What I realize while high

[Guest]

Im not saying entheogens cant help us, im just saying right now they cant, and so should not be used in society. This is rough, raw and unedited. In terms of philosophy it is probably logically inconsistent and not valid. Thats fine I dont care.

So I wrote this while toking a bowl thinking about various experiences

Aug 7, 06
"If we cant handle living outside this world, on this Earth, how can we expect to venture to these inner worlds in a beneficial way? How can we expect to journey these inner worlds and places in such a way as to prove to be beneficial to Mankind? There are those who argue the use of entheogens is necessary to propel Mankind through evolution. I dont see how this is so.

It is my belief that Mankind is to immature to venture 'inside.' How can it be mature enough to do such a Trip when it cant even handle living on this Earth as it is?

We're killing this outer world (we're still killing each other), this world which sustains us. Look at the damage we have inflicted on the environment. Imagine the damage we'd inflict on our inner worlds if we went there regularly? Instead of the break down of ecoystems we'd have the break down of consciousness all together.

There are those that argue that entheogens and other psychoactives can have a beneficial role in society. I dont refute this, but only say that that time has not come, that Mankind is still in diapers and can not handle the inner world, because this outer world is still to fucked up.

Mankind is aware of this on some level and so covers it up by saying these 'drugs' are immoral, dangerous and degenerative, the truth is, is that Mankind just doesnt know how to handle them, like every thing else in life. Its almost kind of pathetic, other civilizations who were 'primitive' did not seem to have much a problem, just us.

These tools could help us, but not right now. Mankind is still wearing diapers and having a tempertantrum."


Your thoughts are welcome, tell me them.

[da5mikeY]

that's probably the most egotistical thing I have ever read in my life...and I like how you put it in quotes as if it will be put on one of those motivational posters

[Captain Hanks]

good read, its a puzzle ill admit

[Guest]

egotistical in what way?

Are you going to tell me that we're not destroying this environment? We're not polluting this Earth? Hell we pollute the moon and outer space?
Are you going to tell me than Mankind is an exemplary being of the universe?


Im not saying some people cant venture to these 'inner worlds' there are certaintly those who can, no doubt about that. Some can bodly trip their brains out have a blast learn and whatever, some kind trip their brains out and go crazy. Thats not my point though.

But for these 'drugs' to be used in society like every fucking Tim Leary wannabe preach about wont work. Im tired of Tim Leary wannabes walking around saying "acid could be used in society to help us" "mescaline is a spiritual tool that kind bring the divine holy spiritual light to all of us spirital beings" and all that other fluffly bullshit.

Our society is rather Puritan, and prolly should be due to its behavior.

I hate to sound like a pessimist, if people think I just sit around and am anti social, thats far from the truth.

THe world is fucked up. As a species we are fucked up.


You cant deny this.

[Guest]

Fucking

We cant even handle solving issues like Gay Marriage.

How can we expect to handle issues that only 'drugs' seem to shed light on during a trip? When these issues seem to be much more meaningful and important?


I dont hate life, it sounds like I do but whatever

I just find it interesting:

All these Tim Leary idealists walking around always saying to legalize shit and how 'drugs' can be used with society in a beneficial way- straight out of the fucking New Age section from a book store.

We as a species cant fucking decide if the Greenhouse Effect is a cause of pollution or just a natural occurence, so while we bitch and bicker about it (Congress rather) the problem gets worse.

But yet, we're ready to take some of those ontological issues inside ourselves, with a couple of hits of Cid or a few grams of mushrooms.

Dunno,

Some constructive criticism is welcome, I'd like someone to address this, I may change my mind, may not. Just say its 'egotistical' is well.. useless for discussion.

[Guest]

Fuck Tim Leary, Fuck Aldous Huxley, and the rest of them.

Not in these times, maybe in near future or the distant future we can sit around in a classroom and Trip and Learn and all that bullshit but not in these times.

Then again, someone is bound to ask:

Why not? Why not in these times?

