A Grower's Code of Ethics... Love, Stinky

[stinkyattic]

Hello friends, growers, aspiring growers, and fans of the sacred Herb!

I wanted to take some time and put together a collection of my thoughts on various ethical questions that have come up during the time Iâ??ve been here at canncom.

This is only the first installmentâ?¦ more to follow.

It is by no means meant to be a holier-than-thou sermon, just my feelings on a few subjectsâ?¦ growing in your parentsâ?? home, taking othersâ?? outdoor crops, helping out a med user in need, selling, scrounging street lights, intellectual property of breeders, to name a few.

Some issues were addressed in old threads, and some are just out of my grow journal; I wanted to collect them all in one place to be both a personal manifesto and serve as a reminder that we are NOT criminals, we are honest people with morals and a sense of community.

When we all stand together peacefully and cooperatively with the common mission of showing our respective governments what we REALLY believe in, thereâ??s no force that can repress us.

[stinkyattic]

For the guerilla farmerâ?¦

Since cannabis cultivation is generally illegal, if you want to hold yourself to a higher standard, it is important to remember not to put anyone else in danger, not to harm the environment, and not to break any other laws while cultivating your outdoor crop.

Where is it appropriate to grow cannabis?

That is a simple question!

You should pick your spot to avoid trespassing on private property and potentially endangering the owner of the land you plan to use. A homeowner could be in danger of legal problems if your crop is found by the police, even if the homeowner is not aware of it. He could still face having to pay outrageous legal bills to prove his innocence.

Places to look for are land owned by very large entities, who are far better protected from legal action, as they can reasonably well say that no representative of that entity is responsible for the plants.

The railroad company, the power company, and the government all own large tracts of land that are fantastic for growing cannabis. Beneath power lines and along the edges of a railroad cut are classic spots. Parks are good too if you are very careful. Land owned by a logging company can provide wonderful opportunities, as the roads are easy to ride on a mountain bike and the parts of the land suitable for cannabis cultivation are generally NOT suitable for timber harvesting.

What about the environment?

Take only pictures (and buds, lol) and leave only footprints, right?

Donâ??t leave your used fert bags or empty pots at the siteâ?¦ not just because of the risk of someone noticing them, but because of a respect for the earth. Notice the vegetation near your grow, and try to fit your plants into a logical spot where you arenâ??t going to need excessive irrigation or to cause a disruption in the ecosystem. Know what local plants are rare or endangered, and donâ??t interfere with them.

[stinkyattic]

For everyoneâ?¦

This is an excerpt from a thread dated October 2006.


New Thread
Oct-03-2006, 12:55
stinkyattic
What do I do if I find cannabis plants growing in the wild?

This question comes up every year about this time.

You might be out hiking and stumble across a single cannabis plant, or a whole bunch of them.

Your first reaction might be, "wow, that's a lot of pot, I can't wait to get it home and smoke it! That's enough for the whole winter!", or even "I bet I can sell that stuff and pay off my car loan!"

But please stop and think for a moment.

Someone has put those plants there, taken risks, and worked hard caring for them since June. They aren't just growing there by themselves and someone is going to be heartbroken that they're gone.

Think about the grower as another person.

Maybe they would like to have some smoke for the winter, but can't afford the prices that dealers charge.

Maybe they are growing a few plants to sell.

Maybe they are counting on that income to help buy food and fuel for the coming winter.

Remember too that one of the obstacles to the legalization of cannabis is the theft, violence, and general dishonesty that can spin off of it. When tokers can be ethical and all get along without stealing each others' stashes, and then having the snots beat out of them for it, the case becomes stronger that it is a relaxing and peaceful way to alter your perceptions.

So when you stumble on a plant in the woods, remember that as a toker, you are part of this community. Just leave it there for the person who grew it.

[stinkyattic]

Intellectual Property

An original strain is intellectual property of the breeder, the way a book is property of a writer and should not be reproduced without permission.

Since we are growing in a real legal grey area, we need to be a self policing community. The breeder often does not have the legal recourse to prevent knockoffs from being sold, as many breeders have to remain anonymous for fear of arrest.

Refuse to buy knockoffs! Itâ??s like the difference between burning a mix CD for a friend, and buying bootlegged videos off the street. If you want to make a few F2s and keep them as backup, or even give them to your best growing buddy, you have a reasonable right to do thatâ?¦ but to distribute them on a larger scale, or God forbid sell them for profit, is wrong.

