I need advice

[Marlboroman]

OK this isnt about sex, but im putting this here anyway.

I am currently going thru a divorce.

My wife has stated that if i give her custody she will waive child support.

This is important because of where we live, I am not native to the area and I have no family other than my children in the area. I cannot move into my parents basement, I have no relatives here at all.

My wife makes a hefty salary approx 120% more than me. For a while now ive been a stay at home dad, this was done because my job is easy to restart, her career would take time to develope back to the point she is right now.

Where we live is incredibly expensive to live, at my rate of pay, I would have enough to survive, but not live.

When we get into the mediators office, she now claims she wants child support, and that she wants me to pay on a weekly basis.

We are trying to negotiate to a settlement that I will pay child support when I make (x) a year, and when I do it will go into a college fund for the children.

The problem I have is that this person is a liar, she is willing to lie, cheat, steal, as long as she gets what she wants.

I fully expect that even if i accept that bargain, she will have me in court asking for my money, it would only be a matter of time. After all, she has already lied in this process by saying she would waive child support, then when I agree to give her custody she now wants support.

I want to make it clear that this person does not need my money, she makes more than enough, like I said 120% more than I do, me giveing her anything would literally test my survival. its that expensive to live here. I think she just hates me for interupting her story.

Ive been told that if anyone has a case to get custody of the kids its me, but it will finacially break the both of us and take 3-4 years to fight out.

So faced with this what would ya do?

If ya need more info just ask.

Peace.

[Bong30]

So sorry to hear of this MM..... politics is one thing, life is another.

Let me think about it today at work.... ill get back to you.

My best to you
B30

She wont get full custody...thats for dam sure.....MM

Joint most likely........


What do you want?

[cannabis campbell]

Basically GET HER TO PUT IT DOWN IN WRITING in a legal document!

[friendowl]

put antifreeze in her gatorade bottle

[Bong30]

MM,

My daughter whom is 6, i have been her dad since she was 1. So she is my step daughter, but we are going through a custody battle with the other family.

went to mediation twice......

last time they were escourted out yelling "well see you in court"

We had to pony up 2 grand for a lawyer.............


You want joint custody and you want to show the judge who makes the money, like you said 120% and she needs to pay YOU alimony......Take that.

MM judges are not stupid they will see through her bull shit...........

1st thing
get a lawyer....... barrow money from parent put on a credit card. Kids are worth it. ALSO SEE IF SHE WILL PAY YOUR LEAGAL EXSPENSES. remember she makes the money. Go for it all and see where the chips fall. She would do it to you...im sure

[Bong30]

put antifreeze in her gatorade bottle
maybe plan B, friend

[Marlboroman]

MM,

My daughter whom is 6, i have been her dad since she was 1. So she is my step daughter, but we are going through a custody battle with the other family.

went to mediation twice......

last time they were escourted out yelling "well see you in court"

We had to pony up 2 grand for a lawyer.............


You want joint custody and you want to show the judge who makes the money, like you said 120% and she needs to pay YOU alimony......Take that.

MM judges are not stupid they will see through her bull shit...........

1st thing
get a lawyer....... barrow money from parent put on a credit card. Kids are worth it. ALSO SEE IF SHE WILL PAY YOUR LEAGAL EXSPENSES. remember she makes the money. Go for it all and see where the chips fall. She would do it to you...im sure

Ya, that is how she would have handled it.

But that isnt me, altho im willing to go there, id like to see if there can be a middle ground before i go toe to toe with her.

A custody battle will run us 175-200 grand each. thats a pretty solid number comeing from 3 different lawyers.

I have been told that worst case senario, I would get joint custody with her being primary care provider, and that she would have to pay me maintenance for a set number of years. But that whoever has primary care gets child support, and the judge has no choice but to go by the NYS guidelines. Which would take 31% of my adjusted net gross. thats my yearly pay minus half what i pay in taxes.

But in the end, if im told to pay her support, I wont be able to live anywhere near my kids. More than likely ill be forced to move to Penn, just to survive, New Jersey isnt much better as far as expensises go.

Going to war is something I am prepared to do, but I want to give this way a chance first.

