burns/amputations / phantom pain

[xcrispi]

hey folks ,
i'm a newcomer to your site and am curious if there are other medicinal users due to severe burns , or phantom pain due to amputations ?
i'm in michigan and am lucky enuf to be in 1 of only 4 cities that overlooks medicinal use as long as you have a script / or letter from a dr.
i'm an 85% 3rd. degree burn survivor , therefore the xcrispi bit , and am missing numerous fingers n toes due to my injuries from an auto related accident . kidney probs. prohibit the longterm use of script narcotics . i found that the use of m/j really helps w/ electric/shooting pain , and also phantom pain from screwy nerve endings due to amputations .
anybody else in the same boat out there ?
peace :thumbsup:

[birdgirl73]

Oh, heaven bless your heart, Xcrispi. You had 85% coverage 3rd degree? Do you know how lucky you are to have survived that? I'm sure there've been plenty of times during that recovery you wished you hadn't, but I'm impressed you did. I'm so sorry you had to endure that agony. So sorry you faced such a tragedy.

I apologize for answering your Q with a different topic question. But I know a little about burns as a former paramedic. Yours weren't burn ratios a lot of people recover from.

I'm not a burn victim or an amputee. But I'm in my first year of med school now and am eager to hear if others have had success with cannabis and phantom pains/nerve pain. My guess is they have. We used weed to help my sister, who has end-stage ovarian cancer, this past summer, and it eased some nerve pain she had in her spine and head and also helped her appetite and nausea during her last rounds of chemo. That's lovely you're in a town that overlooks medicinal use. I wish more were like that.

Take care, Xc, and welcome to the boards.

[xcrispi]

:)
hey birdgirl73 ,
god bless . your right 1 in 10,000 chace of making it . i'm really stubborn ppl. lol . 1 time in my life it's worked to my benefit . no regrets w/ surviving . more often i've wondered why :confused: after being in hospital for 13 mos. n seeing so many others w/ far less % rate not make it . no pity party here , no time , lifes to short . ppl. gotta adapt or become extinct . :thumbsup:
sorry to hear about your sister , i'll say a prayer . G/B
the ppl. in our community petitioned to have medicinal m/j put in front of our city council to vote on n they whinned it was 2 contriversial . so we got enough signatures for it to be put on the ballot to let the ppl. decide and it passed by 60% . 1 small win for the lil guy .:dance:
peace all
looking forward to hearing more on this subject

[someuser]

Hey man,

Just wanted to say you have a really positive outlook and I respect that. I had a much much smalled 'incident" physically happen to me and I let it destroy 6yrs of my life. Puts things in perspective.

[BaknBlake]

i know i found your thread a little late...im glad you still have a positive attitude...my cousin was in a auto accident where he was burnt over 90% of his body...he lost his dad in the fire as well...i get emotional just thinking about it...but hey man, we are lucky to be alive...if a burn is the worst thing that happens to me in my life...ill be happy...my prayers are with you..maybe we can talk on im or something of the sort... god bless

-blake

[oturbojoeo4o]

my budd got clipped on the freeway when he was on his bike and he all the nerve endings were servered in his left arm, and they could only connected a few...so hes stuck with a permanent sling...he has those shooting pains everynow and then, but hes a big jokester about it all, he uses the sling to hold his beer :)

but he does say that the shooting is relieved with a small amount of mj, he doesnt even have to be really high, in he hates the smell and doesnt like the profile people give him cuz he smokes.

just thought id throw in my 2 cents

[Nochowderforyou]

I get severe headaches from a skull fracture about 7yrs ago. I have perm. nerve damage in the side of my nose, and half of my upper lip. I got jumped by 3 people and they crushed in the right side of face. I had surgery to have it lifted out again. Since then my brain kind of got "re-wired" to say and now I got massive headaches, and my jaw tightens up. If I don't smoke for about 48hrs, it tightens up like a spring and talking/eating are out the question.

My buddy a few years ago suffered 3rd degree burns on about 30% of his body. A butane accident, and he had skin graphs and was in hopspital for several weeks. He can't even stay in the sun for prolonged periods of time. It's harsh shit.

Keep your head up. :thumbsup:

[xcrispi]

yep ,
were like vampires lol , no direct sunlight for any great period of time , i'm bad enuf i cant even sweat , no pores in skin so much scar tissue , have a heatstroke n shit . been 5 1/2 years now .
likewise w/ the chin up nochowder , man is about the most vicious animal i know , ppl. treat each other cruely .

