My theory why god doesn't exist

[AlwaysBlazed]

Ok. I grew up being told about santa claus, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, the boogeyman, the sandman, the ever infamous stranger, and of course god. When I slowly came to realization that these were not true around the age of 9 I still believed in god longer, but by 12 I just refused to believe that "god" exists. After all the research we have collected and proven against creationism and how there is NO evidence to prove creationism. People want to remain ignorant and claim it's "faith" and that works for some people, but people who claim they are doing acts of violence because of "god" and people thanking "god" sincerely (even I say "thank god" but I use it as an expression). I am not going to just say there is no evidence, but not only is there no evidence but throughout the past the christian church has proven themselves to be corrupt and selfish. There has never been any evidence that god was real except from individuals saying so. How can you blindly worship somebody who doesn't exist? There does not need to be a higher being for life to exist, it's a complex series of chemical reactions over trillions and quadrillions of years. I'm sorry but I just see people who believe in "god" as ignorant people who are afraid of change. If you need somewhere to turn to for hope and faith turn to your family, prey to yourself, not to a false god. Sorry if this came off somewhat hostile but I really don't see any point why people should continue to believe in god anymore. Back in the time of the birth of judaism word spread slow. People believed in god because that was the only plausable theory as to why we were there.

Every coincidence is not a miracle.

If you want to make a comeback make sure its about the topic and not about bashing my spelling or grammer. I'd like to see what the "faithful" have to say about this.

Don't even get me started on scientology.
"The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion."
- L. Ron Hubbard

[smoke it]

i agree with almost everything youve said here, but i garuntee that within the next 3 posts, someones going tear up everything youve just said. whatever. every man his own

[Infernus]

i couldent agree more. Its all science. Not a world a so called god created. Ignorance is for the weak.

[AlwaysBlazed]

I'm glad I got some replies but im really looking for religious people to reply.

[mrdevious]

I'm glad I got some replies but im really looking for religious people to reply.

Why? They've replied countless times to this same accusation (no god), just look in another thread. All you'll get are incoherent arguments based on fallable logic such as "well how did the universe get so organized? that proves god exists!", or the old classic "you can't disprove he exists, therefor the stance for his existence is just as valid as the stance against his existence".

[harris7]

Well Iâ??m going to point out small errors (not flaws) in your argument. But first Iâ??ll summarize some faithful peoples argument (from this site)
It goes a little something like this:
-God exists
-God says he exists
-God is all good so obviously he cannot lie
-So he exists


anyways, think of this as constructive criticism.
You donâ??t want to feed the laypersons view of science, as their misunderstandings is the main point of exploitation by religious figures



After all the research we have collected and proven against creationism and how there is NO evidence to prove creationism.

Very very few things every receive â??proofâ?�. The only way to prove god exists is if he appears and says â??I existâ?�. This kind of absolute proof isnâ??t very prevalent in science. In science we find proof by: The Principle of Converging Evidence.

Anyways, try to talk about support for theories not proof for theories. Creationism has some supporting evidence but not much. This evidence was satisfactory before a competing theory (evolution) appeared which has significantly more support.
Something becomes Fact when it has so much support it is very unlikely that anything else could explain all the data.


I am not going to just say there is no evidence, but not only is there no evidence but throughout the past the christian church has proven themselves to be corrupt and selfish.

Try not to use the word evidence, as it isnâ??t well defined. Use supporting data. Many people draw a causal connection between evidence and proof

There has never been any evidence that god was real except from individuals saying so.
come on man, I just told you not to use evidence like 2 minuets ago. j/k


There does not need to be a higher being for life to exist, it's a complex series of chemical reactions over trillions and quadrillions of years.
System, not series. Series implies randomness, system implies order

Sorry if this came off somewhat hostile but I really don't see any point why people should continue to believe in god anymore.
Honestly man I believe classically religious people to be delusional. Theyâ??ve created a story that answers so many hard questions and proposes such a great thing, that weâ??ve tricked ourselves into believing it. Itâ??s kind of impressive

People believed in god because that was the only plausible theory as to why we were there.
Bingo, Thatâ??s actually Platoâ??s argument. It was valid until evolution was proposed.

Every coincidence is not a miracle.
Are any. Not IMO

[Polymirize]

Way to go Harris. Way to teach alwaysblazed how to post exactly like you. Like clones or robots, but at least you don't have any silly religious beliefs I guess.

As for this though:

System, not series. Series implies randomness, system implies order


Why not series? Unless you secretly believe in some sort of universal order.
Which I gotta say, is not sufficiently supported by the evidence...

[halospaceboy]

maby god is a higher power, anyone see the program (ufo's in the bible)

[harris7]

Way to go Harris. Way to teach alwaysblazed how to post exactly like you. Like clones or robots, but at least you don't have any silly religious beliefs I guess.
As for this though:
Why not series? Unless you secretly believe in some sort of universal order.
Which I gotta say, is not sufficiently supported by the evidence...