What Im thinking of doing is going to the next mediation and call her out on the agreement made to waive support if she has custody, and to me being the primary care provider, means she has custody. If she lies and says she never made that agreement, it will be off to war I think..

If she claims the agreement and then says well im changing my mind then ill ask her under waht circumstances is she will to waive support, and then ill judge whether or not to declare war.

If I have to pay her support it means me liveing in poverty, I can go back to Texas and live in poverty with my family, I dont need or want to do it on Long Island.

So if me paying support is what she wants, then I'll take us all into poverty.

[Marlboroman]

ALSO SEE IF SHE WILL PAY YOUR LEAGAL EXSPENSES.

Yes she would, thats already been explained to her by several different lawyers and mediators.

But the only place for her to get the money would be the equity in the house. which would be my money too. She doent have the legs to pay for both lawyers or even one for herself, she needs to be more reasonable.

[nitemarehippiegirl]

You've got to figure out what the best situation is for your kids, my first instinct is to say fight it and try to win custody, but if that is going to take such a long time then maybe it's not really the best situation to put them into.
Whatever happens, always put their needs first, they deserve as much!

I'm sorry that you have to be going through this, my heart goes out to you~ hugs : )

[Oblio]

DUDE...you have a child and you don't want to help support it...thats sad. Besides in the u.s.a. the custodial parent does not say how much you owe. THE COURT DOES! NOW...on another note, When you file for divorce the state gets custody of your child and "AWARDS" custody normally to one of you. AT any given time they can revock custody. If you go in front of a judge and say she gets custody if you don't have to pay...that judge will think you are a total loser as a parent hendering any appearance you have in that court room ever again.

[Oblio]

just sign away your parental rights. I reread your post and it is all about "you". "You" living in poverty. "You" having to move back to texas.

"YOU" have to be a good father and role model. Get your spine straight! If she makes more money then ask for alimony. If you are talking to lawyers that are going to cost you 200k....that's absurd. I think "you" need to start now by giving up any extras in your life and save money. Cigs, Dope, Movies, Cd's, and everything else that is not needed to survive. "You" can not wait 3 to 4 years to be a responsible parent.

Do not be weak. You have a choice now that will be a judge of your character for the rest of your life.

[birdgirl73]

I hope you can keep trying to work with that mediator. The whole situation is troubling to me. There's got to be a way to settle on something you can both live with that will allow you to share custody and also at least nonminally support the kids financially without having to move away from them to do so.

Even though I know it's hard for you to contemplate, I think it's emotionally important for the kids to know you willingly contributed to their support. They're going through enough turmoil with divorcing parents as it is. Whatever you can work out, get it put firmly in writing so she can't weasel out of an agreed arrangement.

Divorce is so hard on everyone, especially when kids are involved, and I had no idea a custody battle was so pricey these days. In custody-contested divorces (and most others, too) someone's always the loser financially. At least that's what they taught us in family law. The petitioner has an advantage, and if that person is also the one who makes the most money, well, it's a greater advantage.

This may be a stupid question, but is there any hope that you could make an arrangement to postpone the divorce for a while? Not in order to reconcile as much as to coast for a while in a situation that'll allow you both fair access to the kids and let you continue being the stay-at-home dad? Or are things already too far gone and angry for that?

[LordSmaug]

which parent they want to stay with should be the choice of the children. Not either of the parents. It sounds like you're playing more of a maternal role in the parenting at any rate. And since she makes more money than you do it would make sense that you got the kids plus child support from her. If you never brought in money while you where married there's no reason she needs your money after your divorced.

[MsStrawberrySwisher]

I doubt they have you pay child support if she makes 120% more than you. It's impossible. I have so many friends and co-workers going through the same thing, so best believe you are not alone. Make sure you keep all receipts, documents and anything related to you and your child together.

Once I had a friend who divorced from his wife, but he still picked his daugther up and bought her essentials (clothes, school stuff, food). Why this chick take him to court and told the judge he never does anything for her. When the court asked him for receipts, he couldn't produce them. He almost lost his job cuz the judge sentenced him to jail for child support. So make sure your i's are dotted, T's are crossed and keep praying.

[Marlboroman]

just sign away your parental rights. I reread your post and it is all about "you". "You" living in poverty. "You" having to move back to texas.