This came from a thread that SubCool (an American breeder) started.

New Threadâ?¦ Part of Subcoolâ??s threadâ?¦
Jan-12-2007, 11:24
stinkyattic

Well I believe that ethically you should make every attempt to credit the original breeder if you are going to make a cross using his or her strain... for example, if I were to give you some seeds from a cross that I recently did with a really nice Afghani Dream that I got from a friend, and a Plan B Smashberry, I would give them to you with the heritage listed properly, just like the references in a scientific journal article, when you build upon previous research.

Now if I were to take those same Plan B Smashberry plants and just cross them to each other, that would be an F2, and I would not THINK of selling those seeds without the written permission of the original breeders, and would actually hesitate to even give them to friends since that strain is still on the market and I would be guilty of basically bootlegging their work.

I think that once the strain is off the market for whatever reason, such as the retirement of the breeder (which is the case with MasterGrown seeds selling BOG Bogglegum F2's recently on seedbay), if I had the original genetics I'd be happy to give them to friends at that point since the strain is unavailable, and to keep it alive, but it should be easier to convince the original breeder to allow production of the strain, again, WITH CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE, and selling knockoffs without permission is STILL highly unethical. Remember that bitch 420Mory? mm hmm....

See what I mean?

[Psycho4Bud]

MUCH RESPECT your way stinkyattic! Good karma always finds its way home and I'm sure you have plenty coming.:D

With all due respect to Latewood and Zandor I'm going to put a sticky on this.....I feel it's justified.:smokin:

Have a VERY good one!:jointsmile:

[stinkyattic]

Thank you Psycho4Bud.
I appreciate the support.

[latewood]

Hey..OK with me. Nice post...

I don't totally agree with the seed breeding post though. I agree with not buying crap...like mory420 sold, or never delivered. All seeds came from somewhere, before they were bred. So if a grower decides to breed, and produces a quality product...In the name of free enterprise...If said grower turned breeder wants to take the risk of selling his bred creations...He shouldn't be chastized for it. However; I feel that in these cases; credit should be given to the origin of the seeds. peace. Sorry for the rant, but that is how feel. Keep in mind, I said "If" and "Quality".

a note: Skunk, and Haze...etc. were originally bred somewhere, but then the breeders discussed sell them, after making crosses...NO difference IMO. What makes one breeder favored over the other...Time? I think not. Quality and delivery of said quality product after purchase is my only concern. Maybe I'm wrong, and I am sure someone will bring it up. LOL peace

Great sticky though, peace

[stinkyattic]

a note: Skunk, and Haze...etc. were originally bred somewhere, but then the breeders discussed sell them, after making crosses...NO difference IMO.
. Well of course that's true! I just think that effort should be made to cite genetic background.. the way dog breeders list pedigrees...
But Skunk and Haze are also so common as to be prey to the same sorts of reproduction as store-brand snack foods... the Doritos of the pot world, as it were!


What makes one breeder favored over the other...Time? I think not. Quality and delivery of said quality product after purchase is my only concern.
Actually TIME is a neat point! Like the difference between Irish folk music and something that was written by a KNOWN composer and something that was written by a KNOWN, LIVING composer... So for strains that would fall into similar categories, the way I see it... Durban Poison would be like folk music... Skunk #1 would be like the work of a classical composer... something bred last year would fall into the final category... the newer the strain and its parent strains, the more effort should be made to track that information.
I think the legalization of cannabis will really allow that to happen more efficiently.
Of course though I agree that quality is of prime importance and that a breeder risks mockery for releasing a crap strain!
Oh and re-reading the original post, Mastergrown had express permission to make and sell F2s... just so there is no confusion... he was acting with the consent of the original breeder, who had retired.

[Volker]

LOL! :D I can't wait till you get to the part about scrounging street lights & security lights. (guilty!)

[Chronisseur]

[QUOTE][TIME is a neat point! Like the difference between Irish folk music and something that was written by a KNOWN composer and something that was written by a KNOWN, LIVING composer... So for strains that would fall into similar categories, the way I see it... Durban Poison would be like folk music... Skunk #1 would be like the work of a classical composer... something bred last year would fall into the final category... the newer the strain and its parent strains, the more effort should be made to track that information.
I think the legalization of cannabis will really allow that to happen more efficiently.
/QUOTE]
Another intelligent explanation from the stinkfactor!

