Why do you believe?

[harris7]

Why do you believe?

I am yet to hear any logical reasons to believe in god. From anyone on here.

So Why do you believe. ?

I know why I think you believe.
(parents enforcing beliefs on you when you are an impressionable child)
(or, you just like it better, and there are others)


If you accept that there is no support for your belief, why believe?

If you believe there is support (observational or logical) I would really like to hear it.

But please donâ??t send me to a website, or copy a paragraph (do cite it if you can)
But if you cannot explain it in your own words, then you donâ??t understand it and then your not really basing your beliefs on it.

I believe that a lot of believers support their belief by the assumption that there is arguments or some form of support.

[getcrunk]

by the fact that no one has responded to this means that everyone here is an atheist/agnostic or really can't give logical reason to any sort of religion.

[mrdevious]

by the fact that no one has responded to this means that everyone here is an atheist/agnostic or really can't give logical reason to any sort of religion.


Maybe it's just too late.


But yes, I find that while people claim to be objective and logical in their belief, they don't answer 95% of the issues with creation posted by atheists. We all need to stop seeing the debate as a competition, an argument to "win or lose", and realize the real purpose is to question everything and have certainty that your beliefs are valid.

[Inferius]

I beleive because of herd mentality.

I'm also very afraid of death, so having this big place in the sky to float up to and be greeted by people with wings sounds like a nice alternative to the nothingness of death.

Oh, and I like being molested, imposing my beleifs upon others, and brainwashing my children.

[yourfreind]

Hi there harris7.Greetings from the uk.My wife and i were lucky to have spent a week in the Rockies in Alberta a couple of years back.What a beautiful country you have to live in.Where do you live and how old are you.Id be interested to know.Anyway,in response to your post,the reason that i believe is purely and simply because i chose to.I just hope that dont seem too illogical.All the best.Chris

[mrdevious]

Fair enough Yourfriend. The main reason atheists want to question this stuff though, is because we believe that humanity can only move forward when we stop living under illusion and understand our universe in a reality-based fassion. Otherwise we live trapped behind a mythology that blocks the real answers hidden within reality. I hope one day everybody realizes this.

All the best to you.

[harris7]

MR. that is a good point about Win/loose. that is not my purpose. i partake in these "debates" because i want to understand the mindset of someone who believes (in a more fundamental fashion, no evolution stuff like that)

and i want to understand peoples reasons for believing. and compare them to what i think their reasons are. stuff like that. I live in Vancouver Canada and I’ve never met someone who doesn’t believe in evolution. I find stuff like that very very odd. My mother is religious but she thinks of the bible as a metaphor and something’s as just good ways to live, doesn’t matter were they came from.(which I find quite acceptable)

Yourfriend,

Well, I agree with you. I think that is why most religious people believe, it’s a much better picture of the world. It just bothers me when people try to rationalize it through other means, or when people pressure politics over religious beliefs (gay marriage is a big thing in Canada in past year). Personally I couldn’t allow myself to believe something without examining it. And I’m 19 living in Vancouver. I think you’d find BC to be quite beautiful also

[harris7]

I beleive because of herd mentality.

I'm also very afraid of death, so having this big place in the sky to float up to and be greeted by people with wings sounds like a nice alternative to the nothingness of death.

Oh, and I like being molested, imposing my beleifs upon others, and brainwashing my children.

Hey! *shakes fist*
stop playing to my preconceptions, i know what you believe :rasta:

[mrdevious]

Hey, that's cool you live in Vancouver Harris, my sister lives there. I live here in Kelowna, and it's VERY religious lol. A church for every 10 people to be sure.

BTW, while their economic policies sucked last time, i'd recommend voting NDP provincially in 2009 because they want to legalize weed fully now:D .

[harris7]

yes i am aware. i am acctualy rather involved in that party.

you might be interested in this part of it,
www.endprohibition.ca/

i know the guy who started it,

i'm accutaly currently writing my MLA (fed.) because now fucking harper
" looks to USA for drug policy hints" on front page of the Van. sun today!!!!!

[mrdevious]

Really, you've involved in the NDP? I've always been really interested in politics and have been considering getting involved in the federal NDP, but I wasn't sure if I'd be able to make any type of career out of it without a degree of some sort. I am really good at writing essays though, everything I've done in english, philosophy, and 2 history classes ( all in okanagan college) have revieved "A"'s after writing them in one sitting, so I thought maybe I could work for the parties in writing somehow. Any idea what kind of work, even if volunteer at the start, I could do? I'm not crazy about their last economic decisions, but I could still be happy to start with the provincial NDP and maybe even influence the party in a direction that's more productive (at least I'd aim for that, and find out how good I am at such endeavors).

[harris7]

Well you have to consider that it's different people now, right.

Mistakes were made, but they wern't ideological decisions just bad decisions by the actual people in power. They should have won the last election (if it wasn't for green party) and they will probably win the next.