"YOU" have to be a good father and role model. Get your spine straight! If she makes more money then ask for alimony. If you are talking to lawyers that are going to cost you 200k....that's absurd. I think "you" need to start now by giving up any extras in your life and save money. Cigs, Dope, Movies, Cd's, and everything else that is not needed to survive. "You" can not wait 3 to 4 years to be a responsible parent.

Do not be weak. You have a choice now that will be a judge of your character for the rest of your life.

OK, you need to stop being so judgemental, you dont even have your facts straight for one thing.

All of the things ive said that differ from the regular divorce are obtainable in mediation.

Second, why ask for alimony then turn around and pay it back in support?

That make any sense to you?

Next, just being here for my children is suppoprt, Ill say it again, I am not from this area, If i cannot survive, or if I can only survive in the ghetto, how much of a role model am I being for my children?

How will my children see me when I live on a block with gangbangers and crack houses?

Because let me tell you, thats whats in the neighborhoods that I would be in should I have to pay support. Ya, so that dont make sense to you, oh well, thats not really my issue. An apartment here runs equally expensive as houseing, that dont make sense to you?, again not my issue.

Unless you have personal experience with these matters, id suggest you take your weakness coments and pack them. This is extremely difficult thing to go thru, the threat of being forced away from my children is much harder of an issue than my father passing away.

Your entire 2 posts(lifetime) say you have no idea what it is your talking about.

Take your judgemental ass back to reading posts, and dont open your mouth till you have something constructive to say.

[Marlboroman]

I hope you can keep trying to work with that mediator. The whole situation is troubling to me. There's got to be a way to settle on something you can both live with that will allow you to share custody and also at least nonminally support the kids financially without having to move away from them to do so.

Even though I know it's hard for you to contemplate, I think it's emotionally important for the kids to know you willingly contributed to their support. They're going through enough turmoil with divorcing parents as it is. Whatever you can work out, get it put firmly in writing so she can't weasel out of an agreed arrangement.

Divorce is so hard on everyone, especially when kids are involved, and I had no idea a custody battle was so pricey these days. In custody-contested divorces (and most others, too) someone's always the loser financially. At least that's what they taught us in family law. The petitioner has an advantage, and if that person is also the one who makes the most money, well, it's a greater advantage.

This may be a stupid question, but is there any hope that you could make an arrangement to postpone the divorce for a while? Not in order to reconcile as much as to coast for a while in a situation that'll allow you both fair access to the kids and let you continue being the stay-at-home dad? Or are things already too far gone and angry for that?

I think staying with mediation is best for us too. And I plan to keep working it this way till I have no other options.

In the matter of paying nominal amount of support. If its such a small amount why does it need to be paid is my question?
Is it just, "well hes paying what he can pay"? Is that the thiking here?
Because to be honest, it seems a much better use of the money to then use it to be able to take my kids to six flags, or on vacation somewhere, to be a better role model to use Oblio's words.

Bottom line is she doesnt need my money, and in the past, said she would give a waiver because she doesnt need it.

Your right, a court divorce would finacially wreck us both, she would be responsible for my court costs tho, but that doesnt take away that in the end its still my money as well.

I dont want to postpone it, its been years in the makeing, its taken me 2 years to get her, a CPA to make a budget for this family.

Not that I havent tried to make one, but she would never follow one, I would call cable and cancel extras, she would call and order other extras. Things like that riddle this relationship. As far as access, I plan to have joint custody, and if I had it my way that would live with me 50% of the time, I love my kids very much, I am now and always will be a big part of their lives, this is why its very important for me to be able to not only survive here but to be able to live.

Peace BG:)

[Pipe Dreams]

Hmm. I would get it all LEGALLY documented and written down. I wouldnt say a damn word to her without my lawyer present. On top of that, I would fight the SHIT out of her in court. If anything, just keep her in there to waste her money(can you do that in divorce court?) Basically, just make sure everything is documented while youre talking to her.

Either that or shoot her.

[birdgirl73]

Peace to you, too, Marlboro. I'm so sorry you're having to go through that. I know it's awful on everyone involved. I'm hope you'll keep working hard to make the kids the top priority. I'm glad you're determined to be there for them and involved in their lives. Good luck!