Personally I would prefer clones. as i have really nice hair and there really should be more of it around

Oh trust me I have some crazy beliefs, nothing as crazy as a supernatural god, but still out there.

I know and despise the tactics used to confuse people and Iâ??m just trying to show other likeminded individuals some of the things they capitalize on.
Anyways iâ??m pretty sure A/B isnâ??t going to find the reply he is looking for

Hmm well I consider Evolution to by a complex system. But I guess you are right it could also be a series. As in math series are very ordered. Itâ??s just to me the connotation of the word implies much less order. Itâ??s just semantics

[mrdevious]

It's an old classic because it's a bloody good argument. No one can disprove it.

Basically it comes down to one fact; If God exists for one person, then he exists for that person. And if God does not exist for another person, then he does not exist for that person.

God can't be proven, and he can't be disproven. It's impossible. It's purely down to personal preference. Simple as that.

LOL, it's a bloody TERRIBLE argument! It is impossible to disprove anything that doesn't exist, because proof only exists in relation to something else that exists. If your logic is true, that the inability to disprove god puts him on equal grounds to the inability to prove god, then lets expand: There's a microscopic teacup floating around some sun somewhere in the galaxy, there are invisible jellyfish that fly around the universe playing metallica on their flute, there's a god named Thor who's a blacksmith and makes weapons for the other gods. Can you disprove any of these? If not, then all these theories and the millions of other ones I can conjure up are now equally valid and as likely as god or no god. But why don't we consider the invisible flute-blowing metalhead jellyfish just as likely? Because the inability to disprove them means nothing more than anything else the imagination can create, it's up to you to prove the existence, not for me to prove the non-existence.

[smoke it]

God can't be proven, and he can't be disproven. It's impossible. It's purely down to personal preference. Simple as that.

^^^^this sums it up. thats it.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

god lives with santa claus and their son and daughter the easter bunny and tooth fairy.

they all exist in the same place: our mindscapes.

[Polymirize]

You completely missed the point :thumbsup: Your argument was hilarious though, good effort.

I think you completely missed his point.

I'm sure you're free to think whatever you want about God, the toothfairy, aliens, justice, or santa claus.
But the argument sucks. It can supposedly justify anything, which means its worthless as an argument goes. Its been around forever because most people can't apply the most simple forms of logic to deduce this fact and therefore think they're really onto something.

I agree with MrD about the argument. You can think whatever you want about metaphysical entities, I don't know anything about any of those. I do know about arguments, and logic, and the rules of inference however; and in this case, you're clearly wrong. That is in fact a terrible argument.

[mrdevious]

You completely missed the point :thumbsup: Your argument was hilarious though, good effort.

Yep, it's easier to call an argument "hilarious" than actually counter it. Though I still still didn't miss the point, I just chose one of the two points you made:



It's an old classic because it's a bloody good argument. No one can disprove it.

This, right here, is what prompted my response. It's a terrible argument and I made my case against it, and in the true creationist spirit you dismissed it and moved on without another thought. Considering you said "it's a bloody good argument" in direct response to my description of it, the counter-argument is perfectly relavent.


Basically it comes down to one fact; If God exists for one person, then he exists for that person. And if God does not exist for another person, then he does not exist for that person.

God can't be proven, and he can't be disproven. It's impossible. It's purely down to personal preference. Simple as that.

Yes yes, "personal truths". That is the point you mistakenly thought I "missed", but it's an irrelevant one nontheless since such logic gives credence to every delusional schizophrenic in a mental institution. Of course isn't that the most powerfull creationist tool, to declare that just believing something strongly enough makes it a "truth" no matter what it is, no matter what logic it's based on. But I'll let Polymerizes well-constructed argument take it from there.

[harris7]

Personally i need a reason for a belief. Otherwise i would belief there was a teacup orbiting the sun, that jellyfish and so many other things.

United if you want to believe god exists without any reason, well ok. But you wont believe a jellyfish is playing music from a flue around mars, then your selecting your beliefs based on something.
I think your selecting the ones that make you feel good, like god. If a jellyfish made you feel good would you believe in it.

[divestoned]

god is for weak minded followers afraid of they're own mortality.

[Polymirize]

god is for weak minded followers afraid of they're own mortality.

So are ad hominem arguments like that one...

[Cautios]

Just wanted to say that maybe you are looking at "God" from the wrong point of view. Perhaps "God" is not an physical incarnation, or even a spectral incarnation. Perhaps "God" just is. People can perform scientific studies to prove anything. Even that you shit ice-cream.

[Jack the Tripper]

throughout the past the christian church has proven themselves to be corrupt and selfish.

There has never been any evidence that god was real except from individuals saying so.

How can you blindly worship somebody who doesn't exist? There does not need to be a higher being for life to exist, it's a complex series of chemical reactions over trillions and quadrillions of years. I'm sorry but I just see people who believe in "god" as ignorant people who are afraid of change.

I've singled out the three parts of your post that I find most ludicrous.