[Storm Crow]

OK, so i'm building myself a medical marijuana note book (over 200 pages of medical abstracts) and from ccicnewsletter (HEAVY MMJ research) I got this. I know you guys already know this from personal experience, but having it said by the medical research community is also very good. You might want to print a copy for when your state finally allows MMJ and you go in to get your recommendation.

Effects of a Cannabinoid Agonist on Spinal Nociceptive Neurons in a Rodent Model of Neuropathic Pain

Liu, C. and J. M. Walker (2006). J Neurophysiol, Aug 30.



The effects of the synthetic cannabinoid WIN 55,212-2 on heat-evoked firing of spinal wide dynamic range (WDR) neurons were examined in a rodent model of neuropathic pain. Fifty-eight WDR neurons (1 cell/animal) were recorded from the ipsilateral spinal dorsal horns of rats with chronic constriction injury (CCI) and sham-operated controls. Relative to sham-operated controls, neurons recorded in CCI rats showed elevations in spontaneous firing, noxious heat-evoked responses, and after discharge firing as well as increases in receptive field size. WIN 55,212-2 (0.0625 mg/kg, 0.125 mg/kg, 0.25 mg/kg, i.v.) dose-dependently suppressed heat-evoked activity and decreased the receptive field areas of dorsal horn WDR neurons in both nerve injured and control rats with a greater inhibition in CCI rats. At the dose of 0.125 mg/kg, i.v., WIN 55,212-2 reversed the hyperalgesia produced by nerve injury. The effect of i.v. administration of WIN 55,212-2 appears to be centrally mediated because administration of the drug directly to the ligated nerve did not suppress the heat-evoked neuronal activity in CCI rats. Pretreatment with the cannabinoid CB1 receptor antagonists SR141716A or AM251, but not the CB2 antagonist SR144528, blocked the effects. These results provide a neural basis for reports of potent suppression by cannabinoids of the abnormal sensory responses that result from nerve injury.

http://ccicnewsletter.com/index.php?customernumber=781160420367400&pr=Se06_Neuroscience#_Toc148951557


My nerve problems stem from a childhood head injury- kid tried to kill me with a hammer. Ended up with migraines and cluster headaches, a large, sometimes painful, scar in my scalp and a half dozen dents in my skull. Cannabis keeps the headaches away. I've been using it for 40 years. I'm "California legal". I can't even imagine what it would be like to have my scar all over my body. Even thinking about it makes me shudder! I wish you all the best of luck in life- it seems to me you've had your lifetime's worth of bad luck already.

[birdgirl73]

Storm Crow, I love it that you're compiling that notebook. Think there'll ever be a place online where that sort of thing might be amassed in a single place, or are NORML's links the closest we have to that now?

Besides having all the info in one place, what do you plan to do with the compiled information? I ask because I think you would make a very good lobbyist on behalf of medical MJ for states where that's not yet been allowed.

I also want to ask you this. As research goes, my impression has been that there's far too little of it going on in the U.S. And the more I think about this, the more I feel completely certain that Big Pharma will work very hard to block advancements in this area. What do you believe are the most viable options toward getting more research and more respect for the healing potential of cannabis/cannabinoids? I somehow want more organized effort, yet as a pipsqueak first year med student, I don't really know where to begin. But I want to do something somehow to help. I always enjoy reading what you have to say, and you're like me in that you rarely are without strong opinions.

[xcrispi]

hey storm crow ,
i wish there were more ppl. like yourself compiling scientific proof that cannabis does indeed work for pain management . w/o it i'd still be eating 2400 mg. of neurotin , 60 mg. of oxycottin/ms cottin , n 15 mg of ativan everyday and after 5 yrs. of it , most likely be on kidney dialisys due to all the f/u script narcs. destroying my kidneys .
i was working on a girls car ,replacing an elect. fuelpump , when the entire garage ignited from static elect. and not enuf ventalation . despite being 90% 3rd. degree i covered my face n crossed my legs .lol . never know i was burned to see me from the neck up . prob. why i'm so far along w/ such a poss. outlook on life still .
most of my pain is electric , like jolts down limbs to wherever nerve endings happened to grow to after the amputation of toes n fingers due to bone infection . really good smoke does wonders . got some cottoncandy x nycd right now n works great .
god bless n help us keep fighting the fight .