[Weedhound]

The Doritos of the pot world.....lol. Great one:thumbsup:

[onequickmove]

growing weed is not a bad thing; don't make yourself a bad person by turning it into one; good stuff stinky

[hippiemommaida]

I agree!

[Tox]

wooo!:woohoo:

[legalize_it420_4ever]

a nice standard to hold yourself too if u can money and greed do crazy things to people sometimes n what do u mean by selling the work do you mean selling the seeds or selling the nug from the plants that grown from the seeds that they gave knowing what was planned for them ur still sayin that credit should b given to the source n draw heat un-necisary to him just a hypothetical situation here but if i gave some1 seeds to grow n they choose to sell to sell the weed thats wrong? i think i might just be confused by what exactly you mean

[Shovelhandle]

please, friends don't let friends steal other people's dope crops.

Cracky

[Tea Party]

Intellectual Property

An original strain is intellectual property of the breeder, the way a book is property of a writer and should not be reproduced without permission.



It is definitely a good thing to keep track of heredity for historical, scientific, and breeding purposes, BUT I STRONGLY OBJECT TO THE TERM INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. This implies that the egos of growers must be stroked to have a proper growing community. The plants do their breeding by whatever higher power each grower does or does not believe in; the grower just babysits and makes sure they do not kill each other or break up the furniture. At best a farmer is a day laborer, but he/she is not the architect of the fruit.

I am thinking of the above metaphor of the dog breeder, and I do not think anybody believes a person should have intellectual property rights over the appearance and performance of the offspring of two different yet horny dogs they have kenneled in the back yard. Sure they would die if the breeder did not feed them, but we should be more concerned with the dogs than the breeders and likewise with weed.

Our society is evolving away from the notion of intellectual property rights, and I think that is a good thing. Ownership of anything is dangerous enough, but genetics? How are you going to feel about this after decriminalization and Pfizer with their 150,000 employees has intellectual property rights over your stash? Then bootlegging will be allowed, I am sure! :D

[FlyGuyOU]

stinky did you forget about us?

[zlessley]

Tea Party (are you really banned?) it is intellectual property if someone took the time to figure out the genetics (I don't mean like ATCG, more like Mendel's works). Even simply crossing a vigorous male with a very oily lady, that's not god, allah, or anything (well.. maybe the Tao...) anyway, it's human intellect, that may or may not be influence by a higher power, but then who's to say that any author, artist, whoever produced something wasn't influence by said power. SO, by acknowledging that there is intellectual property (i.e. books, paintings, strains of plants) then anyone who has put a thought into what they produced, has made it their own.
Oh, and btw, there's a reason why pretty much every commercial apple strain (even the ones you buy at the nursery) are either registered trademarks, or are copyrighted. Breeding cannabis is a trade, so is producing it, thus, if you name your stablized strain "booboo-kittyfuck" it's booboo-kittyfuck and nobody should call it anything else, nor should they intentionally disregard your work and not cite your work.

BAH!

oh, and the breeder's ego need not be stroked by anyone, just give them credit, at least by using its given name... ie booboo-kittyfuck

[stinkyattic]

I think you're right, it's the effort put into creation of something that does not exist in nature that justifies putting the creator's own stamp on it and asking that it not be reproduced without the blessing of its creator.

[Divedeep129]

Thanks for setting a standard guys. It's nice to see responsibility in the community. :)

[dejayou30]

I think it should also be said that we should try to avoid buying into the black market. IF you feel like you want to sell some, don't charge black market prices. Sell it to make enough to cover some of your supplies because it DOES cost money, even though it seems like free weed. $50+ for a gallon of nutes is not free! If you choose to sell it for a profit as some will inevitably do, you should donate a percentage to a charity or some kind of organization like the MPP or NORML. Its time to change the view of marijuana growers as criminals and start putting this plant and ourselves in a better light!

[stinkyattic]

IF you feel like you want to sell some, don't charge black market prices. Sell it to make enough to cover some of your supplies because it DOES cost money, even though it seems like free weed...
...Its time to change the view of marijuana growers as criminals and start putting this plant and ourselves in a better light!

Dejayou you have the kind of honorable thinking that makes med growers and activists proud.

