...it was the last to stop stretching so maybe that's normal?

the babies are lookin decent same old story slow at first but they come alive in the aero...once I get the new setup it will be easier to get the garden outside setup get some veggies goin and some flowers for color the yard is so green it's annoying rofl

I've never used a lawn feed or weed killer but I got this pump spray weed killer thing I'm hoping it can deal with the lawn issue I used the whole gallon on a relatively small lawn spread some fert to green up the lawn we'll see how it turns out I wanna get everything cleaned up for the summer I've been so busy lately

Your girls are gettin big WH I'm sensing a record yield :jointsmile:

I'm so lookin forward to harvest just gotta get through the cure and it's time to light up :stoned:

[Weedhound]

Yeah i'm starting a mini-sog thing too....had the fungus spray issue and it really made us rethink how to grow. I just took a peek at the first page of your thread.....your plants looked like old socks hanging in a gym and look at them now! I'm so proud....and I didn't even grow them. :D

Once you get more time find some newbies to help....especially fun when you've made the exact same mistakes and know the answers!!:thumbsup:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I picked a tiny bud from each and dried it for a sample here's a pic of both

PH is still droppin like a brick over night...a few more days till flush I can't wait

I think tomorrow I'm gonna have to get that 30x viewer tomorrow

[tomasinho]

Good job ASD! The one on the right looks like its getting close but the one on the left looks like it has more to go (2 weeks). But WH is right, you really have to use microscope to see. Which one is the thick one?

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I'm thinking about the same thing on the harvest times I'm figuring it's not the end of the world to chop the indica a little late considering it's supposed to get more couchy that way I just want to get a bit of flushing before it's done...I didn't get any headache from what I smoked but it was such a small amount it's tough to tell

The one on the left is the c99 it's the taller lankier plant it's a light green with some brown pistils forming and so far the smell is fairly weak even though it's a little over 4ft tall now

The one on the right is the indica it's pretty short and stocky lookin, darker green with orange pistils and the smell is much stronger...this is the thick one with very tight buds at just 2ft tall if ya shake the branch it feels like a little club haha

I can't wait till they're both done cause the babies are itchin for a transplant

[hydrocannabis]

do U got a pic of the whole set up. ya know plant & system & lights and all that.

the right bud looks great. and the left one looks good also but its gunna need about a nother 2-3 weeks. like tomasinho said.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

I got me a scope today...it's a radioshack deal but the $10 model takes 2AAA's for a little light and 60x - 100x magnification with a focuser...I'll have to snip a little piece of the buds to check the trichs I see 30% clear 67% white maybe 3% colored

good call on goin to radioshack WH this makes it so much easier to know where the ladies are from finish

I'm now at 700ppm 100 ppm of maxibloom and 600 of koolbloom and I'll be starting the flush any day now