[Oblio]

Glad you opened this up for my next comments. Yes I am a custodial father of 3 great kids. (This is why my post may have been harsh) I have fought tooth and nail for them for almost 16 yrs. I had to drive a shitty car, live in a not so good neighborhood, wear the same shoes till soles wore out, sometime not eat so there would be leftovers for their next meal. I also worked 1 full time job and 2 part time jobs to make ends meet. The mother of my daughter has only paid 20 dollars in child support in the last 12 yrs. Taking her to court will cost me more in lawyer fees than what she owes. The deck is stack against fathers, but it is getting better. Your comments back to me did just what I wanted them too...You are taking a stand! Move away from where you are if your income can not support a decent lifestyle there, do not move into a ghetto. You do not have to have money to be happy...it helps but it henders also in other ways.

As for not having many post...i had all my prior post removed the other day. Saying I have no idea what i am talking about since i only have 2 post is absurd. That means the judge you will be in front knows even less than me since he was ZERO post here????

IF your wife knows you are a member here then you should think about every post you have made...you might want to ask a mod to remove them also. This could be used against you in court. If the Judge is anti-drug it could hurt you badly. If you smoke or do other drugs then get cleaned up long enough to at least apply for a job that requires a drug test (even if you do not want the job). If she brings up drugs..you can then submit the documents of your clean drug test. I personally would stay clean till after all court battles are over. If you both smoke then your lawyer could ask for both of you to be tested. Your lawyer could have 2 drug testing kits with him and ask for testing on the spot. IF she refuses the judge might wiegh this very heavily.

Have you sought out support groups in your area? Applied for any aid in helping you get an education in a promising job field?

On a constructive note: Start a journal keeping track of every penny you spend. After a few months you can look it over to see what you could live without. It worked for me. Start liquidating your assets to cash. Anything that your wife won't let you sale that still has payments owed can be used to show the judge. He could be inclined to make her take over the payments since it was her choice alone to keep those items. Do not fight with her over small stuff! Pick your battles that are important to you in the long run. Be the one to try and seek marriage counsuling, if she refuses this will show that you are the only one trying to do what's best for the family. From now till "your day in court" you need all the evidence you can get that you are the one with the best interest of the families well being.

DOCUMENT EVERYTHING! I MEAN EVERYTHING! Voice recording of arguements between you can show how her temper, actions or behavior is anti-productive for the stability of raising kids. Do not get a Holier than tho attitude. That will be counter productive.

here is a link to support group of single dads http://www.scfn.org/
Google for keywords in your area. You will find many groups. It could be hard to get custody. But if you really think your children would be better off with you and not her...then you have too. You could end up with joint custody..thats better than visitation. Once you contact a support group you could possibly meet other men that could help you land a better job, find a lawyer who will let you make payments or even waive some of his fees. Research what Judge you will go infront of. This can give you an idea of how many times he or she has giving custody to the fathers. If the Judge is Father friendly..then find a Lawyer than has a great track record with that judge in similar cases.

The road you are getting ready to travel is not an easy one. It will be hard on your whole family. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link...do not let that link be you!

Your post sound like you are educated enough to be more than a min. wage job holder. But sometimes you will have to do shitty jobs to get those few extra dollars to buy those items your kids will need. Do not forget to see if your income qualifes you for any state assistance. I have seen in several states that even the income from a teacher or police officer is low enough to recieve help.

I wish you the best of luck...Divorce and Custody is always ugly and bitter unless both people are level headed or one gives up to easy.

Just ponder this idea..."would the children be better off with me or her?" If you answer is "YOU" than you have to do everything to proof this and make it happen. If you think it might be her, then you need to put all your support behind her and eat crow when needed. I never once yelled or said a single bad thing about my kids mom to them or in front of them. THEY will remember this. As they get older they will see how much you loved them to take crap off her and that only reason you did this was because you love them. Every ugly word you say about her infront of them will be just one more small wedge between you and your children. NEVER forget they love her too (unless she has destroyed that)

on a final note, I apologize if I upset you on 2 prior post. The only goal was to get you thinking enuff to say..."I am a good father dammit and she won't belittle or make me think otherwise"

Good luck

[LIP]

Basically GET HER TO PUT IT DOWN IN WRITING in a legal document!

