GOD IS EVIL OR Not allpowerful

[Masta Stuff]

God is supposed to be this mighty entity able to create anything o.o he could do anything create a planet, Create life or do w/e

Now we look at the facts

God is all powerful?

God can see all the evil in the world he has the power to do something about it so he chooses not too so we look at it this way

God doesn't care/Meaning he could careless about the human race

God can't do anything/ Meanings he's not all powerful

God doesn't exist/ Meaning no one can do anything cuz god doesn't exist


now one of those statements is true. I mean would he rather let us fix the world? and possible destroy it in the process, how can he not do anything to something he created. Thats like us not trying to protect our child. anyway o.o I dun want to start a huge debate these are not my thoughts I mearly read about them and posted them for a second prespective on the subject.

Ps: forgive my grammer I'm rather tired...:o

[Polymirize]

what's evil?

[Hamlet]

I always thought about that as a kid in Sunday school. It would be better that there was no God than some monster sending people to burn forever in hell because they didn't believe in him.

And now, as an adult, I'm glad that's the truth.

[Pass That Shit]

Masta, you happend to be wrong on both comments.

He's a righteous judge and he's omnipotent and all powerful . I completely disagree with your thoughts. Do you have a problem with the law putting criminals in prison? I don't. You fail to understand that his judgments are righteous. You can call him evil all you like, and I'm sure criminals curse the law as well.

[harris7]

aaaa. The problem of Evil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_problem_of_evil

ps- god defined what was evil. Like killing. Thats why you go to hell for it

[Hamlet]

Do you have a problem with the law putting criminals in prison? I don't. You fail to understand that his judgments are righteous. You can call him evil all you like, and I'm sure criminals curse the law as well.

lol..this is coming from someone who goes by 'Pass the Shit"?! Kinda hypocritical, don't you think?

[Benny Beanstalk]

we're just a shitty school project god made a long long time ago, now we're in the back of the closet. now god's rippin' the bong and listening to Pink Floyd. Honestly, we're the last thing on his mind.

[harris7]

yes but god created sin. when he designed the universe he would have complete power of all that was and all that will be. In fact given the stipulation on god would he have free will? he is all good so he can only do good. he would have had to prevent the creation of sin. And what could have stoped him. ignorance, nope hes all knowing. Not able to, nope all powerful.

then what

answer: he dosn't exist

[harris7]

we're just a shitty school project god made a long long time ago, now we're in the back of the closet. now god's rippin' the bong and listening to Pink Floyd. Honestly, we're the last thing on his mind.

thats what i would think too. why are we so important. I think it's just humans desire to be important.
we like to be important. Thats why we used to be the center of the universe.

[Benny Beanstalk]

yea, man... i bet some other planet has us on some sort of planetary house arrest. thats why we suck at space travel, and it gets fucked up half the time. it those damn aliens, each one has us on lockdown, damn those aliens.

[budzy malone]

Hey, you're the one who is 15. You would be closer to the CREATION and G-D so I suppose you would know. I mean Mick Jagger smoked some pot and made a movie with Ed Anger back in the early sixties and they thought it was evil. It really depends on the crowd you are hanging with.
I mean some guy I was talking to the other day told me that masterbation was the root of all evil. This he told me, after 3,500 times at the flagpole. I always thought it was healthy and very benefitial. Sin is when you include a women in your mind and in your bed.
I wouldn't worry about evil. Pot is not evil, dude.

[Masta Stuff]

Masta, you happend to be wrong on both comments.

He's a righteous judge and he's omnipotent and all powerful . I completely disagree with your thoughts. Do you have a problem with the law putting criminals in prison? I don't. You fail to understand that his judgments are righteous. You can call him evil all you like, and I'm sure criminals curse the law as well.


His judgments are righteous? god is in control of everything. tell me whats so righteous about living in poverty and shit like that. Look at this God created satan. He created evil he lets evil run amok. He can stop evil at anytime but he doesn't cuz he doesn't care or doesn't exist. Your god abandoned you? or your god never really existed in the first place.

[Pass That Shit]

lol..this is coming from someone who goes by 'Pass the Shit"?! Kinda hypocritical, don't you think?