[veggii]

I think it should also be said that we should try to avoid buying into the black market. IF you feel like you want to sell some, don't charge black market prices. Sell it to make enough to cover some of your supplies because it DOES cost money, even though it seems like free weed. $50+ for a gallon of nutes is not free! If you choose to sell it for a profit as some will inevitably do, you should donate a percentage to a charity or some kind of organization like the MPP or NORML. Its time to change the view of marijuana growers as criminals and start putting this plant and ourselves in a better light!

I second that! I was thinking of starting one of these non-profit
co-ops and donate the profit's to Hep-C research and the cities
low-income programs...I think it could bail them out!!
just think no more homeless,starving people in your city!!
The city i currently live has alot of $$$$ problems first thing
that gets cut is help for low-income families.
I have been watching these medical marijuana despenciaries and
I don't see any of them donating any profit's back into the communities.
I see them making 2 million to 10 million a yr and keep it all,this is wrong.
on a goodnote i have seen a few of them that
are getting it rite,free meds, yes ty

[SnSstealth]

wow...cant believe it took me this long to find this thread...i agree totally here....i would never breed anything without credit due. i may not have permission at times, like my cross now is sensi seeds jack herer and dutch passion bubbleberry....i write that every time, but i dont have their permission.
basically, i think you should get permission when you can, but ALWAYS give credit to breeders...how pissed would i be if i helped out another grower with beans, and all of a sudden, someone is on here having "created" bubble jack...i went through alot to pick out parents and select phenotypes of these...i cant do shit though if they did....
So always have respect for other growers/breeders.
:Smokebong:
whiskeytango

[SnSstealth]

bump!

[elskeetro]

A question that has come up in our circle a few times regarding breeding and strains...

What about bagseed?

let's say you find a bean or 2 in a good bag that you want to grow but you have no way of finding out what strain it is or where it came from?

Is it best to just leave it as a great "unknown" smoke? or is it cool to give it a little nick name? would you find it unethical to share some clones of it with your grow pals? What if you wanted to use it in future crosses or breeds?

just some thoughts...
Skeet

[stinkyattic]

IMHO, it's always going to be 'bagseed' or 'super local mystery mix' or something that reflects its origins as best you know. I am running a couple unknowns. One came from a mixed breeder pack from bushy old grower, so it's called 'BOG mystery'. Another is a local outdoor strain that even the growers are unclear on as to the origins, so it's 'Vermont Purple Shit'. Say I got something from my friend's carpet (yes, this has happened)... I'd probably call it 'rug nugs'... lol!

If you think it's worthy of sharing, go for it! If you think it's breedable, hey knock yourself out! If you end up stabilizing what it was that you liked about it in the first place, yes, you should definitely give it a name. It's a long process, and you'd have earned it.

Food for thought... ChemDawg, which has since become a legend, has been passed around in clone form for over a decade, and is the male parent of East Coast Sour Diesel (force-herm pollen against a female Massachusetts Super Skunk), was a bagseed...

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Great Thread Stinky:thumbsup:

I want to bring Veggi's question to the top again because I feel it is worth a little discussion. Where is the money from these dispensaries going? I can see the overhead to run them, But if they are bringing in 10 million that is allot more than overhead. I do not live near any MM state or dispensary and I have no Idea what they charge So I guess I need allot of enlightenment on this subject.

My only real concern is if these dispensaries are making big profits and not giving some back to the community they are giving the movement a black eye.

JG

[stinkyattic]

It's funny, I think about that too, and my take on it is that it is further impetus for all of us to grow our own. Since the site is so heavily sponsored by dispensaries, I am going to try to avoid getting into a big essay on the achievements and failings of MMJ legislation state-by-state but I WILL say that I am impressed by the VT style laws which are a true product of the Yankee do-it-yourself attitude: They say, in no uncertain terms: Grow it yourself, or register your Aunt Betty, the one with the crazy punkin patch, to grow it for ya. High prices for any medicine make me cringe, and when MMJ starts feeling like Big Pharma, I am going to cry.

[Mississippi Steve]

IMHO, it's always going to be 'bagseed' or 'super local mystery mix' or something that reflects its origins as best you know. I am running a couple unknowns. One came from a mixed breeder pack from bushy old grower, so it's called 'BOG mystery'. Another is a local outdoor strain that even the growers are unclear on as to the origins, so it's 'Vermont Purple Shit'. Say I got something from my friend's carpet (yes, this has happened)... I'd probably call it 'rug nugs'... lol!

If you think it's worthy of sharing, go for it! If you think it's breedable, hey knock yourself out! If you end up stabilizing what it was that you liked about it in the first place, yes, you should definitely give it a name. It's a long process, and you'd have earned it.