Thats a good questions maybe I'll look at that angle

[Guest]

I wont lie, I used to be one of those wannabe Tim Leary followers, typical teenager trying to relive an era I was never a part of. I used to think that society could use these 'drugs' in such a way to help us, in classrooms etc etc.

[the joint meister]

weed shrooms those r they only illegal drugs i need

[Guitarhooligan]

Bleh...way too pretentious, IMO.

[Guitarhooligan]

And also, the implication that the human race could have any lasting effect on the Earth's overall well being is extremely conceited in my opinion. The Earth has been here for over four billion years. That number is very hard to grasp for a human mind. That's about 51,948,052 average lifetimes. We, as a society, have been here for about 5,000 years. That's the blink of an eye to the earth...not even that, actually. To think that we could 'destroy' the Earth, as we so often put it, is ridiculous.

Sure, we can wipe ourselves out, but no lasting damage will be done. The Earth will replenish and revitalize itself, just as it always has.

</George Carlin>

Sorry for the double post, and the rant... :-)

[Guest]

I couldnt agree with you more.

But we are destroying the world we live in, in such a rate that we'll destroy the world which sustains us

[Guest]

pretentious? please elaborate what you mean

I find this view point of equal importance when considering and joshing around ideas of Utopian Entheogen-land, so many people always talking about a world where 'these tools are used' hell look at Erowid and the mission statement.

People always demanding attention to the possibility that 'drugs' can help civilization. I think this is as equally important, and not an exaggeration or a way to sound smart.


There is a lot wrong and much which can be debated in what was written I'd like to analyze it.

You said the Earth will prevail, it certaintly will. How does that relate to whether or not Mankind is 'mature' 'responsible' enough to use entheogens in every day life?

You're certaintly right Life will adapt and move on, just as it always has. That doesnt mean that we will, and that certaintly doesnt mean that Mankind is capable of using entheogens in a productive manner

[daima]

I wont lie, I used to be one of those wannabe Tim Leary followers, typical teenager trying to relive an era I was never a part of. I used to think that society could use these 'drugs' in such a way to help us, in classrooms etc etc.

dont follow any person
be your own savior
if you dont think drugs are helful to you, then dont use them.
perhaps Tims words and ideas arent for you?
does that mean that others cant grow and learn from them?
you seemed to unsuspectly learned from them.
you learned they werent for you.
would you of learned that if you didnt look into it?
TIME?
any place is within walking distance..., if you have the, TIME
The only time there really is, is now.
You can start to change right now.
you can start to enjoy yourself, right now.
Remember this...
You dont have to wait.
WE are all...
learners
doers
and, teachers.

Religion was invented/evolved, through the use of Entheogens.
Dont confuse that with man.
Religion is one talking to, God
God talking to man is, psychosis

We as a species? we are also individuals. Blanket statements serve no one, and they trick those who make them into a false sense of "righteousness"

An old Native American Proverb goes like this...
"How clever of the white man...
he can make that which is wrong, seem right, and that which is right, seem wrong"

Ah, yes...., the mouse dreams dreams that would terrify the cat. Never stop dreaming, and never rely on the dreams of another to be your path.

WE CANT handle gay marriage? i can. i know millions who can. Dont confuse power, with, will.

The Mescaline ? used by native americans in cerimonial rituals. Very Helpful.
Dont allow mans use of things for recreation paint a portrait of how things are, for you.

The world is what it is, and just about what it always has been.
very violent
very dangerous
very unfair.

Drugs change the perception of man when man fails to change himself. Perhaps thats what Tim was addressing? Perhaps he thought(and i agree) that if we arent capable of inner change, and change is needed in order for mankind to survive, then drugs that promote said change should be researched.
I know many people who dont do drugs and think change can only come through acts of violence and the killing of others. I disagree with that.
Our bodies and minds are made-up of drugs, chemicals, etc etc.
Killing others is a learned behavior.
violence is a learned behavior
greed is a learned behavior
We arent born into these behaviors, we learned them from others.:confused:

Humans have alway learned from, and relied on, drugs, plants, and one-another. There is no "set time" for us to behave human. The time is NOW, just like the time was NOW for Leary and others.