By the way, it's PASS THAT SHIT and fuck the law :pimp:

I live by the law of the LORD. I have been freed from the law of sin and death. I was just making a reference to all you that question why God puts people in hell. First of all, none of his children are going to hell. I was just pointing out that the same principle applies here on earth and no one has a problem with it. You follow the law or you go to prison. Same applies with the law of the LORD. If you don't follow his law you will end up in eternal prison. The difference is that the law of the land will not make you righteous and his law will. :thumbsup:

[Pass That Shit]

His judgments are righteous? god is in control of everything. tell me whats so righteous about living in poverty and shit like that. Look at this God created satan. He created evil he lets evil run amok. He can stop evil at anytime but he doesn't cuz he doesn't care or doesn't exist. Your god abandoned you? or your god never really existed in the first place.

Lack of wisdom and spiritual understanding on your part, doesn't make him unrighteous. Are you saying that you believe that God created evil? Are you saying that you believe that God exists?

[Masta Stuff]

lol, like I said in my first post its not my belief, there not my thoughts I just thought it would be an interesting topic. I hope someone of your attitude can grasp the subject of a simple discussion instead of getting into a debate, that I did not want to generate. But there will always be that one person who defends what they think and has to resort to a argument to persuade the other person that they are wrong. Well I cannot be wrong or right considering thats not what I belive in.

So telling me I have lack of wisdom or spirtual understanding, is like telling me I'm already wrong before I'v even chosen a side. but my fellow stoner I ask you to please enlighten me tell me what do you think and I would not want an arguement just a simple explanation on how My topic is untrue or false. Please Enlighten people and show me how much wisdom and spiritual understand your brain holds.

[JaggedEdge]

Y'all want to say god gave us free will and he loves us? Here is my question.

Why the hell is there a such thing as evil? If we are "gods children," would he not want the best for us? Since he is all powerful, why are we not living in a utopia?

Either god is an asshole, indifferent, or he doesn't exist. It makes no sense to say he loves us, yet lets us die from aids, cancer, murder, etc. I'm sorry, free will is BS.

Is this just a training period for the afterlife? Than why wouldn't god simply create us in the afterlife. He knows who is going to make it anyway. If we were loved, we would not be subjected to all the pain of this life.

[Masta Stuff]

:)
Y'all want to say god gave us free will and he loves us? Here is my question.

Why the hell is there a such thing as evil? If we are "gods children," would he not want the best for us? Since he is all powerful, why are we not living in a utopia?

Either god is an asshole, indifferent, or he doesn't exist. It makes no sense to say he loves us, yet lets us die from aids, cancer, murder, etc. I'm sorry, free will is BS.

Is this just a training period for the afterlife? Than why wouldn't god simply create us in the afterlife. He knows who is going to make it anyway. If we were loved, we would not be subjected to all the pain of this life.

Great Point :)

[Euphoric]

hey this thread got me thinking that god likes acid cause reality is fractal.. :smokin:

[suhl]

we did a problem like this in my logic class that is worded better than what he said.

you really messed this up, that paradox is like this.

according to many people's beliefs, god is all knowing all powerful and all good.

god is either not all good, not all knowing, or not all powerful.

because bad things happen. if he were all knowing he would be aware of all the bad things in the world, if he were all good he would fix all the bad things he saw, if he were all powerful hed have the ability.

so, since bad things happen, he either isnt aware of all of them(not all knowing), is aware of them and chooses to ignore some(well lets be honest most) of them (not all good), or he is aware of all of it, wants to do something about it, but cant (not all powerful). there for he is either not one of the three or doesnt exist.

i do not believe in this one way or the other, i dont really think the existence of god and religion is something you can really be sure of one way or the other. sure you c an say you are, but how can you be certain of something you have no proof for. but then how else did the universe get here, im familiar with the big bang theory, but what caused that? so i believe in some higher power, but i think the rest of organized religion is bullshit. my point is i dont see how we can have devout atheists or devout christians.

now that said, i hope none of the people posting here are the same people that when defending weed say god put it here for a reason so it must be good. based on what ive read ill assume they are not those types. well bringing religion, something that cannot be proven, into any serious argument is a bad point either way

[Cage]

God simply lets us choose what we (mankind) prefer. If you prefer evil, then he allows it, and if you prefer good, he allows that aslo. Choice is key, and we determine our own fate, and submit to our own desires. He's really a cool cat, but our actions have consequences. Be they here on earth, (Which is what I suspect) or be them in an afterlife (Which I doubt)

He lets us choose w/o making us do a damn thing! (Now thats parenting, haha!) Its almost like he doesn't exist at all...