Food for thought... ChemDawg, which has since become a legend, has been passed around in clone form for over a decade, and is the male parent of East Coast Sour Diesel (force-herm pollen against a female Massachusetts Super Skunk), was a bagseed...


Either way... credit paid where credit is due. THe seed that I grow is from breeders and seed banks. I *ALWAYS* refer to each strain by its name.... such as Arjans Ultra Haze#1, or Afghani Hundu Kush, or Sensimillia. THe last stuff I got from my brother(with medical card) in California, I didn't know what strain, so it it was refered to as "Cali Pharma".

If I had spent the time and money to produce a particular strain, I would sure as hell hope that the name I gave it would stick, and that my time and work were appreciated. Just keep in mind that once MJ is legal, there are going to be a hord of folks headed to the patent office for all of the induhvidual strains.

[stinkyattic]

Just keep in mind that once MJ is legal, there are going to be a hord of folks headed to the patent office for all of the induhvidual strains.
HELL YEAH. You think Monsanto isn't already getting prepped to slap patents on whatever it can?
You bring up a really good point, the implications of which are that if growers DO have a good record of pedigrees and agreed-upon names and lineages, it will be harder for the agri-giants to steal them from us.
United We Stand, friends.

[bigmumma]

Either way... credit paid where credit is due. THe seed that I grow is from breeders and seed banks. I *ALWAYS* refer to each strain by its name.... such as Arjans Ultra Haze#1, or Afghani Hundu Kush, or Sensimillia. THe last stuff I got from my brother(with medical card) in California, I didn't know what strain, so it it was refered to as "Cali Pharma".

If I had spent the time and money to produce a particular strain, I would sure as hell hope that the name I gave it would stick, and that my time and work were appreciated. Just keep in mind that once MJ is legal, there are going to be a hord of folks headed to the patent office for all of the induhvidual strains.

i thought u said all these new strains were shit old boy:rastasmoke:chill out bro,....thumbs up to stinky,smart man,he knows his shit,:thumbsup:steve just chill out and listen carefully to sticky and even subcool...u will learn a lot:rasta:

[FlyGuyOU]

i thought u said all these new strains were shit old boy:rastasmoke:chill out bro,....thumbs up to stinky,smart man,he knows his shit,:thumbsup:steve just chill out and listen carefully to sticky and even subcool...u will learn a lot:rasta:



Stinky just so happens to be a mad sexy ultra foxy....lady

[BeFree]

Almost a year old. Must have dug a few pages back to call the inactive Queen of cann.com a guy.

More than a few handfuls have made the same mistake. =P

be

[MARlJUANA]

Im new to this site and readng through this is awesome, why cant all tokers have morals? stinkyattic props for being one of the few honest people out there :)

[stupids]

Great thread ...

Is Stinky still around ... havent read anything new from her lately ...

[Ocotillo]

a nice standard to hold yourself too if u can money and greed do crazy things to people sometimes n what do u mean by selling the work do you mean selling the seeds or selling the nug from the plants that grown from the seeds that they gave knowing what was planned for them ur still sayin that credit should b given to the source n draw heat un-necisary to him just a hypothetical situation here but if i gave some1 seeds to grow n they choose to sell to sell the weed thats wrong? i think i might just be confused by what exactly you mean

Is this English? Huh, what?

[n00b]

Great post with lots to keep in mind while working with the green wonder.

[Ease]

Good on you stinky........the need for education, exposure, and further enhancement will be justified one day. Looking forward to more ethics......Doin it with ease.

[crystaliscious]

Could you let us know a little more about ethical booby trapping of outdoor grows?

[Shovelhandle]

Could you let us know a little more about ethical booby trapping of outdoor grows?

Crystal, these folks are not active in the forum at this time. Your recent thread covers the question well. Let's get a bump on that one and see what the present crop of members feel about the booby trapping.