I could list too many things the liberals have done. Which look to me like their making bad decisions on purpose (like p3’s) which tie their own hands (like the Alberta bc trade deal)


What is more important is the US FUCKIN drug war coming to canada, SEE MY SIGNATURE!!!!!

[mrdevious]

Well you have to consider that it's different people now, right.

Mistakes were made, but they wern't ideological decisions just bad decisions by the actual people in power. They should have won the last election (if it wasn't for green party) and they will probably win the next.

I could list too many things the liberals have done. Which look to me like their making bad decisions on purpose (like p3â??s) which tie their own hands (like the Alberta bc trade deal)



I actually agree with all of this harris, especially since I do believe in their ideological perspectives a lot more. I'm no friend of the Liberals, that's for sure, they cut my mom's wages (she's a nurse) 15%, then did the same to 6 other unions, and declared any strikes illegal by ALL 7 unions that had massive paycuts. They rule like damn dictators, just arbitrarily declaring any strike illegal when it doesn't suit them.

Then for the icing on top they voted themselves a big raise only months after cutting hundreds of thousands of people's pay, only to be voted out by the NDP on that thankfully.

Oh, but yeah I was one of those green party voters in the last provincial election:o (just got sick of both major parties, but I think NDP is making a nice comeback).

[dutch.lover]

Oh, but yeah I was one of those green party voters in the last provincial election:o (just got sick of both major parties, but I think NDP is making a nice comeback).

haha my mom did that too. although she lives in alberta. but anyways, i am involved in the NDP too, but not to the extent Harris is (he is the one who got me involved though). i still do volunteer stuff though, and also for the municipal elections (not NDP though obviously).

I think it's awesome that there are a bunch of threads now about Canada and politics and marijuana. It is nice to be able to find people who are similar to me not just in location, but in beliefs too.

*love*

[Cheery Cherry]

I believe in God because it makes me feel good and whole, as a person, to believe and acknowledge God. I grew up without religion. My parents never really told me anything about God. I also was a very troubled child/teen and did a lot of bad things, mostly to myself and although I believed in God then, I never really gave God much thought or openly talked about God (it was bad for my "bad-ass" image), until recently. After I lost the last of my (well...my only) "blood" family, I think I even hated God for leaving me so alone and confused. The more I hated, the more I was hurting.

My reason for believing may not be a good one but it works for me.

[VOYAGER]

Well i have always felt a strong presence of things beyond what we see and hear in normal life and have always had vry strong faith. I now know that i must be here for a purpose but am still unclear on what it actually is. Maybe it was to bring my beautiful children into this world for another one of Gods purposes, i'm sure time will tell me soon enough. To strengthen my faith i have been involved in many unbelievable auto accidents on and off-road. All with no forms of safety devices. I'll give you one instance where i was traveling about 45-50 mph w/no seat belt in a vehicle with shaved bumpers so literally no safety protection at all. I't was a winter morning and i was trying to drive with fog/frost still on the windshield and came around a corner and when the sun hit the windshield i couldn't see a thing past the windshield. I drifted into the other lane and hit an astro van head on without hitting the brakes. A full speed impact with no brakes applied, no seatbelt, no bumpers. I finally came to a stop and crawled out the window and looked at pieces of my car strewn 50- yards down the road. All without a scratch on me. How is it that some people get into a minor fender bender and end up breaking thier neck or something and dying but many things like this has happened to me. Good thing must happen to good people i guess. The most recent non life threatinging thing was i lost my wedding ring for over a week turning the house upside down cleaning things meticulously and never found it. I asked the Lord to help me find the ring in which i the wed my wife in the Lords presence and ask and ye shall recieve i found it in the most unbelievable place. There are little things, signs in front of us everyday to those who dedicate their life to the Lord, so maybe a little faith is all anyone needs. Why question his existance when its your lack of faith that holds you back to what awaits for Gods children.

[baisez le monde.]

There isn't really any logical reason to believe in God. Some Christians might say various things such as the Bible or the fact that we are here. Personally I think the Bible is a big book o' fiction. And I think whoever wrote it, or "inspired" it meant for it to be read as fiction. Like a fable-esque guide to life. I can't bring myself to say theres absolutely no way that a higher being exists. In my opinion, saying that is just as ignorant as saying if you're not a practicing Christian, you're going to hell. Why do so many people jump to say, "Theres no way a God exists! Look at all the suffering we all have to go through!!!" Think about it.. would life be very satisfying all ups and no downs? Even though it gets awfully tough, I enjoy every damn second of my life. Every hardship makes me stronger in the end. And if there is a God, I think he realized when he created us that there are gonna be hard times in all of our lives. There's no way he could of prevented that, except by taking away our free will. Free will is what separates us from the animals. Our ability to make choices. Some people use that free will to do horrible horrible things and some use it to great, noble things. To conclude this lengthy paragraph, if God made our lives perfect, there would be no spice in our lives. And I don't know about you guys, but the spice is my favorite damn part. So if he's out there, cut the big guy a break, yeah? There's no reason to denounce the possibility of a higher being just because life isn't perfect.

Wow I doubt I really answered the question but oh well. God damn I could talk forever about religion and politics!