Good point, she cant break a legal contract. If she does than your the one calling the shots [Once you've sued her]

[Marlboroman]

Oblio, Very sound and constructive advice. Thank You.

Hopefully, it will never come to any of that, this will never have a day in court if we are both reasonable.

I believe I will take allot of your advice, as for who could support them better, the answer is her.

As for who they would be better off with, well thats a toss up. neither of us are abusive, addicts, or alcholics. We just dont get along, nor am I attracted to her physically, mentally, or spiritualy.

We DO NOT have argeuments, I personally refuse to have any conversation with her about this divorce outside of a therapists or mediators office, any discussion we have had to this poiint has been mojnitored by a proffesional.

I really do believe we are both working in the childrens best interests, except when the issue of me paying support is on the table. Logically it doesnt make sense to have me pay when she makes the percentage above me she does. Maybe its just a logic thing on my part, but it just doesnt seem to make sense.

She does know im a member here, altho she does not know my screen name, but asking a mod to delete is a good idea.

Peace Oblio, and sorry for the defensive stance. I try to stay fluid, but dont always manage it.

[Oblio]

No problem...just make sure you have a paper trail of each payment you make to her or a reciept showing you did. MAKE sure it is in HER handwriting. She can then not say you missed payments and have you thrown in jail. If she claims you missed a payment the state can take over. This means you send payment to them and they forward it to her. NO DEAL you to make can supercied a court order.

In texas all payments go through the state and the charge 5 dollars each. This is a HUGE revenue builder for them. You state may have similar.

If you get a gut feeling the mediator is favoring her..then becareful.

As for some advice from others...in some states the child can make a choice which parent they want to stay with. This on the norm is 14 to 15 yrs of age or higher. Some maybe be lower, i don't know. In most cases children want to stay with the parent who lets them get away with the most. Do not let your kids pit you two against each other...you will know if this is happening.
"Mom grounds me when i make a D, i want to go live with dad"
"Dad make me do dishes and mow the yard, I want to move in with mom"

You two also need to think which of you live in the better school district...this is very important. If your kids are good at sports, which school might they be able to make first string. Getting them into a college with scholarships for anything they excel in could be far more than the total of child support you could ever pay.

Always think of the big picture ! Now-a-days it is very hard to get any job that allows for a comfortable living without some type of degree. Every parent should want their kids to have a better life then they did.

Some states can mandate you pay CS for 4 yrs past high school graduation if they are attending college. BEFORE signing anything from a mediator..ask to take the paperwork home to read it over in peace and quiet. They should not object unless they fear you catching a certian wording. This can give you a chance to have legal counsel or a knowledgable person read it over. Once you sign anything it is a done deal and will take a lot to get it changed.

[Marlboroman]

No problem...just make sure you have a paper trail of each payment you make to her or a reciept showing you did. MAKE sure it is in HER handwriting. She can then not say you missed payments and have you thrown in jail. If she claims you missed a payment the state can take over. This means you send payment to them and they forward it to her. NO DEAL you to make can supercied a court order.

Yes this is true, this worries me allot, seeing that she has lied to me in the past, I fully expect her to come at me at a later date wanting more.

In texas all payments go through the state and the charge 5 dollars each. This is a HUGE revenue builder for them. You state may have similar.

It doesnt cost anything, but I have had a close friend go this route, it didnt work out for her tho, he had his boss pay him off the books whenever she was being wicked about things and messed with her money. Then he would say, hey what can I tell ya, I had to take a week off, boss told me to stay home, if you would get that deduction off, I would be able to pay you with a check.

If you get a gut feeling the mediator is favoring her..then becareful. I dont get this feeling, what I do see is that they try very hard to get people to agree, not favoring one or the other mind you, just seems like they arent looking out for either of us. Fair is what 2 people agree on is fair, what someone else may think is a raw deal, may seem fair to someone else.

As for some advice from others...in some states the child can make a choice which parent they want to stay with. This on the norm is 14 to 15 yrs of age or higher. Some maybe be lower, i don't know. In most cases children want to stay with the parent who lets them get away with the most. Do not let your kids pit you two against each other...you will know if this is happening.
"Mom grounds me when i make a D, i want to go live with dad"
"Dad make me do dishes and mow the yard, I want to move in with mom"

Here its 12 years old if the judge or childrens advocate deems them capable, hopefully, this stuff wont be needed.