[catbuds]

I think it depends on the circumstances. Out in the wide open country, acres of woods, places where people might innocently be hiking or camping. Hell no! Others have a right to be there too. But then again, lets take my property for example. Long & narrow, narrow bordering the road. Back bordering a field with 2 ponds. 7/10 of an acre....FENCED IN on three sides, only open on road frontage. POSTED. Clearly private property with tresspassers NOT welcome. I can't keep a lawn mower, tiller, garden tools & my plants are usually stolen. They even stole my tv antenna! Its always been bad for thieft, but since they put a new scrap yard in 3 miles from me, I can't keep anything made out of metal! House sits close to the road. Being so narrow, you're pretty darned close to the house when you sneak into the back yard. NOBODY goes to the back of my house but thieves. I'm considering booby traps. Not deadly ones. Just twine or wires that will trip them with a bunch of cans or stuff to make a lot of noise when they get tangled up in the shit. Nobody hates a thief as much as me. Never had honest people sneak into the back yard & probably never will. I don't live in town, I live way out in the boonies. So if a thief breaks his leg in my back yard, I'll have no remorse, I'll just yell out my door, 'hey Billy & Gary! Who do you want me to call, John (their father) or the cops?' They're 47 & 50, never had jobs except stealing & freeload off their elderly father. Billys in rehab, Garys in jail..... but they'll be back.
-- So when used properly, booby traps can be your friend! :) :) :)

[catbuds]

I know I just posted, but..... if you plant your grow on gov property, parks or other public areas, & you booby trap it & someone gets hurt, don't you think that just might make the cops search the area & find your grow for sure? Kinda defeates the purpose, don't cha think? Food for thought.

[SamLyle]

For private properties, Is it not enough to just post "Private Property, No Trespassing"?

I once saw a warning on the fence I think it was also in the internet and it says: "Warning:Private Property. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again"
Had a hearty laugh cos I thought it was a joke of sorts. But if it wasn't? Kinda scary indeed.

[SamLyle]

I know I just posted, but..... if you plant your grow on gov property, parks or other public areas, & you booby trap it & someone gets hurt, don't you think that just might make the cops search the area & find your grow for sure? Kinda defeates the purpose, don't cha think? Food for thought.

For private properties, Is it not enough to just post "Private Property, No Trespassing"?

I once saw a warning on the fence I think it was also in the internet and it says: "Warning:Private Property. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again"
Had a hearty laugh cos I thought it was a joke of sorts. But if it wasn't? Kinda scary indeed.

[catbuds]

When it obviously someone's fenced in back yard, you would think a posted sign would be enough, & it SHOULD BE. But... in this case its 2 brothers, one 50 & the other 47-48 who don't work, they steal & freeload & live off their elderly father. Years ago they hung in my group & on payday I'd party everybody at my expense. When I was crushed in an accident becoming disabled, & now living on a sm diability check, I can't afford to party anyone at my expense, not even myself. So since they can't get freebies from me anymore, that makes me the enemy. When caught red handed & confronted, their reply was, I'm a greedy bitch for not 'sharing the wealth', I deserve everything they've done to me, & they said 'what are you gonna do, call the cops, whip our ass?' (along with some other nasty name calling) & they spit on me & threw their beer in my face. Couldnt call the cops, they were taking my plants along with some other personal property. Its a game to them & they call it 'beat the bitch'. Couldn't whip their asses, they're healthy & younger than me, I'm a 60 yr old crippled woman with a cane. They're over 6' & I'm 5'2", so ass whipping is a no go there. So if they get out jail & rehab before I get my harvest in next coming fall, & they get harmed in one of my non-lethal booby traps...... well, they DID say I deserved everything they did to me.....
-- They ARE the only ones going into my fenced in back yard uninvited (& under the cover of night). Like I've said before. Booby traps in public accessible places are inhumane, unethical, & an all around bad thing. Mine are designed to make a LOT of noise, but a leg or ankle could be broken/sprained getting entangled in the trip wire or cord that activates all the noise......& under these circumstances, I would feel no remorse.

[thenewgrow]

When it obviously someone's fenced in back yard, you would think a posted sign would be enough, & it SHOULD BE. But... in this case its 2 brothers, one 50 & the other 47-48 who don't work, they steal & freeload & live off their elderly father. Years ago they hung in my group & on payday I'd party everybody at my expense. When I was crushed in an accident becoming disabled, & now living on a sm diability check, I can't afford to party anyone at my expense, not even myself. So since they can't get freebies from me anymore, that makes me the enemy. When caught red handed & confronted, their reply was, I'm a greedy bitch for not 'sharing the wealth', I deserve everything they've done to me, & they said 'what are you gonna do, call the cops, whip our ass?' (along with some other nasty name calling) & they spit on me & threw their beer in my face. Couldnt call the cops, they were taking my plants along with some other personal property. Its a game to them & they call it 'beat the bitch'. Couldn't whip their asses, they're healthy & younger than me, I'm a 60 yr old crippled woman with a cane. They're over 6' & I'm 5'2", so ass whipping is a no go there. So if they get out jail & rehab before I get my harvest in next coming fall, & they get harmed in one of my non-lethal booby traps...... well, they DID say I deserved everything they did to me.....
-- They ARE the only ones going into my fenced in back yard uninvited (& under the cover of night). Like I've said before. Booby traps in public accessible places are inhumane, unethical, & an all around bad thing. Mine are designed to make a LOT of noise, but a leg or ankle could be broken/sprained getting entangled in the trip wire or cord that activates all the noise......& under these circumstances, I would feel no remorse.