[ToDrunkToFish]

Hey man where at in michigan you at? Im there too, if your close enough ill smoke ya down =). Canton Area.

[xcrispi]

hey todrunktofish ,
appreciate the offer bro . between wrk , drs. appts , n life i dont get out much . used to have a g/f by canton corners lol . im at 8mile n woodward .
peace:thumbsup:

[Nochowderforyou]

likewise w/ the chin up nochowder , man is about the most vicious animal i know , ppl. treat each other cruely .

Yes, I agree. You know humans are the only species in the world that kill/harm their own kind just for fun? No other species hurts one another for no reason, survival yes, but not like humans do.

We are a brute race.

Good luck to you. :smokin:

[ToDrunkToFish]

Cool I know where you live sorta, almost direct west of me 20 min trip =).

[xcrispi]

hey todrunktofish ,
i'm 20 min. n/e of you . you happen to know a dude named robert olenick in canton ? skinhead , bald guy . bout my age like 36-37 now popeye tatoo , lived in a trailer park near you . a partydog too . lol .:rasta:

[Storm Crow]

Hi Bird Girl and friends, I am SLOWLY working on a listing of the URL sites of my notebook. I'm sorting them by catagories- cancer, ms, neuroregeneration, etc. I plan to eventually spread it all over the net via sites like this- I expect it will become a medical sticky. Unfortunately, I just don't have a lot of time lately. I work in Special Education as a substutute Teacher's Aide and there is a flu going around, so I've worked the last 8 days and there's more to come and the work is exhausting ( jumping into another aide's class- not knowing the routine or the kids, is tough) ! Plus, I'm helping a friend with a MMJ + CPS custody case- they lost, so now we are in appeal mode. It's a mess. They are getting a new lawyer- their present one was once a sharp lawyer but is getting senile (hmm..I should send him some Alzheimer's abstracts). And I have to have some time for me! But the note book is coming along. For those of you who are interested about making your own notebook, start with ccicnewsletter.com (heavy science), marijuana.researchtoday.net (more readable), or just do a search on cannabis abstract (and any disease) You will be amazed what you find! Hope your doctors use these sites! Our government is deliberately suppressing the news about cannabis' healing properties. Israel is doing a LOT of research. They give cannabis to soldiers who have PTSD. Articles on cannabis and blood pressure, strokes, cancer, MS, osteoporosis and more are coming out of Israel, Spain, Finland, Taiwan, virtually everywhere but the US! And for the most part, the US articles are whimpy! They always have a lame disclaimer saying not to use pot or we need a synthetic that does this and not get you high. What exactly is wrong with feeling good????? Especially if you are sick! And finally as to what to do. Make your own note book, send copies to all the doctors you know. If someone is ill, send them an abstract to educate them! I love to present my (noncannabis) doctor a pile of abstracts when I go in. LOL He semi-sympathetic- he used pot as a med student, but is scared of the feds (who isn't now-a-days?). Voting the b*astards out of office this November would also be good. And yes, I AM an opinionated old broad, and proud of it! If we don't speak out about what is right, who will? I just keep remembering the WWII poem about "they came for the Jews, and I said nothing....." All of you, get educated and speak up! :dance: If we don't, what happened in the book (or movie) "1984" will be pleasant compared to what is coming!

[five0addict]