We're in control being the dominant species on earth, which is why man has made laws to govern civilized society.

Much Love,

[thcbongman]

God is supposed to be this mighty entity able to create anything o.o he could do anything create a planet, Create life or do w/e

Now we look at the facts

God is all powerful?

God can see all the evil in the world he has the power to do something about it so he chooses not too so we look at it this way

God doesn't care/Meaning he could careless about the human race

God can't do anything/ Meanings he's not all powerful

God doesn't exist/ Meaning no one can do anything cuz god doesn't exist


now one of those statements is true. I mean would he rather let us fix the world? and possible destroy it in the process, how can he not do anything to something he created. Thats like us not trying to protect our child. anyway o.o I dun want to start a huge debate these are not my thoughts I mearly read about them and posted them for a second prespective on the subject.

Ps: forgive my grammer I'm rather tired...:o


"You find god, the moment you realize you don't need to find god
We exist, all of this, this is all god, we are everything
This is the kingdom, we are the people, so open your doors and breathe in deeply"

All those statements have a stint of truth to it. People are apathetic to change unless a "mystical" event occurs. But each person has the ability to be good, to change for the better. It's all up to each individual because we are apart of god.

[harris7]

we did a problem like this in my logic class that is worded better than what he said.

you really messed this up, that paradox is like this.

according to many people's beliefs, god is all knowing all powerful and all good.

god is either not all good, not all knowing, or not all powerful.

because bad things happen. if he were all knowing he would be aware of all the bad things in the world, if he were all good he would fix all the bad things he saw, if he were all powerful hed have the ability.

so, since bad things happen, he either isnt aware of all of them(not all knowing), is aware of them and chooses to ignore some(well lets be honest most) of them (not all good), or he is aware of all of it, wants to do something about it, but cant (not all powerful). there for he is either not one of the three or doesnt exist.

i do not believe in this one way or the other, i dont really think the existence of god and religion is something you can really be sure of one way or the other. sure you c an say you are, but how can you be certain of something you have no proof for. but then how else did the universe get here, im familiar with the big bang theory, but what caused that? so i believe in some higher power, but i think the rest of organized religion is bullshit. my point is i dont see how we can have devout atheists or devout christians.

now that said, i hope none of the people posting here are the same people that when defending weed say god put it here for a reason so it must be good. based on what ive read ill assume they are not those types. well bringing religion, something that cannot be proven, into any serious argument is a bad point either way

yes it is called the problem of evil I put a link to it above

[Cage]

Does evil even exist, or is evil just a word to describe what we [mankind] find unpleasant, or immoral, or what seems unacceptable in civilized society?

I question wether the concept of evil is even valid, as it's a purely subjective thing, dependent upon our personal perceptions.

Everything just is, as its always been, and until we [mankind] look at ourselves, and stop pointing fingers at God, I don't think we will ever truly embrace that which is good for humanity, and for society.

God isn't evil, if he exist at all, he/she is a teacher above all else...allowing us [mankind] to experiece the unpleasant, so we might learn from our mistakes, and the mistakes of others.

It would seem that mankind is very thick headed, though. Either that, or we're too dumb to realize the consequences of our actions.

We're so busy trying to convince others that we're right, be it about religion, the existence of God, or what have you, we neglect the very thing that unifies. (Love)

I think the hippies [mostly] had it right....



Make Love Not War!

[CheebaMan]

God did not create sin, sin came with the devil

Hail Mr.BoB

[Cage]

UnitedWeFall , I agree with most of what you said, only I'm not so sure about there being only perfect good in an afterlife. Humans are pretty fucked up creatures, and I doubt a mind change of that magnitude is possible when we die.

What I think, is that the earth will become exactly what mankind chooses to make it...a heaven, or a hell. This is our fate...the fate of mankind as a species. Not some afterlife, imo. Although, I can't argue the possibility of an afterlife, I just don't think it will be 'perfect' if there is one.