Dont be led off a cliff. Dont be "led" anywhere's.

It is as natural for humans to use plants as it is for us to breathe.
Dont become unhuman.
Do some humans pollute? yep. Some more than others. Are there humans that dont pollute? define pollution for me.
There are humans on this earth who have never thrown paper on the ground, never used fossil fuels, never used lightbulbs.
All humans arent alike. Teach yourself how you want to be.

That being said.....
some humans are worse caretakers of the planet than others are.:D

dai*ma
some humans aint human
some people aint kind
you open up their hearts
and here's what you'll find
a few frozen pizza's
some icecubes with hair
a broken popsicle
you dont want to go there;)

[NextLineIsMine]

Ive had some extremely intense trips yet most people I know are suprised that ive dropped so much acid and seem so very normal. I just feel more intune and myself than ever whereas many kids I know turn into preaching evangelists and try to "wake everyone up". Trip for yourself

[Guest]

daima

that is awesome

despite those words

plenty of people can handle gay marriage on its own, but as a society it cant. this evident turn on the news, again.

plenty of people can learn from Trips, but as a society it cant. this is evident, turn on the news, again.

I guess people think that Im talking about both the individual and the collective whole. Im specifically talking about the collective whole of Mankind as one. Im not talking about individuals but this thing called Mankind.

I agree with you. There all kinds of people out there yadada ya but, again, we're still not addressing the problem:

Whether or not 'drugs' will propel Mankind in a beneficial and positive direction, or if they will set Mankind back.


I suppose thats what Im driving at, and Im obviously saying it would pull man back.

Back in terms of evolution, back in terms of quality of living, back in terms of anything negative. Though there will always be some kind of positive, thats given.

[Polymirize]

We're killing this outer world (we're still killing each other), this world which sustains us. Look at the damage we have inflicted on the environment. Imagine the damage we'd inflict on our inner worlds if we went there regularly? Instead of the break down of ecoystems we'd have the break down of consciousness all together.


I'd like to think that being more in touch with consciousness would actually improve a great deal. Imagine if you will a world where at the age of 16 or so, every child went through some kind of ritual, a reconstruction of reality on their own terms, in order to mark their ascension to adulthood. What a revolutionary concept huh?

Yes, I know, it's not the world that most of us live in now. But I don't think mindless complience will be a source of change. Sometimes when you open to something you can't close it out ever again.

What i can only point to personal experience for (well, and my circle of friends) is the increasing closeness with the surrounding world and people in it that entheogens allow me to experience at times. Inter-being. Perhaps your own experiences have been different?

Change is coming, one way or the other. Perhaps mankind just needs more explorers who are willing to go ahead and try to understand the new worlds.

Maybe evolution will be decided by choice, and there's no reason why all humans have to evolve along the same path.

I'm not sure I even understand your point of view. I can't think of a negative influence on society brought about by the use of psychedelics, as opposed to consumerism, fundamentalism or corporate exploitation... All of which have built severe walls between themselves and the use of entheogens.

Here's the crime: the "recreational" use of entheogens, and the bad trips that occur when people out for a good time encounter something dark and hidden inside themselves that they had managed to ignore till then. Instead of learning, they recoil; bad trip man... Don't want to do that again. Don't want to face down any demons. Don't want to grow as an individual or evolve. These are the members of society who will have to be lead, after safe routes have been established by intrepid psychonauts who voyage into the depths.

anyway, those are some thoughts.

[Guest]

Yes, I know, it's not the world that most of us live in now. But I don't think mindless complience will be a source of change. Sometimes when you open to something you can't close it out ever again.

^some good words there


some good thoughts you provide.


Would a society who used 'drugs' in a reponsible manner be able to maintain./... tough to pose this question.

would the society remain 'sane' ? Or would it appear to be 'sane' and then start to collapse?