hey hows it goin, im a noob here and i can relate.
few years ago i was camping with some buddies and we were drinking off a keg. i hate to and rarely drink, but this was one of those times. i have a benine(sp?)(means no known cause(NOT epilepsy!)) seizure condition and i didnt have my meds because i really wasnt planning on drinking and staying the night out there in bfe. i got convinced into staying and getting hammered so i figured what the hell. night goes by, gets cold, everyone slowly goes to sleep. im stuck in the cab of my truck with a shitty blanket and a sweatshirt. it was cold and uncomftorble and i really noticed it at around 6am. so theres no way i can sleep through this shit so i get up and relight the fire from the night before, start to get warm and boom next thing i know im in the back of my truck going to meet the evac helicopter. i was the only one up and i fell in the fire for who knows how long, luckly one of my freinds was half asleep in the tent and heard something, he saved my life..
pain like only a fellow survivor can understand, i stopped describing it to people but im sure youve had a pussy burn from a lighter or something where it blistered up and hurt like hell. well double that pain and put it over half your body. its no joke. we metup with the chopper and she shot me up and i was out for 2 weeks. wake up and wow my life fucking sucks. 48% 3rd degree,52% total and all the rest of me was skin grafts, exept my right arm, i begged them not to graft off of it. fuckers still took a little square, just to piss me off im sure. that was by far the freakiest hospital visit ever. i was on over lethal ammounts of pk's and tripping balls, the shit i saw was beyond even a hardcore cid trip. drug induced reality. i was still asking for more drugs just to kill the pain and it this point maybe me too. my left arm was the worst, even the top burn specialist surgeon said that my arm had the worst burns hes ever seen. i told them to cut it off, it was in bad shape. all my musles were burnt, almost gone. somehow i can still use it today. damage almost looks minor now. over 1million$,year of pt/ot, 13 surguries and here i am.
http://www.50riders.com/photopost/data/500/600DSCN3378.jpg
enough storytelling

so 85%!?!
wow, thats definetly the highest 3rd degree burn coverage ive ever heard of. your lucky!
ive used marijuana much in my recovery, fight my depression, relive flu-like syptoms from highdose pks, and not let the crossed nerves drive me nuts.

see ya 'round
stanton

[xcrispi]

hey 5-0 addict , :(
no doubt , noone on here has a clue till u been there man . hell on earth . was replacing a tank mounted fuel pump in a girls car n garage filled w/ fumes n exploded from static electricity , we think . i was lyin on a piece of shag carpet .
they took me to local hospital n they freakd out , shot me fulla morph n shoved me off in a corner so the priest could read me my last rites man . i wasn't even a good flight risk so no copter to ann arbor burn center .
but fool was too stubborn to die . lol .
at 85% you have about a 1 in10,000 chance of survival . they ended up sending me to a hospital w/ a burn unit in the middle of detroit in the damn ghetto . 5 mos. self induced coma . woke up a morphine addict after 5 mos. on the drip , was in hospital a total of 16 months . too many surgeries to count ? 5 1/2 yrs. and 14 million dollars later i'm back for the attack myself , back at the dragstrip this yr. n they didn't think i'd ever get back outa the house . good to see someone else that's bounced back after a trip to hell and still be themselves .
peace G/B
:thumbsup:

[five0addict]

wow, makes me feel like i just got a scrape on my elbow!
reletively i was in and out, thats just hardcore!
what dont kill me just makes me crazier, now im actually a better rider than i was before. now i feel like theres nothing that could happen to me that wouldnt hurt more than what ive felt. found my riding style is smoother when in stoned, just not on a track. :dance:
hey did you ever get any phentnol(sp)?
it was a sythetic opiate from what i remember, only lasts about 45-50 minutes but that stuff was awesome. guess it was really expensive and addictive. idk bout you but now i would pay to NOT take opiate pks.
the hallucinations were a trip tho, i was looking at a cabinet with a wood grain look to it, then i start to see it move, but it didnt just move lizards came out from the grain and crawled up the wall. i felt consious and alert at the time, i can still remember that to the day. it was real until i told my mom and she touched the cabinet, really weird. not like mushrooms or acid like if you look at something it will move in some way, completely random and almost out the coner of your eye. morphine sucks!
*as a spark a fresh one..
hows your skin holding up?
mine fucking sucks, its always dry and peeling mostly on my arm. oh and itchy as hell sometimes, tryed all the anti itch creams and they barely work. skin is super thin too, minor wrecks always make a huge scab. its annoying more than anything, clothes always got blood on em in riding season.
nice to meet ya :D

[xcrispi]

hey ,
yep skin sucks , super thin , it'll take years for it to toughen up . always got blisters or something going on . wouldn't feel right anymore if i didn;'t atleast have 1 good size wound on me .
do you have really bad sleep probs too ? :confused: nomore opaites here man , tired of oxycottin , ms cottin , vicodin , percocet etc.... i'd just as soon smoke a fatty n live an extra day or 2 . "pain is good' it lets me know i'm still alive !!! :D
where you from new york ? your very blessed too man , i met a guy while in the burn unit that did exact same thing as yourself n he lost his right leg above the knee .
peace

[Storm Crow]