[dutch.lover]

i liked your lengthy paragraph! i'm not religious, but like you, i am not about to rule god out either.

[Jacop]

harris7, I think you are slowly realizing the discordian side of you. Why believe? Did you ever consider the option of believing not to believe?

"-to believe in a belief is ignorance, and to not believe in another single belief is ignorant. and within our so called "quest for knowledge we acquire beliefs. Absolute irony."
That was my train of thought, and then i discovered discordianism and the what not. "Hail Eris Goddess of chaos!" you will hear from many discordians, do not take it seriously..... because you will want to ask "do you belive in eris"
lol Good luck to you.

[OniEhtRedrum781]

I don't believe in God specifically, but I think there may be some sort of power...

... And I (and most other people, I think) choose to believe because it gives hope and something to look forward to in the afterlife...

[mrdevious]

i liked your lengthy paragraph! i'm not religious, but like you, i am not about to rule god out either.

Agreed. To rule god out from all possibility would be entirely illogical and unscientific.

[harris7]

Wow, a lot of replies,

To voyager,
I understand your view, and I have also been the subject of a â??miracleâ?� but it didnâ??t have the same effect as it did you. And well I didnâ??t quite make it out without a scratch.
I have studied math quite a bit and accept the probability of the situation. And that is enough to satisfy me. It might have been a 1 in a billion chance we both lived. But then again with 6 billion people on the planet something that amazing should happen 6 times a day.

To baisez le monde,

I believe I can almost say 100% that the god described by Christians does not exist (due to the logical contradictions like the â??problem of evilâ?�. But that is not to say I discount the possibility of â??something out thereâ?�. Interestingly enough I do not believe in free will either. Nor do I believe god would have free will (the one described by Christians) due to his omni-benevolence. It would tie his hands
I know were your coming from too, I too can and have been talking about religion and politics forever on here.

To Jacop,

Discordianism now is that the religion disguised as an elaborate joke, or an elaborate joke disguised as a religion. But, regardless I am not to familiar with it
But, I do Not consider my dis-believing of god as a â??beliefâ?�. I see it as a lack of a belief.

[RedLocks]

ahh the age old pastime of discussing a topic that will get nobody anywhere, surely it must be something intellectual..

[MastaChronic]

if i were to believe in a god/s/ess/es i would pick something pagan. something that worships the earth or maybe a la gente in dios (people of god, what columbus actually called the indians. indian is simply a corruption of this. india was then known as hindustan so no, columbus did not think that america was india.) religion, like worshipping the great spirit or something, or maybe worshipping the earth

[dutch.lover]

^ paganism is cool. too bad christians don't like it so much (ie witch burnings). lol.

[CaliJay]

The question is why do we believe...Not what do we believe so I will try to give you what you were curious about.

Just a bit of info first. Raised Christian, very involved in church...Never felt anything..Always waiting for an experience or proof. I was making decisions based on the bible. Dropped out of church and over time began seeing the business of religion.

Later I developed my own theory based on universal energy and suddenly began encountering affirming experiences. I heard about quantum physics and that was really close to some of my theories. String theory touches on some things and I have finally been able to find Psychis that aren't full of shit and consistantly provide undeniable evidence of another spiritual plane.

Just within the last year I began to research eastern spirituality. I bagan finding other proof of what I was looking for. Stories brought back from India of Spiritual leaders that know basically everything.(see Ram Dass thread)
I am not a believer in a God to worship but rather a consciousness level to achieve in order to experience and be one with or be part of the universal Love. God is Love

Ask anyone that believes in God where God came from and the theories stop there. By design we simply cannot know while we're on earth.

I currently only love myself. Caught up in what is good for me. I can't wait untill I have done my work and can experience the selfless Love that awaits all spirits.

Good luck on your Journey...wish me luck on mine -Jay
(sorry for the long winded response)

[VOYAGER]

Jay it wasn't long winded at all. I got a lot of what you said. I kind of went my own way myself taking all the coincidental info from various religions and religious books especially left out books of the bible that tell of far out stuff that would be hard for a basic christians to accept. Its kind of like what was written in the bible what is just what we needed to know to be a structured society and nothing more, but there is a whole lot else out there and in do time (passing from one state of existance to another) enlightenment will be given. What a complex subject and i'm not the best at explaining things, i wish i could just project my thoughts into someone elses mind. I could probably get my points across better.

[JunkYard]

faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I believe God, at his core, is Love, and there is evidence that that Spirt is real, but it cannot be seen. My hope is that God is Love, and that it [Love] can lead me to better places in this world and perhaps the next.

I don't need to believe in a supernatural God punishing the deeds of sinners, and destroying entire cities, all I need do is believe in Love, and its power, lol!

Did that make any sense?

[lowryderulez]

Only recently have i had a feeling that there might be a god or something hidden which we have yet to discover. I think i been stupid thinking there is nothing there at all. I feel alot fresher believing and to always have a PMA towards everything.
Junkyard that does make sense i guess hehe

piecee