im sorry to read this catbuds :( i fell for you its hard when ppl run you over like that. i try almost the same as you, 1 day 3 of my best friends called me up and said they were close by and asked if I had a little smoke they could get. and I said yes definitely , 3 hours later a car up in the driveway and I go out and locks up because I could see they were the ones who came out of the car and walked into the living room again 3 minutes later I hear one strange noise from the next room and I took my baseball bat in his hand and walked slowly into the other room and there they stand with all my smoke and smashed my window and walked into the road and steal my smoke I screamed at my house mate that we had burglary. and my 3 "friends" attacked me I broke his arm on one of them and after I do not remember much that was one of them struck me with something hard from behind, and I went out like a light , I woke up almost an hour later on the floor inside the room , and my roommate did stand like a boss and hate the 3 guys in the corner. He stood and aimed at them with a gun , i was just like wtf just happend . and he was like thes guys did knock you out bro. and i was looking at thos fools and thinking "wtf" my 3 bedst friends just was trying to steal from me. my room mate was just like lets tire them up 1 after 1 and take 1 at the time to the room next dore and beat the crap out of them. i did say lets tire them up and take them for a ride in their car. and we was driving to my older brother he lives in the woods. when i told him who was trying to roob me. he was freaking out becors i have know them all my life. and they was shitting in their pants it was starting to get dark and we was holding them on the back seat of their own car. they did know when i was driving to my brother it was bad for them. they knew something was wrong. when I had driven them out to my brother. my brother has always been my and their back when we took the city and such.

we let them hand in the car for about 5 hours tied up
and then had a decent game beating. and then we drove out of nowhere and droped themself of.
the only thing they learn from is a big beat down. i have never seen them again. and no police reports.

trust me i know how you fell

[catbuds]

I think thieves deserve what ever happens to them. But I still think its a shame when innocent people get caught up in it by accident. I think the laws & society are too lenient on thieves, especially in districts who have no self defence laws. Around here, if somebody jumps you & you fight back, you're both charged with assault. Our local laws don't see it as you defending yourself, you're as guilty as the person who attacked you. Only one thing will make you exempt..... it has to be obvious to the observers eye that you are physically disabled. Between this & the leniency on thieft, our local laws really do protect the criminals.
-- I thought these asses were my friends for years. Then my Dad died. He left me the house, (needing repairs), & through no fault of his own, a bunch of bills. Both he & my mom had long lingering illnesses before their deaths, so the bills piled up. A few days after the funeral, here come the brothers saying 'share the wealth'. I'm like, 'what wealth?' They say, come on man, we know he left you some money. Ah, the money in the bank goes toward the hospital bills & ballance on the funeral. The only money flowing around here flows out of my pocket & into the hospital, you know, the ballance of the bills. A few days later I came home from work & found I'd been robbed. The house was nearly emptied, EVERYTHING out of my grow room, plants, lights, fans & ALL. Since the grow was gone, I called the cops. They left a crow bar & a couple beer cans behind with their prints on them & all over my bedroom & got three years for 'day time burglary'. Long story I know, but now its all out war with them. They're still dealing out 'pay backs' for me sending them to jail. All I got out of that was the reputation of a 'snitch', so now I can't even buy herb!