Hi guys, considering the healing properties of cannabis, maybe using hemp oil might help your skin. Folks with kidney disease get a nasty skin condition called pruritus- dry, very itchy, skin. There is no cure for it, but an article claims that endocannabinoids cleared it up for some pruritus sufferers. http://www.acmed.org/english/bulletin/ww_en_db_cannabis_artikel.php?id=207 Endocannabinoids and cannabinoids are closely chemically related, so if it were me, I'd give myself hemp oil rubdowns for a few weeks, just to see if there is any change. Internally, it's good for your heart, so you might want to take a tsp or two a day. If it doesn't work for your skin, it's still not a waste since it's good for your health! You can get hemp oil at any health food store or on line. I'm glad you fellows got together. :) It's a drag feeling alone. Now, mozzie on down to TY and meet some more friendly folks! http://www.treatingyourself.com :thumbsup:

[xcrispi]

hey stormcrow ,
peace man . more good input as always . i go thru like a jar of palmers coco butter based creme a week easy . co co butter oil seems to work a lil better but all my clothes end up a.f.u . lol . i'm gonna try hemp oil externally first n i'll give you a holler back n let u know how it works any dif. etc....
G/B bro n much karma
xcrispi

[five0addict]

figured you were off opiates just wondering if they shot you with that phentnol. oh another one of my favorites was benadryll, sounds weird but it put me to sleep. i desperately tryed to sleep to pass time as fast as posible, i didnt have cable tv or nothin.
really no sleep problems, sometimes takes long to fall asleep, but i work night shift so its tough anyway.
im in cali, centeral coast. i was in fresno at the burn center there, it sucked ass. teaching hospital so theres always classes going on. i was talking about how its not worth it and telling them to pull the plug. they called in a class of phycyatrists, that was entertaining. im sure i scared every single one of those docs. there was absolutely nothing they could say to make me feel better and i made sure they knew it. i got too many stories ill shutup now! :o

never thought of hemp oil, but ive used everything in the isle and no go. theres this product called elta thats ok but its super greasy and makes me itchy.
i need to get my perscription, right now im living check to check so is tough to save money.

[Storm Crow]

Hey, Xcrispi, glad to help- oh, and it's sis, not bro! lol I will appreciate the feedback! Unlike much of the scientific community, I pay attention to those "anecdotal" stories- they are someone's personal experience and are as valid as a study, in my book.

[xcrispi]

Storm Crow = sorry sis :)
anyone willing to help w/ their 2 c worth is much appreciated .
i hope the other dudes willing to kik it bk n forth a lil , i found it to be of some help going to burn meetings while in hospital talking to others that have been there n done that . their input meant more than the hosp. shrinks talking book at ya etc... they've had me bk. for aftercare n took me to see other patients more than once so they can see anythings possible n give them words of encouragement .
i know when i got home i had tons of questions that drs. basically couldn't answer because of the nill survival rate . i went deaf from experimental antibiotics too and didn't help w/ communication skills in the least . now fools bionic n shit . cochlear implant now n would love to help others in my position .
peace n God Bless S/C :thumbsup:

[xcrispi]

hey 5-0 addict ,
i dont ever remember any phentnol but then again i was in drug induced coma for the first 5 mos. when they brought me out of it those arabs had just slammed the plane into the trade cntr. so i.v. benedryl was at a premiun . sooooo many folks got burned n sooo many med supplies for n.y . i had a cuttie that worked in pharm. that would hiide liquid benedryl in my room for me so i always had it . oral benedryl not work nearly as well . i was so tired of itchin from healing man and it helped me sleep too .
i too was in a teaching hosp. lol . every week meant a new band of med. srudents coming thru. ewwn n ahhhn at ya n shit .
but lifes good .
peace

[Annabanana]

Yikes 3rd degree burns over 85% that has to be rough.
I have a neurological condition called dystonia (it's in the same family as
Parkinson's) and have had to take huge doses of narcotics, benzo's, garden variety muscle relaxers, etc. Muscle relaxers will definitely screw with your liver and opioid / tylenol combos aren't great for renal function. I started taking marinol (think pot in a pill) last spring and it works wonders.
Only problem is I can't get it anymore b/c I live in a screwy state (AL).