Much Love,

[Cage]

No, I don't believe in hell, either, nor do I believe in a perfect heaven. As a matter of fact, I question wether there's an after life at all. The earth is our home, and this is where mankind will make their stand.

I don't know what happens when we die, and I don't really think it's important. What's important is how we choose to live the life we have, and how we contribute to our survival as a species. That's my view, anyway. I know many poeple feel strongly about religious belief, and I won't step on toes, or try to convince them differently. I just want to help make the world a safe, and pleasant place for my children, and grandchildren, etc....

The after will take care of itself, right?

[Masta Stuff]

God did not create sin, sin came with the devil

Hail Mr.BoB


God Created the Devil, Thus created sin no Devil No sin.

[Cage]

Yeah, I think a lot of people take the Bible too literally. It would seem to me that if there is no Devil, it would make it easier for man to contend with evil, and such.

That way we're not fighting against some demonic entity, we're just fighting against ourselves, and our own desires, which should allow us to look in ourselves, as opposed to pointing fingers and exclaiming "The Devil made me do it", lol!

(Something all too common among the religious folk)

In essence, when you credit the Devil for creating/causing Evil, you give him power over self, which can be quite foolish, if you ask me.

Much Love,

[orangeman]

If you read the Bible you'd know he gave Satan the power to control this earth for 1,000 years (In God's time, not ours). He is a loyal being, why would he go back on his word. Of course it's painful, he's probably fed up with the evilness to the max but once he does something he can't go back on his word. In the end rather it's real or not we will all see. So I say let's just wait and see :).

[Cage]

If you read the Bible you'd know he gave Satan the power to control this earth for 1,000 years (In God's time, not ours). He is a loyal being, why would he go back on his word. Of course it's painful, he's probably fed up with the evilness to the max but once he does something he can't go back on his word. In the end rather it's real or not we will all see. So I say let's just wait and see :).

Good point, but not everyone believes in a literal "Satan" Some say mankind is satan, some say the church, others say differnt things. The point is that no one knows for sure, and there is much debate over the subject.

The Bible actually states that God creates evil. I think it's somewhere in Isaiah. (Isaiah 45:7) Evil is from the hebrew word "Ra" which means many things, but most assume it means calamity in the passage I'm talking about.

As for me, I have no opinion on Satan, only that I don't believe he bends my will to do his bidding. I'm in control of what I do, just as everyone else is. The Devil has no power over me, you, her, him, as he is not an Evil entity set to destroy all good, imo.

I think the Bible suggests that Satan is simply an accuser, but I'm not cetain on that point.

So yes, lets wait and see, as its not very beneficial to bicker about things like this, lol! If you want to believe that satan makes you do what you do, then so be it. If you want to take responsibility for your own actions, then great, but I see no point in blaming God [who might not exist at all] for the evil in the world...

Sometime, mankind will have to take responsibity. If not, I'm afraid our state of affairs will end in extinction.


Much Love,

[Masta Stuff]

Luckily for us, that 1000 years is very quickly drawing to a close...

My friends, I assure you that interesting things will start happening very soon ;) We're at the end of a time period here, as things on this earth are getting out of control. Each and every one of you are extremely lucky to be alive during this time, but it's going to be a fight until the finish. Just make sure you figure out (very soon) whose side you're on, because one day it will be too late to make the choice.

And please, for those of you who acknowledge the existence of God, but aren't quite sure what you believe yet, read this website http://www.askrealjesus.com/ - it changed my life.

Dude ur scaring the fuck outa me

[harris7]

ya that is a really extreem view you are also scaring the fuck outa me

[JunkYard]

End Time Theory...The Christians have been using it to scare us for ceturies!

[Hamlet]

My beliefs come from what Jesus has said on the website I posted.

Jesus is posting on a website now?

[harris7]

it's more a a blog

[Hamlet]

Aah, yeah,...i can see jesus as more a blogger type. Much easier to get your point across too then having to hunt down someone hearing voices to channel you.

[orangeman]

http://www.askrealjesus.com/ - it changed my life.