You two also need to think which of you live in the better school district...this is very important. If your kids are good at sports, which school might they be able to make first string. Getting them into a college with scholarships for anything they excel in could be far more than the total of child support you could ever pay.

I plan on liveing in the same school district, ATM, she pays over 10k a year for them to go to a private religiuos school I am against it whole heartedly, but its a battle I cant win.

Always think of the big picture ! Now-a-days it is very hard to get any job that allows for a comfortable living without some type of degree. Every parent should want their kids to have a better life then they did.

I am in a union, and would make enough to live in a nice neighborhood, not a big house, but a nice neighborhood is very important for my kids, not even close to being as nice as the one they live in now, but one that I wont be afraid for them to play with the other kids on the block. Its a different world here, its play dates and such, nothing like where i grew up.

Some states can mandate you pay CS for 4 yrs past high school graduation if they are attending college. BEFORE signing anything from a mediator..ask to take the paperwork home to read it over in peace and quiet. They should not object unless they fear you catching a certian wording. This can give you a chance to have legal counsel or a knowledgable person read it over. Once you sign anything it is a done deal and will take a lot to get it changed.

Here you have to pay until they graduate college or get amancipated, the same friend who had his money deducted from his check is going thru this now, not only did he pay for her to go to college but he is still paying child support while she is away. This child isnt even his BTW, he married this girl after she had her, the judge ordered him to support that child. This comes into play because im not exactly sure our forth child is even mine. Ill have a DNA test before its all said and done tho..

Man you got some know how in ya, I'm glad you posted.

Peace.

[LordSmaug]

You could like.... you know, get a decent JOB and that could completely shatter the whole "poor me" attitude you have. If anyone's in poverty for more than a year it's their own fault. -I know for personal experience-

[zero2104]

if she makes more than you, than shouldnt u gain money on the divorce and she pay you for child support

and don't give up your kids man,

my parents got divorced wen i was young and my parents split custody, and i am fine

[smokeygirl]

You may not have a choice in child support. If you don't have custody of the kids, the judge automatically makes a judgement for child support. My girlfriend went through a divorce, knew her ex didn't have money and drew up papers with her lawyer and his that no child support was required but the judge dismissed that and made him pay support so she said she only required 100 dollars a month but in reality she only takes a dollar a month from him. She never bashed him in front of the kid and lets him see him all the time even though he doesn't pay supprt. She put her kids needs in front of her own. Being a child of divorced parents who fought in front of us and bashed each other, please don't do that, it really hurts the kids, having to choose, having to defend a parent. Whatever you do, put the kids first.........thanks.

[Inferius]

You may not have a choice in child support. If you don't have custody of the kids, the judge automatically makes a judgement for child support. My girlfriend went through a divorce, knew her ex didn't have money and drew up papers with her lawyer and his that no child support was required but the judge dismissed that and made him pay support so she said she only required 100 dollars a month but in reality she only takes a dollar a month from him. She never bashed him in front of the kid and lets him see him all the time even though he doesn't pay supprt. She put her kids needs in front of her own. Being a child of divorced parents who fought in front of us and bashed each other, please don't do that, it really hurts the kids, having to choose, having to defend a parent. Whatever you do, put the kids first.........thanks.

I went through the same expirience, except my mother was ruthless. She brainwashed me to tell the counselor certain things, she lied, and she never once refrained from bashing my father.
All of this can be fucking devastating on a child. For the child's sake, don't draw this out. The faster this is over, the sooner all of you can emotionally heal, and resume a more stable life, which is what a child needs most.
And yeah, get everything signed in legal documents...

[UncleChunky]

Marlboro,
I didn't read the other posts cause I've been where you are. There are attorneys that deal specifically with the father and know how to protect your right and make sure that you dont get screwed. As far as how much you need to pay, they look at your potential earnings and that of your ex and determine what you need to pay. Do a search on the net for the fathers advocates/lawyers they will help you with atty fees as well. From here on out document EVERYTHING that takes place between you and your ex. Good luck!