The first one is off topic. You start out by saying you don't belive in God. Fair enough. Then, all of a sudden you start bashing Christianity. Where did that come from? What makes you think that Christianity is synnonymous with believing in God? I believe in God, and I'm not Christian. I'm not even religious. Despite that, there are many more monotheistic religions than just Christianity. What about Judaism, or Hinduism? There's a big difference between corruption in Christianity and God not existing.

On to your next bit. "There has never been any evidence that god was real except from individuals saying so." ... Are you suggesting that there IS evidence saying God DOES NOT exist? You contradict yourself. You ask people not to use the argument "you can't prove he doesn't exist" but you use the exact inverse of that yourself.

Now, the last bit... and wow. I don't want to drag on, so I'll try to keep this simple: whats more likely? "a complex series of chemical reactions over trillions and quadrillions of years", or a higher power Creating life? Are you saying you think that the birth of the human race was a coincidence? Because thats a very very complex coincidence.

Lastly... you call people who believe in God ignorant. How so? It's by far the most logical explanation for the existence of everything. So ask yourself this; which of the following is the easy route? To believe that you yourself are the be-all and the end-all, or that someone else is? Believing in God requires an open mind, but you'd prefer to claim that nonspecific scientific evidence (of which there is none) makes you correct.

Your warning about getting started on scientology amused me. Since your first post was pretty flimsy, maybe you should.

[murkem]

science only explains gods creation. if you take god out of the creation theory then u have the scientific theory and if you put god in the scientific theory then you have the creation theory. the bible is made up of people born and dead at differrent times talking about the same things and most never met each other. the books in the bible werent written in the same year or all at once its composed of different authors that never met each other and some how leads to the same begining and conclusion through the book. some authors made prophecies of events that wouldnt happen till well after they were dead and gone. the death of kings the invasions of lands slavery that couldnt have been predicted except by someone with an outlook on the future. all of these predictions have came true and are verified by the same history books you were taught out of in school, and some that are as of now unfolding. you cant disprove something you have no knowledge of, real knowledge, not being religious or claiming a faith but the study of where and how these stories came about and if they have validity through other historical records.if you know all about one side of the argument but know nothing of the other nothing u say makes any sense because all u know is what you know. a baseball coach cant teach a soccer player how to kick better and vise versa, but if he has a backround in soccer and baseball his two cents would be worth something of value. everything is woven together somehow in ways we cant understand we can only show how there woven not who wove it or why it just is. thats why there are religons, people that have experienced for themselves some kind of order and feel that there must be something more. regardless if it be buddah god or whoever, there is no begining and no end it just is and gos on.

[mrdevious]

Just wanted to say that maybe you are looking at "God" from the wrong point of view. Perhaps "God" is not an physical incarnation, or even a spectral incarnation. Perhaps "God" just is. People can perform scientific studies to prove anything. Even that you shit ice-cream.

Well no, I don't agree that scientific studies can prove you shit icecream, unless the scientists cheat by not following the scientific method and outright lying. But yes, you have some good idea's on god if I'm interpreting that right. My personal belief is that we form our own reality. After all, what aspect of reality has relevance to you outside your own perceptions? If a person truly believes in god, than their perception of him and the effect on the individual, is the same whether or not god exists. Therefor, I would posit that god's relevance remains the same in someones life regardless of his external existence. My problem with god arises when people insist that he is inseparably part of our lives whether we like it or not, and we will be rewarded, punished, and affected in accordance with one interpretation of him.

[Pass That Shit]

It's not that complicated. We are the only humans that exist is this entire whatever that we live in. Not only us, but animals don't exist anywhere outside of earth. Plants and trees don't live anywhere else but on earth. Everything that exists on earth ONLY exists on earth. Does it rain anywhere else besides earth? Are there bodies of water oustide of earth? So for all of you that keep asking for proof I say, LOOK AROUND. Are we not here? So why is everything only on earth? It's not that there's no proof (cause there's plenty) it's that you don't believe the proof. There is no fact that will convince an unbeliever unless God works in the heart.
It's silly to continue to debate evolution vs God, cause this debate is heavily one sided.


"Let everything that hath breath Praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD."

[mrdevious]

It's not that complicated. We are the only humans that exist is this entire whatever that we live in. Not only us, but animals don't exist anywhere outside of earth. Plants and trees don't live anywhere else but on earth. Everything that exists on earth ONLY exists on earth. Does it rain anywhere else besides earth? Are there bodies of water oustide of earth? So for all of you that keep asking for proof I say, LOOK AROUND. Are we not here? So why is everything only on earth? It's not that there's no proof (cause there's plenty) it's that you don't believe the proof.

There's a considerably more obvious answer here that you would be able to see if you didn't already decide to only consider what supports your presuppositions. There are trillions, upon potentially infinite planets in this universe. There will inevitably be millions of different environments, different distances from their suns, for the trillions of planets. Of these millions and millions of types of environments, you innevitably get some rare ones that are ideal to support life. That doesn't mean Earth is the only one, it means it is a rare type because it's only one in a million of the infinite planets that have life-supporting conditions.
To believe the universe is created to support life is incredibly egocentric. Life exists because the infinite variations in planet types will innevitably have a unique substance that grows in complexity due to certain action mechanisms. There could be aspects of existence in planets in other galaxies, that are just as complex as life or even consciousness, but not life at all; just something we can't comprehend. Though life is innevitably one of the most complex aspects in the universe. There has to be one.