Whoa, guys I have only read one page of this web-site and I am blown away, my only question is, how did the person or person(s) that made this site get this knowledge lol? What ever the case, please read this. The site is just amazing already I mean, whoa.

http://www.askrealjesus.com/K_JESUS_ANSWERS/B_ABOUT_GOD/purposemankind.html

That page is deep.

[orangeman]

The person who writes the website has a direct connection with Jesus.

Ok, fuck that now you're really scaring me :p. At first I burst out in laughter but I don't know what the fuck to believe now.

[JunkYard]

I gotta check out that site! :D

Orangeman, does that claim freak you out even a little bit?

[NightProwler]

gods just a thought.

[harris7]

There's nothing to be scared of my friend! If only people realised that this life that we lead is nothing but the beginning of everything. When we die, it is our souls time to leave our body and continue to the next step.

If you want to know more, the website is waiting for you.



When I said â??you scare the fuck outa meâ?�

I didnâ??t mean it like.. Iâ??m so enlightened.

I was going more along the lines of. It scares me that people can believe such crazy things. IT fucking scares me

No offence.

It does interest me though

[ChronoSponge]

I''m pretty sure that Hitler made up his own laws. And I'm pretty sure he sentenced them to life of anguish and death if they were'nt "right" in his eyes. How is God any different?

[JunkYard]

These things only sound crazy because the society we were brought up in has crafted humans to believe that this world isn't going to end.

That's not true. It is largely theorized that one day the sun will burn the earth to a crisp, therefore ending our world.


When you think about it, humans have only lost touch with the spiritual side to life in the last few hundred years. For the thousands of years before that, life was a spiritual journey.

Modern society is the downfall of everything right.

I'll agree with this, only spirituality is taking on new seekers all the time. Also, I'm not sure that modern society is the downfall of everything "right". There are many good things about modern society, imo. For one, people aren't nearly as uptight, or cruel as we once were. In Biblical times, people were stoned to death for commiting adultery...Not that it's right to commit adultery, but a person shouldn't be stoned to death for it, imo.

What say you?

Or rather, what would your living Jesus say?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?"

:cool:

[harris7]

yea. I think that a lot of religious people look back to the highly spiritual days and see it as being so positive and sin free.

I think it is exactly the opposite.

when i went through my history classes i truly got a wonderful insight into what religion is. It's a tool for those in power to extend there power.

Remember back in the day were if you committed a crime, and you were poor, they would make you hold a red hot pole. Your hands would burn and then be bandaged.

something like 1 week later they would remove the bandages.

if your hands were healed then god is showing that you are innocent.
if your hands were still healing, I think everyone’s were, then you were guilty

This system was only applied to the poor. A knight on the other hand if accused of ANYTHING even rape (was this even bad then...) murder.
he would swear on the bible that he is telling the truth. and he would be set free

because if he lied he would burn in hell. Sounds like a system that i would like if i was a knight

[harris7]

and now you'll say. Thats not what jesus wanted. Thats what the church wanted

[stinkyattic]

and now you'll say. Thats not what jesus wanted. Thats what the church wanted

And then we will reply that the Church then, as now, claims to be speaking God's word.

Hey Harris... remember the witch-dunking chair too... If she drowned, she was innocent. If not, she was a witch and sentenced to be burned.

[Euphoric]

is god evil? maybe god has a dark, polar opposite. perhaps everything has an "evil twin" resides in a parallel universe.

either that or the answer to the question "can god create something that even he cannot control?" is pretty obvious by looking at the sad state of things.

OR maybe we are all simply experiencing a dark age, which is part of the master plan.

[JunkYard]

I read this in a book the other day and thought is was interesting.

"Even if you think you hold the ultimate truth in your hands, there is no guarantee that you will escape from evil. More violence has occured in the name of religion than for any other reason. God handed down the truth, and the Devil said. "Let me organize it."

Organized religion has its good points, but by and large it has been a failure.

"Idealistic and loving people who would never harm another have found themselves in the maelstrom of war. Faiths that preach the existence of one God mount campaigns to kill infidels. Religions of love devolve into into partisan hatred of heretics and those who threaten their faith." ---> Deepok Chopra

Why does this happen is my question?

Is evil really that powerful?