[thenewgrow]

thos ppl are to mutch. wtf cant you buy your herb ? becors they roob you. what a shitty dealer. if he cant see you did what you had to do. then he aint the time worh. i hope you can grow your own meds, what you did was not what a "snitch" do. a "snitch" is some one who get cought and take other with him in jail. then he get reduced time.
what you did was only to get your stuff back and your property, i think what you did was thumbs up:thumbsup: !!

i would have payed some big ppl to drive out to this 2 fools and let them know who is the boss you know what i mean :) let this big guys do what they want to do with them ^^ throw them around in their own home ^^"

i did this for a friend for some years back i was like 16 and 1 of my friends was a dealer and 2 guys was behind is payment they was just running from the bill. and i got an offer i couldent refuse, so we did take the hoodies on and did go in that house with 2 baseball bat's, that was crazy. i got scared in that house my friend did lose control at them. and i was starting to say " dude you are gona kill them " stop stop stop dude. stop man . and i needed to say if you aint gona stop now im out and i wont see you again man. then he was like man they owe me allot. "allot was 20 k" and i was like ok but you dont get your money if you kill them man. and today he is sitting in jail he got 4 years for it. he dident "snitch" me. the 2 guys dident know me so they dident get me. he was 1 of my bedst friends. and i learned from him that dont ever let ppl fuck you over. that was 1 of the bedst things i have learned. ps. i dream about this almost every day, it wakes me covered in sweat

you can allways find ppl who wona do the dirty job for you if you just pay the right price. and thos ppl know how to let them know that if they come fuck with you they will get fucked harder then you, i hope you know what i mean :cool:

popo dont do shiit for ppl in my contry only if its like over 10k $ worth of items that got stolen.

[catbuds]

Yeah, but the brothers started the rumor, & in their 'telling', all they did was take what was 'rightfully' theirs. They always took our little group motto of 'share & share alike' way too far. They twisted it to mean share with them, or they take what they want. Never any mention of them sharing in return. But rumors grow & morph, & 20 yrs later, the rumor mill says I stole their shit & when they tried to take it back, I had them busted for breaking & entering. So everything I've ever tried to do to make them leave me alone has blown up in my face.

[thenewgrow]

Yeah, but the brothers started the rumor, & in their 'telling', all they did was take what was 'rightfully' theirs. They always took our little group motto of 'share & share alike' way too far. They twisted it to mean share with them, or they take what they want. Never any mention of them sharing in return. But rumors grow & morph, & 20 yrs later, the rumor mill says I stole their shit & when they tried to take it back, I had them busted for breaking & entering. So everything I've ever tried to do to make them leave me alone has blown up in my face.

dont you know some big guys you always can call if it goes wrong and they come to your home. you need to find some one you can call always if they come back.
some one you know that can give a good beat down. and then tell him that you will offer him cash or something if you call and need help fast. just to protect your self.

i have 2 numbers i can call day and night if something goes wrong or someone roob's me

[catbuds]

You know, this thread is about the evil of booby traps, & how the innocent can end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even tho mine aren't lethal & intended as really loud noise makers, because someone COULD sprain an ankle or break a leg, I had to think it over for several years before I decided to go ahead. For now, they're only in my garage where the camper is that I live in, & the trip wire is only hooked up 10:pm-10:am, but after spring, they will be alover my back yard. But first, a friend made me a rig from an old motion detector light that turns on a cd player rigged to loop (play & rewind) & it plays a BIG pissed off dog barking & growling, that's the first thing that gets triggered when you sneak into my back yard late at night. While I don't agree with lethal/harmful booby traps, under some circumstances (like private property), I CAN understand where they are coming from. Thieves make EVERYONE pay the price for thier crimes.:(

[catbuds]

The only ones I know like that are friends of the brothers & in their back pockets. I'm broke & in the country. No one else like that to be found around here. I just deal the best I can & hope to out live them. Rumor has it that their father has a court order that prevents them from returning to his property when they are released. Time will tell.

[thenewgrow]

i know you think they will come back to you.
and if you feel scared for them to come back, then you need to get a gun and have it in your bed table :) just for protection, if my roommate dident have that gun that day i dont know how i was ending up that day. i have a big knife in my room today and a baseball bat it get me to feel save at night. :) you have to do what you need to do for feel save you know :) it is important to feel safe in her own home my advice is buy a gun and similar to the one place that no one knows but you can quickly get insipid in it if --peace-- :thumbsup:

[tlranger]

What or who is keeping you there. I'll say fool me once, but fool me twice. I always try to think I learned something.

[thenewgrow]

i would never move just becors of 2 fools. then rather get a gun and feel save. and if they come you just pull the gun and say get the hell of my property now, or im gona shot you :) you know ppl dont say no i wont get of your property when you pull the gun . and if they say that they wont. then just shot them in the leg and call the coops