[Storm Crow]

http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/15390041
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/178/2/107
Just run a search on your condition, cannabis, abstract or chech marijuana.researchtoday.com or ccicnewsletter.net (heavy science at ccic) It never hurts to have scientific papers to back up your claim that cannabis helps. If you can, move to a sane state! Granny Storm Crow :stoned:

[Annabanana]

Thanks so much Storm Crow;) I've got a good bit of research printouts and other info. Being a nurse doesn't hurt either. I just don't have anyone that will write the script at this point and I'm having to rely on my family's ins and they blew a gasket when my mother snooped her way into the RX part of the website and found out that I was taking it. So for now it's all about finding some plants.




http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/15390041
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/178/2/107
Just run a search on your condition, cannabis, abstract or chech marijuana.researchtoday.com or ccicnewsletter.net (heavy science at ccic) It never hurts to have scientific papers to back up your claim that cannabis helps. If you can, move to a sane state! Granny Storm Crow :stoned:

[xcrispi]

hey annabanana ,
saw that you poped up on the im list , thats cool . feel free to hit me up n chat i'm always around .
peace -n- god bless
happy turkey day
xcrispi

[xcrispi]

bump kottonmouthchris bout vape

[surreys princess]

*bump*

thread fixed for my bud crispi......you and the mrs take care x

[xcrispi]

:hippy: Surrey Rocks :hippy:

[surreys princess]

you bet your ass bro.... ;)

ask, and ye shall receive..... :D

[Weedhound]

She does rock but she has this way of popping up......:D

[surreys princess]

i know....

i am like a bad habit, eh?! or better yet, that leak in the faucet you keep swearing you fixed....

always love seeing you wh xx

[Canuckofithaca]

i broke my neck last year, completely shattered one of the bones, and weed helps with the occasional pain and arthritis like no other

christ, arthritis at 16

[Weedhound]

christ....a BROKEN NECK at sixteen. Hope you are doing better. :jointsmile:

[xcrispi]

i broke my neck last year, completely shattered one of the bones, and weed helps with the occasional pain and arthritis like no other

christ, arthritis at 16

You and Lip both w/ the broken neck my friend .
Arthritis here too after cooking all my joints . :D
Pain is good , extreme pain is extremely good . :) Try some gloucosamine bro .
Crispi :jointsmile:

[Storm Crow]

Here's the story, My brother's friends, Dick and Susie, told David, my bro, to try this stuff. "It really help with the aches and pains!", they said. David, being a carpenter, had aching hands. He tried it. Three months later, his hands (and his bad knees) had stopped hurting. So he gave me, his older sis, a call. "Ya gotta try this stuff! I'm sending you a $20, so you can try it." I tried it. My thumbs still hurt, but not a tenth as much. My shoulders no longer hurt at all. I'm calling it a success. :thumbsup: It took about 6 weeks to notice the effect, so if you try it, get a 2 or 3 month supply. Puritan's Pride usually can beat even Walmart's prices. - Granny:hippy:

ps. Hi there, X! :)

[xcrispi]

Here's the story, My brother's friends, Dick and Susie, told David, my bro, to try this stuff. "It really help with the aches and pains!", they said. David, being a carpenter, had aching hands. He tried it. Three months later, his hands (and his bad knees) had stopped hurting. So he gave me, his older sis, a call. "Ya gotta try this stuff! I'm sending you a $20, so you can try it." I tried it. My thumbs still hurt, but not a tenth as much. My shoulders no longer hurt at all. I'm calling it a success. :thumbsup: It took about 6 weeks to notice the effect, so if you try it, get a 2 or 3 month supply. Puritan's Pride usually can beat even Walmart's prices. - Granny:hippy:

ps. Hi there, X! :)

Hey Granny :hippy: Hope you and yours are doing well esp. w/ all the heat out by you . :(

I second Puritans Pride :thumbsup: How can you lose w/ buy 1 get 2 free ? I did research 1st Granny , theres like 3 dif forms of gloc. and I guess sulfate is the most easily absorbed in our systems . Our lil bully dog had a knee replaced and the vet recomended gloc. but wanted a million dollars for it LOL . Found Puritans Pride and it's cheap , so I started taking it too :D . It helps a great deal w/ joint pain .
Peace Granny
Crispi :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

Another good one if you can stand the taste....perna mussel. Also MSM (I'll have to go look that one up) all are used very commonly for arthritis in veterinary medicine.

[tappz]

hey sorry to hear about what youve went thought but you seem to have a very positive attitude witch is always good im from michigan to what partt are you from?