[mfqr]

His judgments are righteous? god is in control of everything. tell me whats so righteous about living in poverty and shit like that. Look at this God created satan. He created evil he lets evil run amok. He can stop evil at anytime but he doesn't cuz he doesn't care or doesn't exist. Your god abandoned you? or your god never really existed in the first place.

I agree with you completely.

If God is good, and is so righteous, then why would he not stop the suffering? He has infinite power, and yet he cannot destroy Satan right away? And after he supposedly does destroy Satan, there's only going to be one thousand years of peace? Why one thousand years when it could be eternity? Why make people suffer? If he's all powerful, and does indeed exist, then I don't think he's a righteous God.

Here are my thoughts: religion uses God and Jesus as tools to control the masses, and keep people under control. Religion is just as much bullshit as propaganda on cannabis. You're not supposed to be materialistic in nature, and yet those whom are high up in the "hierarchy" of churches are very rich, and have mansions and luxury cars. Sure, religion teaches morals... but we can have morals without religion. Catholic priests? If they're so in tune with God and religion, then why has it been known for them to molest little boys? If there is a God, I'm certain that it is a God we have never spoken of, heard of, or imagined.

[JunkYard]

I agree with you completely.

If God is good, and is so righteous, then why would he not stop the suffering? He has infinite power, and yet he cannot destroy Satan right away? And after he supposedly does destroy Satan, there's only going to be one thousand years of peace? Why one thousand years when it could be eternity? Why make people suffer? If he's all powerful, and does indeed exist, then I don't think he's a righteous God.

First you assume there is a Satan, and second you assume that the Bible God is responsible. I assume you too have been force fed these concepts by the flock?


Here are my thoughts: religion uses God and Jesus as tools to control the masses, and keep people under control. Religion is just as much bullshit as propaganda on cannabis. You're not supposed to be materialistic in nature, and yet those whom are high up in the "hierarchy" of churches are very rich, and have mansions and luxury cars. Sure, religion teaches morals... but we can have morals without religion. Catholic priests? If they're so in tune with God and religion, then why has it been known for them to molest little boys? If there is a God, I'm certain that it is a God we have never spoken of, heard of, or imagined.

I agree, but I would think that people experience God everyday. The Bible God has been turned into a sadistic diety, imo. I don't view God, or my idea of God, in that light. Humans created the Bible God with their mind, and gave him human attributes. God, if there is one, is nothing more, and nothing less than the creative force of this universe, as well as its opposite all rolled into one, imo.

I think God is the universal consciousness...

:smokin:

[harris7]

Harris7, have you ever considered that maybe the reason society is continually getting more and more dangerous, crime-ridden and just generally fucked up is because our laws are no longer strict, so people really don't care if they get caught?


That my friend is a very the very same argument I've heard so many right wing polititions make. And guess what it's based on nothing. Longer and more sever sentences have been found not to reduce crime. And that is why manditory minimum sentencing is stupid.

by your logic a society which used capital punishment for every crime would be the safest... I once saw a star trek about this :thumbsup:




The amount of crime back in those days would have been absolutely insignificant compared to what we see now.
.

This is an assumption. Was there less crime back then. Well there was a hell of a lot of rape and murder. just no one talked about it.

And I guess things like wife beatings werenâ??t crime because it was ok back thenâ?¦

you are assuming that the world is worse today that it was. And since religion was stronger then. you are assuming that this correlation is causal. I doubt the correlation and I doubt it causal.

as well. Today the majority of crimes. Not pick pocketing. but shit real bad shit. is caused by a few. for example the American government has probably caused more "crime" throughout the world in the last 4 years than all the crime in Canada.

how many civilians have they killed. How many of there own civilians have they let die.

If your talking about average crime in the world being greater now. And if this is true. it is because the average is artificially inflated by a very very few who do very bad things.
-----------------------------------------
as well you seem to think the people killing in jesusâ??s name were all silly humans tricked by the church. Remember that the Christians killed more â??witchesâ?� than the Naziâ??s killed jews!!!

What makes you so sure you are not just tricked my another institution?