Not to mention, I don't know how you can claim to know that there are no other life supporting planets when we've only closely observed 26 thus far (last time I heard, which was about 2 years ago).


There is no fact that will convince an unbeliever unless God works in the heart.

Can you not see the obvious euphamism this train of thought really is? You cannot percieve the proof of god, unless you already believe in him. You're saying that one should make a completely unobjective decision by already assuming that god exists before interpreting the evidence.

1. god exists.
2. lets take a look at the evidence.
3. the evidence points to god because I've already decided he exists.
4. therefor he exists.

I don't understant why you can't grasp the concept of interpreting everything to match up with your presuppositions, and why that doesn't work.

[Polymirize]

if you know all about one side of the argument but know nothing of the other nothing u say makes any sense because all u know is what you know. a baseball coach cant teach a soccer player how to kick better and vise versa, but if he has a backround in soccer and baseball his two cents would be worth something of value. everything is woven together somehow in ways we cant understand we can only show how there woven not who wove it or why it just is. thats why there are religons, people that have experienced for themselves some kind of order and feel that there must be something more. regardless if it be buddah god or whoever, there is no begining and no end it just is and gos on.

Likewise, if you have a poor grasp of grammer, you just end up looking like a fucking idiot. Regardless of the content you actually attempt to cover. Until then, just some highlights:

"... all you know is what you know" -- as opposed to?

"... his two cents would be worth something value." -- of course it's valued, at two cents.

"there is no beginning and no end it just is and goes on." -- Ah yes, the old "the universe is a run-on sentence" theory. How I long for punctuation...

[monkeyvato]

i guess the whole world is wrong and you guys are right!?!? Nonsens, GOD exists
its just your image of God that is wrong. i think you get a kick by insulting religion and it makes you feel secure for the moment. You have probably never studied theologi. God made herb. Bless him.:rasta:

[MastaChronic]

i guess the whole world is wrong and you guys are right!?!? Nonsens, GOD exists
its just your image of God that is wrong. i think you get a kick by insulting religion and it makes you feel secure for the moment. You have probably never studied theologi. God made herb. Bless him.:rasta:

hmmm, prove god exists.
i dont have to prove that he doesnt. the burden of proof falls onto the believers shoulders.
he may exist for you....but then again.....if somebody called you up and told you that they had a quarter pound and they wanted to give you a holf o if you went over there. you go over there and find out there is no quarter pound.
for that brief instance, that quarter pound was real to you.
do you get what im saying?

[midlifecrisis]

LIL, it's a bloody TERRIBLE argument! It is impossible to disprove anything that doesn't exist, because proof only exists in relation to something else that exists. If your logic is true, that the inability to disprove god puts him on equal grounds to the inability to prove god, then lets expand: There's a microscopic teacup floating around some sun somewhere in the galaxy, there are invisible jellyfish that fly around the universe playing metallic on their flute, there's a god named Thor who's a blacksmith and makes weapons for the other gods. Can you disprove any of these? If not, then all these theories and the millions of other ones I can conjure up are now equally valid and as likely as god or no god. But why don't we consider the invisible flute-blowing metalhead jellyfish just as likely? Because the inability to disprove them means nothing more than anything else the imagination can create, it's up to you to prove the existence, not for me to prove the non-existence.


DUMB ASS!!!! The jelly fish would obviously be playing Jethro Tull!!!

And it can be proven!!!! All you need is a 1974 RCA television, 500' of tinfoil, and a vacuum cleaner.

[Cautios]

Meh. I think that I agree with you mrdevious. My belief is that you make your own afterlife. Whatever you believe comes to pass, but it does not influence the fate of anyone besides you. Pretty open ended, yes -- and I have my own beliefs of what happens, but of course those are personal and there is no reason for me to list them.

[Garden Knowm]

God does not exisit, you are CORRECT..

BUT there is something that you can become aware of... Something beyond name....

Imagine you are trapped in a BOOK... a simple book... and YOU are stuck on the same 150 pages for 5,000 life times... and you don't even KNOW that you are stuck in this BOOK..... silly YOU, YOU think THIS BOOK is actually the entire WORLD.... and then one day you are set free from this book... set free from the same 150 pages... you are NOW free....

The only way to be set free is to consciously Awaken.. Consciously evolve...

The first step is to get a glimmer.. a taste of being awake. being free from the mind... ONCE you awake, you will not say things like.. THERE IS NO GOD because there is no evidence...

iloveyou

Vipassana can help you get a peak... or you can just stay in YOUR book... and slewep for another 5,000 life times...

Beware.. once you awaken YOU will know... and the KNOWERS are very very few... YOU are lucky to even MEET one KNOWER in your entire life time..

iloveyou

[mrdevious]

You can't prove or disprove God.