I ask this because of all the inner turmoil that could rise to the surface and all that sort of thing.

Im incredibibly vague I know.

[Polymirize]

Would a society who used 'drugs' in a reponsible manner be able to maintain./... tough to pose this question.

would the society remain 'sane' ? Or would it appear to be 'sane' and then start to collapse?

I ask this because of all the inner turmoil that could rise to the surface and all that sort of thing.

Im incredibibly vague I know.

Well, speaking in the strictly historical sense, those societies have already existed. They've maintained themselves for fairly long periods of time. Entire civilizations even. Sane? That's a subjective question isn't it? As if an insane society was doomed to collapse. Perhaps it is. It seems our record for the length of a society is about 700 years. Maybe a little more. Certainly not possible in more modern times when change seems accellerated. Of course, it would be insane of a culture to resist the inevitable changes. Which is probably why we adopt new paradigms. What defines the death and birth of a society anyway?

I think resistance to that essential change has given rise to more inner turmoil within societies than a simple substance ever could. For the most part, I think I'd feel safe saying that drugs don't cause problems, they just highlight them and make them more apparent. Both personally and socially.

[durban poison]

i think ur just trying to come off as an individual but i could be wrong and that shit ur talking about sounds pretty dumb but we smoke pot.....i for one havent taken acid...dont plan on it or mescaline and i doubt many other members have.

[pixel]

i wouldn't be so sure about that durban. and before you make decisions about the rest of the cannabis boards community, be around for more than a week.

[mojoke]

go hug a tree. bitch.

[Damon32]

I'm gonna have to blaze one and come back to this thread and read it over.

[dboy]

The main problem I see in the original post is the assumption that "enlightenment for the masses" is possible. Mental exploration and personal transformation are "edge" experiences that most people are not mentally prepared for. Only a small part of Western culture has moved beyond monotheism while the majority think basically the same thoughts as 17th Century man (god's, devils, souls, etc). While the human population remains barbaric and primitive (people such as George W Bush being the American example), there are small tribes of people that are attemping to move beyond these things. Check out the work of Ken Wilber as an example. I believe that certain individuals CAN advance mentally, but don't expect the world to appreciate, accept, or understand your achievements. Students and gurus will always be suspect, no matter what tools they use...cannabis, meditation, fasting, etc. It's ALL edge experience, and therefore threatening to the political and social establishment.

Dboy


Dboy

[Markass]

Very good. I agree..

[gutterfunk]

Folks up near the top were blurring the line between our "society" and the human race. There IS a difference, there are still people that exist outside of the society we exist in. I don't think that we can make full decisions about what we as a society can handle or not. The use of drugs with spiritual intent may not be accepted by society, but that does not mean it does not exist within our society. Does something being accepted by society mean that the people in power endorse it? In the case of gay marriage, I find that dispite many people within our country being for it, the folks in power disagree, and thats what really matters.
fyi, I'm a bit under the influence of mind altering substances, so i apologize for any fuckups or destinationless thought trains
love, me

[manshowboy487]

And also, the implication that the human race could have any lasting effect on the Earth's overall well being is extremely conceited in my opinion. The Earth has been here for over four billion years. That number is very hard to grasp for a human mind. That's about 51,948,052 average lifetimes. We, as a society, have been here for about 5,000 years. That's the blink of an eye to the earth...not even that, actually. To think that we could 'destroy' the Earth, as we so often put it, is ridiculous.

Sure, we can wipe ourselves out, but no lasting damage will be done. The Earth will replenish and revitalize itself, just as it always has.

</George Carlin>

Sorry for the double post, and the rant... :-)


We are polluting the earth and the natural resources will run out. you are correct when saying that the earth has been around for four billion years. but it has never had a civilization taht is advanced enough and dumb enough to pollute and kill it. not until recently.

[trippen420]

every word u said i agree with

[da5mikeY]

go hug a tree. bitch.

hahahha I literally laughed out loud when I read that...the period between tree. and bitch. really makes that