[harris7]

Oh and currently aren’t the very very religious countries the ones with all the genocide and war…

And places with less religion, Europe or Canada, have none…

[JunkYard]

Okay,That really doesn't make any sense. The Christians killed the witches - God didn't tell them to. That's the thing you have to remember. It's the humans doing the evil. And when they do this evil, they are breaking many of the 10 commandments set by God, and the teachings in the Bible said by Jesus. Religion wasn't intended to be bad. Human's made it bad.

I think point is that Christians (God believing, Bible thumping zealots) did. But why?

Evil?

Religious dogma?

Fear?

The Devil?

Probably the very best answer here is fear, but I'd say all played a role. If this is true, what do you think they were they afraid of?

The Devil? (yes)

Because Christians felt they [The witches] threatened thier faith? (yes)

Because they [The Christians] thought they [The witches] were evil? (yes)


Now, what do you think caused them to feel this way, and why did they react the way they did?

Answer: Because the Bible told them so, and they thought the Bible was the word of God, and infallible! In this sense, God told them to kill the witches...pure and simple! Organized religion is a dangerous thing, and so is the Bible in the hands of the fearful, and true believers.

2 cents,

[harris7]

the thing is, united. IS that your saying that they arn't following Jesus. They are following the church. right...

but, they thought they were following him. and they thought the church was teaching his teachings.

what is different about you and this jesus website

[JunkYard]

the thing is, united. IS that your saying that they arn't following Jesus. They are following the church. right...

but, they thought they were following him. and they thought the church was teaching his teachings.

what is different about you and this jesus website

Actually, the web-site has some pretty damn good stuff on there. It's not dogmatic at all, man. At least, nothing like organized religion, or what is common among the churches. It actually attempt to guide the readers into a better way of seeing things, to help them in life. Granted, I haven't read through the entire site, but what I've seen thus far has been quite a treat. Save the fact that it claims to be the words of Jesus. I find that a little disturbing...

Other than that little [big] dilemma, I think it's a great site!

:thumbsup:

[Hamlet]

The website can say all the warm and fuzzy things it wants but the fact remains that they are claiming the info. is coming 'straight from Jesus'. In other words it's based on a lie. The same lie the Catholic Church (as the mouthpiece of God) and others have used for centuries to manipulate people.

Get enough people believing their bullshit and they can change what they say to anything they want-because after all, it's coming straight from God himself-right? So it's indisputable.

It's a suckers play and a poison trap guilded in lilies.

[JunkYard]

The website can say all the warm and fuzzy things it wants but the fact remains that they are claiming the info. is coming 'straight from Jesus'. In other words it's based on a lie. The same lie the Catholic Church (as the mouthpiece of God) and others have used for centuries to manipulate people.

Get enough people believing their bullshit and they can change what they say to anything they want-because after all, it's coming straight from God himself-right? So it's indisputable.

It's a suckers play and a poison trap guilded in lilies.

I guess there are three possibiblities here, Harris...

1) They are lying like you suggested
2) they are not lying and it really is coming from Jesus, or...
3) They are somewhat schizophrenic, and completely believe they are speaking for Jesus.

The last one is more likely imo, but you've seemed to have taken your pick, as well. I think as long as a person doesn't treat this site like most treat the Bible, there is no harm done, and 'maybe' some progress made, lol! Of course, anyone claiming the words of Jesus as fact could get a person in trouble if lead the wrong way...

So, I completely see your point, and I agree for the most part... Even so, the site makes for some prety darn good reading, haha!

I think I'll go there now, just to see what's new...

btw, sorry to jump in like I do...I sometimes can't help myself.

Much Love,

[Hamlet]

1) They are lying like you suggested
2) they are not lying and it really is coming from Jesus, or...
3) They are somewhat schizophrenic, and completely believe they are speaking for Jesus.

I was going to say 1) and 3) are the same thing, but I suppose someone thinking they're telling the truth couldn't completely be construed as 'a lier'. Doesn't change the fact though that the info. is not the truth. And if it is psychosis that's just one step away from a Hale Bopp koolade party.

But by all means jump in any time you get the urge. That's what a forum is all about.

[JunkYard]

I was going to say 1) and 3) are the same thing, but I suppose someone thinking they're telling the truth couldn't completely be construed as 'a lier'. Doesn't change the fact though that the info. is not the truth. And if it is psychosis that's just one step away from a Hale Bopp koolade party.