No offense or anything Billionfold, but haven't you noticed that this same argument, in fact this exact same sentence, has been stated about a thousand times in every thread related to this subject? And every time someone has shown why this is immensely logically flawed, nobody provides a response and then it gets used again... and again and again and again and again......

This is the difference I've been seeing in this debate. When somebody poses an argument in support of god, we can always counter it. When an atheist makes a perfectly logical argument against him, there's no response and the opponent then uses their already-debunked argument yet again later, without providing a reasonable explanation as to why the debunking argument is supposedly invalid.

[murkem]

Likewise, if you have a poor grasp of grammer, you just end up looking like a fucking idiot. Regardless of the content you actually attempt to cover. Until then, just some highlights:

"... all you know is what you know" -- as opposed to?

"... his two cents would be worth something value." -- of course it's valued, at two cents.

"there is no beginning and no end it just is and goes on." -- Ah yes, the old "the universe is a run-on sentence" theory. How I long for punctuation...

as opposed two having studied an athiest point of view and a religious persons point of view.

it would be worth something because he knows what hes talking about

ah yes ur a dik hed u understood that rite fuk gramer i aint spell shyt right but you know i caled u a DICK HEAD i got gutter gramar biotch

[harris7]

The first one is off topic. You start out by saying you don't belive in God. Fair enough. Then, all of a sudden you start bashing Christianity. Where did that come from? What makes you think that Christianity is synnonymous with believing in God? There's a big difference between corruption in Christianity and God not existing.
It is because we have defined God to be the God they talk about in Christianity.
No one cares if you have some personal special meaning of the unknown which you call god. That isnâ??t what we are talking about! WE are talking about Christianity and their god. That is why we can bash Christianity and it had an effect on the concept of god!

On to your next bit. "There has never been any evidence that god was real except from individuals saying so." ... Are you suggesting that there IS evidence saying God DOES NOT exist? You contradict yourself. You ask people not to use the argument "you can't prove he doesn't exist" but you use the exact inverse of that yourself..

This last bit is of serious importance. Which it seems very few religious people can grasp.

The only claim an atheist is making is something like:
â??the world is how we see itâ?� -this argument has lots of evidence
An atheist isnâ??t saying:
â??god doesnâ??t existâ?�
Because thatâ??s obvious as we donâ??t observe it. If you think thatâ??s what an atheist believes then we have a whole bunch of other beliefs too
â??teacups donâ??t orbit the sunâ?�
â??jellyfish donâ??t surf around the galaxyâ?�
â?¦
-Believing in god is a believe. It is a statement about the nature of reality.
Atheists dont possess this belief.
Lacking a belief doesnâ??t need an argument.
Having a belief needs an argument!

So Iâ??m living my life and someone comes over and says â??god existsâ?�
I go, â??why do you think thatâ?�

This person is asking me to accept a new belief. To accept a belief one needs justification.

We donâ??t need a reason Not to change our mind. We need reason to change it!
Everyone starts off as an atheist

[Polymirize]

Beware.. once you awaken YOU will know... and the KNOWERS are very very few... YOU are lucky to even MEET one KNOWER in your entire life time..


Yeah... do you know any? 'cause that might really speed this conversation up...

Something about your post just sends the slogan "self-liberate even the antidote" echoing through my head...

...

And murky, the main point being that I found your first post almost impossible to understand. Its possible you said some brilliant things in it that might even add to the overall discussion, but who would ever know? Why force others to interpret you unnecessarily if you're actually capable of greater clarity?
I mean, what are you some kind of idiot?

[da highest]

I am not religious. I agree creationists are foolish. But the bibile does not have to be taken literallly. Some christians believe that god created evolution. The fact that there are 2 genesis stories in the bible means logically that you can not take one literally and the other one not believe in. Perhaps they reflect what humans are really like, when eve gets temptated to eat apple just like we sometimes get temptated to do things we know we shouldn't in life.

[Wicked Rebel]

I honestly don't believe in God. I am more of a show me and I'll believe type of person. I believe more in that God isn't a higher being, but an inner light or idea that everyone lives by and looks up to. I think religion is stupid. If you are a christian, then muslims believe that you are going to hell because you don't believe in their God and vice versa. Why do you need to give money to a church for it to survive? If God did exist, then why would He let a church fail so less people wouldn't be able to go and worship Him? I think that the Catholic Church is one of the most corrupt orginizations in the history of the world and that has been proven time and time again. I also think that religion is a governments way of keeping order and stability in society. Why would God make laws of what we can and can't do? To go to heaven? Only God and yourself know what type of person you are, good or evil, so why do you need to live by laws to prove you are good? Even the pope has impure thoughts, so is he going to hell? The catholic church says live by the God's laws and you'll live in heaven for eternity. Hitler could have lived his religous life just the way his church told him to, so would that mean he's good? Also, most of the bible was written years after everything happened which means that all of the stories were second hand and exaggerated. Do I believe that Jesus existed? Yes. Do I believe that he did most of the things the bible says? No. I believe that Jesus was a great religious leader that did great things, but without all the hocus pocus. Why would God need magic to make people believe?

[thCA livin]

IF you gather 10 of the most intellectual people out of any College/University class and tell them all but one to leave the classroom and tell that one person a small story and later tell that person to tell the exact same story to another student in private and repeat this sequence i guarantee the story will not be the same.
(there are many studies that have been done for this and will back whatever i say up with evidence of such)
So my OPINION is that there is no such thing as a true Bible and therefore whats left for me to think?

That being said, the populations mindset has already been trained to what they now think is reality. Therefore there is no point or arguing the subject further. There will always be that one person who will disagree. its life..
Enjoy your green and be as happy as you wanna be in life haha

[Gatekeeper777]

God does not exisit, you are CORRECT..

BUT there is something that you can become aware of... Something beyond name....

Imagine you are trapped in a BOOK... a simple book... and YOU are stuck on the same 150 pages for 5,000 life times... and you don't even KNOW that you are stuck in this BOOK..... silly YOU, YOU think THIS BOOK is actually the entire WORLD.... and then one day you are set free from this book... set free from the same 150 pages... you are NOW free....

The only way to be set free is to consciously Awaken.. Consciously evolve...

The first step is to get a glimmer.. a taste of being awake. being free from the mind... ONCE you awake, you will not say things like.. THERE IS NO GOD because there is no evidence...

iloveyou

Vipassana can help you get a peak... or you can just stay in YOUR book... and slewep for another 5,000 life times...

Beware.. once you awaken YOU will know... and the KNOWERS are very very few... YOU are lucky to even MEET one KNOWER in your entire life time..

iloveyou

I have heard this and have pondered it.
But as for me There is NO GOD. There are 100 billion known galaxies in th universe. Each galaxy having appoxamately 400 billion stars on them .
thats alot of stars.
many othe those stars may have planets around one. a few might have life on them.
even fewer yet intelligent life, and on one a species thats so insignificant and scared to be alone and ignorant about the universe and the unknown they created a protector or a heavenly father to watch over them.
Man created god. the egg came before the chicken,(as was the bird in the egg was a mutant ie: a chicken. so the egg came first and hatchen a chicken.
then to hide his ignorance man created GOD.
once you realize this then you will know . your about as important in the universe as fly shit on a window seel.

[Pass That Shit]

So Iâ??m living my life and someone comes over and says â??god existsâ?�
I go, â??why do you think thatâ?�

Because you and I are here talking about him. Tell me of another non-existing character that people are always talking about?
I know one, Santa Claus. :S2:

__________________________________________________ ____________________________


"IF you gather 10 of the most intellectual people out of any College/University class and tell them all but one to leave the classroom and tell that one person a small story and later tell that person to tell the exact same story to another student in private and repeat this sequence i guarantee the story will not be the same. (there are many studies that have been done for this and will back whatever i say up with evidence of such)So my OPINION is that there is no such thing as a true Bible and therefore whats left for me to think?

That being said, the populations mindset has already been trained to what they now think is reality. Therefore there is no point or arguing the subject further. There will always be that one person who will disagree. its life..
Enjoy your green and be as happy as you wanna be in life haha"

I'm that person. :S5:
It's about faith. I believe that God wrote the bible through man. The bible was not given in every language. It was given to us in Hebrew and Greek.We follow his original word. There is no passing around and changing of his word. The only thing that man has done is translate it into all the languages. I believe that his word is the same in every language. Even though transaltions are different words, they all same the same thing. The gospel is preached to all. Organized religions don't follow the word of God. Religion is Satan working at his best. Ever heard of wolves dressed in sheep clothing?

[MinusRyan]

Google "Near Death Experiences".
or
NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE RESEARCH FOUNDATION (NDERF) (http://www.nderf.org/) (thousands of people explaining their NDE in bold detail)

God probably exists because so many people say the exact same thing for years. The real research is to examine the people who have passed on and came back to life. Once you die your physical conscience of the brain stops, leaving behind 'whatever' is left.

Most say, "I all-of-a-sudden felt my Spirit leave my body, entering a tunneled vortex, at the end was a Brilliant white light. They are without a body traveling at super sonic speed towards the white light." At the end of the Tunnel they meet a 'being' of some kind be it God, or a passed on relative to greet them.

[GHoSToKeR]

I have a theory why god doesn't exist... meh, it's more of a hunch.

[donraj00]

I completely agreed with you. Except on one point, you didn't defend your
argument! ("why god doesn't exist") Religions most likely are wrong by any
logical standard, but that is all you said. I say it is more likely there is a god
there there is not, but not by any definition anyone could imagine. Religion,
specifically, is the least likely to explain who the real god is. Though you made
some good points, otherwise irrelevant :P

[SmokeyPoopers]

dude God exists...thats why we exist

[donraj00]

Hey SmokeyPoopers! I'm glad your genius intellect was allowed to grace us
and contribute to this conversation! You have changed my life, I will
now sin today and repent tommorow! As they say... Love

[donraj00]

Oh and if you can't see the sarcasm on my earlier post, I do not agree with
what you said...