But by all means jump in any time you get the urge. That's what a forum is all about.

Lmao! You got that right, man... Those koolaid party's can get a bit deadly, eh?

:D

[JunkYard]

Why is everyone obsessed with proving or disproving God? God is all about the faith. Here's how I see it...
People who try and try with all their might to prove God is bad/nonexistant are just trying to make everyone feel miserable like they do. People who try to shove God down your throat are radical or scared.

I think relationships with a deity are personal. I don't think church is bad or anything. I just feel that my relationship with God is no ones business but my own.

I hear ya, Billionfold, but much of this discussion isn't about proving, or dis proving anything. Thus far, the conversation is more about Gods attributes, and what some feel God is responsible for. I've seen some fairly bitter views stated, and I can certainly understand that mindset. Sure, God is about faith, and a personal relationship with God is just that...Personal.

Although, I think most views are somewhat fear based, as opposed to them "trying to make everyone feel miserable like they do". I don't see this factor at all. What I see is a bit of anger, bitterness, and a fear flavoured cherry to top it off. They're are merely stateing their views. This is what this forum is for, so...

I think it's interesting.

Much Love,

[Hamlet]

So, even tho their "bullshit" teaches love, respect for your fellow man, how to lead a happy and positive life etc... Hm. You're reasoning is a bit flawed.

All cults work the good cliches into their teachings. Jimmy Jones probably gave sermon after sermon on those very topics right before he talked them all into mass suicide. I'm sure David Koresh was preaching the same thing while he lit Waco up. (by the way, he thought he was Jesus too.) So how is my reasoning a bit flawed?

As far as paying lip service to the good things, well...anyone can do that. I'll take a Ghandi who walks the walk over a website that just talks the talk any day.

[JunkYard]

That sounds awfully miserable to me.

I'm not saying these aren't miserable states to live life in, lol! I'm saying that their intention is NOT to spread what they might be feeling. I think they're simply stating thier views, ya dig?

No harm done unless people let these types have power over them...Know what I mean?

btw, not everyone who regects the concept of God are bitter, or fearful, or angry. Some simply don't believe, and again, are simply stating their views. You can't bunch the whole of disbalievers in one group, nor can you bunch the whole of beilievers in one group. People vary in belief for many different reasons, and all perceptions are unique to each individual.

I just thought it was unfair for you to assign these groups to those just saying whats on thier mind. :cool:


Much Love,

[Nylo]

The concept I find most interesting in viewing God is how people see evil in the world. People are prompt to curse God: How could you, almighty, damn us to live this way when you can save us all? I think the bigger question is why do people treat eachother like garbage and blame others for it? Including God, whom they don't believe in.

[JunkYard]

yup...

[Hamlet]

Maybe it's time you opened your eyes and realised that maybe this one might actually be real.

Listen to yourself man. You're claiming Jesus is posting on a website, and I'm the one who's supposed to open my eyes?! Dude, wake up. You're getting bullshited by a bunch of looinies.

All the warm and fuzzies you can get from your own conscience. It there is a God, that's where he's going to be broadcasting from...not from messianicpsychosis.com

[harris7]

Why is everyone obsessed with proving or disproving God? God is all about the faith. Here's how I see it...
People who try and try with all their might to prove God is bad/nonexistant are just trying to make everyone feel miserable like they do. People who try to shove God down your throat are radical or scared. QUOTE]

This post got me all riled up. First off why do you think I am miserable and you think that is why I wish to engage people into a discussion?

And how can you not think the church is a bad thing. Do you have any idea how much harm it has done. They killed 8 000 000 “witches” for example.
That is horrible.


[quote=Hamlet]Listen to yourself man. You're claiming Jesus is posting on a website, and I'm the one who's supposed to open my eyes?! Dude, wake up. You're getting bullshited by a bunch of looinies.

Yea I agree. As well it doesn’t matter if the teachings are good or fulfilling. IF they are well I am happy for you. These can be fulfilling and not come from jesus.

Why do you believe them. That is what really bugs me. WHY…
I don’t understand how someone on a website could possibly convince you of this.
There only medium is type so they must have just said it. What could they possibly say to support it. Do they accurately predict the weather? Now that would be amazing