You blatantly claim all christians and god believers are ignorant, and your
belief is beat-all truth. You kind of beat your own logic when you say those
people aren't allowed to make those kinds of judgements based on ignorant
rationale, but you do the same, with no backing.

[donraj00]

SOME OF YOU PEOPLE FUCKING PISS ME OFF!
LOOK I'M YELLING AND I'M OVER A 1000 YEARS OLD, I MUST BE TRUE!
I SAY I'M TRUE SO I AM! I MADE YOU BITCH!

Some of you people fucking piss me off!

Yes, that's my perception and I think most of you people are stupid.
Want to fight about it? Go fuck yourself. KTHXBAI

I'd like to prove that there are some absolute truths, but that is pretty
much impossible with everyones perceptions. Especially since my belief
that is is figuratively possible to prove that there is absolute truths.

Such as; in our universe, 2 + 2 = 4. This god or creation whatever guy says
over here, Jesus had 2 fishes and a couple pieces of bread, and he fed
hundreds of people with it (in other words, math may not apply).

BLAH BLAH BLAH shutup no one cares about mine or your believes, unless
we believe in the same thing then we relish in each other's sexiness. I will
embrace death, and not exisiting is not scary to me :D If that is very well
what is to happen or not? Hmph.. Life is a mystery.

[Garden Knowm]

you first must define GOD before you can say weather god exists.. and by defining god.. one can only call it the UNKNOWN...

and therefore god does exist...

But let us take this one step further...

is there something that can NOT be KNOWN because one does not have the awareness CULTIVATED to be aware that ONE does not KNOW...

or more simply put.. there are things that YOU don't know that YOU don't know

Cultivate Awareness by meditation.. a non- reactive STATE...

watch your mind..

iloveyou

when one becomes still and stills the mind and becomes aware of THE world with ALL of ones being.. then GOD will enter the world through YOU...

iloveyou


this is the greatest gift you can give the world

[Polymirize]

there are things that YOU don't know that YOU don't know

How do you know that?

or, is it just like, a really strong hunch?

[sharer6969]

Alwaysblazed,


Ok. I grew up being told about santa claus, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, the boogeyman, the sandman, the ever infamous stranger, and of course god. When I slowly came to realization that these were not true around the age of 9 I still believed in god longer, but by 12 I just refused to believe that "god" exists.

That's part of the reason why I don't think people should lie to their children, even if they think it's "cute" (the whole Santa business) - the kids might just start suspecting everything you tell them is a lie, which isn't good (and likely isn't true.)


. After all the research we have collected and proven against creationism and how there is NO evidence to prove creationism. People want to remain ignorant and claim it's "faith" and that works for some people, but people who claim they are doing acts of violence because of "god" and people thanking "god" sincerely (even I say "thank god" but I use it as an expression).

Ummm, who needs to be a "creationist" to accept the existence of God?

It's been my experience that when people say "I don't believe in God", if I were to ask them just what they think "God is", I'd be moved to say "I don't believe in that 'God' either."


I am not going to just say there is no evidence, but not only is there no evidence but throughout the past the christian church has proven themselves to be corrupt and selfish.

Anh, that's true of anything human beings are involved in, not just religion. That's the real burn though - for whatever reason people get very unforgiving when it involves religion. By that way of thinking, I should be against cannabis decriminalization (which of course I'm not) because of dishonest smokers and other assorted shady characters who share my fondness for smoke (but who otherwise I wouldn't trust any further than I could throw them.)


There has never been any evidence that god was real except from individuals saying so.

I think what one means by "God" has to be defined first, before one can speak of "evidence" (or a lack of it.)


How can you blindly worship somebody who doesn't exist?

Yes, how could they? :)


There does not need to be a higher being for life to exist, it's a complex series of chemical reactions over trillions and quadrillions of years.

That sounds like a very superficial understanding of what God "is" though. I'm not saying you're a foolish or superficial person, but I do think part of the difficulty you're having understanding religious belief is that you're essentially reducing it to "explaining what physics cannot explain" - as if God were some kind of tinkerer, Who micromanages things in the way a human being would.


I'm sorry but I just see people who believe in "god" as ignorant people who are afraid of change.

I'm sure a lot of them are. But I don't see how that's a failing unique to religious people. Once again, it seems you're unintentionally holding "religious people" to a different set of standards than "other folks."


If you need somewhere to turn to for hope and faith turn to your family, prey to yourself, not to a false god. Sorry if this came off somewhat hostile but I really don't see any point why people should continue to believe in god anymore. Back in the time of the birth of judaism word spread slow. People believed in god because that was the only plausable theory as to why we were there.

I don't think you're considering the matter deeply enough. If your subject (what you're deeming "God") is basically just a glorified human being (qualitatively the same, just "more powerful"), then of course you're going to remain skeptical, and rightly so.


Every coincidence is not a miracle.

The problem of course is as to why anyone should believe there is such a thing as coincidence to begin with, at least in so far as it implies something blind and random. This universe, as best as we can tell, is a closed system which operates according to some interesting rules - I don't see anything blind or random about that in the least.

[sharer6969]

mrdevious,


Why? They've replied countless times to this same accusation (no god), just look in another thread. All you'll get are incoherent arguments based on fallable logic such as "well how did the universe get so organized? that proves god exists!", or the old classic "you can't disprove he exists, therefor the stance for his existence is just as valid as the stance against his existence".

While it's true you can't prove a negative, this is a very poor argument. Anyone can assert anything and say "disprove it"...it's neither fair nor particularly persuasive. After all I can say "hobgoblins exist, I say so - and you can't disprove this." Well, I guess that's true, but that still gives me no positive reason to believe "hobgoblins exist" either.

While the intricacies of the universe do point in the right direction, it all goes a little deeper than many (including many religious folks) usually understand. The very fact that we live in an intelligable universe, not necessarily it's details, is what really begs the question.

I still insist too many people have something very tacky and silly in mind when they speak of their reasons for "not believing in God." And given what they're very often calling "God", I'd have to say I don't believe in that either.

[sharer6969]

god lives with santa claus and their son and daughter the easter bunny and tooth fairy.

they all exist in the same place: our mindscapes.

True, but only in so far as everything subjective to our perspective only exists as a phantasm "in the mind." On a rational level at least, we have no direct encounter with the world around us - it's all a bunch of data which gets picked up by our five senses, and then gets filtered and recombined in "the mind's eye." Indeed, it would also seem to be the case that there is alot that goes on around us which for various reasons we are totally oblivious to - there are types of sound, spectrums of light (and I am willing to bet far more than this) which simply is "off the radar" - not because it's not "there", but simply because we don't have the physical ability to perceive it.

So, even if I were to meet any of the lovely posters here "in person", the truth of the matter is my entire experience of them could be cynically dismissed as a "head trip", and it'd be pretty damned hard to actually prove otherwise.

Ultimately, we can only go with the proponderance of evidence and hold onto that which is internally coherent. It's from that perspective, at least on an intellectual level, that I find atheism not only a disastisfying answer, but an utterly impossible one - atheism to my way of thinking would be a negation of existence, period (which the experience of me sitting here writing this posting would seem to indicate is an incorrect perspective.) :)

[sharer6969]

hmmm, prove god exists.

Umm, prove I exist. :)

Of course, you'd be reasonable if you said...

- there are some postings authored by this "sharer" person.
- the way one posts is by having an account
- I have an account, and as far as I know I'm real
- it would seem the same is true for this "other person" too.

That would be a pretty reasonable inference. Of course, that could be all wrong - common sense, and what appears obvious could be all wrong.

But would that be a reasonable position? Were one a betting man, would that be a good bet to take?

It's much the same thing with "God." Yes, I could be cynical and feign some kind of agnosticism - but who is actually prepared to be consistently agnostic? Why does the subject of God and religion somehow get "special treatment" - why do people only have these kind of existential crises when it pertains to God? Why don't they wake up denying anything that either reason or the senses can tell them?

It seems like people are all too willing to live like mad-men only when it comes to religion. With everything else that effects their lives, they'll generally be more reasonable.

[gornik]

It doesn't make any difference what you believe. You'll find out soon enough when you're dead and buried, one way or another. I have no idea how old you are, but those are the type of limp philosophical views that are generally held by young and very unenlightened people. Somewhere in the course of your journey you will call on some "higher power" to save your sorry ass. That day obviously hasn't come yet. But it will, if you live long enough. :cool:

[Gatekeeper777]

Somewhere in the course of your journey you will call on some "higher power" to save your sorry ass. That day obviously hasn't come yet. But it will, if you live long enough. :cool:

I am 38 I call apon a higher power to save my sorry ass evry day.

This is what i say.
Oh blessed Mary jane come into my body and fill my soul full of rightousness, enlighten me with your goodness, and fill my lungs full of your rich mothers milk so that I may make it throough another day that mankind has beset apon me,
AMEN

[Garden Knowm]

How do you know that?

or, is it just like, a really strong hunch?

ahahahah nice POLY.. very nice..

iloveyou

When ONE surrenders, one can become aware of the UNKNOWN...

But please don't let me represent "surrendering" as actually DOING something...

cause their is nothing one can do to become Aware... it is actually the opposite...

DOING NOTHING....
can ONE do NOTHING...
YES..

iloveyou

surrender - is a deep YES to WHAT IS... an acceptance of IS....


I am pointing .. at it... IT is up to ONE to become aware of it...

[Garden Knowm]

It doesn't make any difference what you believe. Somewhere in the course of your journey you will call on some "higher power" to save your sorry ass. That day obviously hasn't come yet. But it will, if you live long enough. :cool:

NICE... very NICE.. iloveyou....

And as far as believing.. IT does not matter because .. all beliefs are fleeting.. they come and go.. as do all mind based thoughts...

BUT awareness.. awareness is something else... and awareness does MATTER...

iloveyou